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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: ashleighn19 on Sunday 04 July 10 07:29 BST (UK)
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Hi there,
I'm looking for any information on John Crawford, b. approx 1817 in Lanarkshire. I believe he married Janet(t) Taylor in May 1838 and had at least one child, George, b. 1843.
Any links or ideas of where i could find parish records would be fabulous.
Thanks
Ash
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just bumping it up in case someone who knows something missed it.
thanks
ash
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Hi Ash :)
Any idea of the Parish in Lanarkshire John was born in?
What his occupation was?
Where did they marry in May 1838 ?
Where was George born?
Did they all remain in Scotland (ie died there)?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hey Ambly,
Thanks for your reply.
I believe John was born in Lanark in 1817, and married in Eastwood, Lanarkshire.
George was born 1843 in Pollokshaws and they all immigrated to Australia aboard the "Macedon" in 1849.
I believe John was a weaver, and they all died in Australia.
Thanks
Ash
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Scotlands People the online pay per view site for Scottish Records has the marriage details in the OPR records
11/05/1838 CRAWFORD JOHN JANET TAYLOR EASTWOOD
SP wrongly moves Eastwood into Lanarkshire as it was within Renfrewshire.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Checking the 1841 census index for Eastwood shows only one couple John & Janet Crawford who are living in Eaglesham but they are a bit older than one might expect (both are listed as 35 which could mean 35 - 39 in the 1841)
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Hi Ash
Could this be your Crawford relations living at 40 Ferguslie in Paisley Low, Renfrewshire, in the 1841 census, given that John's occupation was weaver?
John Crawford, age 25, Cotton Handloom Weaver, born in Renfrewshire
Jean Crawford, age 20, born in Renfrewshire (Jean being a diminutive of Janet in Scotland)
John Crawford, age 3, born in Renfrewshire
Mary, age 1, born in Renfrewshire
Did your John Crawford die in Casino, NSW?
Cheers,
Rodeo
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Hey Rodeo,
I don't think so. My John died in 1892 in Riverton, South Australia.
Thankyou for trying though :)
Falkryn, I've got that marriage record from ScotlandsPeople. Thankyou so much!! any ideas where i can find who may be John's and Janet's parents, so I can find their birth details too?
Thanks
Ash
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any ideas where i can find who may be John's and Janet's parents, so I can find their birth details too?
Unfortunately not with any certainty.
Do you know the names of any other children as the naming pattern may give a clue (many families but not all, followed the traditional Scots naming pattern for their children)
One possible for Janet (bearing in mind that Jean,Jane & Janet are interchangeable) and given the Eastwood connection
Jean Taylor born 24th March 1817 parents Andrew Taylor and Margaret McLean - living in Eaglesham
BUT there is unfortunately no way to confirm this at the moment and the links are fairly tenuous.
PS what links John with Lanark ?
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Hey Falkyrn,
I am unsure about any other children, the only thing I have guiding me with this family so far is the hints I got off ancestry... Lanark could be completely wrong, but it was a starting point.
John definatly died in Australia, and I am working on getting details from his grave which perhaps may be helpful in getting an idea of when he was born, and possibly where.
If you have any ideas on where we could go from here, let me know.
Ash
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Without further details to confirm anything found it is unfortunately extremely difficult to go any further.
Although Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire are adjacent counties and in Australian terms the distances between Lanark and Eastwood are small it was not common for couples to be from such different areas although it did happen . In addition Crawford is a relatively common surname and records of that period aren't always very helpful in proving links with either siblings or indeed parents.
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Hi
The passenger list for the Macedon 1849 is the "Lanark" link....
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/macedon1849.htm
John CRAWFORD 32, Shepherd, Birthplace: Lanark, B Index 339/3
Jane (Taylor) 30
George 6
where maiden name of wife is indicated, it has been included in the given name column within ( )
(the B-index column indicates individuals who may be found in that index, with corresponding reference number for further research)
On looking at the list as a whole, it would appear "Lanark" probably means "Lanarkshire"; there are a lot of passengers born "Lanark"
It may be worthwhile following up the B-Index angle? It sounds as if he may have been an Assisted Immigrant?
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/RFW/Eastwood/index.html
EASTWOOD, parish, containing Pollockshaws And Thornliebank towns and Shawlands village, on border of Renfrewshire, near south-west side of Glasgow
Eastwood was a parish in Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire between 1892 until 1975. Before 1892 it was in Renfrewshire.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/relationships.jsp?u_id=10141655&c_id=10107260
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/
Cheers
AMBLY
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If you go to http://www.maproom.co.uk/maps/brit/scotland.jpg you can see a map of the counties as they were in 1886 which would have been very similar to the 1840 era.
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Hi guys,
I am getting hold of John's grave picture today/early next week, so I should be able to find some definate dates there, but in the meantime I was searching on familysearch and i found 4 John Crawfords born in Lanark about 1817 that may be him, is there any way of working out which one is him?
there is:
John Crawford b. 4th Nov 1816 in Barony to parents William + Elisabeth
John Crawford b. 8th June 1816 in Govan to parents David + Elizabeth Wardrop
John Crawford b. 7th Aug 1816 in Govan to parents John + Margaret Porter
John Crawford b. 12th Oct 1815 in Govan to parents Stephen + Agans Lochead
any suggestions appreciated.
also, Ambly, what do you mean the B index angle?
ash
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Hi guys,
I am getting hold of John's grave picture today/early next week, so I should be able to find some definate dates there, but in the meantime I was searching on familysearch and i found 4 John Crawfords born in Lanark about 1817 that may be him, is there any way of working out which one is him?
there is:
John Crawford b. 4th Nov 1816 in Barony to parents William + Elisabeth
John Crawford b. 8th June 1816 in Govan to parents David + Elizabeth Wardrop
John Crawford b. 7th Aug 1816 in Govan to parents John + Margaret Porter
John Crawford b. 12th Oct 1815 in Govan to parents Stephen + Agans Lochead
any suggestions appreciated.
also, Ambly, what do you mean the B index angle?
ash
Sadly at the moment there is no way to confirm any of these as your John - normally if they had followed the naming pattern and presuming that George was their first born son George would have been John's fathers name.
