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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: babzi on Monday 14 June 10 22:49 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have a knowledge of Glassworks manufacture in Dublin during 1830's onwards?
My gg grandfather was John McAulay Carrick and he had a business in 5 Mary's Abbey manufacturing (I think) glass, plaster works etc. In the directories he is listed as manufacturer but I know he was also agent for some products.
I am trying to get some background on the glass business in Dublin in this time to work out why his family came out from Scotland to be in this business.
He has connections with Dumbarton Glass on his mothers side but I dont know if this is connected. Was there sufficient sand in Dublin to be manufacturing glass at this time? Was there an explosion of the glass trade in Dublin at this time?
Any help would be appreciated.
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not an answer to your request, but might be of interest as background -
it even mentions an accident, but much earlier than your time-frame
http://www.jstor.org/pss/30104125
I just googled glass dublin 1850
eadaoin
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I'm trying to find out about glassworks in Dublin too.
My gggrandfather John Little was born in Dumbarton and came to Dublin via Glasgow where he and his father (John Little, just to help matters) were both working in the glassmaking business, but not apparently together. I think they both worked in Dumbarton too.
In 1868-70 his father went to Newton-le-Willows in Lancashire and he left for Dublin.
He is supposed to have been a supplier of bottles for Guinness. (My Uncle Fred's memoirs).
His son and grandson (both John again!) are still in the bottlemaking business in Dublin in the published Irish censuses. And my (work) information about him stops.
I do know that there were various bottle works in Ringsend around that time. I gleaned this bit from a late 19C book online:
"Pring's glass-house was afterwards known as the Ringsend Bottle
Company, ( ELIJA PRING) and in the Cork Exhibition of 1883 exhibited black and white bottles.
Three other glass bottle factories also had exhibits, viz. : The Irish Glass Bottle Company, Charlotte Quay, Ringsend ; The Dublin Glass Bottle Company, North Lotts, and Alexander Brown and Son, 175 Church Street.
At the present day there are four glass bottle works in Dublin, viz. : The Hibernian Glass Bottle Works, The Irish Glass Bottle Works, and the Ringsend Bottle Company, all at Ringsend, and Alexander Brown's Bottle Works, Church Street." (After 1883)
Then I couldn't find much about them!
Two heads better than one?
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Me again - have a look at the thread 'John Little, Bottlemaker, Dublin', if you haven't seen it. Of course I do know more about him, his marriages and children.........
BUT the thing I don't know about is the bottle works. I don't know where they worked, who with, what company - except it is likely to be Ringsend.I don't know why he went to Dublin.
The other thing about him is that he was one of the Plymouth Brethren sect, and he later emigrated to South Africa.
Anyone - more information about Dublin Glass?
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The following may be of interest:
Ringsend and her Sister Villages by Arthur Flynn Chap.10 Glass Making in Ringsend ISBN 1 871311 06 3
The Irish Times 9th June 1885 Page 7Glass Making in Dublin
History of the City of Dublin Vol.2 By Sir John T.Gilbert at Page 297..
For an earlier period Dublin under the Georges by Constantia Maxwell P.258-260 is also interesting.
I assume that the demand for glass containers increased with the emergence of and continual increase in size of a middle class after the Famine with taste for alchol beverages ,patent medicines and processed food stuffs before the use of tin cans became widespread.
Regards Quaxer
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Babzi - have you got anywhere with finding out about Glassworks in Dublin in the middle 19C?
I am no further in finding out where my ggrandfather worked!
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Babzi, have you tried this, http://www.ScotlandsGlass.co.uk Skoosh.
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hi to you all some new to glassmaking and some old if anyone wants to know anything on blowing pressing just ask p.s. allison i will give your your anwser about the punty mark on the newton le willows site in a bit.
neil
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hi alison ive replyed to your post about the punty mark.
neil
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HI Alison,
No I haven't had anything that really helps me work out why he left Scotland to live and work in Dublin in the Glassworks industry.
I did find an article a few years ago where he exhibited a stained glass window I think but I cannot find the article. It was a big exhibition in Dublin where all sorts of stuff were exhibited and awards were given.
If i find it I will send it on.
My guy must have had a supply of sand and whatever else required to manufacture in Dublin so its curious where these supplies came from if not locally?
John Carrick had a large area to use as production and warehousing of his products but I don't know if he actually manufactuered at 5 Mary's Abbey or not.
Babzi
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Hi Skoosh,
Yes but nothing for my John Carrick.
I think he made his mark in glass in Dublin so wouldn't have a record as such in Scotland.
I read the article on Dumbarton Glass a family connection of his.
thanks for the tip.
