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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: alisonjar on Monday 21 June 10 18:37 BST (UK)

Title: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Monday 21 June 10 18:37 BST (UK)
Some of my adopted sister's family appeared to have lived (and born) in Australia.
Her great grandmother Eileen Davies (b.1893) along with 6 children:  Herma, aged 12; Ellis, aged 8; Marjorie, aged 6, Eilleen, aged 5; Mary, aged 4 and Margaret Alice, aged 2 (sister's grandmother), arrived in Plymouth, England on24th February 1927 on the ship 'Maloja' from Melbourne, Australia.
The father did not sail with them and I wondered if he stayed in Australia, died there or sailed to England at a later date, but can find no record of him.
He was George (Tankersley?) Davies, born about 1890. 

I wonder if anyone could tell me how to find him and to see if the children were born in Australia and where they lived.   I would be so grateful.
Thank you

Ali
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 21 June 10 22:53 BST (UK)
Hi Ali,

Could be interesting to note a George Tankesley DAVIES born 31 Aug 1929 died 1982 Slough Bucks 19 0504

Wondering if this could be a son born in UK. Were the family in Bucks?

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 21 June 10 23:01 BST (UK)

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/090i/   

1924 Electoral Roll

19 Young Street Kew

Herman George Torkenley DAVIES - Advertising Expert
Eileen Frances Elizabeth DAVIES - Home Duties

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 21 June 10 23:20 BST (UK)
Departing Southampton 7 Feb 1947 aboard the ASTURIAS ticketed to Melbourne

DAVIES Mr H G T 65 Publicity Manager (Aspro Ltd) address in UK Downs Place Windsor Berkshire country of last permanent residence British Possessions intended permanent residence in Australia then UK
DAVIES Mrs E F E 54

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 21 June 10 23:45 BST (UK)
There was apparently a first wife in NZ

Herman George Tankerlesly DAVIES = Bollettie Mary RASMUSSEN 1906/2413

there is a birth in 1909 for Walter Hansen 1909/5388 parents Herman George Ian Kersley and Vollett Mary

and Herman's birth in NZ

Herman George Tankersley DAVIES 1881/8934 parents Walter and Annie Elizabeth

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/

Cheers Kris  :)

Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Monday 21 June 10 23:51 BST (UK)
Marriage in Victoria

DAVIES Herman George Tankersly
GOLDBERG Eileen
1919  Reg#5031

PM - info possible living person.

A bit more...Page 106
http://www.rootschat.com/links/090j/

Cando
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 22 June 10 00:16 BST (UK)
Cando your link is the same one I posted in reply 2

this section of the book gives a bit more info on the rushed departure from NZ after a failed business.

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/090k/   

He is mentioned as George DAVIES in other articles re the history of Aspirin as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aspirin

Cheers Kris  :)

Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Tuesday 22 June 10 00:55 BST (UK)
Possible birth - only Eileen GOLDB*RG b. 1893 on Vic indexes.

GOLDBURG Bessie Eileen
Father Nicholas Thomas  Mother Annie GAYNOR
At Melbourne  1893  Reg#5781

Marriage of parents

GOLDBURG Nicholas Thomas born Ireland
GAYNOR Annie born St Kilda
1888  Reg#3135

and siblings

Added later -
*Birth
GOLDBURY Annie May
Father Nicholas Thomas   Mother Annie GAYNOR
At Benalla  1889  Reg#9673

Death
GOLDBURG Annie May
Father Nicholas Thomas  Mother Annie GAYNOR
25 days   At Benalla  1889  Reg#6183

Birth
GOLDBURG William Albert
Father Nicholas Thos  Mother Annie Marie GAYNOR
At Armadale  1895  Reg#221

Birth
GOLDBURG Ernest
Father Thomas  Mother Annie GAINER
At Carlton 1900  Reg#17238

Death
GOLDBURG Ernest John
Father Goldburg Nicholas Thomas  Mother Annie GAYNER
At Hotham West   1900  Reg#13244


Cheers
Cando

Edit to add *birth reg.




Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 22 June 10 01:04 BST (UK)
Doesn't seem to be her Cando. She is consistant with her Christian names

Eileen Frances E DAVIES died Windsor Berkshire 1978 0759 dob 3 Oct 1892

Herman G T DAVIES died Windsor 1954 6a 174. He was aged 72

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 22 June 10 01:39 BST (UK)
There is an Eileen on the 1914 electoral roll

71 Punt Road St Kilda

GOLDBERG Alice - Home Duties
GOLDBERG Eileen - Sales Woman

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Tuesday 22 June 10 01:43 BST (UK)
The marriage index notes the bride's name as Eileen.   The marriage certificate would confirm whether or not this is the correct person whose possible birth details I have posted.

In Victoria you can purchase online an image of certificates [AUD $17.50] and immediately download from
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

The marriage certificate details the ages and places of birth of both the bride and groom and the names of their parents, including the mothers' maiden names.  It should also detail if George was a widower or divorced.  I have checked the Divorce Index for Victoria to 1919 and there is no mention of his name.  Perhaps make a request on the New Zealand board to see if they can help you with this.

Link to information on all Victorian certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html

I should have mentioned that birth records available in Victoria do not extend post 1920.

Cheers
Cando

Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Tuesday 22 June 10 02:03 BST (UK)
This George Herman DAVIES born c1881.

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5430976?searchTerm=george+herman+davies

and

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15571096?searchTerm=george+herman+davies

and there are a few more snippets
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home

Cando
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Tuesday 22 June 10 03:59 BST (UK)
Australian Electoral Roll
1914 
GOLDBERG Alice 47 Robe Street, St Kilda  HD
GOLDBERG Alice 71 Punt Road, St Kilda  HD
GOLDBERG Clarence  47 Robe Street, St Kilda  Insurance Agent
GOLDBERG Eileen 71 Punt Road, St Kilda  Saleswoman

1919
GOLDBERG Alice 16 Robe Street, St Kilda  HD
GOLBBERG Clarence 16 Robe Street, St  Kilda  Theatre employee

Marriage
GOLDBERG Clarence
COLLINS Alice
1913  Reg#

and the birth of their only child
GOLDBERG Clarence Francis
Father Clarence  Mother Alice COLLINS
at Prahran  1913  Reg#15821

There are only two deaths for an Alice GOLDBERG, the one above who is registered at birth and death with given names Alice Maud, and another who was b. 1892.  A Clarence GOLDBERG died in 1920 at Prahran.  There is only one other death for a Clarence GOLDBERG on the indexes - their son in 1960.  I would suggest that Eileen was living with Clarence and Alice in 1914 and perhaps they had moved houses in the period - hence the two addresses for Alice

Only the marriage certificate will give you the information as to whether or not Eileen was born to parents Nicholas Thomas GOLDB*RG and Annie GAYNOR. 

Cheers
Cando

Edit correct info



Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 22 June 10 04:05 BST (UK)
Yes Alice and Clarence do not appear to be the same Alice as the one with Eileen in 1814. There are newspaper announcements for them also. I could not find this Alice again. Was hoping there may have been a marriage or  death for her.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: ennael on Tuesday 22 June 10 04:25 BST (UK)
This may be helpful ( or not) in clarifying who Alice is.
Going back to William Albert previously mentioned in Candos' post as a possible sibling to Eileen,
there is a digitised ww1 service record online at www.naa.gov.au.
In it he gives his sister Alice as next of kin and indicates both parents are deceased, this Alice gives an address ,"Modern Manufacturing Coy, Coloseum Arcade, Chapel St ,Prahan", she also calls herself 'Alethia'.
Also this gentleman changed his surname to "GOLDIE"

Leanne
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 22 June 10 04:51 BST (UK)
MMM Althea GOLDBERG is also listed at 71 Punt Rd (Windsor where Alice and Eileen are St Kilda) Home Duties. Its on a different page.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Tuesday 22 June 10 04:53 BST (UK)
Ah...there were two births to Nicholas Thomas and Annie GAYNOR of an Annie May with the first dying in 1889 at 25 days ....now is the following reg Alice, Alethia?

