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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Jaffajen on Friday 11 June 10 07:11 BST (UK)
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Hello. I am new to this site and am trying to break down a few brick walls, the toughest being my gg grandmother Eleanor. She arrived in Sydney, Australia in 1851 with her 13yr old son Albert. Both surnames are noted as ROWLAND. The shipping papers say she was 31 yrs old, born in Mauritius to parents whose names appear barely discernable, but appear to be George & Alice HALL at a guess. I have traced Albert as being born Albert HALL in Gloucester in 1837. Albert appears in London in 1841 living with Eleanor who was born "in foreign parts". He is still a HALL, she is a POWTNEY. Cannot find marriage for her to a Powtney or a Rowland!! Also cannot find death certificate for her in NSW. Does anyone have any suggestions? The Mauritius thing is the biggest hurdle. Thanks, Jen
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Hiya Jen....and welcome to Rootschat.....difficult for you this....I have found this, and it has a slight difference , but it IS an Extracted babtism record
Albert Hall Christened 15th January 1837 at Saint Nicholas , Gloucester,England
mothers name ELLEN (not Eleanor )....NO father named
so could Ellen have changed her name to Eleanor at a later date ?...maybe we should try and find a birth for ELLEN HALL in Mauritius ?
of course this may not be your Albert, but it`s the only one I can find b 1837....may I ask where you got your info that Albert was b 1837 ?...was it through the census ?....seeing as he was christened 15th January , he may well have been born late December 1836........allan :)
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Hi
I saw that baptism too Allan. I see James and Ellen Powtney and Albert Hall living in the same parish, St Nicholas, Gloucester in the 1841. I wonder if I am looking at a different census to you Jen as you say you saw them in London?
Evie
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That`s a good find Evie....So you reckon that Ellen Hall married a James Powtney (presuming Eleanor was Ellen that is )...so I would think they married in that Parish...ie Saint Nicholas ,Gloucester....let`s try and find it then...allan ;)
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I cannot see a marriage in the parish and the dates range from 1558 - 1882
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Hi There.....
There is a birth registered for a Eleanor M Hall in Mauritius, but it was in 1838
Her father was serving with the 12th regiment . vol 955 page 56
JeannieR
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Thank you Allan, Evie & Jeannie for your replies. I am going on IGI data for Albert's christening in Gloucester, Jan 15, 1837 as you have also found. The lack of a father is not helping one bit! As Albert was given his mother's surname of HALL I surmise that she was single. I have searched for a marriage for Eleanor (who called herself Ellen for short) in Gloucester also, Evie, and turned up nothing for POWTNEY or ROWLAND. Oh, and of course I meant Gloucester, not London re 1841 census. Jeannie, how did you find that Hall birth reference? I figured Ellen's father was probably in the military or administration, but I don't know where to look for relevant info. I did stumble across some info on Major-General Gage John HALL who was acting Governor of Mauritius at the time of Ellen's birth, but it gave no personal details of his family ... It's interesting that what I read as 'George' on the shipping papers, could very well be 'Gage". Any tips on researching in Mauritius? Any tips on where I could find info in the National Archives in London? I am going to London and Gloucester in August (I live in Australia) and plan to do some digging while there. I really appreciate your help. Cheers, Jen
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Hi Jen
Out of curiosity I had a look for Gage John Hall in the census and he appears in 1851 with wife Harriet in Registration district of Exeter. It might be worth having a look at the shipping list again to try and decipher who Eleanor's parents were.
I haven't found them in 1841 yet.
The National Archives have a will which can be downloaded online for £3. 50. It is a chance but I would have thought if Eleanor was his daughter she may well be mentioned. unless of course he had disowned her. The will was in 1854
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08w0/
I have never been to the National Archives so I cannot help there I'm afraid.
Evie
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Hi Evie
Thanks for your research. I should have mentioned earlier that Ellen's parents were noted as 'both dead' on the 1851 shipping list. I, too, went looking for them in the 1841 but no luck. I looked for George & Gage.
I've just pulled out the shipping list (again) and I think I'll discard the Gage HALL idea. Some of the document is very faint, but there is an 'r' in the name - back to looking for George! Alice appears quite clearly. Albert's father appears to be Edward (and yes, I've gone down a few tracks looking for Edward ROWLAND). I even checked convict lists, thinking that maybe the family came out to join him (that happened a lot).
Some time ago I searched for a marriage for George & Alice and turned up a marriage in Lancashire between George HALL & Alice SHARPLES on 25/4/1819. Don't think that's them, as Ellen is born c.1819/1820 (based on age of 31 in 1851), but maybe? Just because Ellen was living in Gloucester in 1841 doesn't necessarily mean that her parents came from there, does it?
