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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Huntingdonshire => Topic started by: bellababy on Tuesday 15 June 10 11:21 BST (UK)
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Hi hope someone can help me as ive become a bit stuck!
???I have been tracing Freeman Wiles born in St Neots around 1812 but im unable to find a specific date or his parents - I know he was a resident from 1841 ( from the census ) at Duck Lane and he worked as a solicitors clerk for a Mr Peppercorn in St Neots .
Thank you
bellababy
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if you could find him in 1851 census that would tell you where he was born. You could then go to the IGI for that places' church records and see if his baptism is recorded. That will tive you a date- and sometimes the record gives the birth date as well. His father's name will probably be on the baptism record..
charlotte
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In 1851 he was 39 birthplace St Neots. Unfortunately St Neots baptisms aren't on the IGI, or BVRI, and the transcript doesn't have a Freeman Wiles 1812 +/- 5 years (quite a few other Wiles though)
I'll see if he was a very late baptism once lunch is over. A 10 year old is suddenly starving!
David
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Welcome to Rootschat Bellababy
I think magret de canard is just about my favourite meat. My son doesn't complain either, but he eats everything other than asparagus, green olives, and cooked mushrooms.
But back to business, he does appear to have been a late baptism.
St Neots 31 March 1819 Freeman Wiles, son of Richard and Susannah Wiles, mealman. They also baptised Mary and Silvester the previous day.
Richard Wiles married Susannah Holmes, widow, in 1804 at St Neots, per Hunts Marriage Index.
Trying to find Susannah's maiden name, the only Holmes/Susannah marriage in Hunts was in 1803 at Glatton, Samuel Holmes widow and Susannah Stokes. But I can't see a burial of a Samuel Holmes 1803/4, so perhaps this isn't the right marriage. But there are no Holmes burials in St Neots that would work.
Burials in St Neots include
Richard Wiles age 53 on 22 Aug 1810
Richard Wiles age 38 on 21 Jan 1820
Susan Wiles age 66 on 18 Apr 1838
Richard Wiles age 80 on 23 Sep 1848
Naomi Wiles age 67 on 23 Apr 1881
Freeman Wiles age 70 on 1 Jan 1883
Silvester Wiles age 45 was unmarried living in St Neots in 1851 so his baptism was well late.
David
PS Have you seen http://calm.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/ArchiveCatalogue/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=0&dsqSearch=%28%28%28text%29=%27freeman%20wiles%27%29AND%28Level=%27Item%27%29%29 ? Freeman Wiles of St Neots. Reward of £2 2s for apprehension. Left wife and family chargeable to the parish.
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Hi David
Wow im gobsmacked how did you find all that out so quickly - i thought the bishop hadnt allowed information to be given to the latter day saints etc
I did have that article about him you mentioned and also his relation of William Case Morris of
Soham which made interesting reading.
Many thanks indeed
also to charlotte CH for your imput
Bellababy
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I didn't use the LDS.
Hunts FHS have transcribed St Neots parish register, and I have just the baptism transcript. Marriages up to 1837 and burials are on Hunts Marriage Index (another Hunts FHS transcription on fiche) and the NBI respectively.
David
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Well at least i am one more generation back . Did you have any more luck with Susannah?
Richard Wiles ties in very well as there is generations named after him .
Your boy off for teacher training day? The suns shining here - hopefully it is down your way .
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Afraid no joy with Susannah. Not sure about that marriage I found.
I'm assuming she's the one who was buried in 1838, which if her age on burial is correct (and it often wasn't) puts her birth at 1772. You really need to check the parish register to see what the entry says, eg wife of Richard, widow of Richard, to narrow down which of the Richard burials is her husband. The 1810 one seems a couple of years too early given Freeman's census ages, but either of the others could be him. It doesn't help that I can't find (yet!) the one who should have been alive in 1841.
I'm checking for baptisms and marriages of the various Richards to see if they can inspire me.
No, normal day at school, but he comes home for lunch 12-2.
David
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As if researching in Hunts isn't hard enough, in addition to Richard who married Susannah Holmes in St Neots in 1804, there was another Richard who married Ann Palmer in St Neots in 1803
Two baptisms in St Neots were
Richard son of William & Henrietta Wiles, victualler on 30 Dec 1781
Richard son of Thomas & Letitia Wiles, gardener, on 29 Jul 1784
And at the moment I can't separate them. Was Freeman the solicitor's clerk the grandson of a gardener or a victualler? Or was he somehow connected to another Richard, yeoman, who was baptising children in the 1760s/70s.
