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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: AlKar on Thursday 10 June 10 19:29 BST (UK)

Title: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Thursday 10 June 10 19:29 BST (UK)
Margaret Doel married William Alcorn Feb. 22, 1846. Claggan, Horn Head, Clondahorky. We are quite that William is my wife's great grandfather. (father of Augustus of Horn Head). Can't find the name "Doel" anywhere else.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: derrylass on Thursday 10 June 10 20:33 BST (UK)
Could be Margaret Doyle - there is a son Thomas born 24 Sep 1865 in Dunfanaghy to William Alcorn and Margaret Doyle (IGI index)

There is a John Doyle on Clondahorkey Tithe Applotment Book 1833
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/clondahorkytithes.htm
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Thursday 10 June 10 21:15 BST (UK)
I have an old home video in which father-in-law John Alcorn definitely says 'Doel'  or 'Dowal' as versus 'Doyle" when asked his grandmother's maiden name. You can see it on Youtube 
                             http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCLvQRjdBm8

Thanks.
wk
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Friday 11 June 10 10:48 BST (UK)
Griffith's valutions 1857, George, Gustavus, James and William Alcorn listed at Claggan, Clondahorky
Http://Freepages.genealogy.rootsweb,ancestry.com/~donegal/griffiths.xl.txt

Moderator's Note: Link doesn't work so here's a different site to search Griffith's Valuation by name or place: www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Friday 11 June 10 14:24 BST (UK)
This is definitely my wife's family. Quite certain that William (Margaret Doel) is the father of Augustus, (Isabella Stewart) my wife's grandfather. We have info. on Augustus. We believe James is the father of George; however, we don't know their relationship to William or Gustavus. Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Saturday 12 June 10 10:14 BST (UK)
went through www.google.com when the box came up typed in Alcorn of clondahorky when the pages came up one of them was The Stewarts in Ireland and under the heading - Finlay Stewart to Elizabeth Alcorn 1881 church of Ireland Clondahorky but it would not let me open the page
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 12 June 10 10:57 BST (UK)
went through www.google.com when the box came up typed in Alcorn of clondahorky when the pages came up one of them was The Stewarts in Ireland and under the heading - Finlay Stewart to Elizabeth Alcorn 1881 church of Ireland Clondahorky but it would not let me open the page

It's not difficult to provide a link (just copy and paste URL from top of your computer screen) and it makes it much easier for other people to find the sources you've mentioned.
Here's the Stewart webpage-
http://thestewartsinireland.com/valuations.html
And this is the page with marriage of Finlay Stewart to Elizabeth Alcorn (this is just a listing of records and there is no link to open up for further details)-
http://thestewartsinireland.com/valuations.html#Donegal
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Sunday 13 June 10 11:09 BST (UK)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie.
1901 census Augustus Alcorn living at 2 Claggan with his family he was 45, Isabella was 42, In 1911 Augustus was living at on 15 Claggan he was 65, Isabella was 58. John (son) 15, Kathleen (daughter)
other Alcorn living at different house at Claggan to many to type.
I don't think they know how old they are they must keep guessing? 
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Monday 14 June 10 10:45 BST (UK)
IGI Individual Records
Margaret Doel married William Alcorn 22.2.1846 Clondahorky, Donegal no. 0394, Batch no. M701625, Source Call No. 0101276
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 14 June 10 10:49 BST (UK)
IGI Individual Records
Margaret Doel married William Alcorn 22.2.1846 Clondahorky, Donegal no. 0394, Batch no. M701625, Source Call No. 0101276


394 is the page number in the civil register.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Tuesday 15 June 10 10:44 BST (UK)
what a good site www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml is thank you for putting it on this site.

You can read about the name Doel on site: www.surnamedb.com

Doel is a german name variat of Dole which is French origin.  It has a good write up of the name on this site worth a visit.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Wednesday 16 June 10 10:45 BST (UK)
Margaret and William Alcorn are listed on the IFHF site church marriage 1846, co donegal.  You can look for free at the Index but if you want to view the document you have to pay 5Euros.

Irish Family History Foundation
Main Street
New Bridge
Co. Kildare

Http//ifhf.brsgenealogy.com http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/

e-mail: info[at]ifhf.ie

Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [at] with @
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Friday 18 June 10 16:17 BST (UK)
Thank you all for your info. I'm thinking that "Doel" may have originated as "Dowall" or McDowell. I couldn't find any other records of "Doel" in Horn Head, Dunfanaghy, or Clondahorky, Donegal. There was a Margaret Doel in England. No connection. Unless William Alcorm met here somewhere else and brought her home to Horn Head. Doubtful.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: derrylass on Friday 18 June 10 18:23 BST (UK)

