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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: maccalenny on Thursday 24 June 10 07:03 BST (UK)
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Hi - I have the Bell family from Narborough moving moving up to Hunslet, Yorkshire in the 1870s sometime. It seemed a bit late for the general 'industrial revolution' move, and I wondered in anyone knows if Yorkshire was a common destination for Norfolk folk who wanted to head for a more industrial area - seems like a long way to go! Not sure if I should be lookng for a family link with that part of the world...
THanks
Kate
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Hi Kate
Yes lots of Norfolk families do seem to have made their way to Yorks by the look of it, my hubbys family the Butters had 3 sons Alfred, Henry and James moving to Harrogate between 1871-1881, Dad Walter stayed behind in Norfolk but Alfred's Gran Elizabeth and her family moved to Shipley between 1871-1881. I think something must have happened in the Anglia/East Coast area perhaps crop failure on the farms or an outbreak of a serious illness as on my Mum's side I see a lot of farming folk coming over from the Lincs area to Yorks between 1871-1881, so there does seem to be more than a coincidence.
Regards
Julie
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Hi
A lot of Norfolk families also seemed to move to Durham. A mining village where my ancestors lived had several Norfolk families in the censuses.
Ben
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Thanks guys - useful thoughts
Kate
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Question has been raised before. Must have been a popular choice!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,186367.0.html
'Hat.
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I have Norfolk Family moving up north at the same kind of time (between the 1871 & 1881 Cencus) ........ mine moved 1st to Lancashire - and then between 1881 & 1891 to Yorkshire
Irony is - they moved to a Tiny place in Yorkshire - Which 100 years later I moved from Lancashire to Yorkshire & also worked in (and only discoved this a few months ago!)
Gaille
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I know from my own family that Yorkshire paid better wages to miners and farmhands, don't know about other occupations. Plus my own Norfolk families moved up to the East Riding of Yorkshire where there was more work.
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Gosh there must be a lot of Yorkshire folk with Norfolk ancestors. And Durham folk. I know there are endless Londoners with Norfolk roots but wasn't too sure about Northerners until recently. I think though, in 1861 about 300 Norfolk born people were living in Liverpool.
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Gosh there must be a lot of Yorkshire folk with Norfolk ancestors. And Durham folk. I know there are endless Londoners with Norfolk roots but wasn't too sure about Northerners until recently. I think though, in 1861 about 300 Norfolk born people were living in Liverpool.
None of my family were part of this "exercise" but I think I saw on one episode of "Who Do You Think You Are" that there was a scheme when times were hard in Norfolk to resettle them - I think London was part of the scheme.
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Hi Kate,
I've got BELLs from the Hickling area of Norfolk going to Durham, generally involved in coal mining. I can't claim any definite knowledge on the subject, but it does seem to be a trend. A common link seems to be ports on the East coast, which makes me wonder if such moves were facilitated by shipping involved in the coal and grain trades.
Best wishes,
Nick
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My family were agricultural workersin Norfolk and my research showed that the cottage industries, which gave them extra work, started closing down and moving to Nottingham. They went to Yorkshire Middlesbrough and Guisborough and became Ironstone Miners. Later they moved again to Northumberland where they became coal miners.
Pat (ex Geordie)
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I have someone called Avies born about 1834 in Norwich moving to Liverpool, and I think working on the docks.
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Hi There. There was also a large influx of East Anglian people who came to Burton-on-Trent from the early 1860`s to 1920`s,they were known as "Norkies",although most of them came from Suffolk.They were employed by the many breweries here,and stayed from Michaelmas until Easter.Employed mostly as Maltsters because of their strongness acquired working the land.The brewery reps would recruit them in local pubs,and pay for a one-way train ticket,then if they stayed till Easter they would pay their ticket back and also give them a bonus.My own G.Grandfather did that and eventually my Grandfather Burton Aldous(named after the town)born in Peasenhall in 1878 came here along with his brothers and settled as did many others.There are still a lot of east anglian names left in the town,but alas no more Aldous my cousin being the last one left for Australia in the 1970`s.
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Hi
I've got a family member born North Norfolk in 1813 who by 1841 was working in a coal mine in Northumberland.
My Norfolk great-uncles, born in South Norfolk, all moved down to London to work as policemen, but one of them, immediately before he joined the Met, had worked in Armstrong's munitions factory in Newcastle, so yes, Norfolk folk often journeyed a long way for work.
I know that my south Norfolk lot had a choice between agriculture (in decline; poorly paid and seasonal) or fishing. My gt grandfather lost all 3 of his brothers in a fishing accident and his wife was determined none of her sons would be fishermen.
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The seasonal migration to Burton (but not Yorkshire) was the subject of an Anglia Television 'Bygones' programme which featured original footage of the journey and life in Burton. A few years ago the programme was released on DVD and makes fascinating viewing for anyone with ancestors involved in this business. There was a seasonal aspect to it because of the lack of work on farms in the Winter months - they also ran special train services between the areas.