And on that less than happy note, I've got a bit of tidying up to do as I've got a guest arriving from England tomorrow, so I may be a bit quiet for the next week or so
David
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Hi David
Thanks for letting me know on Ancestry. Glad Bellababy has finally found out the information she was after.
Here is my tree if it's help to anyone.
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=are-we-related&id=P510464373
If you ever come across a marriage for Naomi Wiles' brother Pelatiah Morris, I would be grateful if you can let me know.
Should be in St Neots about 1831 to a Mary Ann.
Cheers, Terry
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Hi Terry
1828 St Neots Pelaliah Morris and Mary Ann Pack (per Hunts Marriage Index)
Mary Ann Pack, dau of William and Mary, baptised at St Neots on 24 May 1804
David
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Here's an odd one!
I see from Terry's tree that one of Freeman's children was Susannah Squire Wiles.
Baptised at St Neots on 24 May 1803 was Susannah Holmes SQUIRE dau of William and Mary, aged 8 mths, and it was the following year that Richard Wiles married Susannah Holmes.
But I'm blowed if I can find the connection between WILES, SQUIRE and HOLMES (yet!)
David
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OK, found Bellababy's tree on Ancestry too.
There's a burial at Toseland on 5 March 1853 of Mary Morriss age 46, which seems to be the wife of Pelatiah.
My visitor is about to leave home for her 15 minute drive to East Midlands airport, and my house is still a tip. But I've never been one to let housework stand between me an interesting genealogical problem!
David
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Thanks verys much David.
At the time, I was assuming the Squires name was something to do with Freeman's wife or his parents, but I couldn't find any link.
I also couldn't find the link for his other daughter with the name Coulson, other than Naomi's brother Benjamin was living with some Coulson's in 1841.
Cheers, Terry
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Thanks for all your help guys!
I thought that the Richard Wiles born in 1782 who was buried 21.1.1820 would have been Freemans father and they had maybe all be baptised (as maybe again) they knew he was about to pop his clogs - so to speak !
As for the Squire / Coulson bit im not clear on yet but i did notice they appeared after Freeman had gone AWOL from his family .
Silvester that you mentioned was also on the 1841 census being an inmate at the local gaol - wonder what he had been up to ??
bellababy
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Good morning David
Hope your visitor enjoyed their visit and the weather behaved itself!
I think i have solved the Squire problem - Susannah Wiles nee Squire daughter of James Squire and Mary Burder poss of Little Paxton about 1771. Now i have found that Susannah had Children : Silvester , James, Mary, Harriett and Freeman and im guessing that James and Harriett are from her first marriage but as the St Neots reg are the way they are i cant access grrrr.
Im also thinking that Richard Wiles parents are William (victualler) and Henrietta as their names follow on down the line but yet again impossible to get marriage etc.
Henrietta married a Samuel Church i think maybe in Eaton Socon but i dont know dates......
Thats my update for the moment
spk soon
bellababy
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Hi Bellababy
I'm on holiday in Derby, now that French schools have broken up. I'm back home on the 14th, and I'll have a look at St Neots baptisms then - I have the transcript
David
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Hi David just a few things i have found while you were away which may help you on your return from Derby (love Derby - whereabouts are you?)
I found several will s dated from 1812 to 1879.
The 1812 will mentions Parties: Richard Wiles of st Neots, mealman and William Wiles of St. Neots, dealer in corn. It appears Richard Wiles bought property ( from Frances Brace ) on the former site of the Three Blackbirds "nr shortsands".
Another will dated 1838 mentions James Wiles eldest son to Susannah and Richard Wiles. Mary Wiles of St Neots gets mentioned as daughter to Susannah.
Henrietta Wiles also gets mentioned i think as Richards mum but im still trying to work out who is who.
If it helps you the page is http://blars.adlibsoft.com (bedforshire county council)
Terry may also find this interesting to have a look at .
