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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: mef on Friday 02 July 10 13:02 BST (UK)
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??? Hi to all from Melbourne Australia. I am searching for a Thomas Tennat (Tennent/Tennant) who was married by Banns on 9th August 1813, and Ann Wilson. Ann Wilson is cited as a Widow, so I dont have any clue as to her maid name. The marriage solemenisation copy that I have states this was done in the Chelsea in the County of Middlesex.
They had a child, Alexander Tennent, born 1816 in Battersea, Surrey, England. This Alexander married a Margaret Jane Brighton. Alexander Tennent is my G G G Grandfather.
I would be so grateful to anyone who could assist me with this family in any way. Thanks in anticipation, MEF
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what a pity Alexander & Margaret married in 1836 - a year or so later and you would had more details from a Civil Marriage - Father's names and occupations etc.
couldnt spot them as a couple in the 1841 census: but this may well be them in 1851.
When did they or descendants emigrate?
HO107; Piece: 1577; Folio: 138; Page: 2 Battersea - St Johns Road
Alexander Tenant 36 Head of Household born Middx, Chelsea: Bricklayer employing 1 Labourer
Margaret Tenant 34 Wife born Chelsea
Caroline Tenant 10 dau born Battersea
Jane Tenant 8 dau ditto
Harriet Tenant 5 dau ditto
Alexander Tenant 3 son ditto
Thomas Tenant 6 Mo son ditto
Also no luck with Thomas, his Father :(
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:)Thank you for your help. Alexander Tennent and Margaret came to Australia on the Birmingham Shipping record shows five children, the youngest being 1 year old. So yes this is them. The children's names agree with my records as well. I guess then it is reasonable to say they came to Australia in 1851/52. Although I have a copy of the shilling records, they do not have a date on them.
I am really trying to find more about Alexander's parents, so if you come across anything, please let me know.
Thanks, again, MEF
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Hi
1841 census HO107 1046/2 folio 17
Bolington Gardens Battersea Surrey
Ellie Tennant 25 Lab. Born Surrey
Margarett Tennant 20 born Surrey
Caroline Tennant 9 Months born Surrey
Adult ages, those over 15, are usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.
The yes born in the county on the 1841 census can often be inaccurate so Alexander's birthplace given on the 1851 census of Chelsea Middlesex is likely to be more accurate particularly since that is where Thomas and Ann Wilson married.
Does Alexander's Australian death certificate not specify who his parents were and therefore Ann's maiden name?
Regards
Valda
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??? Thank you for reply. I dont think this is accurate for a couple of reasons. One the place. Two the names of children. But will keep it for reference if I cant find proof for my other research.
Thanks MEF
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Hi
Both censuses 1841 and 1851 or just the 1841 census? If you accept the 1851 census then the 1841 census goes with it. Caroline the child aged 10 on the 1851 census gives her birthplace as Battersea which is where the 1841 census was and where the family still were in 1851. Caroline's mother was called Margaret who was aged 20 on the 1841 census (ages rounded down to the nearest 5 on that census) which fits to an age of 34 in 1851. The census enumerator has obviously made a mess of the name Alex (ander) but again his age fits to Alexander's in 1851 -25 in 1841 and in 1851- 36. The next child born on the 1851 census was Jane aged 8 so she wouldn't be in the 1841 census.
As far as the 1841 census goes there was a general belief that the census was a way of gathering data for the poor law and that people might in consequence end up being sent back to their place of birth. This could be the reason, as well as a hazy knowledge of county geography, that many people gave yes to the county of birth question, claiming they were born in the county, when later censuses showed they were not.
St Mary, Battersea 18th October 1836 born 10th October
Elizabeth Jane Tenant parents Alexander and Margaret Jane, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
buried at the same church 11th December 1837 aged 14 months Elizabeth Tenant
same church
9th September 1840 born same day
Caroline Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
14th January 1844 born 25th November 1843
Jane Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
19th April 1846 born 26th March
Harriet Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret Jane, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
1st April 1849 born 5th June 1848
Alexander Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret Jane, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
buried 12th July aged 3 1851
13th October 1850 born 23rd September
Thomas Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret, Battersea, father's occupation bricklayer
27th November 1853 born 27th September
Henry Tennent parents Alexander and Margaret, Battersea, father's occupation bricklayer
Does Alexander's Australian death certificate not specify who his parents were and therefore Ann's maiden name?