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I saved this about Dumbarton:
"The Dumbarton concern was the largest glassworks in Scotland…..
The extant records of the Dumbarton Glass Work Company, which was in existence from 1777 to 1850, with the exception of six years between I832 and I838, provide an almost unique insight into a business which was during the first three decades of the nineteenth century the largest concern of its type in Scotland and probably the pre-eminent glass undertaking in Britain.
…..Dixon family who, by 1816, had established beyond all doubt their control which was to last until 1832. From 1838 until 1850 the company was owned by James Christie, ironmaster and partner in the Calder Iron Works, but it never regained its economic leadership and when it ultimately closed 1850 the undertaking was a mere shadow of its former self.
http://www.dumbarton-online.com/glass.htm - details about manufacture.
In 1831 : 300 men employed at £1.00 Per Week"
Skilled glass workers moved around a lot. I think my ggrandfather moved to Glasgow because the business in Dumbarton failed, but why he went to Dublin in 1870 I don't know.
I read that there is lots of sand in Ringsend, it's also by the docks and bottles were exported from there, but apart from the possible connection with Guinness (according to my uncle) I haven't found any info. :( - Alison
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Wow thanks for that link. I hadn't seen it before.
Its interesting after John Carrick died in 1861 his estate went a lengthy court dispute between his wife Ellen and his children and Thomas Pilkington. I assume Thomas was from the Pilkington Glass Co and John Carrick must have been a creditor or partner of some sort with him.
I really need to find out if the court of chancery records are still available to look up and find out what the dispute was and the result. The newspaper reports I found did not state the finding of the case.
John married Jean McAulay daughter of John McAulay and Catherine and thier daughter Catherine Ann married Jacob Dixon of Dumbarton Glass.
I think there is a connection for John McAulay Carrick that he goes into the glass business in Dublin but I just don't know all the facts.
Babzi
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http://www.archive.org/stream/officialcatalogu00exhi#page/76/mode/2up
this is the link for the 1853 exhibition in Dublin which featured Glassworks.
quite a lot from Scotland and England. page 76.
Not sure if your people are in it. this is not the one with John Carrick in it. I will keep searching for it.
Babzi
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Hi Alison,
I found it.
go to google books and type in
triennial exhibition of manufacturers 1853 dublin
the exhibition will come up. You could probably do the same for later years for your people.
Babzi
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Hi Alison
Sorry page 397 onwards.
Babzi
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Not surprised to find Pilkingtons putting their oar in. They seem to have been a very aggressive company at this time.
In the same year, 1861, they bought and closed down a glassworks in Newton-le-Willows (possible rivals). The works opened up again in 1866 and John Little's father joined it from Glasgow. Then they made only bottles, which wasn't a threat!
The works, partnerships and connections changed a lot. They seem to have to put breakups in the newspaper (the Glasgow Herald has some) but not new partnerships.....you can search the GH online if you are a library member.
There are lots of Carricks and McCauleys in Dumbarton, aren't there!
Thanks for the links, they need study! - Alison
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Has anyone found their ancestor in the directory as a Glazier? If so he may have been in the Guild of St. Loy (Smiths' Guild) and a freeman of Dublin city. It's worth looking into
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John Carrick had a large area to use as production and warehousing of his products but I don't know if he actually manufactuered at 5 Mary's Abbey or not.
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I just came across an entry in an 1868 for the address you mentioned, and it is described as follows :
5 Mary's Abbey
John Carrick, crown, sheet, plate window glass, and cement warehouse
also listed at the address is Andrew Carrick
It sounds to me that is he was involved in glass manufacturing this was done elsewhere. John is listed in the index in the section titled 'Glass and Colour Warehouses'. Only two glass manufacturers are listed in Dublin at that time, both of bottles :
Dublin Glass Bottle Co., North Lotts. (office 46 Sherriff St)
Ringsend Glass Bottle Co., Ringsend
The 1863 edition show the following for the address :
5 Mary's Abbey
John Carrick, plate glass, glass bottle, and French shade &c warehouse
and the 1848 edition shows :
5 Mary's Abbey
John Carrick, plate, crown & sheet window glass, bottle, French shade, Roman cement and plaster of Paris warehouse
res - Pearmount, Donneycarney
John is not mentioned in the 1872 edition.
Shane
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just found some earlier entries for John :
Pettigrew & Oulton - 1840
5 Mary's Abbey
John Carrick, plate, crown & broad window glass, bottle, Roman cement and plaster of Paris warehouse
Pettigrew & Oulton - 1834
11 Mary's Abbey
John Carrick, agent for the Dunbarton glass company.
