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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: fenultimate on Sunday 27 June 10 09:09 BST (UK)
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I have just finished writing my autobiography, even though I had a dearth of information about my father's forebears from Bellsquarry. Father James Neil, Mother Catherine Barclay. James Neil was a shale miner, who died very young. I'd like to know the circumstances as my grandmother, Catherine Barclay, refused to talk about it.
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Hi Fenultimate
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Congratulations on finishing your Autobiography to date ;D
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
SP - Indexes 1 marriage of a couple so named - in 1902, indexed in Midlothian.
If you know James' birth date or year, have you tried to narrow down a death for him? Starting perhaps from the last known point when & where you believe he was alive (eg: at his marriage or 9 months prior to the birth of the youngest known child). If you don't know James' parents names - his marriage cert should (hopefully) name them and in turn, the same parents should (hopefully) be entered on a death certificate .
If he died relatively young, you might be lucky enough to have him 'stand out' in the Death indexes, otherwise you may have to risk getting a wrong cert or two - which is the reason to try narrow down the possibilities before you start parting with the folding....
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thank you so much. I am an absolute 'newbie' at this and, to make it a wee bit more difficult, I live on the South Coast. I hope to get up to West Lothian in the New Year and start chasing. My Grandmother would not even talk about the circumstances of my Grandfather's death to her own 5 sons! I believe it may have been mining-related, so there may well be an additional line of enquiry through the NUM. I also believe there is a Barclay Arms pub in Bellsquarry. I wonder if there was a connection there with my grandmother's family.
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Hello Ambly,
Just so happens that I have the marriage details of James Neil and Catherine Barclay, they married 1902 in Bellsquarry. His DC shows James died in the Royal Infirmary in Edinburgh aged 51 (so not so young) January 19th 1929, they were living in Mannerston Place, Penicuik at the time. His COD was Carcinoma of Liver (6 months) and Broncho Pneumonia. So no suspicious circumstances I'm afraid. It was probably a horrible time for your Grandmother. Name on his DC is James Waugh Neil (Waugh was his mother's maiden name). His father was deceased and his mother still living. His son James signed the DC.
The Inn in Bellsquarry was The Elm Tree Inn, whilst it may have been the Barclay Inn at some point, I've never heard it referred to as that, as we "Cauther" folk have long memories.
I hope this helps .... and you may find that he is buried in Penicuik and not West or Mid Calder.
cheers ... Meg
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Thanks so much Cauther Lassie. As you say, it must have been a pretty horrible time for all. Cancer of any kind let alone of the liver must have been a hideously painful disease, with little relief.
I'm amazed that my father would not talk about this. He would have been 13 at the time. All five brothers died some years ago, so unless my cousin Jim in Penicuik has any more info the secret has died with them. James, who signed the DC was the eldest, and the first to pass away, was my cousin Jim's father.
I can't remember where I picked up the titbit about the Barclay Arms, but I will apply some methodology and see if I can resurrect it. Thank you once again.
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Hello Again,
Glad that was useful, here's what I have, which may also help, or at least you'll have them.
cheers ... Meg
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Thank you so much Meg.
You don't irealise that these delvings into the past might create more questions than answers.
Got to rewrite some of the autobiography, which must be on hold pending answers.
Allan
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Hello Meg,
Oh my! What a can o' worms! D'you think you could possibly contact me on my E-mail (*) to save taking up space on this website. I'll happily post the saga afterwards.
Allan
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Hi,
Re the Inn in Bellsquarry.
It was in fact know as Barclay's before it was the Elm Tree Inn.
Your memory must be slipping Megs as I'm only a year or two, at most, older than you :-))
Blinkyman
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Oh well Old Age doesn't come itself, however, I've only ever known it as the Elm Tree, which Henry Spurway was running, though as a child I didn't pay a lot of attention to pubs!! Sadly can't ask my Dad who would have given me chapter and verse on the place.....
cheers ... Meg
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Thank you so much, Blinkyman & Meg. I've neglected this side of my searching to get on with my mother's side in South Lanarkshire, plus researching a new book (fiction), which may well feature Camilty Poothermill and even the Barclay Arms/Elm Tree, as well as Whitehill Colliery and the Roslin Poothermill near Penicuik. I was able to obtain book shown below from West Lothian Library
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Hello Allan,
now why did you buy Camilty, I've got it here, in fact caused a wee stooshie as some of the quotes were from something I'd put together and my laddie took exception to it so contacted the head of library services, Lord, know he was protecting his mother but I'd have let it alone!!
