RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: islay 1 on Saturday 12 June 10 14:48 BST (UK)
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I'm hoping that someone may be able to guide me in the right direction for discovering if this note my father wrote about his grandfather makes sense.
He says that his g.grandfather had his own saddlery business,and that during the Boer War he emigrated to Canada with this business,(possibly, but not necessarily, to fulfil Canadian Government army contracts).The first Boer War dates are 1880-1881,and the second war 1899-1902,I think.
My gggrandad's name was Edward Smith,although a mystery note from grandad discovered recently says that he may,in fact,be called Edward Swan(n).I am guessing that the man was born around 1825 as he had a son born in Edinburgh in 1853,with his wife, Janet Mclaren.Where would be a good place to begin unravelling this puzzle?Any suggestions would be very gratefully received.Thank you.
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Do you know if he immigrated alone or brought a family with him? If he brought his family can you give some information about them such as birth dates and names. That could make the search easier. You can also check for passenger lists on Find my Past.
Canada was involved in the Second Boer War and sent troops and nursing sisters to Africa. If Edward Smith was born about 1825, he would have been in his 70's when he immigrated and that is quite old to move with a business. I'm not sure what Canada's involvement was in the first Boer War.
The site at Collections Canada also has census information as does Automated Genealogy.
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Thank you for replying.You have given me something to think about - especially about his age for emigrating with a business.Good point!I'll look up your links,thanks.
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Hi Islay,
I believe it would be quite possible for him to "transport" his business to Canada. The Canadian army was still using horses and he would have knowledge of making saddles and other things for them from his Boer War experience. Leather workers of any kind were in demand here then. I have several ancestors from about the same time whom were boot makers and leather workers so it seems your ancestor would have been im demand as well for his skills. He was likely a master craftsman showing young fellas the trade in Canada.
As verie say, the national archives is a good place to start for Boar War, passenger list and other info. The www.automgenealogyated.com site may be another to check the 1901, 1906 & 1911 federal consus info for him. Although it's a transcription site, it is easy and usefull to use.
Hope this helps,
JDC
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IGI reference for christening of Janet Swan 18 Nov 1857 Edinburgh and
also unnamed male 21 Aug 1863 Edinburgh with parents Edward Swan and Janet McLaren.
Have you found your family in Scottish census records - if so when do they disappear.
There is a family on the 1861 in St Cuthberts Edinburgh with all parties born in St Cuthberts
Edward Swan 44 coachbuilder
wife Janet 30
Robert 6 and Jessie (Janet) 3
Debbie
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Cosmac,how on earth did you find out about the unnames male b.Edinburgh 1863? I have been following this family9don't know if they maried),and have conjectured that the Robert,6,in the census you mentioned may have been my g.grandfather as a boy.I am struggling so much with this family.
I definitely know that my grandad's father was Robert smith,ship's rigger,who married Mary Ann Byron in Greenock,near Glasgow.On their marriage certificate,which I found at Scotland'speople,he cited his parents as Edward smith,baker and Janet smith m/s McLaren,and there my story ends.I cannot find any trace of their marriage,their deaths,nor where they lived at all.Robert says his birth was in Edinburgh in 1853,although on one later census he says 1856.
Apart from that I know absolutely nothing about this family and have been desperately trying to find them.All I do have is a scrap of paper my dad wrote saying that this Robert's father had a saddlery business and emigrated to Canada during the Boer War.Another piece of this puzzle is another letter my grandad wrote in 1990 when he was in his nineties, to the then Scottish Records Office asking for marriage and birth certificates for our grandparents Edward Swann and his son Robert,born 1820-1840 and 1840-1860 respectively,and a mention of a possible association with anengraver in metal with one of them.
How on earth all this fits together I just cannot,cannot unravel.We have never been aware that there were any Swanns in the family,so this letter from grandad wrote years ago is a complete mystery!I was enquiring to see if Dad's idea about the saddlery business could be true,wwhich would then negate the Swann connection.Am I confused,or what??
Thank you for your interest,though,and for your reply.Best wishes,Carolyn.
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good morning,
Sorry, it should have been www.automatedgenealogy.com.
JDC
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IGI submission for an Edward- Birth August 9 1815
Christening Sept. 1815 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midl
Parents Edward Swan & Elizabeth maxwell
Also in same file is an Ann Swan Birth Dec. 20 1816
Christening Jan 7 1817 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midl
Parents Alexander swan & Ann Merchant
Have you followed the families through the censuses to see if they remain/change occupation, as a big jump from coachbuilder to baker to saddler, but not unheard of ...There may be an error made somewhere, or someone had something to hide and falsified information...
I suppose could also consider Robert may also have been adopted? I imagine you've checked SP for a birth of a Robert Swan/Smith c.1853 mother Janet Mclaren ?
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Where did the ancestors come to in Canada? Was Robert not with them? There's information missing here that must be known?
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....all this was found already in rootschat Scotland, ( not by islay) way back in May...there should have been a link to that!