Regards
Valda
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Alexander Tennat
Baptised
10 Nov 1816
s/o Thomas & Agnes
St Luke, Chelsea
Date: 10 Nov 1816
Thomas was a shoemaker
it does give an address for Thomas & co. but i cannot read it clearly
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just to add for interest there was also 2 BRIGHTON children bp. on the same page Mary Ann b. 1813 & Edward James presumably born 1816 children of Martin James & Elizabeth, Martin was a labourer and they lived at paradise walk.
N.B. i think Thomas Tenat lived at Jews Row
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looking at the marriage (transcribed as Senant)
9th AUg 1813
Thomas Tennat Bachelor OTP and Ann Wilson widow By Banns at St Luke Chelsea
by John Rush curate
x the marl of T Tennat
x the mark of A Wilson
wits: John ..... and John Baker (both signed)
now the next marriage on the same day and same page and same church is that of said John Baker bachelor to Rebecca Grantham spinster
JOhn Signed and Rebecca made her mark
witnesses at this wedding were JOhn ........ of before and C Goodyes ??
so they may be of relevance of just someone who was witness for them on the day
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and Thomas Tennett of Jews Row was buried on 27 Feb 1818 aged 40 at St Lukes Chelsea
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15 Jan 1819
Agnes Tennant Widow OTP (St Mary Lambeth)
married
John Hughes Bachelor OTP
by banns
by Arthur Gibson Curate
x the mark of John Hughes
x the mark of Agnes Tennant
in the presence of
Jas Longman Gawder (really not sure of this surname it could be the same as witness to John Baker marriage from before)
John Linger
could someone please check the names i cannot read clearly
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finally as this is a different parish and i expect there were loads of John Hughes and AGnes this bp. may not be relevant
12 Dec 1819
Susanna
d/o John & Agnes Hughes of Marylebone
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:)Thank you for your help. Alexander Tennent and Margaret came to Australia on the Birmingham Shipping record shows five children, the youngest being 1 year old. So yes this is them. The children's names agree with my records as well. I guess then it is reasonable to say they came to Australia in 1851/52. Although I have a copy of the shilling records, they do not have a date on them.
Hi MEF. You don't sound too sure about the details.
Alexander and Margaret arrived in Portland on 6 January 1855 on board the Birmingham. Port of departure: Plymouth.
Children with them were Caroline (14), Jane (10), Harriet (8 ), Thomas (3) and Henry (1).
No sign of their son, Alexander.
Dave
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No sign of their son, Alexander.
Dave
1st April 1849 born 5th June 1848
Alexander Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret Jane, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
buried 12th July aged 3 1851
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snip
in the presence of
Jas Longman Gawder (really not sure of this surname it could be the same as witness to John Baker marriage from before)
John Linger
The witness was James Longman GAWLER. He must have been one of the professional witnesses I think as I have seen him a number of times on St Mary Lambeth marriages at that time.
Ian C
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Hi
A possible Agnes
1851 census HO107 1577 folio 61
1 Phoenix Wharf Battersea
Agnes Hughes 73 Head Widow Scotland
Agnes Watkins 40 Daughter Widow Warehousewoman Woodbridge Suffolk (on the 1871 and 1881 censuses states birthplace as Battersea and then Scotland)
William Watkins 16 Grandson Plasterer's Labourer Braintree Essex
Susannah Watkins 14 Granddaughter Day servant Battersea Surrey
Ann Elizabeth Hughes 13 Granddaughter Battersea Surrey
In 1841 a few households away from the Tennant family
1841 census HO107 1046/2 folio 17
Bollington Gardens Battersea Surrey
Agnes Hughes 60
Ane Hughes 4
Agnes Watkins 30
William Watkins 7
Susannah Watkins 5
all born Surrey
St Mary, Battersea Wandsworth 29th May 1851
Agnes Hughes aged 75, Battersea
This John may or may not be connected because there are other Hughes being buried in Battersea
St Mary, Battersea Wandsworth 30th May 1837
John Hughes aged 72, Battersea
Susan/Susannah Watkins on her marriage to William Baker in Battersea in 1855 gave her father's details as John Watkins, Labourer
It could be possible that Agnes Watkins maiden name was Wilson. Agnes as a name was more popular in Scotland than England and it can sometimes appear as Ann so that doesn't rule out the 1813 marriage in Chelsea.
