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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Galway => Topic started by: Lisa in California on Tuesday 01 June 10 20:23 BST (UK)
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This is a continuation of a thread that was started four years ago regarding the Wakefields from Aughrim.
I am interested in finding out about Jane Wakefield and her parents. Jane was born on 25-Dec-1822 in Ireland in either Tuam or Aughrim.
Original thread, started by someone else:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,156176.0.html
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got you
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In reply to Michael's question from a previous thread...Michael, I found a copy of Wakefield Memorial...compiled by Homer Wakefield, M.D., 1897. Paraphrasing from the book:
Edward Wakefield was the son of David Wakefield. Edward was born on the Wakefield family estate, which was on the road between Aughrim and Ballinasloe. Edward was a shoemaker. He lived in Ballinasloe until 1839. The paragraph describes a bit about his later life. Edward, according to the book, had a sister named Sarah.
Jane Wakefield is mentioned. Some of the details provided in the book (about my ancestors) are a bit incorrect. (Example: The book states she married John Owens; she actually married John Ovens.)
Aughrim was never mentioned by my relatives, only Tuam. ???
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In answer to your previous question, I do live in California, but I am Canadian. If you would like any assistance with any American research, be sure to pop over to the United States board and we can help you there. ;D I would be happy to help with American or Canadian lookups.
I have a meeting I have to go to, but will check back here later. Thank you again, Michael, for your interest.
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it's easy to get things mixed up, my father in law died about 15 years ago,a work collague of his read a speech at the grave side saying of his home county of cavan, but in fact he was born in Dublin and only moved to cavan when he was in his teens, meet his wife in cavan married there, move to his uncle and aunts factory in ballinasloe for work and everyone called them his parents,it happens, she maybe from tuam or had relatives from tuam, good luck in the meeting and speak again
regards
Michael
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Hi Michael:
Good point about the confusion of places of birth. Perhaps Jane's mum was born in Tuam.
While searching around for more (internet) information about the Wakefield/Ovens family, I found this article this morning (regarding my Jane Wakefield Ovens):
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08t5/
It has nothing to do with my search for her birthplace, but it was interesting to find an article mentioning her name. ;)
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hi lisa
intersting story, looks like the old bounced chq has been around a while,spoke with one of the wakefields yesterday and she was very interested to hear more,said some people had called a few years back about the tree, so she might be able to help,wont be meeting her until about the 15 of this month
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Hi Michael:
I apologize for not answering before now; we have been busy.
I have a (poor quality) photocopy of Jane Wakefield Ovens' obituary from 1927. It includes a photo of her; she was in her 106th year when she passed away. I will try to include it on this thread "tomorrow morning". (We are about 8 hours behind UK time.)
Thank you for your help with this. It would be exciting to see if there is any connection between my Wakefields and those of Aughrim/Ballinasloe.
Edited to read 106th year, not 105th year.
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1927 Obituary
The obituary states that Mrs. Jane Wakefield Ovens died in Toronto (Canada) at the age of 105 years. She had almost perfect health until two weeks before her death. She and her husband John Ovens "founded the John Ovens fancy goods establishment" nearly 75 years ago. The business is still controlled by her daughter...
..."Mrs. Ovens spent her childhood in Tuam, in the south of Ireland, where was was born." She came to the United States with her parents and settled in Jersey City. When she wasn't quite 20 years old she married John Ovens. Shortly afterwards they moved to Toronto...
...She was a great reader and she loved to sew. She received a prize several years ago for embroidery at the C.N.E. "She took a keen interest in current affairs and never worried, and to this her relatives attribute her great age"....
(Edited obituary to remove non-pertinent facts.)
Hopefully, my son can post her photo later (I don't remember how to post it.)
According to my mum, "Jane sometimes was in the shop even when she was in her 100s, apparently." :o :)
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Lisa,
I reread the threads again for the Wakefields. And I went back into the Wakefield Memorial page 250 and looked at that information again concerning Edward Wakefield, a shoemaker-and yes I have some Wakefield ancestors that were shoemakers! The memorial says Edward, the father of Jane resided in Ballinasloe until he immigrated to America in 1839. Edwards father is supposingly David Wakefield-a different generation than my David Wakefield. I do not know if you have contacted Mayflower1951-she has a thread Wakefields-that concerns Edwards sister Sarah. And we ran across each other because the information for Edwards father David Wakefield "born on the family estate, on the road between Aughrim and Ballinasloe, Galway county, Connaught, Ireland" matches up with my David Wakefield without the dates! And there is a Wakefield Village. You should contact her about your connection. From the reserch I have done-and I have found very little in records-but the that family site I referred you to had pictures of the area and references to a Wakefield Village-where my Wakefields seem to be from. I do not know how to go about checking the records for David Wakefield's brothers or his uncles listed in the Wakefield Memorial but I believe it is possible for a book written in 1898 not to have all the children correct. The records just do not seem to be there for the 1750's-18030's. I would think yours would be easier. If this family would be of Scandinavian roots I would say that all the Wakefields just took the Village name as their surname. But I assume in Ireland they really had surnames in 1600 & 1700's?Good luck-fruitytooty
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Hi fruitytooty:
Thank you for trying to help with my Wakefields. After reading your Wakefield thread, I talked to my mum. She remembers looking through the Ovens family bible when she was young. She remembers seeing Tuam in the bible (she apparently asked family members about the town), which is strange, because the Ovens were not from Galway and I believe John Ovens met Jane Wakefield in New Jersey. Either Tuam was referenced after Jane Wakefield Ovens' death, or perhaps it was written down after she married John Ovens.