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Hi there,
I got a picture of John and Janet's grave the other day, and sadly it gives very little information.
it reads simply:
IN MEMORY OF:
CRAWFORD
Janet, Died 1. 1. 1891
Aged 71 years
John, Died 20. 5. 1892
Aged 77 years.
So without actually giving birth dates we know that John was born somewhere between June 1814 and May 1815, which means none of the ones i found on familysearch.
There are also no other Johns around that time. :( Any ideas where else I could look?
Ash
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Hi Ashleigh
Perhaps you should have another look at the 1841 census I cited, which you immediately dismissed. What makes you so certain they aren't your Crawfords? You now know, from the graves, that the dates fit (as well as the names and John's occupation). Ages were often rounded in the 1841 census.
If they followed the Scottish naming pattern, John Crawford's father was named John and Janet's (Jean's) mother was called Mary.
Cheers,
Rodeo
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Hey Rodeo,
I thought that the John Crawford you pointed out was not the right one as I know that my John died in Riverton SA and not Casino. Also John and Janet as far as I know only had one child, George. Unless the Mary mentioned on the census died before they immigrated to Australia?
Are you sure that theJohn you mentioned died in Casino?
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Hi Ashleigh
I merely asked if your John Crawford died in Casino in connection with an immigration record I found on Ancestry -- no relation whatsoever to the 1841 census entry.
If John and Janet were married in 1838, it's highly possible that they had children before George (whom you say was born in 1843).
Did you obtain their death certificates from Victoria BMD online?
Cheers,
Rodeo
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(the B-index column indicates individuals who may be found in that index, with corresponding reference number for further research)[/i]
From the wording (above) regarding the "B Index 339/3" notation on the passenger list cited, it seems to me there is a possibility of further information being available about them, held perhaps in the Archives - and possibly to do with them being Assisted Immigrants.
I don't know how you would go about finding out, but perhaps you could contact the SA Archives for advice?
http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/
I also wouldn't focus too much on John being born "June 1814 and May 1815" by basing this soley on his recorded age at death.
Ages on death certificates can be and often were, wrong - sometimes out by a year or 2, sometimes by much more. At this stage, I would say you couldn't dismiss any possibile candidate born between say, 1812-1820.
Assisted immigrants also were apt to doctor their ages in order to place themselves within official or percieved age-criterias
Cheers
AMBLY
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Oops! Sorry, Ashleigh. I meant to say South Australia BMD online here:
http://www.familyhistorysa.info/births-marriages-deaths/
Cheers,
Rodeo
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hey guys,
Ambly can you please explain to me what the b-index is? I don't quite get it.
Rodeo, I can't find the census record.. you cant possibly send me a link can you?
Also, I haven't purchased the death certificates... only because they are so bloody expensive in SA.. in victoria or NSW they give you a smaller piece of info that you can buy for like 99c... but SA charge you $49 each.
Thanks
Ash
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I've sent you a PM.
Cheers,
Rodeo
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In my family tree i have the surname Crawford who married into the McKendrick family i wonder if the your Crawford line might be related to my Crawford line that married into the McKendrick line
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It seems I am a good few years late to this thread.
I'm a decendent of the aforementioned John Crawford too. I've been looking into him as well and some to come up against the same sort of road blocks as others who've written here.
I think the 1815 comes from the Death Certificate (which via my uncle I have a copy of) where his age is given as 77 in 1892. The certificate seems to be issued in 1980 so unsure if it's fully correct.
In Aldine history and ships manifest 1817 would be the birth year. My sense is 1817 is correct but can't be sure.
The certificate doesn't really say alot more than what's already known. Died of "senile decay"...so old age I guess.
There are a few aspects of his life I havent been able to work out yet. Janet's death year prior and births in the family are mentioned in multiple newspapers but Johns there is nothing.
A curious aspect to that is all notices family posted said "please copy Glasgow papers" so there was some ongoing connection there.
Also Georges birth, can't find a record of it anywhere. There's some guy born roughly same time in what I believe is the wrong part of the country and parents names aren't correct.
As others noted can't pin them down in the census. The one with kids could be them but then the children either passed away or were left behind in Scotland. Tried to find death records for those names but no luck finding anything definitive.
Like mentioned in this thread there are candidates for Johns birth etc and some I could rule out by finding them in census post Johns 1849 emmigration. So I have a couple ideas. Ie parents James Crawford and Jean Christie. B 1817. But no way to confirm.
I've done a bigY DNA test and this also didn't give anything conclusive. I am a direct match to another Crawford who's ppl emmigrated to the US in the 1830s but from Ireland. I've spoken to the person involved and their family story was they were scottish til they found docs in the US where he gives place born as Dublin and cant go much further.. So whilst there is a definite link to our Crawfords it's likely a generation or two before where either can trace.
I think the B list thing refers to ppl listed in a biographical index. I don't know what that will really mean but I can't find it online. When I'm back I Oz next I might have to see if a library has it.
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I think the 1815 comes from the Death Certificate (which via my uncle I have a copy of) where his age is given as 77 in 1892. The certificate seems to be issued in 1980 so unsure if it's fully correct.
It just means that what you have is a copy made in 1980 of the original document that was created in 1892.
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Ah OK makes sense.