Regards
Valda
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WOW, what a great response to my initial posting. Some of the information jells with mine, and some I will have to sift through, but I am very grateful to you, and others who responded. Many thanks, MEF
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Hi Ian can you check the witness on the JOhn Baker marriage to see who he was please
Mef, i think that Agnes and Ann are the same person and as Valda says Ann is a diminitive form of Agnes more commonly used in Scotland at this period, it is also a name in its own right.
so although she married using the name Ann when she bp. Alexander she used the name Agnes as she did when she married John Hughes
hopefully that is Agnes that Valda has found in 1841 & 1851 i have to say it very much looks like it. Agnes would have had to marry pretty quickly after Thomas death to enable her to provide for her child/ren unless she found an occupation which allowed her to take Alexander with her.
its worth checking up on Agnes Watkins to see if her maiden name was Hughes. :)
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Hi
Agnes Watkins' maiden name is unlikely to be Hughes - she would be to old, birth circa 1811 - it should be Wilson if this is the right family. Whoever was the Hughes parent of Ann Elizabeth Hughes would be a child of the third possible marriage, if this Agnes senior is the correct candidate.
James Longman Gawler was a 'professional' witness as St Mary's Lambeth - he was the clerk of the parish
'James Longman Gawler. dates: 1788-1866 - botanist'
'Ann Gawler (1791-1844), of Lambeth; wife of James Longman Gawler, parish clerk and undertaker, also a botanist'
Regards
Valda
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:-[ Sorry Valda i meant Wilson
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Banns were read at St Mary Hanwell (Ealing) for John Watkins Bachelor and Ann Wilson Spinster BOTP
on 10 July 1831 by J Buck
17 July 1831 by Rev D Walmer
24 July 1831 by Rev J Buck
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???Hello all and so manythanks for all your replies. I think ?? I am going with the parents of Alexander Tennat (1816) as being Thomas Tennat and Ann Wilson, who were married by banns on 9th August, 1813, Parish of Chelsea, County Middlesex.
However I have no clue as to Ann's maiden name as it is not stated anywhere I can find.
Next I have a Thomas Tennent, who we agree lived on Jews Row, being buried 27th February 1818 aged 40, St. Lukes Chelsea.
I accept that Ann (Wilson, Tennent) then married on 15 Jan 1819 married at S.t Mary, Lambeth, John Hughes by banns.
(I cant as yet correlate any fourth marriage with Watkins, but have not discounted it permenently.)
Alexander Tennent and Margaret Jane (Brighton) were married in 1835 and immigrated to Australia 1851 with family.
Alexander Tennent died Collingwood Victoria Australia 1886, with wife being cited as Margaret Jane Black (But should be Brighton) Aged...72.
Margaret Jane Tennent (Brighton) died in Collingwood Victoria Australia in July 1873.
Would someone please have a look at this and confirm what I think is correct?
Many thanks, MEF
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Hi
The marriage of Agnes Wilson to John Watkins would be that of Alexander Tennant's older half sister from his mother's first marriage.
1851 census HO107 1577 folio 61
1 Phoenix Wharf Battersea
Agnes Hughes 73 Head Widow Scotland
Agnes Watkins 40 Daughter Widow Warehousewoman Woodbridge Suffolk (on the 1871 and 1881 censuses states birthplace as Battersea and then Scotland)
William Watkins 16 Grandson Plasterer's Labourer Braintree Essex
Susannah Watkins 14 Granddaughter Day servant Battersea Surrey
Ann Elizabeth Hughes 13 Granddaughter Battersea Surrey
Regards
Valda
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would Agnes death cert. show her maiden name ?