Birth
GOLDBERG Annie May
Father Nicholas Thomas  Mother Annie GAYNOR
At Carlton  1898  Reg#25015

I cant find death registrations for Nicholas Thomas GOLDB*RG or his wife Annie on the Vic indexes.  Perhaps they changed their names as well ::)

According to the birth indexes Nicholas Thomas GOLDBURG was born at Benalla in 1865 Reg#848, with parents Thomas and Mary Ann MADDACK/MADDOCK.  This couple did not marry in Victoria so perhaps they emigrated from Ireland, and that may explain the place of birth on Nicholas's marriage cert.

Cando

Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 22 June 10 05:07 BST (UK)
I don't think that could be Althea or Alice as this  Annie was only 16 in 1914 so would not have been on the Electoral Roll.  :-\

I do hope Ali is able tp purchase the cert and put us all out of our misery.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Tuesday 22 June 10 05:10 BST (UK)
And another birth with transcription error  ::)-
  
Birth
GALDBURG Alice Maud
Father Nicholas Thomas  Mother Annie GAYNOR
1890  Reg#20990

Marriage
GOLDBERG Alethia Maud
HEDLEY Alex Francis
1926  Reg#1164

and death

HEDLEY Alitha
Father Goldberg Nicholas  Mother Annie  GAYNOR
At Armadale  74 years  1965  Reg#14421

I think it is Eileen's family however only the marriage cert will help.  I need a cup of tea and a lie down...but the garden is calling :P

Cando
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 22 June 10 05:24 BST (UK)
Certainly seems more like it Cando the more we discover. Perhaps a precedent for switching names in the family Alice Maud becomes Alethia Maud and Bessie Eileen possibly becomes Eileen Frances Elizabeth.

I need to do something constructive too before I run out of day.  ::)

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Tuesday 22 June 10 07:51 BST (UK)
Birth
HEDLEY Alex Francis Gerald
Father George Nicholas  Mother Kath Ettaway WHITLEY
At Bendigo  1898  Reg#24172

Puzzled as I couldn't find Alithea Maud with husband on the electoral rolls. Only a man of the same name but with a Jean HEDLEY at the same address...

Marriages
HEDLEY Alexander Francis Gerald
SCRIVENER Laurel Voldemir
1924  Reg#11729

HEDLEY Alexander Francis
CAMERON Jean
1936  Reg#15960

1st wife died in 1924 at Bendigo.

Alexander F G was on the electoral rolls as a prospector to 1954.

He died in NSW
33457/1962     
HEDLEY  Alexander Francis G
Father George Nicholas  Mother Kathleen
District Lismore.   

Cando
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: jorose on Tuesday 22 June 10 11:10 BST (UK)
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ - search here to see the divorce in 1916. He's listed as Davies, Herman George Tankerlesly

info on the divorce from nz papers:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZTR19160527.2.29.7&srpos=2&e=-------10--1----0Bollettie-all
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZTR19160603.2.26.34&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----0Bollettie-all

Note that the "Mary Moody" mentioned here is probably the same as mentioned in the Australian papers.

Addresses for Bollettie:
http://caversham.otago.ac.nz/electors/erid.php?erkey=15355
She remarried in 1919 to Thomas Edgar Hobbs (nz bmd site).
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Tuesday 22 June 10 12:21 BST (UK)
Quote
Herma, aged 12; Ellis, aged 8; Marjorie, aged 6, Eilleen, aged 5; Mary, aged 4 and Margaret Alice 2,

It would appear that Mary MOODIE/MOODY is the mother of Herma and Ellis.  I wondered what happened to her?

Births in Victoria
MOODIE Ellis Moodie
Father not recorded  Mother Mary Sinclair MOODIE
At Prahran 1918  Reg#6057

DAVIES Ellis Moodie
Father Herman George Tankersley  Mother Mary Sinclair MOODIE
At Prahran  1918  Reg#6057

Marjorie  is registered on the Vic birth index with George and Eileen as parents.

George and Mary moved to Melbourne after George was released from prison in NSW as he received a 2 year term with hard labour in Jan 1915.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15571229?searchTerm=herman+george+davies

So when he blew into the offices of the Nicholas's 'on a wet and wind swept autumn evening in 1917' he would have only been out of prison a couple of months.

