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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Debe on Monday 21 June 10 04:24 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am having problems and a big headache trying to unravel my HAGGIS/HAGGAS family from Northowram Yks.
I thought I had found my gg grandmother's parents and siblings but on receipt of the certificate of her 2nd marriage I have been left in a quandary.
Hannah HAGGAS was bn c1810 Northowram, according to her age at the time of her 2nd marriage and her 1870 death. I can't find a positive birth entry in a Parish register for her.
Originally I came to the conclusion her parents were Daniel HAGGAS a stone delver and Sarah HORSFIELD but on her 2nd marriage in 1844 to Miles BIRKBECK it states on the certificate her father was William HAGGIS a stone delver.I note that Miles's father was also a William which made me wonder if the person filling in the certificate got it wrong!
I have done some research and found a William HAGGIS, stone delver, married a Hannah SPENCER at Northowram 1810 and they had 5 known children but none recorded as my Hannah!
The reason I thought she may have been the d/o Daniel & Sarah was an entry on the IGI for Northowram but it had no film/ batch number that I could order other than it was a patron submission, so I can't positively ID the entry as mine.
Her 1st marriage in 1832 does not have her father recorded in the Parish Register as appears to have been the practise in the Parish registers of the era.
Now I am in a quandary as the Hannah on the IGI was apparently b 1816 which if it was my gg Grannie would have been 16 when she married - nothing unusual for the 1830's I guess.
Is there anyway or anywhere I can research to find out just who my Hannah's parents were? I am leaning towards William HAGGIS & Hannah SPENCER but have no definite proof other than what was on the certificate of her 1844 2nd marriage and as I said before I am a little suspicious of that fro the reasons previously outlined.
Thanks for your patience reading this rather long post. I hope I haven't confused you all but would love some guidance with this problem
Deb
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Hi Deb,
Can I ask how certain you are that your Haggas family were from Northowram ?
I have just had a quick look on findmypast.com and in 1841 nearly all of the enumerated 141 Haggas families were living in Keighley with others in Bradford and none in Halifax.
Haggis families were more widespread but not in the Halifax area.
Unfortunately IGI is down at the moment so I couldn't have a look on there.
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Hi,
I am having problems and a big headache trying to unravel my HAGGIS/HAGGAS family from Northowram Yks.
Hannah HAGGAS was bn c1810 Northowram, according to her age at the time of her 2nd marriage and her 1870 death.
I can't find a positive birth entry in a Parish register for her.
On her 2nd marriage in 1844 to Miles BIRKBECK it states on the certificate her father was William HAGGIS a stone delver.
I have done some research and found a William HAGGIS, stone delver, married a Hannah SPENCER at Northowram 1810 and they had 5 known children but none recorded as my Hannah!
Is there anyway or anywhere I can research to find out just who my Hannah's parents were?
I am leaning towards William HAGGIS & Hannah SPENCER but have no definite proof
Deb
Hi Deb
Don't know if this will be of any help
1851c HO107/2302/353/10
William HAGGIS 1789 Northowram Stone Delver
Hannah 1789 Ovenden
John 1813 Stone Delver Northowram
Robert 1824
Jonas 1831
on IGI pilot following info. for baptism/christening to parents William & Hannah
Jonas HAGGIS/HAGGES
chr. 9/2/1831 Methodist New Connexion, Amblethorn, Yorkshire
Sarah HAGGIS bn 6/8/1825 ch. 3/10/1825 Methodist New Connexion
William HAGGIS bn 6/3/1817 ch. 12/10/1817 " " "
following names do not have a baptism place only parents name William & Hannah HAGGIS & birth date (non-conformist records)
John 20/9/1812
Martha 3/6/1815
HANNAH 2/12/1819
Alice 1/3/1821
Robert 21/3/1823
Spencer 4/2/1828
Not much help on 1841c only the same three boys with them
1841c HO107/1303/6 Halifax
HAGGNESS
William 50 Stone Delver
Hannah 50
John 25
Robert 15
Jonas 10
Did Hannah have any children from her first marriage, that may link the names?
I see from 1851 census that Miles & Hannah BIRKBECK
had 6 children
Hannah, Nancy, William, George, Samuel & Mary A
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Hi
I thought Dave was probably right, as there is not a single HAGGAS (or variants) baptism in the Halifax St John's parish registers up to 1812. However, Northowram has a long history of nonconformity, and many inhabitants christened their children at the Independent chapel in Northowram.