Glad to hear you're still writing .....
cheers .... Meg
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Ah well, Meg, it didnae cost a fortune!! Now the trick is working out the bits that you wrote!!
I also bought an excellent CD (below) about the Roslin Works. Unfortunately none of the photos within are copyable. There's a mention of a Barclay but no indication if he was one of the workers who commuted daily from the Cauthers after Camilty closed. It has proved to be a double-edged sword as there is another family Neil, living almost cheek by jowl with my lot and working at the Poothermill. Lots of Jameses on both sides. One Sam was killed in 1890 in an explosion that took another five besides him. He may be the common denominator.
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Hello Allan,
The Roslin book looks good, must see if WLFHS can get their hands on a copy .... Saw the Samuel who died in the 1890's but didn't get his DC and there's quite a few of the Neil's in Burngrange but didn't chase them until you'd sorted out the first can of worms I opened for you - I'm good at that!!
Chasing Buchans from St Combs, Lonmay, Aberdeenshire for a wee lassie at Ian's work and good god in govan, think there's only three families inhabited the village, Buchan's, Bruce's and Strachan's - Buchan's marrying Buchan's, Buchan's marrying Bruce's and vice versa and same with the Strachan's - I was fair dizzy this weekend her GTGt Grandfather was Alex Buchan who married Margaret Bruce - ah ....... but three Alex Buchans all born within three years of each other, all married Margaret Bruce - again within three years of each other - so I was upside down, inside out and fair round about with them all!! Keeps life interesting I suppose!!
Time for the feet up as I'll be at a meeting of WLFHS tomorrow night, if I can find the place it's being held at, (different venue this time) - topic Researching Irish Ancestors - hope it helps with some of my brick walls, but we'll see .....
take care, cheers .... Meg
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Some years ago a friend was telling me of the trouble he was having tracing his family, which came from a small village in Norfolk. It seems there were four families in the village all with the SAME name, but separated enough to be able to intermarry!!!
Look in your Email inbox where I have left Winnie Stevenson's E-address.
Allan
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hi,
'Chasing Buchans from St Combs, Lonmay, Aberdeenshire for a wee lassie at Ian's work and good god in govan, think there's only three families inhabited the village, Buchan's, Bruce's and Strachan's - Buchan's marrying Buchan's, Buchan's marrying Bruce's and vice versa and same with the Strachan's - I was fair dizzy this weekend her GTGt Grandfather was Alex Buchan who married Margaret Bruce - ah ....... but three Alex Buchans all born within three years of each other, all married Margaret Bruce - again within three years of each other - so I was upside down, inside out and fair round about with them all!! Keeps life interesting I suppose!!'
I have Buchan's on mytree from Aberdeen. William Buchan, 1838, born Aberdeen, marrying Christina Laurence, 1840, born Brechin.
Lynda
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I can understand how you feel. A few years ago a friend of mine started out along this now familiar path. He found origins in a small village in Norfolk where there were four families, all with the same name, related distantly enough to interbreed legally! And interbreed is what they did. No they weren't called Rabbett, though they should have been!
Allan
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The wee lassie about the Buchans would be LindyLou? Somehow I got her message too. Serves me right for being such a technophobe!!
Allan
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No Allan,
The wee lassie is from Ian's work and isn't on Rootschat - I'm her resource!!
cheers ... Meg
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ha ha,am having a wee giggle tae masel here....weeee lassie......long time since ah been called that....thank you...