burial
St Mary, Battersea Wandsworth 29th May 1851
Agnes Hughes aged 75, Battersea
added GRo :
Deaths Jun 1851
Hughes Agnes Wandsworth 4 39 or 58
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To summarise :
Thomas Tennat was married by Banns on,
9th AUg 1813
Thomas Tennat Bachelor OTP and Ann Wilson widow By Banns at St Luke Chelsea
by John Rush curate
x the mark of T Tennat
x the mark of A Wilson
wits: John ..... and John Baker (both signed)
** Ann / Agnes had a daughter from her first marriage also called Ann /Agnes
Thomas and Ann / Agnes had a son, Alexander Tennat
Baptised10 Nov 1816
s/o Thomas & Agnes
St Luke, Chelsea
Date: 10 Nov 1816
Thomas was a shoemaker
residing in Jews Row
Thomas Tennett of Jews Row was buried on 27 Feb 1818 aged 40 at St Lukes Chelsea
On 15 Jan 1819
Agnes Tennant Widow OTP (St Mary Lambeth)
married
John Hughes Bachelor OTP
by banns
by Arthur Gibson Curate
x the mark of John Hughes
x the mark of Agnes Tennant
A John Hughes and Agnes baptised a daughter. Susanna, on12 Dec 1819 at Marylebone
** this is NOT confirmed as being the daughter of your John Hughes and Agnes
Banns were read at St Mary Hanwell (Ealing) for John Watkins Bachelor and Ann Wilson Spinster BOTP
on 10 July 1831 by J Buck
17 July 1831 by Rev D Walmer
24 July 1831 by Rev J Buck
** this is Ann / Agnes the daughter of Ann / Agnes previous marriage
in 1841 just a few houses away from the Tennant family
1841 census HO107 1046/2 folio 17
Bollington Gardens Battersea Surrey
Agnes Hughes 60
Ane Hughes 4
Agnes Watkins 30
William Watkins 7
Susannah Watkins 5
all born Surrey
and 1851
1851 census HO107 1577 folio 61
1 Phoenix Wharf Battersea
Agnes Hughes 73 Head Widow Scotland
Agnes Watkins 40 Daughter Widow Warehousewoman Woodbridge Suffolk (on the 1871 and 1881 censuses states birthplace as Battersea and then Scotland)
William Watkins 16 Grandson Plasterer's Labourer Braintree Essex
Susannah Watkins 14 Granddaughter Day servant Battersea Surrey
Ann Elizabeth Hughes 13 Granddaughter Battersea Surrey
Burial
St Mary, Battersea Wandsworth 29th May 1851
Agnes Hughes aged 75, Battersea
(GRO ref Wandsworth Q2 1851 Agnes Hughes 4 39 or 58)
And possible for John (there are other Hughes being buried in Battersea at the same time)
St Mary, Battersea Wandsworth 30th May 1837
John Hughes aged 72, Battersea
Susan/Susannah Watkins on her marriage to William Baker in Battersea in 1855 gave her father's details as John Watkins, Labourer
~~~
Alexander b. 1816 m. Margaret Jane Brighton in 1836
They had several children (as found by Valda) :
St Mary, Battersea 18th October 1836 born 10th October
Elizabeth Jane Tenant parents Alexander and Margaret Jane, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
buried at the same church 11th December 1837 aged 14 months Elizabeth Tenant
same church
9th September 1840 born same day
Caroline Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
14th January 1844 born 25th November 1843
Jane Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
19th April 1846 born 26th March
Harriet Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret Jane, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
1st April 1849 born 5th June 1848
Alexander Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret Jane, Battersea, father's occupation labourer
buried 12th July aged 3 1851
13th October 1850 born 23rd September
Thomas Tennant parents Alexander and Margaret, Battersea, father's occupation bricklayer
27th November 1853 born 27th September
Henry Tennent parents Alexander and Margaret, Battersea, father's occupation bricklayer
1841 census HO107 1046/2 folio 17
Bolington Gardens Battersea Surrey
Ellie Tennant 25 Lab. Born Surrey
Margarett Tennant 20 born Surrey
Caroline Tennant 9 Months born Surrey
Adult ages, those over 15, are usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.
