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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: Brant81uk on Wednesday 19 May 10 21:53 BST (UK)
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Where is the best place to find your Coat of Arms and family Crests? Been meaning to ask that question for a while.
Thanks
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Hi Brant
There's the College of Arms here
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/
or have you seen a stand at a show selling a coat of arms for your surname?
They are 2 completely different things.
Dawn
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Where is the best place to find your Coat of Arms and family Crests? Been meaning to ask that question for a while.
Thanks
What makes you think that you have a coat of arms? They belong to individuals not families or surnames. Don't fall for the commercial hype of these companies trying to sell you someone else's coat of arms.
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Hi Dawn,
I have never seen a coat of arms for Brant so was wondering if there my family name had one? or even some kinf of Crest?
I worked at Much Marcle Church in Herefordshire and the Kyrle family had there Coat of Arms on the Staind glass windows, so was thinking if my name had one also.
Thanks for the link.
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There is a crest for a Brant in Fairbairn's Crests which is a golden lion passant. No other details are shown.
Note that this is the description of the crest which sits on top of the helmet in a coat of arms. This proves that there was a Brant somewhere in the UK who had a coat of arms.
David
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Thanks David,
I have no idea what or how Coats of Arms came to be. So thank you for clearing that up for me. Thats why I thought I would ask as I don't know or have a clue.
So people with Coats of Arms, were they usually military?
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Originally Coats of Arms belonged to knights and peers and were displayed on their shields during jousting with the crests worn on their helmets.
Anyone who is knighted is usually granted a coat of arms and many gentlemen also have them. Once a member of a family has been granted a coat of arms it is passed down through the eldest sons although other sons can apply to the College of Arms for a slightly different coat of arms. In theory anyone can apply to them for their own coat of arms.
There are strict rules as to how a shield is made up and understanding the shield, the crest, and the type of helmet reveals a lot of information about the hereditary of the the individual.
You really need to borow a book from the library to understand what is a complicated subject.
David
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Further to what David's said, usually if you aren't aware of a coat of arms being granted to an individual in your family, then it's more than likely that your particular family was never granted arms as it's not the sort of thing that's completely forgotten.
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Hi Temic,
My grandad broke ties with his dad when he was only 16 in the 40's. We only know what we know about the Brant family from the research I have done through Ancestry etc.
We never knew my Grandad had Aunties or that his dad was 1 of about 10 children.
So Coats of Arms is something I wouldn't know unless I can find living cousins who can possibly answer these questions for me...:)
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This link, giving an explanation of the Brant name, may be of interest
http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=brant
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Even if it does appears that you do have a crest don't take it at face value. There are a few odd bits of Georgian silver in my OH's family with what appears to be the family crest on them. It turns out the family have no entitlement to them and just "borrowed" them - much as someone has a set of placemats with "their" coat of arms on them today.
BTW - you can really upset your new in laws by pointing this out to them ;D
Carole
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lol @ Carole...I know nothing about Coat of Arms of what the stood for until I wrote this thread. And you all have helped me kind of understand how and why peple got them.
I would like to think the Brants had one as do we all...I will keep digging and see what I can find.
;D
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Even if it does appears that you do have a crest don't take it at face value.
I suppose the classic case is Sophie Rhys Jones - when she married Prince Edward, it was discovered that her father's coat of arms turned out not to be registered (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/347718.stm) at the College of Arms.
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Burke's General armory does list an entry for the surname Brant. However, it is at the "unreliable" end of the entries since it just lists the surname and the blazon. There is no geographical or genealogical information to support it.
Reitstap does list a number of entries but they are either from Poland or the Low Countries.
Surprisingly, to me at least, that the Burke's entry is not used by the various heraldry bucket shops. They seem to prefer either a Polish set of Arms or one I have not yet identified. It could well be one of the many variations of spelling - Brant, Brandt, Brent etc.
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You also need to be aware that Burke's published coats of arms without verifying them and so contains numerous arms which were adopted without any entitlement rather than granted.
David
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Reading the 'Coats of Arms' topic, I was very pleased to note that a warning on obtaining these ARMS and Associations was made quite clear where outlay for same is expected. When our Daughter died leaving a young Son behind, we looked into buying a named 'Star' for him but, checked with the Astonomical - Society first who made it clear we were not buying etc., the Stars are Registered with them and have designated numbers applying which cannot be purchased/renamed etc. The Commercial aspect is quite misleading and should be ignored! So, we look to All the Stars and see her there in any one we choose for ourselves now and are very happy with that! I have added a Caveat to all my Family-Tree profilings to say that any Heraldic-Device seen is to explain Emblazoning as such alone and, never to be taken as 'OURS', my Family are very happy to note this point. Your Boards are valued for such information, keep it coming please!
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Cautionary update on those 'Coats of Arms': English Heraldry is quite without any Let and any copying of these is strictly forbidden and rarely allowed in any case! Despite the IRISH Coats originating with that Lord Lyon, the Irish actively encourage a 'Let of Copy' provided it adheres to strict rules, eg: to show an associated Name but, it must carry an acknowledgement to say such. Scots Law again allows the Crest to be 'used freely', so long as it is 'Carried within a Belt' thus signifying 'CLANSHIP' alone for the want of a better word and Fielty is then assumed but, never for Commercial gain or mislead! The Welsh too have a leaning to Let but as always, all these are rigidly guarded in any Let and that Due acknowledgement must be made very clear in statement of why it appears! Taken to illustrate example of Emblazoning, it probably be acceptable, making it very clear that is the case and not Assuming or Usurping as the Law would have it! These are only rough guidlines but, I hope this helps others who do considering a borrowing? Never publish these without enquiring of Holders themselves!
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I am proud to display the Conway family one below my username!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Right William, as we all are so in seeing our Family connections or associations. I'm not being critical in this but if the Emblazon is not indeed yours by right, there is always the chance that the actual owner or theirs might take umbridge and litigate, that was my only concern in posting the rough guide of previous. Even then it may not really hold water?
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It is a bit of a grey area and I suppose it depends on "intent". It would be very bad form to display the Arms of someone else as your own. A colleague of mine had to take a prominent professional genealogical company to task for displaying his Arms in their promotional literature & website without permission.
Displaying them as a sign of putative kinship might be viewed in a different light. Especially if the image is one produced by one of those heraldic "bucket shops". That said, I would take a very dim view of someone "borrowing" my Arms - as in my avatar.