I still think that Doel may have sometimes been transcribed as Doyle, Dowell
http://www.doyle.com.au/ancient.htm
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Friday 18 June 10 18:42 BST (UK)
That's possible. We know for certain that this is "our" 'William Alcorn' from Horn Head, Clondahorky, Dunfanaghy, and that this is his marriage. The name Doel could have been spelled this way in the marriage records only. Can't find other Doels on Horn Head or around Dunfanaghy. You may be right. Thanks.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Monday 21 June 10 10:58 BST (UK)
Have you got a copy of the marriage certificate between William Alcorn and Margaret Doel, it should tell you were she came from.  I don't have a computer so I use the local library, the machine were all down when I came in this morning so I went on the Micro fich they have a few irish records, so looked up my own family they had a look for Doel, if says to look under Doyle, looked under Doyle, Margaret Doel married William Alcorn 22.2.1864 No. M701625, Doel is listed in between Doyle and Dill on the records.  But they do not have the films here in the library.
Margaret Doel might have been English or Scottish.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Monday 21 June 10 12:13 BST (UK)
The LDS records do not state the names of her parents. It is possible that Margaret was English. Perhaps there were families of British soldiers and other British officials in Dunfanaghy at the time. The other theory is that the name was derived from Dowall, or Doyle. Thanks for your thoughts.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Tuesday 22 June 10 10:44 BST (UK)
I have come across van der doel, Dutch name might have stayed in Ireland after the Battle of the Boyne.
Have you tried going through www.google.com when the box comes up type in the name Doel, or Doel of ireland or england, seems a lot of Doel are looking for relatives.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Tuesday 22 June 10 13:30 BST (UK)
Well, that's a new twist. I have googled "Doel". Supposedly the name originated in Doel, Belguim, and it came to England via weavers from that town. It is found all over the world now.

I am still leaning to it being a derivitive of Dowall or Doyle. Listen to my father-in-law in a 1979 home interview I have on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCLvQRjdBm8
He pronouces the name "da-wil ". I'll check out the other info. Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: rathmore on Friday 25 June 10 11:01 BST (UK)
It great that you have John Alcorn on you tube, you need someone with a good irish accent to tell you what he is saying, sounds like Dowler to me, I am Irish but lived in England most of my life, I often don't understand irish people are saying.
Have you thought about getting in touch with the Television Channels, I am sure they would help you. I am more then sure people would like to see the clip of John taking about his family and then on the Fair Head ship, Belfast, great piece of history.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Friday 25 June 10 14:54 BST (UK)
Thanks for your kind words. The John Alcorn in the "Fairhead" video is actually a son of John senior from Horn Head.

I have since found  that there were 2 or 3 Margaret Doels on the U.S. census, and their place of birth was Ireland. There are Doels in Dublin.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: KDoel on Thursday 08 July 10 04:53 BST (UK)
To those curious about where the last name Doel came from...

http://www.4crests.com/doel-coat-of-arms.html

I dont know if this site is credible, but says Doel originated with the Normans that invaded England in 1066. Im not sure if the Dutch have any connection with the Normans (plead ignorance here), but if they do then maybe it would explain how Doel is present in dutch society.

P.S. I was told by a dutch person that Doel means goal and/or goaltender in dutch. I dont really remember if he meant one or the other or both, which it very well could be been both since language is funny like that.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 08 July 10 08:45 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat but that idea was mentioned in this thread a while back-
I have come across van der doel, Dutch name might have stayed in Ireland after the Battle of the Boyne.
Have you tried going through www.google.com when the box comes up type in the name Doel, or Doel of ireland or england, seems a lot of Doel are looking for relatives.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Thursday 08 July 10 09:16 BST (UK)
I am concluding that the name was transient in Dunfanaghy in the 1840's. So far I haven't found the name elsewhere in this area. Interestingly, there were records of Doels in the U.S. A. who were born in Ireland.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: tunity on Friday 09 July 10 23:41 BST (UK)
What a wonderful video to treasure, thanks for sharing it.
Is it likely your father-in-law had a sister Catherine Alcorn, married Dennis Durning from Horn Head.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Saturday 10 July 10 00:13 BST (UK)
Indeed he did. I have met her. We knew her as "Aunt Babs". I understand that Denis Durning was a cousin of Charles Durning, the well known Hollywood actor.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: tunity on Saturday 10 July 10 01:05 BST (UK)
Great news! Dennis was an uncle to Charles Durning the actor. I have a letter written by Dennis in 1963, if you'd like to read it, send me your email address please.

Children I have for Denis and Catherine:

Timothy
Kathleen
Joseph
Charles
Thomas
Margaret
Anne
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Saturday 10 July 10 09:27 BST (UK)
Yes, you're right. Dennis was an uncle to Charles Durning. I will send you my E mail address under separate cover. 
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Thursday 21 October 10 13:56 BST (UK)
To Derrylass
re your previous post re William Alcorn and Margaret Doyle, and birth of their son Thomas.