Nick
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most of my Norfolk Skillings moved up to Tyneside!!
I remember the bit in the Who doyou think.. episode too.
Diddy
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I believe that there was a general agricultural depression in
England during the second half of the 19th century. My mother's family were ag labs in Cambridgeshire, again East Anglia, relatives of my father lived in South Lincolnshire, again near enough. Many of my mother's relatives moved north, to industrial Teeside, her uncle moved to Australia, and an uncle of my father from Pinchbeck South Lincs. moved to Canada, he returned 20 years later, complete with bride!
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In Essex another factor causing seasonal and permanent migration north was the practice where farm labourers were on half wages in winter, there were probably farmers in Norfolk with the same mean streak. Not sure where I read that but I think it was in a topic somewhere on the Essex board regarding the migration north from the Dengie area of Essex.
Regards.
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This could have been a factor across East Anglia. Hope that doesn't get too widely talked about, some employers might think it a good idea!
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One whole branch of my family in South Norfolk upped sticks to Tyneside. From Ag Lab to Labs.
meles
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But they would likely have higher wages; a positive, and worse living conditions a negative.
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Elizabeth Gaskill observed this dilemma with a true eye and a sympathetic voice.
meles
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I have a branch of the Crummett family (my 3 x gt granddad, wife and children) moving from Attleborough, Norfolk to Burnley, Lancashire between 1861 and 1871. Burnley isn't far from the county boundary with Yorkshire and a few of them did migrate into Yorkshire. They were agricultural labourers in Norfolk but worked in coal mining and the cotton mills in Burnley.
Luzzu
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Luzzu; many of our ancestors had to migrate to stay alive in the 19th century.
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my family (Bitton) descend from Great Yarmouth area and moved and settled in Hull. If therew is anything that I can help with please ask. :)
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My Gt Grandparents Alexander Olley & Martha S E.E.Bunn moved from Holt/Hunworth.
Alexander was a Railway Platelayer & they had their first son in Newcastle 1893.They had gone to Basford,Notts by 1896 where my Grandad Alexander James Frederick Olley was born.
Then by 1900 they had arrived in Salford & had daughter Mary Hannah.
They settled in Irlam,Manchester & spent the rest of their days there.Gt Grandad died 1923 & Gt Grandma 1942
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Hi There All,
Just came on this Norfolk site to see if I could find any of my husband's gr gr aunt's family, the EAGLINGS of Norfolk, when I saw the name BUTTERS on Kate's posting.
Hubby's gr gr aunt Sarah TOTTLE emigrated from Shipley / Saltaire, Yorkshire to America in 1880.
On the 1880 USA census she was living with an Alfred BUTTERS, his wife Anna and 4 children (all born in England). Alfred, age 27, was described as a potter and they were living in Akron, Summit County, Ohio.
Also at that address was Henry EAGLING, (also described as a potter). Sarah and Henry were married in Summit, 17th June 1880.
Just wondered if this was of any use to you Kate. :)
By the way, my husband's family, the TOTTLEs moved from Somerset to Yorkshire, to work as textile workers in Salt's mill, Saltaire in the 1870s.
Regards,
Diana
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Luzzu; many of our ancestors had to migrate to stay alive in the 19th century.
Very true, but Settlement certificates and the like were still needed for internal English movements. The various Scouts who recruited workers for the mines, docks, and factories in the North, (from all over the country, but particularly, Norfolk), arranged all that. Also the mine, dock, and factory owners iften paid for the move, and the worker had to pay back those expenses. If he died before he paid it back, his family had to pay the debt somehow.
Often such workers were paid in tokens, hence the beginnings of the Truck Acts to prevent owners from only allowing workers to use the company shop with said tokens.
In fact, one point of view is that migrant workers were not much better off for moving, although this is a big generalisation.
My Dacks went first to Newcastle, and then down from there to London.
Vicwinnan
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I would agree they were often not better off, but I think my comment still stands, i.e. they had to migrate to stay alive.It was that or often the workhouse.
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Very interesting thread. I hadn't realised just how much people were moving about the country.
My great granddad, George Tuttle from Heathersett, moved from Lowestoft to Hartlepool in 1870s; wife Sarah Ann and baby William went with him. He was a bricklayer and Hartlepool was undergoing an expansion. He then returned back to Lowestoft after about 10 yrs. William became a brickie as well, another son John became a blacksmith labourer (in Yorkshire) and my granddad James went on the trawlers at Hull. His father Edmund Tuttle was farm labourer though and his mum Elizabeth, died 86yrs in Union Work House, Swainsthorpe, Norfolk.
Regards
Anne :)
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Migration around the country has gone on for a very long time, my Luffman family (surname peculiar to southwest England) appeared in Lincolnshire in the 1790s due to the government policy of deploying militia units in different parts of the country. I suppose this and other migrations helped to mitigate the effects of inbreeding which was rampant in rural villages and probably elsewhere too.