Cando




Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Tuesday 22 June 10 18:17 BST (UK)
Hi there everyone.  I am overwhelmed and oh so impressed.   I have just flicked quickly through all your replies and will now have to spend a lot of time digesting all this information.  No wonder I couldnt find Herman G T Davies if he was born in NZ, he certainly seemed to get around.
Thank you all again.  Now to read and record and get my head around all this before contacting my sister and bringiing her up to date.
Thank you all again and I will reply later.
Ali x
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Tuesday 22 June 10 18:29 BST (UK)
Having read a little more:
1. I am sorry to have worn you all out
2. What an interesting family my sister has, I am so jealous.
3. I am going to need some more help I am sure so hang on in there.

Ali xxx
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Tuesday 22 June 10 20:28 BST (UK)
Well, Herman was quite the cad!  Fascinating.
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Tuesday 22 June 10 21:49 BST (UK)
Is there any record of when Herman came back to UK?
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Wednesday 23 June 10 01:23 BST (UK)
Noticed this record

Arriving Plymouth May 1935 on the STRATHNEVER from Marseille
DAVIES Eileen Frances Elizabeth Home duties, 42 years  Proposed address in UK  Down Place, Windsor, Berks
Country of last permanent residence England
Country of intended permanent residence England.

Quote
Departing Southampton 7 Feb 1947 aboard the ASTURIAS ticketed to Melbourne

DAVIES Mr H G T 65 Publicity Manager (Aspro Ltd) address in UK Downs Place Windsor Berkshire country of last permanent residence British Possessions intended permanent residence in Australia then UK
DAVIES Mrs E F E 54
Kris

Their stay in Aus was quite short as -

Arriving Southampton, 31 July 1947 on the ASTURIAS from Melbourne

DAVIES Eileen 54  Housewife
DAVIES George  56  Publicity
Proposed address in UK -  Down Place, Windsor
Country of last permanent residence  England
County of intended permanent resident England.

Perhaps this was one of his last trips as he died 1954.

Is it possible to search the old electoral rolls in Berkshire to find out when they became residents?

Cando
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Wednesday 23 June 10 01:49 BST (UK)
Also another birth to Annie GAYNOR, mother of Eileen, but before her marriage to Nicholas Thomas GOLDB*RG. 
 
Birth
GAYNOR Annie May
Father              Mother Annie GAYNOR
At Carlton  1887   Reg#26833

and death
GAYNOR Annie May
Father Unknown  Mother Annie GAYNOR
2 Months  at Fitzroy  Reg#1446

Cando

Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Wednesday 23 June 10 19:41 BST (UK)
Thank you again. 
Herman did very well for himself in the end - Down Place - beautiful and a very affluent area.
I dont know how to search electoral rolls but will find out.
Do you know where Herman's father William was born and lived or tell me how to find out?
Thank you again.

Ali
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Thursday 24 June 10 00:16 BST (UK)
Ali you can search here
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

If you need help with his family in NZ I would suggest you post a request on the NZ Board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,299.0.html
and link this post to save duplicate searching.

Cheers and good luck
Cando
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Friday 25 June 10 17:43 BST (UK)
Thank you again.

I have sent for the marriage certificate for Herman Davies and Eileen Goldberg.  We will see.......................................
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Saturday 03 July 10 19:04 BST (UK)
I am most impressed - marriage details arrived today.
Eileen Goldberg's parents WERE Thomas Goldberg (dropped the Nicholas I assume), traveller and Annie Goldberg nee Gaynor.  So your information was correct.
Thank you so much again.
Ali
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: cando on Sunday 04 July 10 00:57 BST (UK)
Thank you Ali for posting the information from their marriage certificate.  Good to know that you have the correct details.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: anonyme3 on Friday 06 August 10 18:34 BST (UK)
Hello Alison, I happened upon this by chance today, it is familiar to me, I am a member of the family
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Friday 06 August 10 20:17 BST (UK)
Hello.
Would you mind me knowing how you are related to the family.
Any information you pass on to me will remain confindential if you wish.
I cannot give you my private email address on this site, however you could send me a private message on this site if you prefer.

Alison.
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: anonyme3 on Friday 06 August 10 21:35 BST (UK)
I am the fifth daughter of Margaret Alice Sawyer (nee Davies) and could more than probably be your adopted sister's natural mother.