I have since learned that our William Alcorn and Margaret Doel Alcorn (Horn Head - married 1846),  had a large family, and one of their sons was named Thomas. There may be some substance to your suggestion. Thanks.

(Of course it appears that every Alcorn family had a William and a Thomas).
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: MrManJezza on Tuesday 28 December 10 20:13 GMT (UK)
To AlKar in particular

This is my first post as I have just started to become interested in the history of the Alcorn Family of Horn Head Co Donegal.  William Alcorn and Margaret Doel are my Great-great-grandparents.  Some oral history that we recorded (a few years ago) had her name as 'Duall' but I do not want to start a new thread about this and am happy to go with Doel or Doyle or Dowell.  I hope that the information that follows is not old news to this thread and I must stress that what follows is oral history that I picked up which I have not been able to substantiate with any records.

The information I have (and it may well be apocryphal) is that William Alcorn was the only son of a family of 10.  It appears  that he had two older sisters Johanna and Frances and seven younger sisters whose names are not known.

The second part of the story is that William was ostracised from his family for marrying Margaret.  Once again I stress that this is apocryphal.  The story is that  Margaret was "the tidewatcher's daughter" or "the tidekeeper's daughter". The tidekeeper was employed by the landlord on that part of Horn Head (Stewart I believe) to look out for flotsam that would wash up on the beach to which he was entitled as the landlord.  This deprived the tenants of the land of an extra  source of income and/or goods, therefore the "tidekeeper" or "tidewatcher" was an unpopular figure in the neighbourhood.

The story goes that when William and Margaret married they left the family home at Lower Claggan and moved to upper Claggan, to what would appear to be the land occupied by William Alcorn at the time of the 1857 Griffith's Valuation.  This land is still owned by my branch of the Alcorn Family (Margaret, the widow of my uncle George who passed away last year).

The above information was mainly sourced from some oral history I picked up in about 1979 when I visited Horn Head and spoke with Andy "Rooney" Alcorn who would have been a nephew of your wife's father John as was my father William "Gusty" Alcorn.

Thanks for the work you have done so far on this AlKar and others. Getting a wedding date for William and Margaret is a big step forward for me. Also, I particularly enjoyed the YouTube Video of Great-uncle John of whom I have heard so much.  As I stated at the beginning of this I have just started to become interested in the Alcorn family history again and would be happy to share any information I have picked up with anyone else reading these posts.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Wednesday 29 December 10 13:59 GMT (UK)
Delighted to hear from you! I will forward my E mail address to you, and we can then correspond further, and exchange information. Thank you RootsChat. AlKar 
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 29 December 10 14:34 GMT (UK)
New members usually need 2/3 posts to use PM (personal message) system
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Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Wednesday 29 December 10 15:03 GMT (UK)
MrManJezza,
Please E mail me at (*), and I will then E mail you further family information.
AlKar

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Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

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Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: MrManJezza on Sunday 02 January 11 07:26 GMT (UK)
Dear AlKar

Very good to hear from you and thank you for being so prompt. 

I am keen to get in touch with you but I do not appear to have the credentials to send a personal message as I am a new user of RootsChat.  I don't want to get you or myself in trouble so I will try to contact you via  YouTube.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Thursday 06 January 11 00:38 GMT (UK)
It would appear that Mr. Doel was brought to Horn Head to be the "Tide Watcher" for the landlord. This may explain why the name was not native to Horn Head or Dunfanaghy. I hope everyone found this story as interesting as I have. Thanks to all.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: genid on Friday 02 March 12 19:35 GMT (UK)
William Alcorn 1811-June 1889 married Margaret DOYLE 1821- April 1891 in St. John's C of I, Ballymore on 22 Feb 1846.
His father Gustavious Alcorn ( many in the area named this after the King of Sweden) her father William Doyle ( farmer on M/C).
Holy Trinity C of I in Dunfanaghy records their burials so probably buried in the Dunfanaghy graveyard - there is no gravestone.
I have 5 children born to them - with Augustus born 1848 died April 1921 married Isabella Stewart on 22 Feb 1877 in Holy Trinity,  Dunfanaghy.
I would be interested in the story of the 10 siblings of William - I know he has a sister Joanna who married Henry Connolly of the coastguard.
If you can contact me direct, I have oodles of info.
Regards
David Beck
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Friday 02 March 12 20:20 GMT (UK)
I've sent you my address under separate cover. Look forward to adding any new information.
Title: Re: Doel - Alcorn 1846 marriage
Post by: AlKar on Thursday 08 March 12 16:19 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the information! William Alcorn, Horn Head, was born in 1811. His wife Margaret Doel was born in 1821. William's father was Gustavus (Gustavious) Alcorn, and Margaret's father was William Doel. If Gustavus was 30 years of age (more or less) when William was born, Gustavus would have been born around 1781. This takes us back one more generation.