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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: findmyfamily on Friday 11 June 10 19:30 BST (UK)
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hello everyone I am new here and new to trying to find my family....yeah I said trying lol
Firstly I dont have any contact with living relatives what so ever but to be honest its the dead ones i am interested but the living ones hold all the information.
so how do i go about finding this information out. my family are a bit of a nightmare and none of them talk to each other so here is what I have its not much)
Mothers side: Mcvier/Reid
Names of potentially living people removed
my grandmother is one of 11 children she is Sarah McIver (1919) and married Alber E Reid (1919), some of her siblings are Margaret(1914), Winnifred(1923), Jane(1918) rest of them I dont know
er maiden an
Fathers side : Langtry & ?? has even less information
Names of potentially living people removed
his father was william langtry married to a margaret her maiden name i dont know
they had 3 children twins and an older sister
I am totally stupmed as to where to go to find anything out about them so if anyone can point me in the right direction then that would be great even better if they crop up in your tree somewhere
i thought I may enjoy this but ....well you know what thought did ;D
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sarahs birth reference
Births Jun 1919
McIver Sarah Liverpool 8b 20 .... mothers maiden name is Tootle.
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this looks like her parents marriage
Marriages Dec 1908
McIVER Stephen Liverpool 8b 62
TOOTLE Sarah Jane Liverpool 8b 62
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Blimey where did you find that................I got the tootle earlier today as a maiden name then it went cold so thought was wrong person alltogether.
many thanks for that, these are not that distant people that I have never heard of ie stephen, apparantly there are loads of these mcivers lol unlike the langtry side
thank you so much
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Hello findmyfamily and a warm welcome to Rootschat! ;D gortonboy has given you an excellent start on your McIver tootle side....all births, marriages and deaths are found at www.freeBMD after 1837 for England. You can give it a try and learn to use this great index looking for your William Langtry marrying a woman named Margaret around the time of Brian's birth. do give it a try, as it will hone your research skills! And, ALL of us here at Rootschat are more than willing to help you...let us know how you do! Pat
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Hello, and welcome to Rootschat.
As Gortonboy has found some magic for you already, based on that I took at look at another source of information.
My best suggestion to you is that you post another message on this thread - once you have 3 messages posted it is possible to send PMs (personal messages) to other members and I think I might be able to help you.
Perhaps you'd like to post your third message and then send a message to me?
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Hello again.......looking at www.freeBMD and there is a Sarah Jane Tootle born March Qtr 1887 in Liverpool district. Ordering her birth cert will give you her Father's name and her Mother's maiden name. Also, it's possible that a Rootschatter who has access to the 1891 English census may spot her with her family!! Sorry, I do not currently have access.....Do try to duplicate these finds to learn how to search that great website. ;D Pat
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Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1908
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MCIVER Stephen TOOTLE Sarah J Liverpool, St. Peter Liverpool 2122LP/102/356
so now you know they married at St Peter.
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wow i am so pleased......dont feel so much an orphan now lol
thank you
the free bdm is like pulling teeth but at least i have grannies parents and where they married now xx
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Well, you've hit your three posts so I've sent you a message. Look at the top of the screen and it should tell you when it arrives.
Maggie1895
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Thomas Tootle, son of Sarah Jane, seems to have been born in Liverpool in Q1 of 1906 (vol 8b, page 25).
What that's led me to wonder which of 3 possibilities is correct:
1. if whether Thomas was born to Sarah as a single mother, 2 years before her marriage to Stephen McIver,
2. if he was born to Sarah but Stephen was his natural father (less likely as he had the surname Tootle after their marriage)or
3. if Sarah was married and possibly widowed before their marriage - in which case her maiden name wouldn't have been Tootle.
I'll have a look for a marriage for a Tootle in the year or two before Thomas's birth to see if we can establish the last one - at least their name wasn't Smith!
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Well, I can't see any earlier marriage to a Mr Tootle so let's assume that the Sarah Jane Tootle born in 1887 is the lady in question.
in 1891, when she was a child of 4:
William Tootle, head of household, Dock Labourer, 28
Alice J Tootle, wife, 27
Children are Mary aet 6, Sarah J aet 4 and William H aet 1
All born in Liverpool
Not sure of the address - looks like 'something Court' - the address before is Clement Street and it's in the St Martin district of Liverpool
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hiya maggie
thanks for your help.....far more mcivers than i ever anticipated :o
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1901 census:
Tootles are still at the same place,
William. Alice, Mary or May, Sarah and William jrn all just 10 years older but a lucky family because all 3 children seem to have survived, now joined by:
John aet 7, George aet 5, Alice aet 1.
possible McIvers
Stephen McIver, 52
Mary, 49
Edward 17
Stephen 15.
Address looks like 48 Gerrard Street, Islington district of Liverpool
Stephen snr is a Basket Weaver, self employed, working from home. Born in Ireland
Mary was born in Liverpool, Lancashire, as were the boys. Both Edward and Stephen are working as 'scavengers'. That's not one I've come across before but I'm sure someone on this board will be able to enlighten us both as to exactly what that means.
