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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: wjough on Friday 11 June 10 12:46 BST (UK)

Title: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Friday 11 June 10 12:46 BST (UK)
Trying to find birth details of Winifred born c 1909 in the Peckham area. Also her father James Edward Roberts who died early 1900's and was a licensed victualler. At the time of her marriage in January 1928 she was living at 120 Sumners road,Peckham.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: Mort29 on Friday 11 June 10 12:48 BST (UK)
where have you looked so far?

Do you have a middle name for her?

Checked the 1911 census to verify her parents and her birthplace?
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 11 June 10 12:49 BST (UK)
Have you looked on freebmd for her birth reg

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com

When you find her fathers birthplace from the 1911 entry - you can search for his birth on the same website
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 11 June 10 12:53 BST (UK)
Using the free 1911 index shows the following Winifred Roberts with a James Edward Roberts in the same household

Georgina Winifred aged 7 living in Staines Middlesex

Winifred 6mths living in Wantage Berkshire

Winifred Iris Louisa aged 3 living in Hackney London

USING THE FREE 1911 INDEX

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

Once you find the right person - make a note of the county and district in which they were living

Return to the index and in PERSONAL DETAILS - just put the surname of the family - nothing else

In LOCATION - Select the county and below it - type in the district

In OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSEHOLD - show the name of the person you have found on the index

Click SEARCH


You will have to buy credits to view the full entries

Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: Mort29 on Friday 11 June 10 12:54 BST (UK)
Camberwell would be the Registration District for Peckham - if indeed she was born there as well as marrying there.

Middle name Alexandra perhaps?
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 11 June 10 12:59 BST (UK)
No middle name shown on the marriage reg - she married Camberwell March qtr 1928
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: Mort29 on Friday 11 June 10 13:03 BST (UK)
yes, I saw that the OP had detailed the marriage. Middle names were not always stated.

and sadly that her father died early 1900s, so obviously there is more information to be gleaned.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 11 June 10 13:04 BST (UK)
If she was born 1908/09 - father may still have been alive in 1911
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: Mort29 on Friday 11 June 10 13:07 BST (UK)
yes, would be good to know how early 1900s after her birth.

what I was driving at was if her fathers death is known about, what other details may be known.

you still there wjough ?
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Friday 11 June 10 13:22 BST (UK)
Thanks CaroleW and Mort29 for the interest.
I checked the 1911 census a long time ago and they sent me on a false trail.Until recently I presumed that the Winifred born 1909 in Walworth was the one but I now know that this is wrong. Perhaps she was born at an earlier date. The Walter James Joughin she married was born in 1898. She had no middle name that I am aware of.
I haven't found any concrete evidence of her on freeBMD, but the Wantage one is worth a further look.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 11 June 10 13:47 BST (UK)
Was she 19 on the marriage cert hence birthyear around 1909 so Walter was about 10 or 11 years older than her
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: Mort29 on Friday 11 June 10 13:55 BST (UK)
Marriage witnesses all accounted for?
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Friday 11 June 10 14:01 BST (UK)
Yes she was 19 at time of marriage.
I notice an error of mine. The death of her father is shown as before Winifred's marriage so could be any time up to 1928.
I've looked again at freeBMD and theonly likely looking ones ar March 1909 West Ham or September 1909 Westham or Lambeth.
I have applied to GRO for a birth certificate but I think they will send me the wrong one again. Also it now takes over two weeks to arrive.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: Mort29 on Friday 11 June 10 14:04 BST (UK)
.... and marriage witnesses?
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Friday 11 June 10 14:16 BST (UK)
Aunt Annie and her husband were witnesses. Both long dead. Haven't found any of there family yet.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: LizzieW on Saturday 12 June 10 11:33 BST (UK)
Quote
I have applied to GRO for a birth certificate but I think they will send me the wrong one again. Also it now takes over two weeks to arrive.

I've recently found that certs are taking about 3 days from ordering to arrival.  Don't know why you think they  take two weeks, that was what happened just before the price went up.  My guess is that far fewer people are now ordering, so they get the certs out much quicker.

Lizzie
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: Daisypetal on Saturday 12 June 10 13:35 BST (UK)
Hi,

Do you have any info that Winifred was born in Peckham other than she was married there?
WW1 would have caused alot of people to move, her father might have been in the army and his family could have moved with him?

This looks like the reference for her divorce,

http://www.rootschat.com/links/08w2/

does anone know what info they would have, maybe her DOB?


Regards,
Daisy
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Saturday 12 June 10 19:00 BST (UK)
It's nearly three weeks now since I ordered Winifreds birth certificat from GRO.
I now believe that she was born in West Ham, Essex v4a p254.
The nearest guess I have to her father is James Edward Roberts married either Annie Arnold
16 August 1891 or Emily Smith 6 August 1893 in Walthamstow Essex.
The 1911 census doesn't recognise either Winifred or James.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Friday 02 July 10 12:52 BST (UK)
It's nearly three weeks now since I ordered Winifreds birth certificat from GRO.
I now believe that she was born in West Ham, Essex v4a p254.
The nearest guess I have to her father is James Edward Roberts married either Annie Arnold
16 August 1891 or Emily Smith 6 August 1893 in Walthamstow Essex.
The 1911 census doesn't recognise either Winifred or James.
Today 2nd July I've finally received a certificate from GRO. As expected it is the wrong one.
I think i'll give up.
Anyway this thread seems to have run it's course and can be removed.
Thanks to everone for trying to help.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: avm228 on Friday 02 July 10 13:23 BST (UK)
Have you investigated whether she was part of the Roberts family who in 1901 were in Bromley St Leonards, Poplar (RG13/350/138/6)? The head of that family was a James Edward Roberts who died in Mar qtr 1908 aged 44.

He seems to have been a commercial traveller in 1901, however - not a licensed victualler.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Friday 02 July 10 13:52 BST (UK)
I have a James Edward who married Minnie Cross or Mary Ann Chaplin in 1890 (1c 727) in Poplar and appears to be the same who died 1908 (1c 335) in Poplar, But how can I make a connection with him when I can't even find my own mothers birth.?
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: avm228 on Friday 02 July 10 14:00 BST (UK)
James appears to have married Mary Ann Elizabeth Chaplin (16 Feb 1890, Bromley St Leonard).

She's Mary A E in the 1901 Roberts household I mentioned above, and there's a Chaplin in the household.

Have you looked for her as a widow in 1911 to see whether she has a daughter Winifred?
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Saturday 03 July 10 09:45 BST (UK)
I have at long last received a birth cert from GRO. As expected it is the wrong one.
The only one I haven't tried on Findmypast  was born in St.Pancras district but i've run out of credit again.
There always seems to be an uncertainty whether this refers to north London or a district of Newington south London.
Title: Re: Winifred Roberts
Post by: wjough on Saturday 03 July 10 09:48 BST (UK)
Reffering to James Roberts, I have a copy of a birth cert between Mary Ann and James dated 1890and in Bromley.
I cannot find either of them in the 1901 or 1911 census.