Office and warehouse, Meeting House Lane
The address is shared with Nowlan bookbinders, Harrington moulded candles, a girls school, and Wilson cabinet maker
The only Carrick that I see listed in Pigot's 1824 is a John Carrick, printer of 29 Bachelor's Walk
Shane
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HI Shane,
Thats very helpful especially in 1834 the proof that he was the agent for Dumbarton Glass which is his mothers family connection. I hadn't found this in print as yet.
I wonder if the 1824 Printer is my John Carrick? In Piggots 1846 there was a Robert Carrick printer at 30 Bachelors Walk and John listed as Glass Manufacturer at Mary's Abbey.
I have no knowledge of him having a brother but in the early days they were the only 2 male Carricks listed I always wondered if Robert was a brother.
Do you know if there are any records to search for when people migrated from Scotland to Ireland? John his mother and siblings seem to have been in Dublin from at least 1824 when his first daughter was born. But I have never found any record of his father Alexander who was a writer and then a merchant. Don't know if he died in Ireland or Scotland. I thought it may be possible he brought the family out to Ireland to start selling glass for Dumbarton Glass but haven't found any record of this until your find in the 1834 Directory. Thanks for that. Babzi
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There are no records of travel between Scotland and Ireland - all part of the UK at that time. The only real way to establish when he moved to Ireland is to check for when records of him disappear in Scotland and/or details start to appear in Dublin.
Re the 1846 directory - I presume that should be Slater's 1846 directory.. rather than Pigot's. The only surviving Pigot's directory that I've come across that includes Dublin is dated 1824.
I doubt there was glass manufacturing taking place in Mary's Abbey, which is in the City Centre - maybe that was his office or residence ?. Most of this type of industry would have been either on the quays or on the outskirts of the city.
p.s. I had a quick look at Slater's 1846 for John Carrick and the entry is exactly the same is in Thom's 1848 - no mention of manufacturing, just warehouse. Robert the printer and stationer is at 30 Bachelor's Walk.
There are just two other Carricks in that index for that edition - just in case they have any connection -
Robert Given Carrick, proprietor of the Law Recorder, 23 Prussia St.
Michael Carrick, dealer in jewelery, 30 Wellington Quay
Pigot's 1824 shows a John Carrick, printer, at 29 Bachelor's Walk. I dont see any other Carrick listings for Dublin in that year.
Shane
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Babzi
How far back in time do you wish to go? I have a reference to a Simon Carrick in Dublin in 1692 (occupation unknown) if you would like it.
Regards Quaxer
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Hi Quaxer,
Well what I know of the Carricks is John was born Lanark Glasgow 1804 along with most of his siblings. His father was also born in Glasgow and the generation before Glasgow and Stirling.
I presume they came to Ireland for the Glass business but there may have already been family in Ireland already. I would gladly have any records you may have on any Carricks in Dublin Simon would be a good place to start. Thank you.
I am curious if John's father Alexander came to Dublin or died in Scotland. I haven't found any record of him anywhere, which makes me think he probably died in Ireland but there just isn't any record on line to search.
He was born 1779 in Glasgow and graduated from Glasgow uni as a writer in 1802 married in 1803. Later in his life he was a merchant.
Babzi
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Babzi
On Page 6 of Volume 6 of the Calendar of Ancient Records of Dublin there is a reference to a Richard Smith (a prisoner in Newgate Jail) seeking a remission of a fine of ten pounds impose for assaulting Frances, wife of Simon Carrick. The date ,as I stated was 1692.
Regards Quaxer
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thanks for that. Not sure if he is one of ours or not.
Babzi
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My gggrandfather owned one of the bottle factories in Ringsend. It's the one near where the current bus garage is and beside what was once a coal yard. Sirname is McDonnell but don't have his first name. My father says he can't remember, I'll try some of my uncles they might know. Is there away to check the ownership of companies from that period?
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The managers and sometimes owners are often listed in directories. What years do you think your gggrandfather may have owned the factory ?
Shane
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a glassworks and bottle plant is shown on the 1890s OSI map, located right beside where the bus depot is now - see : Ringsend Rd, Glassworks (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,717750,733882,7,9) (select the Historic 25" map, to see the c1890s map)
Shane
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Been doing a bit more research not sure if he actually owned it or was just high up in the chain. Just going from what my grandfather told my father. Apparently my gggrandfather had a few problems and lost what ever standing we had in the area.
