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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: kbingy on Tuesday 22 June 10 13:33 BST (UK)
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Any info on William Barclay who married Isabella Morton in Fife, settled later in Belfast. Had children Matilda and John. Also John Morton and Janet Grieve who married in Perth 1862? Thanks all.
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dates?
Diddy
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there is a tree on A* for John Morton /Janet Grieve but the marriage date doesn't match. do you have birth dates for all names given please?
Diddy
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The marriage of John Morton and Janet Grieve is listed in IGI (extracted) 1862 Fife- the scanned image of the marriage with complete details should be available from Scotland's People website.
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Hi, John Morton born c.1839, Fife. Janet Grieve b. 1837, St. Andrews. Their daughter Isabella, b. 1869, married William Barclay. This is where I'm coming unstuck. Can only find 1 listing in Scotland for Morton/Barclay wedding in or around 1890s, but the groom is listed as Charles Wilkie Barclay ???
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Hi kbingy
Have you confirmed Isabella's maiden name from either of the children's birth certs who show as born in Belfast in 1901 www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003992935/
Bella shows on this entry as born c. 1875/6. Have you managed to find the family in the 1911 Irish census (assuming they were still in Ireland at this point)?
How have you worked back to the family of John Morton and Janet Grieve? Their daughter Isabella shows as born in 1869 as you have.
Monica
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Hi, Isabella's maiden name was Morton, as shown on her daughter's birth cert. The family is present on 1901 Irish census (her, 24, husband William, 30 daughter Matilda, 6 and son John, 2). On the 1911 Irish census I can find no trace of them at all.
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IGI (www.familysearch.org) has 2 extracted birth records for Isabella Elder Morton- one 28 Dec.1867 and other 3 Mar.1869 (Dunfermline, Fife) with same parents- most likely that the one born 1867 died young and they used the same names for another born 1869. Scotland's People will have birth certificates (and death also).
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:-\ Not convinced Aghadowey that we are on the trail of the correct Isabella Morton unfortunately with the Isabella born to John and Janet (Grieve) in 1869 in Dunfermline.
kbingy, did you by chance look at the actual marriage entry for the Charles Wilkie Barclay/Isabella Morton entry on SP to confirm her parents' names?
From general searches, this looks to be a likely entry for Charles Wilkie Barclay on IGI:
CHARLES WILKIE BARCLAY Birth: 26 MAY 1869 Fossoway And Tulliebole, Kinross
Parents: DAVID BARCLAY and MARGARET WILKIE
Jumping to the 1901 census, I think this might be Charles and Isabella in Scotland (a messy transcription entry, the original image on SP should be clearer):
Charles Barclay 31, shepherd b. Kinross
Isabella Barclay 52 (age down wrong) b. Dunfermline
James Barclay 2, daughter (likely Janet and age probably also mis transcribed?)
David Barclay 5
John Barclay 3
Charle Barclay 1
Address: Little Raith Cottage, Auchterderran, Fife
Monica
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I'm not convince yet either, Monica, but just posting the details I found ;)
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Just looking at Irish marriages....
There is an entry for a William Barclay, 1st Qrt 1893 in Belfast, also a different entry for an Isabella Morton.
The references are the same for each entry:
Film No. 101257/ Vol. No. 1/ Page No. 410/ Digital Folder No. 4179389
Only the image entry no's are different: 9 for William and 37 for Isabella
Aghadowey, I'm lost with the Irish indexes :P From this info, do you think these two are connected!
Monica
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The details that need to match are year/quarter, registration district, volume and page numbers (image #, etc. are LDS references).
Without getting the certificate you can't be sure the two people were married to each other but they do appear on the same page so there's a good chance.
See here for details on Irish marriage certificates and how to order them-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,383526.0.html
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Checking another database index shows that-
William Barclay married 1893 Ellen ? (Antrim)
William Barclay married 1892 Isabella ? (Down)
and
Isabella Morton married 1892 William ? (Down).
Re-checking the civil index shows two possibilites for the couple-
Isabella Morton
Apr./June 1893 volume 1 page 423
Jan./Mar. 1893 volume 1 page 410
William Barclay- same details for both items
Wonder if a first ceremony wasn't valid and for some reason it was re-entered in the register.
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
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Certainly strong possibilites to follow up there :)
Pity they are hidding in the 1911 census (assume in Ireland, but you never know, maybe Scotland that is not yet been released).
kbingy, is it your tree for Matilda on Ancestry? From that Matilda is showing as having married in Belfast in 1913. Do you have the cert? If so, what did it say about her father William, did he still show as a joiner by trade, alive/deceased?
Monica
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Hi all, thanks for the help. Matilda married Thomas Benson on June 3rd 1911. Her father is listed as William Barclay, joiner, on the m cert. In 1901 Irish census he is a "joiner on strike". Can't find any of them in 1911.
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If the marriage for Matilda was 1911, then the family you would think would have been in Belfast then.
Were there any family names as witnesses on the cert? What was the address showing for Matilda, maybe someone knowing how this is indexed on the census can narrow down the search for them on the census (taken some months earlier on 2 April).
Monica
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Hi, the witnesses were Maggie Benson and James Foulis or Fowlis. On the m cert both Thomas and Matilda are living at 121 Sandy Row. There appears to be no connection to the family at this address though, may have been a boarding house of some kind? Isabella and William were both born in Scotland according to the 1901 census, they seem to have disappeared after that, even the son John. A* has army records for a John Barclay of the same age but not sure if it is the same one.
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I did have a look for military records for brother John. The one I think you are referring to from pension records shows as born in Oban Argyll in 1899 (the service records are hard to read!).
Monica
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If Thomas and Matilda gave the same address for the marriage and it's a boarding house you might need to consider the possibility that they just went to Belfast to get married and weren't living there a few months earlier.
I've been searching the 1911 census for the Barclay family (with and without surname) using all sorts of combinations but can't find any of them. Perhaps 1911 Scottish census will reveal the answer to where they were in 1911.
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Thanks, how would I go about getting info from the 1911 Scottish census?
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You have to wait until it's released in 2011.
http://www.1911census.org.uk/scotland.htm
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Think i've been barking up the wrong tree with this one! Just got hold of William and Isabella's m cert. They were married in Belfast in 1893. His father is named as John Barclay, a mason. Her father is William Morton, also a mason. The witnesses were Andrew Given and Harriett Blair.