I feel happy to give this information openly as those who have contributed to your search have shown such genuine interest.
 
I cannot give you my private e-mail address either and would have to send three messages before I send confidentially on this site but you could send to me now you know who I am.
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Saturday 07 August 10 08:32 BST (UK)
Hi
I am so sorry if this has come as an unexpected surprise.  It's hard to know what to say to be honest. My sister has been talking for years about contacting her natural mother and asking for my involvement.  She has not been ready to do so, for reasons that you will understand.  Please advise me on what you want me to do.

The family ancestry question seems slightly irrelevant now, but a fascinating family all the same.

I apologise again if you have been at all upset by my obvious involvement in you family history.

Alison Jardine (nee Ginns).
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: eric-root on Saturday 12 November 11 14:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Alison,

Wow, I must assume that it's been a happy ending. No further postings since August last year  :)
I just happened to be looking up some extra information on my grandfather for the benefit of my daughter when I came across your original posting. So I signed up to give you some answers.
Reading the blog, I see that you probably know more than I do about my grandfather's geneaological details.
He died before I was born, but I heard a lot about him.
I expect anonyme3 has given you lots more details by now.
Take care
Eric
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Saturday 12 November 11 17:06 GMT (UK)
Hello Eric

It has been an interesting year.   How are you related Eric?  I would (and my sister definitely would) be interested to hear your information about the family.   How are you related please?

Ali
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: eric-root on Saturday 12 November 11 17:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Ali,

You probably know much more than I do about the family, so I don't think I'd be much help. But who knows?
Put it this way. I was searching for information for my daughter ... and she would "more than probably be" your sister's cousin :)
Take care (both of you).
Eric
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Saturday 12 November 11 19:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Eric

Thank you for replying so promptly.  My sister certainly has extremely interesting ancestors, as you must have read.

If your daughter wishes to know more, I am more than happy for you (and her) to make contact with me.

I have added the information that I gathered on a family tree on www.ancestry.co.uk which she may want to look at.

As you already knew, or have gathered, from reading the messages on this site, my sisters contact with her natural mother is a sensitive issue and only my adopted sister, her mother Patricia (and her husband and children) were aware of the recent contact.   Since this time Patricia may have informed or spoken to other members of her family.

As her older sister I am protective of her but always willing and keen for her to be in contact with her natural family if possible.   Whilst acting as the intermediary for my sister and her mother I also became extremely fond of Patricia and would not want her to be hurt or upset in any way.   I do not know who she has informed about Stephanie and am so reluctant to discuss any details with anyone else.   I am sure that you can understand this.

 With regards and best wishes.

Ali x
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: alisonjar on Saturday 12 November 11 19:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Eric.

I have just realised that I shouldn't have posted my private email on this site.  I hope that the moderators will forgive me.

Alternatively you can send me a private message on this site.

Thank you

Ali x
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: eric-root on Saturday 12 November 11 20:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Ali :) :) :) :)
Just a quick note to say that I'll contact you later.

Eric
Title: Re: Help needed - DAVIES family
Post by: handsri on Tuesday 06 December 16 15:28 GMT (UK)
Dear Ali

Please forgive my contacting you out of the blue. I came across your correspondence on rootschat quite by accident while researching my maternal grandfather Herman George Tankersley Davies (with the vague idea of offering a family tree for Christmas to my mother, his youngest daughter, now herself approaching her 90th birthday). I see you have had some exchanges with my "Eric" (I'm guessing Sawyer, who would be my cousin).

As you have remarked in your correspondence, "George" seems to have been not just rather larger than life (something I had gleaned from the Aspro story and my mother's memories), but also a most dreadful bounder - not least in his treatment of women...

I am also aware (albeit vaguely) that there have been some sad stories among his descendants - such as the personal matter to which you refer in your exchanges on these boards. I do hope all concerned are content.

This is a very long shot as these exchanges all took place over 5 years ago, but you refer to your own efforts to build a family tree. Would it be possible to share your information with me? I would of course be most happy to reciprocate.

My apologies again, and - if you do read this - thank you; please do not feel under any obligation to respond.

All the best,

Richard Hands