My puzzlement is why George & Alice were in Mauritius? Can someone direct me to any good military records? Maybe Alice was a 'native' of Mauritius and they married there? I'm slowly trawling the National Archives website to find relevant indexes ....
By the way, the HALL is certainly correct, as male children born in the subsequent 3 generations were named Albert Hall ROWLAND. Even my mother got the moniker! As the third daughter born, her parents must have despaired of a son and named her Alberta Hall ROWLAND. Then they had a real Albert, and he in turn named his son Albert Hall. It stopped there, though. My cousin Albert didn't like the name and so tradition was broken ...
Sorry to rave on. Thanks again for your help Evie.
Jen
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Hiya Jen...just checked on lan-opc and the George Hall /Alice Sharples is mentioned at St Peter , Bolton...it states that George was a Weaver by trade....does this help any ?....if he wasn`t a Weaver I think you can discard this marriage...allan :)
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Thanks Allan.
What is lan-opc? This is a new one for me ... getting occupations is facinating! I agree that the HALL/SHARPLES marriage seems a long shot - seemed so at the time.
Back to brick wall ... again ... What would an English weaver be doing in Mauritius?
Cheers,
Jen
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Hello Jen......
I found the information, re the oversea birth on www.findmypast.com
This site has all British Census 1841-1911, and all birth, marriage and deaths, including those overseas........
I have just found this birth, and I am quite excited......
Ellenor HALL, Mauritius. 1823 . volume 131
My eyes are not too good , these days, and it is quite blurred, so the date could be 1822. Perhaps some one will do a double check ? It is in The Army Chaplains indices. There also appears to have been a John Hall 1833, and a Maria Hall 1834.
I don't think Ellen / Ellenor was married to Mr Powtney. He was still alive, and living in Gloucester, in 1851, and stated that he was a widower.
You can apply online for the certificate, if you think it is looking good www.gro.gov.uk
I did also look for the deaths of George and Alice Hall. These did not take place in Mauritius.
I will hqve another look though.
Kind regards
JeannieR
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Hiya Jen....www.lan-opc.org.uk is a Lancashire Parish records site going back to the 1500`s....NOT ALL Parish records are submitted.....www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb is the Cheshire Parish Records Database with similarv records back to 1500`s...again ...NOT ALL records are submitted yet....allan :)
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You could join this Mauritius mailing list and post a query.
http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/MUS/AFR-MAURITIUS.html
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Hi Ya All,
Thank you soooo much guys. I just love the geanological community! I've had so much help from far-flung rellies over the past 2 years, and now complete strangers are helping me - I feel so humbled ... If I can help with Aussie research please ask!
To Jeannie - I was a subscriber to findmypast for a while, but found it less informative than ancestry.com, so let it lapse. I'll sign up again if you think it's really worthwhile??? I am intrigued with your discovery of some HALLs. Ancestry.com has turned up the best results so far for my research, and I've kept that one going - I'm retired and the cash just aint coming in any more (less so since the GFC!!).
Hello Suffolk Sue! Thanks for your imput. I went to your link, but I am a Mac user and I was told I should be using Windows on Explorer ... Yeah, I'm Mac using Firefox ...
To Allan - are there parish record sites for Gloucestershire? To everyone I should say I'm an Aussie and not up on geography of England.....
I'm just loving your help, especially as I'm heading to the UK in August!!! VVVVV exciting for this girl.
Cheers,
Jenni
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Jen....
Pleased to be able to help.......
I know the feeling about being retired and cash flow . At the moment though, I would rather go without new clothes, than do without my genealogy sites. I have a full subscription to findmypast, and Ancestry.co.uk....so feel free to contact me, for any help.....
I started my research 7 years ago, and without this site, I don't think I would have got anywhere. I only had the address where my mother was born in 1917. My grandmother was using her family nick name on the census's, and it took me a age to track her down. However, I am now back to the 1720's with the Hughes family.......
Good luck, and keep asking the questions......
Jeannie
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Thanks Jeannie.
I've bought some credits on findmypast and trawled the Army Chaplains Birth Indices. I found the entry you mentioned ... to my eyes it looks like 1826! Could it be my Ellen? She would have been 11 yrs old when Albert was born!! Where can one look up the folio?
To Suffolk Sue - I have been successful (I think) in posting a thread in the Mauritius section of rootsweb. Fingers crossed.
Cheers,
Jen
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To Suffolk Sue - Success! I registered with rootsweb and posted, and am now corresponding with two very helpful gentlemen - one in Mauritius and another in France. Unfortunately the Mauritian genealogy site (via Henri in France) is all in French! I do know some French-speakers locally who luckily are 'into' family research, so Hopefully a lifeline may appear.
My continuing thanks to you all. Any ideas you come up with are always welcome.
Cheers
Jen
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Brilliant Jen, hope it brings about a result for you. Good luck ;D