There's no guarantee that this 1901 census entry is 'your' Stephen McIver, you would need to do much more cross checking to be sure, but I'm afraid the one below looks as if it is yours. I didn't go looking for this, it just came up:
Private Stephen McIver, Service No 3933
1st/8th Bn, Kings Liverpool Rgt
Died on 11th September 1916
Remembered on the Thiepval Memorial
Husband of Sarah J. McIver, of 22, St. Sylvester Place, Tatlock St., Liverpool.
Sorry.
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hi maggie...this is where the problems start,,,if Stephen died in 1915,,,,then sarah mciver b 1919 cannot be Stephens child ??
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Aah.
Totally see your point, Gortonboy. So either there were two Stephen McIvers married to a Sarah Jane, or we have been pursuing the wrong line.
The death record came up in a general search on A******, and I went to the Commonwealth War Graves listing to check it out. That's where the line relating to 'husband of Sarah J' came from.
The other possibility I can think of is that Sarah continued to increase her family after Stephen's death? I had found that in the last census to be available Stephen and Sarah were together, with Mary age 18 months and Thomas Tootle age 5, born in 1906, and you had already found Sarah and Stephen's marriage was in 1908.
I think that is less likely considering the number of brothers and sisters findmyfamily says Sarah had. If Sarah Jane married again, wouldn't the rest of her children have her new husband's name?
It all looks like a glorious mystery where we need to go to basics and work back from the one thing findmyfamily already had - the birth of her grandmother in 1919.
My best guess would be that the birth certificate for Sarah McIver b 1919 needs to be checked to confirm exactly who her parents were. Does that make sense to you or have I missed something?
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that is exactly what i said....we really need the info from one of the childrens birth certs,,sarah maybe,,,who was born after stephen died..... ;)
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You are so right - it's so easy to get caught up in new discoveries, even though the only way to be sure is to start at the one piece of information you have that is certain, and plod back from there.
Wish I remembered that more often!!
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Hi welcome to roots chat
I am from the Tootle family of Liverpool,
In my notes I have the following:
Sarah Jane Tootle married Stephen Mciver 1908 St Peters Liverpool although I haven't checked the parish registers for this marriage her possible parents are William H Tootle and Alice Jane Ashton Married 1883 St Peters Liverpool, William H Tootle is my great nans brother. You say they had children, Margaret 1914, Jane 1918, and Winifred 1923, I haven't been able to find these children, but I have found these others all mothers surname Tootle:
John Mciver 1911 L'pool 8b 17
Alice J 1914 L'pool 8b 24
Sarah 1919 L'pool 8b20 ("your grandmother")
Teresa 1920 L'pool 8b 46
Susan 1922 L'pool 8b 54
Frances 1924 L'pool 8b 13
Gerard 1926 L'pool 8b 75
Joseph 1927 L'pool 8b 80
I have also seen the death of the Stephen Mciver in 1916, and they were living in the right area when he died, but im still a bit baffled at this, as you can see other children have been born after this death, there is a possibility sarah may have been living with another mciver after Stephens death and they may not have married.
I think your way forward is to get Sarah 1919 birth cert to be sure Sarah Jane Tootle is her mother, and also I would get a birth cert for one of the older children after 1916 to see if a fathers name appears on the cert, other than spend money out if you are local to liverpool look at the baptism registers St Peters and St Nicholas and Anns to see if any of these children were baptised.
I can help you with the Tootle side of the family.
I will send u a private message
Jan
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Jan, do come back and post if you or findmyfamily get any definite information. I was sad to find what I was sure must be Stephen McIver's death, and then realised that Gortonboy was right - if that's him, where did all those later children come from?
Would love to hear if you ever solve the mystery
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well certainly let you know what we figure out ::)
on a brighter note I have traced the names of the family that moved to pennsylvania - mcivers again...need I say more, they sure do get around ;D
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the mystery is solved ;D
the mystery was wether my gran was born from tootles/mciver or cooney/mciver, well it turns out that my gran comes from the cooney/mcivers details are:
Sarah mciver born to john mciver and maria cooney
maria cooney is born to a jane cooney b.1883 d. 1965 no father named on birth certificate
jane cooney born to edward cooney who was married to maria moran back in mayo in ireland, dont have details for edward cooney's birth or death but Maria Moran was born to a John Moran who was married to a majory.
Jane cooney appears to have had her daughter maria cooney out of marriage, jane cooney then went on to marry thomas fagan in 1884 and then there are 7 more children. I have copies of birth and marriage certs for jane cooney and maria cooney and photographs from another ancestoral site.
thanks everyone who tried to solve the puzzle
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Heard my cousin Eddie Reid had passed (we were close at one time)-went looking. My mother was Margaret Clark- nee McIver. from St Helens . Your dates match.
Although I live in Canada, I have info you may want. But I am still interested re cousin Eddie
Regards
Ed Clark
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Hi Ed
It's Catherine, Barbara Finney's (nee McIver) daughter. We were in touch a few years ago, when you kindly sent me some family photos. I have tried to send you a personal message, though it has been rejected stating your mailbox is full.
Best wishes
Catherine
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Clare/ Catherine. I'm useless at this
email: try Removed
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An old Gaelic saying about the Clan MacIver that they were immune to the bite of a serpent! (Adder) ;D
Skoosh
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Try again, you need a higher post count which you now have before the pm system works for you
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php