I do not understand why the more mystery there is in a family search the more we tend to delve into it..only to find that there are several other posts on the same subject...Roberts parents died in Scotland, 1868 !!
My conclusion is that Robert made up stories...and hopefully everyone reads this before looking for anything else on this subject...I can't believe I wasted so much time on it...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,456584.0.html
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JJ,I am so sorry that you feel I have wasted time over this,that was absolutely not my intention,but although I am aware of the deaths of the Swan family in 1868 that you are referring to,I have strong doubts that this is not necessarily my family at all,indeed how could they be if there was an emigration to Canada during the Boer War with a saddlery business?The dates do not match up at all.Also,if the family name really was Smith,since we have never heard of a Swann connection before,then a finding of Smith coming over would also rule out these Swanns as a red herring,and allow me to follow the Smith family line.My sincere apologies if you think I have been wasting your time,I just hoped that coming at this mystery from another angle may conclusively prove things one way or another.I am most grateful for the rootschat helpand advice I have received.thank you for that.
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Well, then why was the surname Swan even mentioned in all these posts if you don't think it is a truth? Did you find a Robert Smith with an Edward Smith on any census? Any births of a Smith where the mother is a Janet McLaren? There is the information that a Robert Smith married Byron which you claim to be your ancestors which is known for certain...
Quote from HUME:
Was your great-grandmother Mary Byron? If so, Robert married her in Greenock, 1889. At the time, he was 32 (Mary 22). He gave his parents as Edward Smith, baker (deceased) and Janet Smith m.s. [maiden surname] McLaren (also deceased)
To what region in Canada did this man Smith, the saddler, emigrate before he returned to England, became a baker and died before the marriage in 1889?? You've hung your hat on half the information, but need to prove some things before asking us to look for someone within dates that aren't even feasible.
You say coming over? You live in Canada, then?
By the way I do feel sorry for you that your ancestors are so hard to find...It is a mess, and these mysteries make for great hunts. But be honest and forthcoming with all information, such as another board has done a lot of searches on my behalf, and link to it...and think about it, the marriage information negates the family history.
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Dear JJ,thank you for replying.I can tell that you are not pleased,and that was truly never my intention at all.I have a complete mystery to solve.I am trying to come at it from a different angle to the ones we have explored here.No,I am not in Canada,but in England.The confusion has arisen for me like this.My family name is Smith,and always has been,as far as I knew.My grandfather's father was Robert Smith,b1853 in Ediunburgh,and as Hume so kindly discovered,married a Mary Ann Byron(I knew that part)in Greenock,and he told me who the parents were;Edward Smith and janet McLaren,according to the marriage certificate,Edward a baker apparently.
I have struggled so many,many times,and in vain to find Robert's birth certificate - even on Scotlandspeople numerous searches again and again show me nothing matching all three names.Nor can I find any family called Smith(Edward,Janet and Robert)in any census anywhere in Scotland or England at any time.However,I am just starting this ancestry with a new computer which I have not used one at all before May,so with my inexperience in both genealogy and IT,I am so very grateful for any help.
!Recently,dad's brother,my uncle passed away and his widow sent me any family documents that she had.Amongst them was the totally surprising letter grandad had penned to the Scottish Records Office in 1990,requesting information about his grandparents and using the name of Swann - this was the first time I had ever heard of that name in our family.Even more recently,after my correspondence with Hume I found a scrap of paper my dad had written about his father's grandfather having the saddlery business and going to Canada with it.Yet another mystery to tie in.Hence my confusion in desperately trying to explain how these pieces of a puzzle come together. to tie together using either Smiths or Swanns going to Canada,nor to finding them in Scotland anywhere.
My apologies again,
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You need to look carefully through the Scotland censuses yourself and also look into the homes within proximity for clues...Sometimes when a father had same name as son, they went by other names...Maybe Edward 2 is now ___Edward...or looking in next generation , was your Robert born Edward Robert and using middle name?...
I'd solve that mystery before looking to Canada for a story that may be totally out of wack...
But if you want YOU can look for Edward Smith in the passenger lists and there are many...but with no known age and with no occupation listed it doesn't help to further your cause... Here's a start with tall the Ed++ http://www.rootschat.com/links/08yj/
also Castle Gardens through which many came to Canada via the U.S....those are the ones we hope they use as occupations are sometimes listed....but nothing seems to match http://www.castlegarden.org/searcher.php
Resource page for passenger lists http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,214795.0.html
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Thank you,JJ.
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HI Carolyn we are related i am also the grand child of Mary Byron and Robert Swan Smith. They all moved to Greenock and then Robert Swan died up in Glasgow where most of the family stayed. He died in Partick I have the records. If you can in some way private message me.
not sure how this works. Thank you Hume you have solved the mystery of the Swan thing for me. I am just curious why it was done but it must have been innocent as he named every one of his children Swan Smith so he was not hiding his roots and clearly wanted the name Swan remembered and marked. There is a Robert Swan Smith in all subsequent generations.