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Hi, as a newbie I have been browsing this site and came across these posts. My mother was/is related to the Barclays who had the Inn. If you are interested I could look out my information. Majey
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Hello Majey,
Many thanks for your post, and sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, we're having our attic cleared this week and as there's more than 30 years of JUNK up there, you can imagine the chaos!!
Very interested in any information you have on the Barclay's of the Inn, they were long gone when I was a wee lassie in Cauther & Polbeth.
cheers ..... Meg
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Hi Allan. I happened to come across this site tonight and your interest in the Barclay clan. If you're still looking for information regarding the family history then get back to me. My great-grandfather, Alexander Duff Barclay, was Catherine Barclays father. Alexander had eight children in total. The first, Jane Barclay was the illegitimate child of his relationship with Helen Cameron. His first marriage was to Robina Harper while he was a serving police officer. They had three children, Catherine, Annie and Alexander. Unfortunately in 1882, Robina died aged only 31 from bronchial problems. Catherine would only have been 8 yrs old. Alexander re-married and had a further 4 children with his second wife Jane Cockburn. James, Elizabeth, Agnes and Andrew. When Alexander retired from the police he took over the running of the Elm Tree Inn in Bellsquarry. The business consisted of two 'arms' at that time, the pub and a coach hire service. When Alexander died in 1926, his son Andrew Barclay (my grandfather)took over the business which was, in the early days, mainly run by his wife Janet. They remained there until their retiral in 1969. The pub has always been known as the Elm Tree Inn but back then it was locally referred to as 'Barclays'. Prior to taking over the pub and indeed for some years thereafter, Andrew worked at Camilty Powder Mill. When that closed in 1931 he transferred to Roslin Gunpowder mill and remained there driving the powder lorries until being called up c.1940. As I mentioned, if there's anything I can help you with, let me know. Eric
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hello Eric,
Saw your post as I was browsing yesterday, and was very interested, I gave Alan a hand with some of his early research, being always interested in any and all research for West Calder & District!!
Then today, I was talking to your brother!! Long arm of coincidence strikes again. My initial research I only got back to James and Jane Bruce.
I only got to know the Elm Tree in the 70's, though I often went with my Dad in the Postvan on his rounds, but at that age, wasn't very interested in Pubs so probably didn't pay any attention!! I would have been in the RAF when your Grandparents gave up the Inn, but I'm sure that they'd have known my Dad.
I was interested to learn that Alex D had another daughter, I never came across anything about her....... though I have the rest of the children with Robina and Jane Cockburn.
Thank you for your post ................ cheers ..... Meg
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Hi Meg, Small world indeed ! As you now know, I had mentioned to Ian about coming across the forum and, among other things, the postings of Cauther Lassie. Then today I bumped into him... 'Guess who I was talking to ?' Spooky ! Your dad's name had my mother searching some of her memory banks too. We lived in the flat above the pub until it was sold to Henry Spurway who turned that into the cabaret bar around 1970/71. Viewing the pub as my spiritual home, I still drop in every now and again and sample their wares although it's not the place it was in the 70s/80's. Old habits die hard. I've a picture (somewhere) of Alexander Barclay round the back of the Elm Tree, sitting around a table with three of his cronies, apparently putting the world to rights with the assistance of a bottle of whisky. He was pensioned out the police after he had a finger bitten off while arresting a drunken Irish navvy in West Calder, sometime in the 1890's. The photo shows the gap where the finger once sat. I'll see if I can look it out. Eric
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Hello Cousins, we descend from Alexander Duff Barclay's illegitimate child, Jane, who was born 16 Oct 1871. Her daughter was Agnes McBeath who married George Alexander Cowan after he divorced his first wife. However our main line of descent is from Alexander's youngest brother, George Barclay, born 1859. He too married twice and had seven children, three by his second wife. She was married three times. This makes our descent from Alexander Barclay and his wife Anne Duff a double one. We recently had our DNA tested which confirms our connection to them.
I would love to share photos and information, especially the photo of ADB sitting by his Pub.
I am unsure whether I can post my email address on this site, and believe that I have to be privately messaged.
Looking forward to replies, Lorna, Ryder and Chris Cowan and Stuart Flaws.