My father thinks it was around the 1840s. We where browsing the historical maps on the Ordnance Survey Ireland website which got me back to trying trace my family back a bit. He at first thought it was the one thats on the grounds of the old bus garage but remembers my grandfather mentioning a coal yard. He said the name of the yard last night so will ask again this evening
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I dont think that Glassworks was built until after the 1840s... you can see an earlier view (c1840) on the 6" OSI maps.
I posted details before on the various glassworks around Ringsend I could find in directories on another thread here on Rootchat ... I see if I can find it a post a link..
Shane
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a possible connection in Thom's 1914
Ringsend Rd
Irish Glass Bottle Works Ltd
and nextdoor
Wallace Brothers, Ltd, ship owners and Coal Importers
also at Kingstown, Monkstown, Dalkey & Rathmines
office 2 D'Olier St
Shane
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Cool thanks I'll have a talk with my dad tonight see if he can remember some more info
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Sorry for delay. Took me longer than I thought to get up to my parents.
My dad has confirmed that he didn't own the glass works. His great grandfather owned the land where the current Dublin Bus garage is.
He has also said that we had a connection to a Ice factory, can't remember the name but a friend of his has a book on Ringsend and said there was a reference in there. I will try get a hold of it.
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Hi Babzi,
I have only just joined RootsChat and seen this post, hopefully you see this.
I am wondering if my family (and the brick wall I am trying to break through) may tie in with your family. My 3x great grandfather Frederick Carrick was a printer in Dublin, as was his brother Robert Carrick.
Frederick married Catherine Franklin in St Mary's parish in 1838, and at some stage they moved to England. I'm not sure when they moved, they were still in Dublin in 1841 and my great great grandfather Frederick Henry Carrick was born in Surrey in 1846, so somewhere inbetween those years. I have not been able to find the parents of Frederick, or any other children for him. Frederick Henry Carrick ended up in New Zealand where he married Marian Fowles in 1875, the announcement in the paper states he is the second son of Frederick Carrick of Dublin.
I know the family originated in Scotland and moved to Ireland, again I don't know when.
If these sound like they could be part of your family, I would love to try to work out the connection.
Angel
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Hi Angel,
Thanks for your enquiry. John Macauley Carrick did have a brother but I don't know his name. His father Alexander and his brother were buried in St Thomas Church Dublin. Unfortunately that Church burnt down and he mentioned them on a headstone in Mt Jerome Cemetery.
I have never found any records of the buriels for that Church.
I have never found a birth record for his brother but John and his 5 sisters were all born in Scotland John born 1804. The whole family moved to Ireland I believe in 1823/24. John married Ellen (surname unknown) and their first child was born 1827.
The only other Carrick Family in Dublin at the time was Michael and Robert Carrick. Michael was a broker and Robert was a Stationer. The earliest record I could find was 1829 Carrick and Sons Stationers at 29 Bachelor Walk Dublin.
I don't think they are brothers but I'm sure they are family connected. When Robert Carrick married Eliza Murphy John Carrick was the witness.
John's father was Alexander Carrick a writer (lawyer) at the time of the children's birth. I think John his parents and siblings came to Dublin to be an agent for the Dumbarton Glass company. John's sister married into the family and John's business from 1835 was in the Glass business.
I don't know if this helps you. I have a copy of the record that shows Frederick marrying Catherine Franklin and as it was in the St Mary's parish where John and Ellen lived in 5 Mary's Abbey i'm sure they are family.
regards
Babzi
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Hi Babzi,
Thanks for getting back to me. Frederick and his past have been a pretty solid brick wall for me, but hopefully I'm starting to crack it. I only recently found out about Robert through articles in the Freeman's journal which made references to his brother Frederick. The dates, place, job etc all tie in (as well as the fact they are mentioned several times as brothers) to make me confident they actually are brothers.
Thank you for this information, I'll have a dig around to see if I can find a connection with John and Ellen. It doesn't seem to be a common name in Dublin at the time and if they are in the same parish, they must be related somehow.
Thanks,
Angel
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Not sure if on the correct thread, apologies if I am not.
I have been trying for a long while to find out how many glass works there actually were around 1845, in Dublin.
I ask, because my great great grandfather married his first wife then and gave his father as working in the glass works. As the family came from Dublin i have been trying to find out more.
Both my great great grandfather AND his father were John Tutty. The older one born around 1795 time.
Thank you for any help given.
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https://www.logainm.ie/Eolas/Data/IHTA/dublin-3.pdf
see top of page 7 left hand side
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This afternoon, while looking through some old files (for weeding) I came across a cutting from The Irish Times of 4th June 2010 recording the death of Ms Mary Boydell ,an authority on the histoy of Irish Glass Making . There are references therein which may be helpful to those seeking information.
Felixquaxer