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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: tycho on Tuesday 08 June 10 22:47 BST (UK)

Title: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: tycho on Tuesday 08 June 10 22:47 BST (UK)
I would like to find out more about Edward Leonard Jay of 15 Waverley Road, Liverpool 17 who díed in 1940 in the presence of his wife Marie at the age of 71. He was a retired master tailor and is probably the Edward L. Jay who appears in the 1938 Kelly's trade directory as having a business at 72 Seel Street. I would especially like to know Marie's maiden name, if they had children and her death details. Or anything.
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 08 June 10 22:58 BST (UK)
Hi

I notice that Edward L JAY was still in the phone book in 1956, address 15 Waverley Rd, Lark Lane, Liverpool 17.  Not bad for a chap who died in 1940! (Or was this a son?).
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 09 June 10 01:17 BST (UK)
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I would especially like to know Marie's maiden name, if they had children and her death details. Or anything.


Was Edward born in England as there is no birth or marriage recorded on freebmd and no listing on the 1911 census

There is no Marie/Maria Jay death in Lancs from 1940 onwards
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: garstonite on Wednesday 09 June 10 08:48 BST (UK)
nothing on lan-opc for either Edward or Marie.....by the way...Waverely rd 2 miles from me....allan
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: tycho on Wednesday 09 June 10 17:13 BST (UK)
Thank you each for your interest. AVM228, I guess his wife or another relative carried on living at Waverley Road without bothering to change the entry in the phone book, but it seems there is no death certificate for a Marie Jay.

My interest in Edward Leonard Jay is that he may (or may not) be my grandfather. My grandfather was born in Insterburg, East Prussia in 1871 as Edward Leopold (not Leonard) Jay, came to England as a tailor but was interned as an enemy alien for WW1. After that the trail goes cold and its just possible that he amended Leopold (too German?) to Leonard and re-married, settling and working in Liverpool.
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 09 June 10 19:13 BST (UK)
There is no English marriage for him prior to or after 1918

If he was possibly your grandfather - doesn't your mother/fathers birth cert show both parents names
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 09 June 10 19:20 BST (UK)
Can you tell us a bit more about Edward (obviously not mentioning anyone still living)?

 - when did he first arrive in England?
 - was his surname always JAY? (Doesn't sound very Prussian!)
 - presumably you know of at least one child of his if you are/may be a descendant?
 - if he was married before internment, who to (and when?) Might Marie be a nickname/new name for that wife, or have you evidence of his first wife's death?
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: tycho on Thursday 10 June 10 19:00 BST (UK)
Originally all I was told was that his name was Edward Leopold Johnson Jay and that he had been interned in WW1 and then separated from my grandmother Eliza. Later I found my father's birth certificate (London, 1907) but curiously the surname given was Johnson (no Jay). Through the Red Cross in Geneva I found where he had been interned (under the name Edward Leopold Jay) and that he had been born in Insterburg, East Prussia in 1871. Then in the 1911 census I found him (as Edward Leopold Jay) and Eliza and my father (their son aged 7) living in Newport where he was a master tailor.
But he and Eliza separated shortly after WW1 and I am wondering what happened to him. Of course, he could have gone say to the US or to Germany, or he may have lived in England. The 1940 death of an Edward Leonard Jay, a retired master tailor is intriguing but I would like to prove that it was him. He may have had another family with Marie Jay, I suppose.
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 10 June 10 19:26 BST (UK)
Quote
in the 1911 census I found him (as Edward Leopold Jay) and Eliza and my father (their son aged 7) living in Newport where he was a master tailor.

I can't see any 1911 entry that is specifically Edward Leopold Jay - is it spelt correctly?

What is his birthyear and birthplace shown on the entry

How many years do they say they have been married as there is no obvious marriage

Was Eliza'a maiden name Johnson?
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 10 June 10 19:32 BST (UK)
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in the 1911 census I found him (as Edward Leopold Jay) and Eliza and my father (their son aged 7) living in Newport where he was a master tailor.

I can't see any 1911 entry that is specifically Edward Leopold Jay - is it spelt correctly?

What is his birthyear and birthplace shown on the entry

How many years do they say they have been married as there is no obvious marriage

Was Eliza'a maiden name Johnson?

1911 free index shows a 26yr old Eliza Jay in Newport, Monmouthshire.
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 10 June 10 19:52 BST (UK)
And the Edward Leopold referred to above is only shown as Leopold
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: tycho on Sunday 13 June 10 12:39 BST (UK)
The 1911 census entry I could only find by looking up Eliza Jay (Monmouthshire). The entry seems to be in Leopold's handwriting and is signed by him. The name given is Leopold Jay (no Edward, no Johnson), the same as appears in the Red Cross internment records. The 1911 census gives his birth as Germany, and he is 37 (which would mean he was born about 1874), and the marriage is 5 years old.. The Red Cross data gives his birth as Insterburg, East Prussia 1871. On my father's birth certificate he is simply named Leopold Johnson (no Jay!) so it's all rather mysterious. Given that the three documentary records call him Leopold, the chances of him being Edward Leonard Jay who died in Liverpool 1940 I guess are slim. But an unsent postcard of about 1914 addressed to him in the interment camp is addressed E L Jay, so the Edward is quite possible. Hope this makes sense. My main concern is to see what happened to him after his separation from Eliza after the war.
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 13 June 10 17:19 BST (UK)
Quote
Was Eliza'a maiden name Johnson?


What was Eliza's maiden name on your fathers birth cert
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: tycho on Monday 14 June 10 17:22 BST (UK)
No,she was Eliza Fairclough and she went on to have two more children by a Parker Dunscombe in 1925/6. In family lore Johnson was the name of the family doctor who delivered my father but in reality this was the surnname Leopold gave on my father's 1907 birth certificate - "Leopold Johnson". Johnson may have been a version of his German name, posssibly. I have plenty of data on the Dunscombes.
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: avm228 on Monday 14 June 10 18:44 BST (UK)
Presumably you have not found a marriage for Leopold and Eliza - is that right? Was she the Eliza Fairclough who had married Charles Henry Bridgens or Frank Ridge in Ecclesall Bierlow RD, Dec qtr 1902?
Title: Re: Edward & Marie Jay
Post by: tycho on Monday 14 June 10 22:01 BST (UK)
I don't think she was married to them! Though who knows? It's the right location. But she was with Leopold by 1906 and according to family lore had spent time abroad with him (as tailors) in Germany before returning to London by 1907, when my father was born.