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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: hiraeth on Wednesday 23 June 10 09:03 BST (UK)
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I'm having trouble getting started on my late F-I-L's tree.
Kenneth Coles was born October 25, 1922 at Mothers Hospital Clapton. On the birth certificate his father is listed as William George Coles and mother Evelyn Faith Coles formerly Snare, address 53 Park Grove Road Leytonstone. Father's occupation was Carpenter Labour, the mother reported the birth which was reg at Hackney. It is the only birth I found surname Coles mmn Snare.
I have found the birth of an Eveline Faith SNAIR Jun Q 1889 reg Romford and she appears on the 1891 and 1901 census. There is a birth reg Hackney in 1889 for a William George H. Coles who is the most likely prospect for Kenneth's father but the problem is that I haven't been able to locate a marriage for the parents Coles/Snare to confirm his grandfather's name. One did came up for an Evelyn Faith Snare in 1909 to a Penrose Taylor Betts reg Orsett.
From freeBMD it appears there were several BETTS children with mmn Snare between 1912 and 1918 reg Orsett and Tendring. I won't name them in case some are still alive. Penrose T Betts born in 1888 did not pass away until 1973. It therefore looks that there may not have been a Coles/Snare or Coles/Betts marriage at all.
However there is another birth Mar Q 1924 at West Ham for a male BETTS with mmn Snare. So what happened? Did Evelyn leave her husband, have a child with William and then go back to her husband? and more importantly how do I find the correct BMD for William George Coles w/out a marriage?
Have I missed something obvious? Any suggestions?
thx
Heather
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Hi, Heather PM'd you.
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Hi, Heather PM'd you.
Does this mean the problem is entirely solved?
How is anyone to know?
Please post responses on the thread where they don't infringe our privacy policy - many thanks.
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots
Sorry for the delay in responding. No my problem is not solved. Angelfish58 has sent me information relative to the 1911 census. The information confirms that Evelyn Faith Snare did marry Penrose Betts as she appears as Evelyn Faith Betts with her family in 1911. Penrose was a seaman on a ship.
Sadly I am no closer to identifying William George Coles, father of Kenneth, or a possible divorce or marriage for Kenneth's parents as Coles/Betts or Coles/Snare.
Heather
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What people were shown as entitled to vote at the 1922 usual address (53 Park Grove Road Leytonstone)?
Pauline
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Hi Heather
Have you seen the marriage of Penrose T Betts and Harriett Webb in 1935
Tonbridge volume 2a page 2493
Morgan :)
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What people were shown as entitled to vote at the 1922 usual address (53 Park Grove Road Leytonstone)?
Pauline
Hello Pauline
Do you know if that information is available online? I'm in Canada.
Heather
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Hi Morgan
Thank you - I did see what looks to be Penrose's second marriage.
Heather
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Hi Heather,
Penrose and Evelyn betts are my husbands Great Grandparents. :)
Penrose married Evelyn Snare 1909 Orsett.
From the family info we have Penrose and Evelyn seperated and Evelyn had 2 other children with William george Coles one of them being kenneth.
Unfortunately, we haven't been able to find any information about William george Coles.
Kelly.
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From the family info we have Penrose and Evelyn seperated and Evelyn had 2 other children with William george Coles one of them being kenneth.
Hi Kelly
Small world :) This info most likely means there was no Coles/Snare marriage. Apparently both of them died when Kenneth was quite young. If I discover any more of the story I will post on this thread.
Thanks for posting.
Heather.
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Hi All,
William George (Henry) Coles was my great grandfather. I am so pleased to have found this information, as the only information I have on him was that he disappeared after my dad's aunt was born, never to be seen again.
Only a few years ago, I found his grave and obtained a copy of his death certificate.
Just yesterday I discovered him on 1939 register, but the other records were closed. I also found him on the electoral roll for 1939 (with his mother, and sister) and for the first time the mention of Evelyn Faith. If anyone is still interested, please post back.
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William George Coles died in 1950s
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Hi Jek248
Evelyn was my husbands Great Grandmother. Evelyns first husband was his Great Grandfather.
