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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: lions2001 on Thursday 01 July 10 07:40 BST (UK)
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Emma Ord came to Australia on the "Lizzie Webber" which left Sunderland in July 1852 arriving Port Phillip Bay Victoria Australia December 1852. On the passenger list she is travelling with a Robert Ord listed as her husband and three children. I cannot find a marriage for her and Robert Ord, born 1814 in Sunderland. I have located Emma in the 1851 census living in Sunderland with an Isbella Hudson, who I think may be her sister. How would I be able to find out their maiden names. Emma died in Hobart Tasmania in 1854. I have no idea what happened to her children. I do know that Robert Ord returned to England around 1863 and died in Sunderland in 1874. I have found a marriage for him in 1851 to a Margaret Moon. She died in 1896. This Robert Ord is proving to be a mystery...Can anyone help? Thank you
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Hi and welcome to rootschat
Were any of the children for Emma or Isabella born after 1837? If so a birth certificate should give the mother's maiden name. However, the Emma shown in 1851 with Isabella is unmarried.
Regards
Andrea
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As Emma died in 1854 in Tasmania, I don't think the 1851 marriage in Sunderland to Margaret Moon can be your Robert? Especially as Emma's death notice in the The Courier (Hobart) describes her as the wife of Robert Ord. I found a marriage in Sunderland in 1845 of a Robert Ord to a Margaret Scott - but, like you, cannot find a marriage to an Emma. Dazey
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Does the passenger record give ages of Robert and Emma and names and ages for the children?
I don't suppose death certificates at this time give details such as parent's names?
If you were able to locate their children you may find Emma's maiden name on their marriage or death certificates (this would be a question to post on the Australia board).
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I think Ruskie is right and we need to establish whether the children with the Emma in 1851 are the same ones who travelled out with them. If not that may be a complete red herring.
Does the Robert who married Margaret shows up in England on later census - eg 1861.
Andrea
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Do you know the children's names or dates of birth,
Robert Ord and a Emma have two children listed on familysearchorg,
Ada Isabella Ord 23 rd July 1851 Houghton Le Spring,
Elizabeth Ord 15TH September 1845 Bishopswearmouth,
Robert Ord and Margaret Walker Scott a widow when married, also have two children listed
Robert 18Th July 1853 Bishopswearmouth,
Caroline 4th October 1854,Bishopswearmouth
Which need to be checked out properly ,but which ones
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The Emma Ord
visiting Isabella Hudson was born in Woolwhich Kent,
her two children are
Elizabeth 6
Emma 1 1/2
both children born Durham.
I cant read the street address ,
Bishopswearmouth ,
St Michael,
Sunderland,
it doesn't mention that they are related to Isabella who is a mariners wife ,he her husband is away at sea,
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I thought it was significant that both Isabella and Emma were born in the same place but it does not prove any sort of relationship of course.
The second child of Robert and Emma may have been born after the 1851 census. We will just have to wait for a response from lions2001 I think before we speculate further.
Andrea
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Hello to you all and thank you. All of your information has been helpful and as with all family history creates more questions.
There were three children listed on the Lizzie Webber with Emma and Robert Ord, Emma Indria listed as a child, Elizabeth Bertha again listed as a child, I did have her birth date and it is the same as the one given by you and Ada Isabel aged 1. I have never found a birth date for Emma Indria, did know that Ada was born in Hougton Le Spring. Regarding the passenger list on the Lizzie Webber I am able to access the original list from my city library where I live in Australia, and I am sure that this will give me more detailed information. Time permitting will research this next week.
Regarding Robert Ord there is one listed in the 1861 census as living in Bristol and born in Newcastle. I do know that my Robert Ord was born in Sunderland.
In th 1861 Census there is as Margaret Ord, ship owners wife living in Sunderland. Both Margaret and Robert are in the 1871 Census living in Sunderland.
I have wondered if there are two Robert Ord's. Mine is the youngest son of Robert Ord and Ann Bell.
I have published my tree on Ancestry.com.au Title Robert Ord. Again thank you
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Perhaps Emma Indria was really Emma Maria Ord - birth registered Q4.1949 Houghton Le Spring?
This would be the little Emma Maria you found in the 1851 census with Isabella Hudson
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There are at least two Robert Ords. Ord is quite a common name in the region. Looking at the first few years of BMD there are dozens of entries in the north of England for Robert Ord so you will have to be clear which one is yours. Do you know his occupation?
Andrea
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To Dazzey99 and Sillgen
Thanks Elizabeth Marie strong possibility of being correct, always chance of an error in the transcribing. Original ships logs may confirm this for me. I have been told that Ord was a very common name around Country Durham, as I said my Robert was the youngest son of Robert Ord and Ann Bell. They were either ship owners or ship builders.
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When I have a moment I will check the census as I am sure that I saw another Robert Ord who was in ship building somewhere. Have you thought of looking for wills? They sound quite affluent. The one who died in Sunderland in 1874 was aged 61 so born c1813. Do you have that death certificate? It would be interesting to know who the informant was. The marriage that you mentioned to Margaret Moon is obviously wrong so there is a possibility for muddle here.