Enjoy your last few days
Bellababy
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Hi David,
I just clicked on your profile by mistake and i m glad i did- noticed on your profile your location is Carcasonne - drrrr for some reason im thinking your in an office somewhere in Hunts - oh dear me im so silly!. Which explains the school holidays and lunch at home for your son !! I have visited Vias and Sete but didnt manage to get to carcasonne - shame as i bet its beautiful . Loved Vias and France in general - lovely way of life so chilled. Back to business was going to correct some of my information i gave you Henrietta instead of Harriett Daughter to Susannah and maybe Richard. Would be good to find a marriage for James - eldest son to Susannah .
Will get back to you if i find out more - Terry may have found some too
Bellababy
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Baptisms in St Neots:
James Wiles 11 May 1807 (born 1 Dec 1805) son of Richard & Susannah corn factor
Henrietta Wiles 11 May 1807 (born 3 Dec 1806) dau of Richard & Susannah corn factor
Mary Wiles 30 Mar 1819 dau of Richard & Susannah mealman
Silvester Wiles 30 Mar 1819 son of Richard & Susannah mealman
Freeman Wiles 31 Mar 1819 son of Richard & Susannah mealman
From the birth dates helpfully given for James and Harriet it's clear that they were from Susannah's marriage to Richard Wiles, not from her first marriage.
Henrietta Wiles married Samuel Church of Goldington Beds at St Neots in 1832
I have two possible marriages for James, and am trying to separate them
I'll be back
Thanks for the gentle nudge - I knew that on one of the boards I'd said I'd look up St Neots, but had forgotten which thread it was!
David
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There are two possibilities for James' marriage:
1829 James of St Neots and Rebecca Fletcher at Eynesbury
and
1831 James and Mary Gillings at Toseland
There's a burial at Toseland of Mary Wiles aged 30 on 14 Feb 1837, but it needs reference to the PR to see if she was described as wife of James. But I can't find any subsequent sighting of James. However there are other burials 1816-33 in Toseland, so I think it's possible that James was from that parish. Again it needs reference to Toseland parish register to see if he was baptised there. If he was that would leave the field open for the 1829 marriage to be your James.
There was a baptism of Griffin Fletcher Wiles in St Neots on 27 Feb 1830, son of James and Rebecca, butcher. The BLARS lease that you found to which James Wiles was a party had his address as Provost St, City Rd, London. In 1841 Griffin appears at Brunswick Place, Clerkenwell with George Squire 25, Rebecca Squire 29, Griffin Wiles 13 Not b in Middx, Frances Wiles 10 not, John Wiles 8 b in Middx; Edwin Wiles 6 b in Middx; Rebecca Wiles 2 b in Middx. Still living in Clerkenwell in 1851 were
George Squire 35 b St Neots; Rebecca Squire 40 b Toseland; Edwin Wiles 14 b Clerkenwell; George Squire 9 b Clerkenwell.
There is a death in the GRO index of James Wiles in the Dec quarter 1839 at Islington, but it would take the purchase of the death cert to get more detail, including his age and address. Hopefully it would say Provost St. Clerkenwell which is in the London Borough of Islington, which would at least tie him in with the London family. Provost St is only 100 yards from Brunswick Place
Interesting too that Rebecca Wiles appears to have married a Squire from St Neots. But I can't find a marriage.
When Griffin Fletcher Wiles married in St Pancras in 1850 he named his father as James Wiles dead.
Nor can I see that James and Rebecca baptised any of their London children. However Freebmd has a birth of Rebecca Ann Wiles in Islington in the Sept quarter 1839, but it will take another £9-25 to buy the certificate!
It's a scorcher here today. Went out earlier this afternoon to watch the Tour de France passing through Castelnaudary, a few miles from here. Too hot! And it's all over in seconds.
Still trying to tie up some St Neots end, but thought I'd post it before the computer overheats
David
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James Squire of St Neots married Mary Burder of Buckden Hunts at St Neots in 1761
I'm looking for Wiles baptisms from 1769 onwards
More tomorrow
David
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But who was Richard Wiles? The problem is that there were two of them baptising children in tandem in St Neots.
Your Richard and Susannah and another couple, Richard and Sarah, labourer. I assume this second couple was Richard Wiles and Sarah Small who married in Brampton in 1794 and baptised their first child in St Neots in 1798. A further assumption is that the Brampton Richard wasn't born in St Neots.
