RootsChat.Com

Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: david64 on Thursday 03 June 10 14:49 BST (UK)

Title: Ab/p-less Patronymics
Post by: david64 on Thursday 03 June 10 14:49 BST (UK)

I am doing some research in the parish of Llansilin on the Shropshire/Denbighshire border. I have noticed that a number of the families living there in the mid-1700s are using their father's forename as their surname. For example there is a Lewis Llewellyn and his children are called John Lewis, Anne Lewis etc.

I am looking into a Rice/Rees Edwards. His age at death gives him a birth of cira 1754 and in the parish there is a baptism for a Rees, son of Edward Rees on the 29th of March 1754. The township that Edward Rees is listed as living at is the same as the one Rees Edwards can be found living at in 1788. The name Rees is also uncommon in the area, with the next Rees baptised in the parish coming in 1798.

I am just wondering how common it was for people to take their father's forename as a surname, when their father had apparently dropped the ap/ab in there name. And also, how likely do people think that this 1754 baptism is the right one? As Rees Edwards died in 1839, I have no idea where he was born.

Title: Re: Ab/p-less Patronymics
Post by: Morganllan on Thursday 03 June 10 15:01 BST (UK)

I have seen this in my OH's ancestry. It was common for children to take their father's first name as a surname, and the ap/ab was not necessarily used, and in fact died out over time.

http://www.welshleigh.org/genealogy/welshnames.html

Title: Re: Ab/p-less Patronymics
Post by: david64 on Thursday 03 June 10 15:11 BST (UK)

Thanks for the link. That is the best overview I have seen on patronymics.

Title: Re: Ab/p-less Patronymics
Post by: Jeuel on Monday 16 August 10 00:01 BST (UK)

An observation I've found from tracing my husband's Welsh family is that in earlier censuses and parish records surnames are recorded as Evan, Jenkin, William and in later ones as Evans, Jenkins and Williams.

Title: Re: Ab/p-less Patronymics
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 16 August 10 00:16 BST (UK)

Previous link which maybe of interest.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,67385.0.html


Have those that were mentioned, by jeuel. Also Morgan/Morgans also David/Davies..proven as same family..or name interchangable throu census.

Cas

Title: Re: Ab/p-less Patronymics
Post by: Taffy Lee on Monday 16 August 10 12:34 BST (UK)

In my experience, this is very common.

It was most likely done to conform to the English way of naming.

Eventually, one generation would stick with the 'surname' for all future generations.

Some of them kept a hint of the former Ap or Ab; e.g. Probert, Pugh, Price, Bowen etc.

Lee