I started researching when I was in college (and stopped and started many times throughout the decades). I was interested in finding out about my surname, and I wanted to learn more about John Ovens. It would be wonderful if someday I could learn more about Jane Wakefield's family.
Regarding your Wakefield ancestors who were shoemakers...one of my Sullivan ancestors was a shoemaker, so it could have been a somewhat common occupation at that time? Do you know when your Wakefields were shoemakers?
I have not been in contact with Mayflower1951 and will contact her when I return home after an errand. Thank you for mentioning her.
I looked through one of the sites you referenced on your thread - it was very fascinating! As I mentioned in your thread, I look forward to reading more about your Wakefields and will try to help with your thread. Thank you for your help, fruitytooty.
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I have did a couple more replies on my post on the Wakefields in the Galway forum-I do not know if you are notified when replies are for that site. the 2nd post today includes information from the Wakefield Memorial and info from books concerning the early Wakefields-emigrant and military chieftian John Wakefield and his son Dr. Albert Wakefield. I am pretty sure these are your relatives. In the 2nd post you will see a reference to David B. Pilch from the Wakefield Memorial page 214. You should know that he is the son of Edward Wakefield's sister Sarah, both children of David Wakefield. Sarah Wakefield married David Pilch and they had a son David B. Pilch. He is listed as an ancestor of Dr. Albert Wakefield. I believe there is a link missing between Albert and Robert's children. Or the son of Robert who stayed in Ireland-one of his children had a son named David and this is your DAvid. I quote directly from the Wakefield Memorial. fruitytooty
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Hi fruitytooty:
Thank you for continuing the Wakefield search and for notifying me. I believe due to problems on my end (I always seem to have computer problems), I do not receive every notification of replies. I did (just) read the latest entries on your post and it is quite interesting! Thank you for letting me know about the recent postings.
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Whether of not these records relate to your Wakefield branch, or Mayflower1951 and her Sarah Wakefield sister of Edward Wakefield both children of David Wakefield- I do not know. A reply concerning familysearch made me remember these records but I found them on a different site. Your David Wakefield was born probably around 1780? And he did not emigrate to America. Available at familysearch Ireland Tithe Appt Books-1824-David Wakefield, Townland Curragh and Barnacragh Parish Kilcloony County Galway. Also there is a Probate record for a David Wakefield-1862-Volume Date Jul-Dec 1862 County Galway.
I am interested in the records for Townland Urraghy (recent visit to Ireland the current Wakefields live Urraghy and their is a church there that supposingly my Wakefield branch attended)Parish Clontuskert County Galway 1823. There are listed 4 Wakefields and I do not know why others come up with the same names differing places! And it depends on which one you look at but it is possible that this family is that of Andrew Wakefield, uncle to my David Wakefield. Andrew remained in Ireland on the family estate and he was married to Margaret Reddick. He had sons John and Daniel. Depending on which one you look at one of the records looks like John. Andrew may of have more children than what is in the Wakefield Memorial-info is from the American branches-none was rec'd from the Irish branches and as I have stated this may be where your David stems from-Andrew or one of his children.fruitytooty
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.wakefield/821/mb.ashx I forgot to include this in prior post. This thread concerns the family listings and Griffiths Valuation-a gentlemen looking for the Wakefields listed and explains why and his connection. He also states trying to fill in the gap from Dr. Albert Wakefield. I too am working with a few to solve this but not on rootschat.fruitytooty
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In reply to Michael's question from a previous thread...Michael, I found a copy of Wakefield Memorial...compiled by Homer Wakefield, M.D., 1897. Paraphrasing from the book:
Edward Wakefield was the son of David Wakefield. Edward was born on the Wakefield family estate, which was on the road between Aughrim and Ballinasloe. Edward was a shoemaker. He lived in Ballinasloe until 1839. The paragraph describes a bit about his later life. Edward, according to the book, had a sister named Sarah.