1851
HO107; Piece: 1577; Folio: 138; Page: 2 Battersea - St Johns Road
Alexander Tenant 36 Head of Household born Middx, Chelsea: Bricklayer employing 1 Labourer
Margaret Tenant 34 Wife born Chelsea
Caroline Tenant 10 dau born Battersea
Jane Tenant 8 dau ditto
Harriet Tenant 5 dau ditto
Alexander Tenant 3 son ditto
Thomas Tenant 6 Mo son ditto
Alexander and Margaret arrived in Portland on 6 January 1855 on board the Birmingham. Port of departure: Plymouth.
Children with them were Caroline (14), Jane (10), Harriet (8), Thomas (3) and Henry (1).
Alexander Tennent died Collingwood Victoria Australia 1886, with wife being cited as Margaret Jane Black (But should be Brighton) Aged...72.
Margaret Jane Tennent (Brighton) died in Collingwood Victoria Australia in July 1873.
~~
It appears Ann / Agnes originated in Scotland and she was aged 73/75 in 1851 thus born circa 1777 hopefully her death certificate will show maiden name but this is not a dead cert. As the person giving the information would have had to know her maiden name.
Another way to find out would be to locate Ann / Agnes first daughter (also Ann / Agnes) bp. circa 1811 in Woodbridge Battersea or Scotland (as per the census I would go fro Battersea first) – this would then say her fathers name and then you can locate a marriage betwixt Ann / Agnes senior and the father to give her maiden name unless she was a widow on that marriage. 32 is a bit long in the tooth for a first marriage (in my opinion)
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Hi
Maiden names are not shown on death certificates in England at this time
http://www.direct.gov.uk/dr_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_176222.pdf
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/deaths.htm
Regards
Valda
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Hi
Maiden names are not shown on death certificates in England at this time
Regards
Valda
ah i see it wasnt recorded until April 1st 1969 so it looks like it the long way round to find her maiden name
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Thankyou so much, to all, but particularly Valda and Toni, for helping me. I really do appreciate everything you have done and will now go about trying to find out the birth and marriages (plural) for Ann/Agnes to complete her details.
Now I know I am pushing it, but where could there be any further information backwards for Thomas. We have his marriage (1813) and death (1818) and age at death ....now to see if I can find where he was born etc. Will start with Battersea, and see how I go.
How I wish in those days people didnt spell phonetically tho!!!!
Cheers, MEF
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Ages at death can vary from what age the actual person was, the only true person to now how old he / she is the deceased so the informant will give what age they think the deceased was. People didn’t keep track of their age as we do these days However it would be very unusual for someone to say the person was 40 when they were 70 and vice versa so 40 is a good starting point. Thus making him born circa 1778 so he would be around the same age as Ann / Agnes.
He was OTP of Chelsea when he married in 1813 this does not mean he was born there it simply means he had lived there for at least 3 weeks prior to the marriage. If Ann / Agnes was not of the parish banns would also have to be read at her home parish church.
Thomas was a shoemaker and lived in Jews Row (in 1816 & 1818) I wonder if there are any directories that may help locate him.
I don’t know other ways to locate him he could have been born literally anywhere and we have no idea of his parents names or siblings as they were not witness to his marriage.
I personally thought Tenant was a Scottish name but I may be (and probably am) wrong!
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Hi
Will start with Battersea, and see how I go.
Both Thomas Tennant's marriage and death were in Chelsea Middlesex. Any family connection with Battersea Surrey was later - earliest date seems to be in the 1830s.
Thomas could have been born anywhere. Many people were and are attracted to London for the job opportunities.
Regards
Valda
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Hi just found your post here, Alexander Tennant is my ggg grandfather. I to have not got any further than Alexander and that of his parents names. I think somewhere i had agnes as agnes heslop. parents william heslop and margaret horle. not sure who i got the info from and not sure if ever confirmed.
mary ann brighton, margaret jane's sister married william elliott.
There son William Elliott married Jane Tennant in collingwood victoria Australia. they are my g g grandparents
I think most of what's posted fits this family. great work :)
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Hello, and thanks for your posting. I have also some stuff on Elliott family, and have addresses of some researching this part of the family. If you would like to email me off site I will happily share these addresses with you. I am pretty confident that what I have is correct, but will have a look at the Heslop name. I have a copy of Thomas and Ann (Wilson) marriage banns, but as she is listed as a widow, then her maiden name could have been Heslop? Love to keep in touch, Marg
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