Andrea
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Andrea. I have thought at looking for wills, however think that it would be a little difficult for me as I live in Australia. Do you know if this can be done from where I live? I think that I will get the death certificate for Robert Ord who died aged 61, I can of course do that from Australia. using Free BMD/ Now sure that the marriage I had to Margaret Moon was incorrect.
Jo
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Before you order that certificate I should start another post in the Common Room asking for look ups in the wills index for Robert Ord - died in year .... and place .....
Check freebmd and see which ones are possible and then quote them. The probate index is available at lots of libraries and record offices (probably in Australia too) and gives a brief précis of the contents. Address and executor also so you can usualy tell if it is likely to be yours. All post 1858 wills can be odered from the York Probate Office if you decide you want the will.
Another option is to search the census an eliminate any other Roberts that you might find by seeing if they still appear in 1881.
Andrea
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The Emma Ord
visiting Isabella Hudson was born in Woolwhich Kent,
her two children are
Elizabeth 6
Emma 1 1/2
both children born Durham.
I have looked at Isabella Hudson and I think the possible connection is That she was Isabella Wilkinson that married Lancelot Hudson 30th Jan 1836 Sunderland they had a son Horney Magee Hudson Bishopswearmouth and a daughter Isabella 29Th October 1841,a Emma Wilkinson marries a Robert Ord in Newcastle 1845 ,I cant find the note I made of it at the moment sorry,the other Robert Ord that married in St Dunstans and all Saints Stepney Middlesex Tower Hamlets 12Th Jan 1845 also married a Emma Wilkinson,
I cant read the street address ,
Bishopswearmouth ,
St Michael,
Sunderland,
it doesn't mention that they are related to Isabella who is a mariners wife ,he her husband is away at sea,
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Sorry I made a mess trying to post a messagage using quote,hope you understand what I am trying to say,
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That is interesting. The Middlesex marriage does not show on freebmbd though. Where did you see it? Could it have been banns? Certainly worth getting the certificate for the Newcastle one.
Andrea
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Andrea will post for information on the will before ordering the certificate.
Shall also check out the census, gosh this is all confusing gets my head spinning. It is getting late in Aust so will work with a fresh mind in the morning
Jo
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Hello. Lancelot Hudson was the brother of one of my ancestors. As such, I have his wife Isabella Wilkinson and her sister, Emma, in my tree. I'm not sure if you've solved this by now, but I'll happily share the information I have researched:
Emma was living with her sister in 1851 in Sunderland. She's listed as unmarried but I think this may be incorrect. I don't have the marriage certificate for them, but I'd be tempted to go with the marriage in St John's in Newcastle 1845 as opposed to the one in London, as there is also a Robert (from Hoxton, whereas the 'right one' was from Sunderland) and Emma Ord living in Shoreditch in 1851.
Their children were Elizabeth Bussell Ord (b. 1845, Bishopwearmouth), Emma Maria Ord (b. 1849, Hetton-le-Hole) and Adah Isabella Ord (b. 1851, Houghton-le-Spring).
In 1856, Robert married Mary Ann Goddin in London and their children were Robert (b. abt 1857, Bow) and William (b. abt 1860 Stoke Newington).
In 1861, Robert and his family were living in Shepperton and he was a manager of rope factory.
In 1871, they were living in Islington where Robert is listed as a shipowner.
Elizabeth married John Richardson, a shipping agent's clerk from Sunderland, in 1867 in the Rotherhithe area. Emma married John Thomas Outwin, a wine and spirit merchant from Yorkshire, in 1878 in the Eastry area. Robert also married a third time (though I don't know the maiden name of that wife) and had more children.
As for Robert's parents, he was from the Ord family of shipowners of Sunderland. He was the son of Errington Bell Ord (1799-1863) and Elizabeth Bussell Ash (1798-1862). I took a picture of his parents grave (well, more like a crypt) in Bishopwearmouth Cemetery. Let me know if you'd like a copy.
I hope all of this helps.
P.S. I knew nothing of the link with Australia, so thanks for that.
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CWR1404
Thank you for the information on Emma Ord. It would appear that her Robert Ord was the nephew of the Robert Ord that I am tracing, his father also Robert Ord was the youngest brother of Errington Bell Ord. Your info has been a help and confirms my thoughts that this Robert Ord was related to mine I have found a photo of the grave of Errington Bell Ord's brothers grave...Thomas Bell Ord died 23th July 1856, this is also in the Bishopwearmouth Cemetery. It you can send me a copy of the photo of Errington's grave, I would appreciate it....thank you.
My Robert Ord and his wife Margaret are buried in the Sunderland Cemetery, grave number BB1148.
I was in Sunderland in January this year, with the information that I now have another visit would be even more interesting than the one in January.
Living in Australia I do hope that I can return. Have family in London so perhaps one day it will be possible.