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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: geneseeker1 on Friday 25 June 10 14:32 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me to discover what became of
Snowdrop Gertrude Violet Brown Gregory.... yes bless her that was her name.
Born 1905, birth registered in Wandsworth.
Baptised in the parish of Ascension, Balham Hill in March 1905.
Her mother was Ethel M Gregory dob 1882. No father is registered and I have no clues to who he is. I am summizing his Surname may have been Brown as this is not one of our family names. This must have been very difficult for her in 1905. Ethel was a music-hall actress and sister to my great grand-father.
I have no idea what became of Ethel.....it does get a bit confusing as my grand-mother was named after her and so is also Ethel Margaret Gregory.. she however was born in Feb 1905 and went on to marry Stanley Hardy in 1932.
Back to little Snowdrop....
I have her in 1911 living with her grand-mother Clarissa Pendered in Clapham.
Clarissa died 3 years later in 1914 meaning Snowdrop would only be 9 years old. I have no idea what happened to her after this.
I do have copies of 4 photographs which were amongst my late grand-mothers belongings. However, the plot thickens, written on the back of these is "Queenie". She is a mystery.... or could she be Snowdrop?
The whole family is a puzzle. Any help would be welcomed.
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I am trying to work backwards on this, I was searching for Ethel Margaret born, your date 1882, I cannot find a birth for that but I have found the following
The only Ethel Margaret Gregory I can find was born 21/02/1884 Fulham
Baptised 13/04/1884
St Anselm Fulham and Hammersmith
she was 1 of twins other half was Clarissa Hannah
father Harry Laurie , mother Clarissa Martha
address 10 Salisbury Terr
fathers occupation a fishmonger
The only reason I am writing about this one is the familiarity of the name CLARISSA, you stated Snowdrop was living with her grandmother Clarissa, this just popped out at me, hope I am not barking up the wrong tree
Louisa Maud
PS, ADDED
Clarissa Margaret Gregory married Dec qtr 1899 to George Deal Pendered,
30/10/1899
George Deal Pendered 42 widow musician father Charles Deal Pendered
to
Clarissa Martha Gregory 40 widow father Thomas Cooper
St Saviours Brixton
both father's deceased
add 153 Acre Lane
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Thank you Louisa
This is the right Ethel Margaret as those were her parents, my great, great grand-parents. Henry died and Clarissa married George who was a musician in the Scots Guards Band at one time.
I have obviously got the birth date wrong and had no idea she was a twin.
I have not come across young Clarissa in any census records so will need to add that to my investigations.
Thanks for assistance
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Hi again Louisa
Have found young Clarissa's death in first quarter of 1885.
Poor little soul.
Still now discovered will not be forgotten
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1901 RG13/427, folio 60 page 5
153 ACRE LANE
George PENDERED 44 musician born Chelsea
Clarissa M 42 born Fleet St
Charles aged 12 born Pimlico
Bertram H Gregory Step son aged 20 born Regents Park
ETHEL M GREGORY step daughter aged 17 born Fulham MUSIC HALL ARTIST
Have you considered that Snowdrop and her mother might well have changed their surnames if they were in the music hall business
Louisa Maud
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As I can find no trace of either of them, Ethel after 1905 when Snowdrop was born, or Snowdrop after 1911, it is a distinct possibility. Especially in the world of music-hall.
I don't know how I would find out if they did.
This whole side of the family is throwing up mystery after mystery. Bertram, who you mentioned is my great grandfather. I know in 1911 cencus he was alive and kicking. By 1932 when my grandmother marries he is noted as deceased on the marriage certificate. I have looked everywhere and can find no record of his death.
Still these mysteries give me somethingto investigate.
Thanks Lousia
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Well I have just found Bertram Harding Gregory baptism at St Jude's kensal Green which is where I was baptised, what a coincidence
Born 04/02/1881
bapt 05/03/1882
Well I suppose all these mysteries keep you going, a family member of my husbands put DE in front of their name, he was also a musician, they thought it sounded more theatrical
What happened to Bertram's wife Alice nee Woodall ?
LM
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Hi again
Have you looked at emigrations, would Snowdrops mother have married and therefore she took on another name.
Bertram also had another daughter, have you checked on her marriage to see if Bertram is also shown as "dec".. I have tried every which way to find a death for Bertram, I entered just a christian name and then both Bertram Harding and even looking for Harding surname, no joy at all
Louisa Maud
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I have looked at emmigrations but could find no leads.
I have also looked at the marriage side for Ethel but as yet have not found a thing that would tie in.
At some point between 1911, I have Bertram, Violey Ivy and my gran Ethel, along with a "housekeeper" still in London, and 1932 when my gran married, the family moved to Luton.
Where Alice was in 1911 I do not know as yet. I have beem inable to locate her.
She died, I believe in 1960 in Luton. I am awaiting a copy of her death certificate to verify this.
