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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: Sandykt on Thursday 17 June 10 19:33 BST (UK)
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I am trying to locate some information about my Grandfather b1892. I have ascertained he was one of 6 children. I have gleened this from the 1911 Census which asks the question "children born, children living, children died".
In the 1891 Census my Grandfather is yet to be born but his parents are here:
24 Alice Street, Canning Town
Charles Townsend b1863 b Hook (Fareham) age 29 Occ Ag Lab
Mary A Townsend abt 1866 b Wickham
William Townsend b1886
Charles Townsend b1889
William dies in 1891 followed by Mary A Townsend somewhere between 1897 and 1898.
When I find my Grandfather in the 1901 Census living at 36 Hoy Street, Canning Town with his Father and Step Mother (she is described as Sophia Townsend but I am very confident they did not marry), Charles Townsend b1889 is then joined by Frederick b1892 (my Grandfather), John Townsend b1895 and Alice b1897. So thats five surviing Townsend children - how do I find out about the missing one?
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In 1911 - the question really relates to the "wife" - in this case Sophia not Mary Ann. I notice in 1901 that there was a child surname Fenton aged 8 - presumably Sophia's daughter so you would have to consider that the figure of 6 could include both Mary Ann & Sophia depending on how they interpreted the question when they completed the return
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Sophia is on the 1891 census with husband George and 5 children
In 1891 - 2 of those children- Charles and John are shown as visitors
RG12 Piece 1319 Folio 52 Page 18
George is still very much alive in 1901 with the 2 youngest children and shown as married
RG13 Piece 1582 Folio 64 Page 50
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Hi
The only death of a Mary A Townsend of the right age between 1897 and 1901 is this one:
Mary Ann Townsend age 32
December 1897
Braintree
Possibly she died giving birth to Alice. Therefore if there was another child born to Charles and Mary it must have been before this. If you look at the dates of the other children they are pretty evenly spaced out. I think Carole's idea could be correct.
Jan
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Sophia Fenton was my grandfather's Step Mum. She never married Charles Townsend b1863 and I know that from the 1911 Census which asks about completed years of marriage. They give completely different answers. Also Sophia's husband is alive and well and living close by.
On the 1911 Census Sophia gave the names of all her children and then declared which ones had died which is why some are crossed out.
Unfortunately, she answered her questions first and then the questions for Charles after that.
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I have had a closer look at the 1911 Census. Sophia has stated all 9 of her own children. She then has declared 2 of them dead. So her column says 9 children born, 7 living, 2 died.
Charles Townsend b1863 Fareham has stated he has had 6 children, 4 living, 2 dead.
I know about the death of William in 1891. This missing one is really eating away at me.
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What a mess that entry is. ;D ;D ;D
If Mary Ann's death was registered in Braintree, it's possible that the missing child's was as well.
Looking at Freebmd there are 3 Townsend children's deaths between 1892 and 1897:
Frederick age 13 June 1892 ( therefore born 1879)
Archibald age 3 June 1895 ( therfore born 1892)
Thomas age 2 Dec 1896 ( therefore born 1894)
You'd need to work out if any of these could be possible, then find their births and send for the certificate.
Jan
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Can't be Frederick but the other 2 are possibilities. It will cost you £18.50 to find out as you will have to buy both death certs
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All the other children are stated to have been born in West Ham. I am steering towards Mary Ann dying just after Alice was born possibly in Braintree.
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There is an Archibald Townsend bapt 1892 at St Augustine South Hackney to Horace John & Emily Townsend.
Archibald is not with them in 1901 census so wonder if that accounts for him?
Tazzie
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There is an Archibald Townsend bapt 1892 at St Augustine South Hackney to Horace John & Emily Townsend.
Archibald is not with them in 1901 census so wonder if that accounts for him?
Tazzie
Tazzie, parents are Charles and Mary Ann so Archibald is not the one.
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Hi Sandy
Tazzie was helping by pointing out that as Archibald had different parents - you could eliminate him as a possible child of Charles and Mary Ann
That now only leaves Thomas who died 1896
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Thomas Townsend March quarter 1894 Braintree 4a 669
Can't see any others born in the right area.
Jan
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Hi Sandy
Tazzie was helping by pointing out that as Archibald had different parents - you could eliminate him as a possible child of Charles and Mary Ann
That now only leaves Thomas who died 1896
Sorry, I did not appreciate that - thank you and thanks Tazzie.
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Charles and Mary Ann got married on 16 May 1886. Mary Ann was a widow when she married Charles having previously married John Charles Pipe in Dec 1884. John Charles Pipe then died in 1884. Are we back to square one?
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Charles and Mary Ann got married on 16 May 1886. Mary Ann was a widow when she married Charles having previously married John Charles Pipe in Dec 1884. John Charles Pipe then died in 1884. Are we back to square one?
Hello Sandy,
Slightly off the main subject, but do you know anything about this John Charles Pipe?
Michael
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Mary Ann Sida (my Great Grandmother's maiden name) married John Charles Pipe on 25 Dec 1883 at St Mark church, Victoria Docks. John is stated to be a widower and a labourer. Both Mary Ann and John are stated to be living at 6 Clara Street. John's Father - John Pipe.
John Charles Pipe died on 6 Dec 1884, a farm labourer, cause of death, small pox. C Coppock registered the death.
I have marriage and death certificates. Hope this helps.
Sandra
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Mary Ann Sida (my Great Grandmother's maiden name) married John Charles Pipe on 25 Dec 1883 at St Mark church, Victoria Docks. John is stated to be a widower and a labourer. Both Mary Ann and John are stated to be living at 6 Clara Street. John's Father - John Pipe.
John Charles Pipe died on 6 Dec 1884, a farm labourer, cause of death, small pox. C Coppock registered the death.
I have marriage and death certificates. Hope this helps.
Sandra
Thanks, Sandra,
That does help, especially the Coppock. He had step brother/sister with the name of Coppock/Coppeck
Michael
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I did not research too deeply with John Charles Pipe - only to confirm he had married my Great Grandmother. I found John Charles Pipe in the 1881 census and I am sure he was married with a young son, also called John Pipe. I believe his first wife then died - I cannot find my notes but I do recall finding an entry for her death and then he married my Great Grandmother. Not sure what happened to the young boy. I also recall the name Coppock being on the 1881 census when I found him.