In any event, there's only one Richard born in the right era, and he would have been too young to have been having children in 1798. He was baptised on 29 July 1784, which is a couple of years adrift for the 38 year old buried in 1820, the son of Thomas and Letitia, gardener.
This couple was Thomas Wiles otp who married Letitia Watts of Eaton Socon, Beds, at St Neots in 1769. In addition to Richard in 1784 they also baptised:
7 Dec 1770 Richard
14 Oct 1771 Elizabeth
5 Dec 1777 Letitia
27 Apr 1781 Ann
22 Sep 1782 William
7 Apr 1786 Thomas
13 Mar 1789 Ann
2 Jun 1793 Maria (described as poor)
The position might be complicated by the couple you mention, William and Henrietta Wiles, a victualler, who baptised Sarah on 4 Jul 1773 and Ann on 2 Apr 1780. Might they have had other children who weren't baptised, given that Richard and Susannah's first daughter was named Henrietta? Pure speculation! You might consider contacting Huntingdon Records Office to see if they hold any Wiles wills which might help to sort them out.
David
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Once again thanks so much David for your help - it would be nice if James Wiles son of Susannah and Richard born 1805 is the James Wiles who marries Rebecca Fletcher as this family have quite a lot of interesting reading (wiles army steam cooker and Club Hotel Clunes ) Lets keep our fingers crossed. Items i have read put James Wiles death at around 1839 - 1841 but i need to check this.
Richard and Susannah parents of Freeman is confirmed on a will dated 1838 and mentions the property on Duck Lane.
But which Richard is it ??
I think i will have to order Richard and Susannah s marriage certificate then i have definate names.
So its between the gardener and the victualler ? The will mentions property built on the previous Three Black birds Inn could this have belonged to William ? there is a William Wiles in the 1830s Pigots directory down as merchant and maltster in Market Square?
I think i need to write all the information down in some sort of order to try to work this out but for now i will say goodnight
Very puzzled
Bellababy
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Could it have been Richard born in dec 1781 son of William and Henrietta.
Married Susannah in 1804 approx age 23 .
Died in 1820 age 38/39.
The ages and names seem to connect .
Ive got the bit between my teeth now !!!
Bellababy
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Could it have been Richard born in dec 1781 son of William and Henrietta.
Sorry, I missed this one. Baptised 30 Dec 1781. With bad eyes, microfiche and a 20x magnifying glass and doing a blanket search I'm not infallible.
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David
This was info you gave me some time ago and it was just as i was checking through that i noticed it and the dates seem perfect. There is also a William Wiles in the Pigots directory 1830 with a William Wiles from Eynesbury .
We could do with some of your sunshine as it has rained for ages here !!
Bellababy
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Hi David
I got a couple of the wills and although Susannah Wiles will doesnt give me a great deal more info than i already had atleast it does confirm all the names.
However Henrietta (Richards Wiles mother) does let me know that her maiden name was BRACE and she had a sister Frances who never married .
Richard was one of 4 children - Sarah - William - Frances and then Richard but sadly does nt give any dates of birth or baptism. It does give Sarahs married name to be Atkinson and Frances married name to be Hall or Hale ??
These will hopefully help Terry with his tree and if you have some time to spare could i bother you for some more dates for the above new members.
Could i buy the copies myself to save keep bothering you - i feel a bit of a pest - im sure you know what it s like once you get yourself a lead you just want to keep digging !!!
Ps the wills are a nightmare to decipher !
Regards Bellababy
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Hello!
I appreciate that the last contribution to this thread was around 15 years ago but I thought it was worth commenting as I also have an interest in this family. The brother of Susanna Wiles (formerly Holmes, originally Squire) was the sister of my 4x great-grandfather, William Squire (1768-1837). Their parents were James Squire (1740-1825) and Mary Burder (1737-1816).
Another of James & Mary's children - John Burder Squire (1763-1841) - married Susannah Peppercorn (from the family of lawyers in St Neots). It appears that one of their sons, Peter Squire (1799-1884) was chemist to Queen Victoria and a pioneer of modern pharmacy.
There are a number of trees on Ancestry which include a portrait attributed to be James Squire, which is at Bassmead Manor. It looks like this property is still owned by the Squire family!