I must admit as far as Berties death is concerned I too have tried every combination and have found zero.
Thanks for taking the time to help me on this Louisa. I have looked at it for so long I thought new eyes might find something I had missed.
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Forgot to say I have emailed the Music Hall Society to see if they have anything on an Ethel M Gregory.
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Hello again
Well that was good thinking about the music hall society, didn't know there was such a thing.
If you think Bertram and family lived in Luton then perhaps you could get to look at the electoral registers prior to 1932 when you believe he died , or even just before his wife died in 1960, that way you would find who also lived at their addresses, don't know how easy it is for you from where you hail from
Going back to Snowdrop, such a lovely name, perhaps she might have been taken in by a family if her mother was perhaps away or on stage somewhere away from home. I am trying to think of all possibilities here,
What about wills if you are able to search in London .
I do hope you have some joy in finding this family, frustrating isn't it
Louisa Maud
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It is very frustrating.... but it gives me something to investigate.
I have had no luck with the Music Hall Society. They have looked and can find no record of Ethel. They say there were hundreds of so called Music Hall Artists and she can't have made a name for herself as they have no record of her.
They advised I might find her name in old copies of Newspapers such as The Era, The Encore and The Performer. All are held in The British Library. Will have to leave that for a later date.
Will try to delve into the Luton side of things as well.
Once again thank you for your help.
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I think I will leave your research now but hopefully you can let me know how you get on, Luton does seem to be a good idea, not sure where the registers will be but it is obviously Bedfordshire
They cannot have just fallen off the planet !!
Happy hunting
Louisa Maud
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Will let you know if I discover anything Louisa.
Thanks again
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I have just returned from a few days away and I am wondering how your research is going for Snowdrop, or just call me plain nosey !!
regards
Louisa Maud
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Hi Louisa
Lol... I'm afraid I'm no further forward. Still no trace of her after 1911 census. Or her mum either.
I did read an interesting article whilst on holiday, I've been away too, it may explain why Ethel isn't on the 1911 census, or why I can't find her. If she was a "modern" as she appears to have been then it's quite possible she was involved in the suffragette movement and apparently the vast majority of then boycotted the census and are not on there.
The search goes on.....
Regards Barbara
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I was very surprised and interested to read about Snowdrop Gregory. Everything I have read from the posts fits in with my family history tree.
Ethel Margaret Gregory (Snowdrop's mother) was my 2nd great aunt. Yes, Ethel's twin was also named Clarissa and died in 1885, aged approx 1.
Ethel's mother, Clarissa Martha Gregory, was my 2nd great grandmother.
Clarissa's first son Harry Cyril Gregory was my great grandfather. Harry came to Australia approx 1896 and married Bathsheba Alice Goodall (also from England) in 1901 in Rockhampton, Qld. One of their daughters was my grandmother.
Does anyone know what happened to Clarissa's first husband Harry Laurie Gregory as I cannot find a death record for him and on Clarissa's marriage record to George Pendered it states they are both widows.
Any help would be greatly appreciated and thank you (Snowdop) for adding another branch to my tree.
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Snowdrop's birth reg: GREGORY, SNOWDROP GERTRUDE VIOLET BROWN -
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 659
Interestingly that did not come up until I knocked out "Gregory" as Mother's maiden name.
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www.gendatabase.com, a South African website, has a marriage for Snowdrop (she seems to have dropped the Gregory) to Douglas Stuart Forster.
A monthly subscription is needed to view the record.
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2 marriages are on Familysearch in South Africa for Snowdrop.
first in 1926 to Hector Parsons Rhodes - Divorced.
second in 1939 to George Price Redvers Mack.
pictures of certificates are available.
Ray
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It's 9 years since geneseeker1 posted this request. A lot has happened with regard to online records since then.
I hope he/she comes back to Rootschat.
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Yep, by now both the marriages are viewable on Familysearch.
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Wow. Thanks everyone for the information. Greatly appreciated. Cheers.
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Thank you :) I had picked the marriages up and was surprised to learn Snowdrop was in South Africa. I have no idea how or why she went there. The investigations continue. :)
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Hi everyone, I have found a death record for Snowdrop. She passed away on 1st July 1987 in Pietermaritzburg, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. Cause of death: cardiac arrest. She was still married to Douglas Stuart. I haven't been able to find out how she got to South Africa but will keep looking.
regards.
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Thanks for the update. It's always good to find another piece of the jigsaw :)
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Hi
Living with Clarrissa and Snowdrop is "Actress" "Florence Taylor" who was born about 1882.
Ray
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Thank you everyone for the updates. This whole side of my family tree is a mystery. I eagerly await the 1921 cencus to see what light, if any, it sheds.
Bathsheba.... with regard to Harry Laurie Gregory, he died in 1887 in Pancras, London.
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Geneseeker1, thank you so much for the death info on Harry Laurie Gregory. I can now close that page and continue on with all the others. Best regards.