I would be interested to know where Evelyn and George were living in 1939.
Kind regards,
Kelly
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Hi Jek248
Evelyn was my husbands Great Grandmother. Evelyns first husband was his Great Grandfather.
I would be interested to know where Evelyn and George were living in 1939.
Kind regards,
Kelly
Kelly, According to the 1939 Register (completed at the start of WW2) which has just been released WGH (as I shall call him) was living in Hornchurch. He was buried in Hornchurch, but I cannot tell who he is living with as the other records are closed. :-\
According to the electoral roll for 1939 (1st quarter) he was living with his mother, Jane Louisa, one of his sister's, Elizabeth May Mould, and Evelyn in Grace Street, Bromley-by-Bow, London
I have no information between for the period 1922 and 1939.
His marriage to Rose Florence Phillips in 1912 produced three children: my grandfather, William George Charles (1913 - Poplar), Lilian Frances (1918 - Tendring) and Rose Ethel (June 1920 - in Tendring).
Something else of note, I see from Heather's original post that her father-in-law, Kenneth was born in 1922 in the Mother's Hospital in Clapton. My father informs me that this hospital was run by the Salvation Army for ladies without husbands! He knows this because, our branch of the family has some connection with the Salvation Army.
Heather also mentions that Kenneth believed his parents died when he was young, but WGH died in 1953. Did he do another disappearing act?
Jo
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Hi Jo
Thank you for your reply.
When Evelyn and George met they was both still married, so they never actually married each other.
I did find some newspaper records for Evelyn and George, i will find the information for you and let you know.
I know Evelyn emigrated to Australia, and she died in the 1960's. Two of Evelyn's sons also emigrated to Australia as well. Evelyn met a Thomas Harper in Australia and they lived as husband and wife. I am not sure if they did actually marry because Evelyn was still married to her first husband.
Thank you for the 1939 information
Kelly
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Penrose Taylor Betts, born on 6 December 1887, is likely the son of Jemima Coomber from near Maidstone, Kent. Penrose was living with Arthur Richard Betts and Hilda Dora Betts, age 11, at Naylor's boarding house in Tovil according to 1901 census. Hilda was Arthur's daughter by marriage to Jemima Coomber in 1882 and Penrose is listed as adopted.
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Hi Brunswick,
Isn't it interesting what info. can pop up unexpectedly ;)
It's always good when "Posters" give a lot of info. as it's helpful to others researching the same lines.
For some unknown reason, I see many posters relating to only the person they're interested in with no background info. such as parents/wife/husband/children/maiden names/dates/places etc.
The more info. they post, the more likely a connection as this has proved....original post from over 6 yrs ago 8)
Annie
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Penrose Taylor Betts, born on 6 December 1887, is likely the son of Jemima Coomber from near Maidstone, Kent. Penrose was living with Arthur Richard Betts and Hilda Dora Betts, age 11, at Naylor's boarding house in Tovil according to 1901 census. Hilda was Arthur's daughter by marriage to Jemima Coomber in 1882 and Penrose is listed as adopted.
Penrose Taylor Betts is the son of Mary Elizabeth Betts. Mary Elizabeth was the sister of Arthur Richard Betts.
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Kelly - Thanks for the information. Arthur Richard Betts is my great great grandfather on my mother's side - Les Fyffe, New Brunswick, Canada.
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Kelly - Thanks for the information. Arthur Richard Betts is my great great grandfather on my mother's side - Les Fyffe, New Brunswick, Canada.
You're welcome.
Penrose Betts is my husbands Great Grandfather.
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Kelly - I should have said that Arthur Richard Betts was my great grandfather on my mother's side. Arthur's daughter Hilda Dora Betts was my grandmother. Her daughter Hilda Mabel Smith married my father Samuel Fyffe in London during the War. I remember when grandmother Hilda Dora visited us in New Brunswick when we were small children. In 1901 Hilda Dora, age 11, and Penrose (adopted) were staying together in a boarding house in Tovil with their father Arthur Richard Betts.
I believe that makes your husband and myself third cousins once removed. From an adoption point of view, Penrose would be my great uncle.