There are, however eight HAGGAS marriages in the 1768-1811 period as everyone, nonconformist or not, had to marry in the established parish church between 1754 and 1837.
Six out of the eight give Northowram as the abode.
The earliest one is the marriage of Dan HAGGAS on 22nd August 1768. He's a weaver of Northowram and marries Sarah HORSFIELD of Northowram. Neither party was able to sign their name, and the witnesses were James Murgatroyd and William Hartley.
Betty HAGGAS (married 8.9.1799 to John MITCHELL) and Sarah HAGGAS (married 2.12.1804 to David HAIGH, a militiaman of Colchester) give their abodes as Halifax and Ovenden respectively, but all the following give their abode as Northowram:
James HAGGAS (delver) 4.11.1805 to Grace HORSFALL
Joseph HAGGAS (weaver) 4.9.1809 to Grace IBBOTSON
William HAGGAS (weaver) 3.12.1809 to Grace MARSLAND
William HAGGAS (labourer) 5.3.1810 to Hannah SPENCER
Daniel HAGGAS (delver) 7.10.1811 to Sarah SMITH
Regards,
Lesley
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Hi Dave,
I am reasonably sure that my HAGGAS lot were from Northowram as the census records I have found so far have Northowram as place of birth.
On the PR entry for the marriage of gg Grannie Hannah to Joseph BAIRSTOW in 1832 they were both of the parish of Northowram.
I have yet to find any evidence that the lot I am looking at were from anywhere else. If William is her father then on the 1851 census he is recorded as being born in Northowram. Perhaps he thought he was but in reality was born elsewhere!
Deb
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Yes, picking up from Ladyhawk's reply - Ambler Thorn is on the Halifax/ Bradford border at Queensbury (then Queen's Head) The Methodist New Connection had 2 graveyards, the chapel is now demolished and one of the graveyards has been built on. I am not sure which methodist circuit it came under for the registration purposes, perhaps Wibsey, but I do know that transcripts of MI's and burial books are held at Bradford Library.
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Thanks Ladyhawk for those census entries. Bit concerned about the Hannah bn 1819. If that is my Hannah then she would have been 13 when she married Joseph in 1832! Ouch.
I really do believe I am not going to make a positive connection with this lot.
I do have 4 small squares of fragile brown paper dated 1833 & 1835 with the heading of Methodist New Connexion and they each have a biblical text on them but have my gg grandfather's name Joseph BAIRSTOW written on them and I know he marked his name with a cross on the marriage entry in the Parish Register so I am thinking they were non-conformists which may make my task even harder than it already is.
Hannah HAGGAS & Joseph BAIRSTOW had only 1 known child, my g grandfather Isaac who seems to have been named after his grandfather Isaac.
On the 1841 census of Northowram the household consists of Hannah age 30, Stuff weaver, Isaac age 6 and Sarah HAGGAS age 15.
2 doors away is stone delver Daniel HAGGAS age 65, Sarah 65 & John 15 and that added to the confusion.
Thanks for your info Ladyhawk
Deb
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Hi Dave,
Interesting considering my pieces of paper with the New Connexion connection that I inherited many years ago.
I am now having serious doubts that Hannah's parents were William HAGGAS & Hannah SPENCER.
Think I will have to check out the William HAGGAS & Grace MARSLAND union that Ladyhawk found and see of I can find any connection with that.
Thanks for you help
Deb
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Hi Deb
Missed that Isaac BAIRSTOW was the stepson of Miles BIRKBECK and Hannah's son on 1851 census.
Sarah HAGGAS age 15 on 1841 census with Hannah age 30 & Isaac BAIRSTOW age 6 was born 1826 and the baptism at Methodist New Connexion was 1825 daughter of William & Hannah.
Is it possible they have put the wrong birth date for Hannah :-\
Added
just checked IGI for all HAGGIS/AS/ES childrens records extracted and Hannah date still 1819 and all baptisms Methodist New Connexion Amblethorn
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Thanks for that Lesley. I think I need to follow up from the marriage of William & Grace Marsland.
Beginning to feel as if I will have to re start the HAGGAS research after a few years of getting nowhere fast!
Maybe after a goodnight's sleep I will have a clearer head in the morning to have a re-think of where I'm at.
Thanks for all the help so far you are a great lot.
