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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: irjames on Monday 05 July 10 08:03 BST (UK)

Title: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: irjames on Monday 05 July 10 08:03 BST (UK)
I think I've found my g.g. grandmother, Tamar Chapman, in the 1861 census working as a servant at 20 or 21 Turner St, Mile End. The census page actually shows her as Janar). Unfortunately it is at the start of a new page, so I do not have the details of the family she was working for. Can anyone help. As far as I can work out the reference is RG9/290 pages 114 to 122, though the page I have does not show clearly which page it is, it says 18, but may be 118.

Tried to attach the page, but couldn't work out how - I'm new here.

Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 05 July 10 08:33 BST (UK)
Hi there and Welcome to Rootschat  ;D

The family she is living with are the Hollerman's.

Henry Hollerman 32 sugar refiner b Russia
Ann wife 27 b Lincolnshire
Jemmar? P dau 6mths b London

Janor Chapman 22 servant b Lincolnshire.

Looks like she knew the wife perhaps...maybe even a rellie/sister?

Carol

Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: ElvisMole on Monday 05 July 10 11:16 BST (UK)
Hi

Ms Chapman is recorded as being a Visitor on that sheet.

:-)

Ray
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: Eyesee on Monday 05 July 10 12:30 BST (UK)
According to Pilotsearch, Thomas and Tamar CHAPMAN had a number of children baptised in Hacconby, Lincolnshire in the 1830s and 1840s. Two of these children were an Ann in 1834 and a Tamar in 1838, which would fit with being 27 and 22 in 1861.

Can't see Ann after 1861.

Ian C
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: Valda on Monday 05 July 10 13:18 BST (UK)
Hi

There is a Tamar James born Hackenby, Lincolnshire aged 54 in Yorkshire on the 1891 census RG12 3785 folio 10

In the same Yorkshire parish in 1881

RG11 4613 folio 40
Rotcher Thurlstone Yorkshire
Tamar James 43 Head Widow Laundress Haconby Mill Lincolnshire
Robert Chapman 19 Son Coalminer Middlesex East London
Thomas James 14 Son Coal miner Sheffield Yorkshire
George James 11 Son Aston? Yorkshire
William James 9 Son Dinnington Yorkshire
Sarah Jane James 6 Daughter Thurlston Yorkshire

In Aston Yorkshire in 1871 RG10 4701 folio 58 the 'wife' of John James from Runnington Nottinghamshire


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: ElvisMole on Monday 05 July 10 13:39 BST (UK)
Hi

Another search gives Tamor in boarding school in 1851
Bmd carries a Tamor registration 1838 q2 Bourn 14 274

Ray

Moderator comment: Edited for content

Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: irjames on Thursday 08 July 10 18:36 BST (UK)
Thanks to everyone.
It would explain why she was in London if her sister lived there.
Yes, it is her in Aston in 1871 and Thurlstone in 1881, 91.
She took her name from her mother, and maybe her niece has that name too.

Ian
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: Valda on Friday 09 July 10 13:28 BST (UK)
Hi

1871 census RG10 327 folio 10?0
Fever Hospital Homerton
Anne Holtermann 37 Head Nurse Widow Hacconby, Lincolnshire

Ann is with her daughter Tamar Holtermann on th 1891 census. There doesn't seem to have been a marriage to Mr. Holtermann.


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 09 July 10 16:48 BST (UK)
Good find Ian :)

1841 Census
Hacconby Mill House,
Hacconby, Lincolnshire
HO107/619/1/Hacconby

Thomas CHAPMAN, 35, Miller
Fanny, 30
Elizabeth, 8
ANN, 6
Dorothy, 5
Thomas, 4
FANNY, 3
Robert, 11mths
All born in County

CHAPMANS Christened Hacconby Parents THOMAS and TAMAR/TAMER
ELIZABETH, 26 October 1832
ANN, 04 February 1832
DOROTHY, 09 August 1835
THOMAS WYER, 29 December 1836
TAMAR, 03 June 1838
TAMAR, 26 March 1843
SARAH, 23 December 1845
SARAH, 27 January 1846

So were there 2 Thomas/Tamars having children as 2 Sarahs born close together and another Tamar in 1843?