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My family of HALL from Reepham, Hackford, Foulsham, Guestwick, Plumstead, to Holme Upon Spalding Moor, East Yorks. Robert Hall 1847 Hackford, son of Thomas Hall & Dorothy Mary Ann Juby. Farming families all way down the generations. Some other Hall from this family went to Durham area, mining. Dorothy Mary Ann Juby/Hall, Widow, went on to marry John English 1863 Reepham, members of his family and the Stearman's that married into his, also went to Durham area, mining.
My HALL line...
Thomas Hall of Guestwick - nothing found for bap/marriage/death .. wife Elizabeth
Thomas Hall of Plumstead m Jane Olly/Otty/Ottway 1770 Plumstead
Thomas Hall of Guestwick m Mary Taylor of Felthorpe (dau of John Taylor & Anna Maria Howlett) 1812 Guestwick
Thomas Hall of Foulsham m Dorothy Mary Ann Juby of Billingsford (dau of Henry Juby) 1838 Hackford
Robert Hall of Hackford m Ellen St Paul of Gilberdyke, E. Yorks 1868 Holme Upon Spalding Moor, E. Yorks
If anyone has any info relating to any of these, please contact me.
If anyone has access to the Parish Registers for Guestwick, Plumstead, Foulsham, I really do need help please, as these have not been transcribed as yet and I live in E. Yorks, so a long way to travel to look at them.
bendywendy
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Foulsham and Plumstead are on family search pilot site
https://www.familysearch.org
I have a feeling that there was an agricultural depression during the latter part of the 18th and early part of 19th centuries which coupled with the expansion of industrialisation led to a migration from East Anglia to the northern counties. I have a number of my Norwich families doing exactly the same thing!
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thank you for that info, having a looksie now..
b
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I have a feeling that there was an agricultural depression during the latter part of the 18th and early part of 19th centuries which coupled with the expansion of industrialisation led to a migration from East Anglia to the northern counties. I have a number of my Norwich families doing exactly the same thing!
Problems were due to the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. The big agricultural depression and mass migration due to the repeal of the Corn Laws took place in the latter part of the 19th century.
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Hi,
During the 19th century, many things influenced the mass movement of people, but from a family point of view, it was mainly hunger and starvation.
An inability to be able to earn a living in rural areas, due to the introduction of machinery and new methods of working; the results of disenfrancisation from the land due to the Enclosure Acts; various Wars; disease outbreaks; failed harvests; and the Repeal of the Corn Laws, all played their part in creating more than one agricultural depression.
There was not just one single reason.
Vicwinann
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Significant that we still have these problems with us today. Will we never learn from history?
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My mothers ancestors Charles Bruton Meachen and wife Racheal Meachen moved to Sheffield after 1861 census we have no idea why or what he done up there but he was a Market Gardener when in Norfolk, their first child Walter Whitred Meachen was born in Sheffield in 1868 there was also a daughter born in Sheffield she was Elizabeth Bruton Meachen born and died in the march qtr of 1870 ?...what area we have no idea as we gathered this info from Census returns, the family came back to Norwich before 1871 as they appear on that census in Norwich 1871, So if anybody can throw any light on this family in Sheffield between 1866 - 1871 ( we know Charles married Racheal in 1866 in Norwich ) it would be very much appreciated,....Was there another Meachen family up there?
Regards Fred
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Difficult as he was not there (Sheffield) for the 1871 census. Was he still a market gardener in 1881? One possibility is that he went to find work in the steel industry due to the agrticultrual depression,and didn't like the place, or 2) he went there as gardener to a wealthy family, either for a fixed term contract or again didn't like the area and returned to Norfolk. I would suggest you get Elizabeth's birth certificate as this should give some more details to help crack the problem.
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Hi there
You asked if Hunslet, Leeds was a hub for the industrial revolution, in a way the answer is Yes.
Hunslet was a village but of course is just one part of Leeds now. In the 1850's there were 30 factories, pottery factories, and a big chemical factory in Hunslet. So lots of work. Thats apart from the fact Hunslet, was only a mile away from the city centre, where they had barges arriving on the River Aire to take wool to other areas of Leeds. So there was lots of work around.
My Routledge came from Wigton, Cumbria to work in Leeds. Unfortunately for alot of the new people the diseases of the time was Cholera and typoid which spread like wildfire around the terraced housing in Leeds.
Part of the variety of life having new people mixing in the gene pool lol.
We are all the better for it.
regards Sandymc
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Thanks for that bit of info Redroger, Yes he was a market gardener before he left Norfolk and when he returned and up until his death in 1911, we thought maybe there were other family members up there, will have to try a bit more research this end.
Regards Fred
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Sheffield FHS might be able to help, why not give them a try?