Deb
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Thanks Ladyhawk, that takes me back to William & Hannah again and for some reason I want to believe those are my gg Grannie's parents ::)
Weren't the ages on the 1841 census rounded to the nearest 5 or 0? I can't remember if it was up or down.
My original thoughts a few years ago were Daniel HAGGAS & Sarah SMITH for her parents but as I said in my 1st posting the name of William on her 2nd marriage threw that into confusion.
I have done a large amount of well documented reseach on her life with Miles but prior to that I have very little to work on.
Deb
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Weren't the ages on the 1841 census rounded to the nearest 5 or 0? I can't remember if it was up or down.
Info. about 1841 census
Ages up to 15 are listed exactly as reported/recorded
Ages over 15 were rounded to the nearest 5 years (rounded down).
example
a person aged 63 would be listed on the census as age 60 years.
Someone aged 69 would be recorded as 65 years
:)
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Many thanks for clarifying that. I couldn't quite remember.
Deb
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Hi Debz.
On my family tree l have a Hannah Haggis born abt 1827 Northowram.
My son went to the graveyards there and spoke to someone about this.
so this is what we have:
Father James Haggis born 1806-1878 Castleford
Mother Rachel Bairstow born 1807-1875 Ackworth
James's father was William Haggis born 1789 Northowram
We have no husband or children for her, but l hope this information helps you in some way.
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Oh forgot to add that William Haggis was married to a Hannah Spencer born abt 1789 • Ovenden.
Her father was John Spencer, l have no idea where he was born or who he married.
Birth of son James Haggis(1806–1878)
23 Nov 1806 • Castleford, Yorkshire, England
1810
21
Select fact
Marriage
5 Mar 1810 • Halifax, St John The Baptist, Yorkshire, England
1 source
Explore
1810
21
Birth of daughter Hannah Haggis(1810–)
8 Dec 1810
1812
23
Birth of son John Haggis(1812–1875)
20 Sep 1812 • Northowram, Yorkshire, England
1815
26
Birth of daughter Martha Haggis(1815–)
3 Jan 1815
1817
28
Birth of son William Haggis(1817–)
6 Mar 1817
1821
32
Birth of daughter Alice Haggis(1821–)
1 Mar 1821
1823
34
Birth of son Robert Haggis(1823–1856)
21 May 1823 • Northowram, Yorkshire, England
1825
36
Birth of daughter Sarah Haggis(1825–)
1 Aug 1825
1827
38
Birth of son Spencer Haggis(1827–)
31 Oct 1827
1831
42
Birth of son Jonas Haggis(1831–)
9 Feb 1831 • Northowram, Yorkshire, England
1831
42
Birth of son James Haggis(1831–1853)
1831
1851
62
Select fact
Residence
1851 • Northowram, Yorkshire, England
1 source
Explore
1853
64
Death of son James Haggis(1831–1853)
25 May 1853
1856
67
Death of son Robert Haggis(1823–1856)
7 Jan 1856
1861
72
Death of husband William Haggis(1789–1861)
5 May 1861 • Yorkshire West Riding, United Kingdom
1875
86
Death of son John Haggis(1812–1875)
23 Nov 1875 • Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
1878
89
Death of son James Haggis(1806–1878)
Mar 1878 • Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Copied from what we have on our tree.
Again hope it helps. Haggis or Haggas are both correct.
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Hi,
Sorry for the delay in replying but I have been away but now home and ready to start researching again :)
I have Hannah Haggas d/o William Haggas (1795-1861) and Hannah Spencer(1787-1854) who were married 05 March 1810 at Halifax. She married Joseph Bairstow in 1832 but he was not found on any census records and as Hannah married Miles Birkbeck in 1844 and was recorded as a widow at that marriage I assume Joseph died sometime between the birth of his son Isaac born in 1834 and the 1841 census. I can't find a death date for Joseph - very frustrating- too many Joseph Bairstow!!!!!!
So far I have found 9 children born to William and Hannah Haggas from 1810 to 1831 and the one I don't have a death date for is their 8th child Spencer Haggas born in 1831.
I have some old photos I found in an album that belonged to my great grandfather who was the grand son of son of Hannah and William and among them was one of Alice Haggas, sister to Hannah Haggas, and several of Hannah and her 2nd Husband Miles Birkbeck. Lovely to be able to put faces to names :)
Many thanks,
Deb