Submitted Record IGI:
ROBERT Chapman christened 1841 Hacconby, Lincs
Parents;
THOMAS Chapman and Tamar Walton SKELTON

Extracted Record IGI;
Marriage;
Tamar WALTON/Thomas CHAPMAN 18 October 1831, Great Gonerby, Lincoln


Trish :)
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 09 July 10 17:02 BST (UK)
1851 Census
Hacconby Mill,
Hacconby, Lincs
HO107/2095/330/24
Tamer CHAPMAN, 42?, Head, Widow, Miller/Baker, born Lincs, Little Gonersby
Dorothy, 15, Daug
Robert, 14, Son
Lucy, 7, Daug
Mary, 9, Daug
William, 3, Son
All children born Hacconby
+ also in Household
Ann BAKER, 8, Neice, born Little Gonersby
Charles WELLSMAN, 25, Lodger, Unm, Grocer/draper
Robert THORPE, 22, Journeyman, Miller
William SMART, 23, Journeyman, Baker
Christopher MAUN, 19, Servant
Ann BOYER, 18, House Servant
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 09 July 10 17:11 BST (UK)
I think they may have lost the Mill by 1861 as Tamer is back to Fannythen.
I will post tomorrow as its 2.00am here.

Cheers,
Trish :)
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: irjames on Sunday 11 July 10 06:40 BST (UK)
Thanks for all the info.
The story passed down from my uncle who did all the family history is that Tamar born in 1838 was so sickly and not expected to live that she was christened immediately. She did survive and was christened again in 1843.

Ian
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: irjames on Sunday 11 July 10 07:24 BST (UK)
Other possible Holtermann tie ups to the above info are

bmd - q4 1860 in Mile End Old Town, birth of Fazar Philobena HOLTERMANN

1871 census in Hackney, Anne HOLTERMANN b. about 1834 in Lincolnshire

Plus, if Henry was actually born in Prussia, not Russia, there is an IGI record for HENRICI HOLTERMANN christened 4th Apr 1829.

Ian
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: ElvisMole on Sunday 11 July 10 08:04 BST (UK)
Hi

Just to add ....

The first Tamar and the first Sarah COULD have both died young?
The next child each time being then being named T then S.

The reason I put this forward is because none of the others were christened twice, AND other info says Tamar was "sickly".
My immediate reaction when I saw the list (without thinking) was the loss of two children.

I'll do the DeathReg legwork later (as I've added the extra possibility) b4 the footie.

Ray
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: Valda on Sunday 11 July 10 08:10 BST (UK)
Hi

St Andrew Hacconby
11th February 1846
Sarah Chapman Inf.


No other burials of infants to this family from the list of baptisms given.


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: Herts Heart on Sunday 11 July 10 08:21 BST (UK)

Well done, Valda.

R
Title: Re: Tamar Chapman, Turner St, Mile End
Post by: dunholt on Tuesday 24 January 12 12:06 GMT (UK)
Hi there.I`m new to Roots chat and not sure if the following is still of any interest to you but I am g.grandchild of Tamar Holterman nee Chapman. She married William Henry Holterman and had three children by him.I went to South Africa in 1981 and found his grave at Spreeufontaine ,a farm in the Little Karoo area.He was killed in an ambush during the Boer War in 1901.
 Of the three children,Dorothy emigrated to Canada,Elizabeth at 13 was in an institution and William( my grandfather) was sent to an orphange in the Lewisham area of London.He died in 1974 in South Wales leaving three children of his own of which one is still living.
 I believe Tamar re married a Hemmerway(?)
Tamar Chapman was a daughter of Robert Chapman of Easington near Durham if memory serves me right.
Good luck