From the dates you list above and utilizing the info from Nebeker Family History and the location of the Wakefield Village-the description for the Wakefield Family Estate is the same as the description for my David Wakefield on page 217-and Urraghy is where the current owners of this estate list as the residence-pictures in the Nebeker Family History-from http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VX53-KL8 lists Tithe Appt Book record 1824 for a David Wakefield is it possible that this is the father of Edward and Sarah Wakefield-he did not emigrate to America so he must be in Ireland and the date may actually work for your David. There is also records for Lands of Urraghy, Parish Clontuskert, County Galway 1823 tithe Appt Record-do you think any of those listed are related to your David? I did go ahead and do a possible Irish Line Tree for Charles Wakefield b 1781 Urraghry, Clontuskert parish, near Aughrim, County Galway, Ireland. William Wakefield b 1791 d 1 Mar 1867. I will not list all the family I have listed for them but they are on the Griffiths Valuation 1855 Urraghry and I feel they may have ancestors that are possible children stemming from John Wakefield, Robert Wakefield, or even Albert Wakefield-my branch where your branch may not be listed. Let me know what you think about the Tithe appt record. fruitytooty
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To Lisa in California,
My name is Kyle S. Ovens, I am an armature genealogist who has been researching the Ovens surname for many years now. I have traced my particular branch of the family from the USA to Ireland where they began to appear sometime between 1670 and 1695. Prior to being in Ireland the family had a presence in both Lowland Scotland (mostly Midlothian) as well as parts of South western & central England.
In one of your posts you mentioned "I talked to my mum, She remembers looking through the Ovens family bible when she was young." I would be extremely interested in any information you could share about your particular branch of the Ovens family and especially any info you might have on the whereabouts of the family Bible you mentioned.
My goal is to collect as much information about the Ovens surname as is possible in one place; www.ovensfamily.net I also have both a Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/557422481015699/) and page for the Ovens surname as well as 2 Ovens trees on Ancestry.com.
In addition to this I have access to multiple Ovens DNA results and have had the Big Y test conducted on myself to trace the origins of the male line back as far as possible. When funds permit I plan to subsidize the testing of Ovens from other branches of the family. I would be happy to share any information you might be interested in. As you can see I am more then a little interested in researching Ovens and linked surnames.
I look forward to your reply,
Kyle S. Ovens
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Hi Kyle:
Thank you for notifying me. :) I believe we have communicated in the past; your name seems very familiar.
Unfortunately, it appears that the family bible is now lost. When my great-uncle passed away, one of his nieces took the bible. During the 1980's, I contacted her several times asking for information from the bible; each time she would reply that she would get back to me. While she was a very nice lady, she never got around to letting me know what was included in the bible.
A few years ago, I "found" her son - unfortunately, he does not know what happened to the bible. He seemed disappointed as I believe he also was researching our Ovens ancestors.
My mum was told by her family that our Ovens ancestors "originated" in Holland. Supposedly, they "came over" with William of Orange and their name at that time was Van Oyen. My research stops with "my" John Ovens, born c1809 c1811, (possibly Co. Fermanagh) Ireland, who was possibly the son of William Ovens and Elizabeth Stinson ("their" John Ovens was baptised in Corclune/Corcloon, Co. Fermanagh, Ireland in 1811).
Coincidentally, last night I started a thread on RootsChat about DNA testing, inquiring about the "best" test for my mum to have done. She would like to have the test done as soon as possible.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=752112.new#new
We believe there is a connection with our John Ovens and Major John Ovens and Captain John Ovens, but it has not yet been proven. My mum's great-aunt researched our Ovens and we don't believe she ever mentioned our Ovens ancestors/family living in Scotland nor England.
I will contact you later today (or before the end of the weekend). I welcome your feedback on DNA testing (link mentioned above). Thank you again for contacting me. Lisa :)
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Hi Lisa,
It is entirely possible that we have communicated in the past. I have been researching the Ovens surname for many years and sometimes loos track of contacts. I am very sorry to hear about the loss of the Bible, i would have been shaking with excitement if I were to ever get my hands/ eyes on it.
From DNA research on the Ovens Y chromosome (male) we have found that the particular branch of the human Y chromosome tree that we belong to did originate someplace in the area of the Netherlands / Southern Denmark / North-Western Germany.
It is possible that your particular branch of the Ovens family did remain in the Holland area and did not come over until the time period of the "glorious revolution" as part of William of Orange's forces. That being said, I have found records of the Ovens surname in England and Scotland as early as the 1550s.
I do agree that it appears that the events of the "glorious revolution" do appear to be the driving force behind the arrival of the Ovens family in Ireland. I have not found any record of the family in Ireland until after 1689. The earliest record in Ireland that I have found is a burial in 1695. They are very heavily concentrated in the Fermanagh area along the western shores of lower Lough Erne.
I haven't yet been able to establish a direct paper trail between my branch and the branches in Scotland/ England other then some circumstantial ties between the Ovens family and some of the Landed families in Ireland who were came over from Scotland as part of the plantation. These same Scottish landed families come from the same areas of Scotland where I find the heaviest concentrations of Ovens. It is also documented that historically speaking a large amount of the non native Irish found in Fermanagh Ireland did immigrate from Scotland. I am pretty confident that they did come over from either England or Scotland either as part of William of Orange's forces or shortly after the war ended as part of a re-population effort.
I hope this makes sense and that I haven't bored you to tears with all of this. I look forward to hearing back from you. have a great day and happy hunting, Kyle S. Ovens
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Hi Kyle:
I think most of us bump into people with whom we've talked previously; I know I've done it several times. ;D
When my mum visited her uncle, (on occasion) she would sit and scrutinize the "family tree" that was written in the family bible. I just spoke to her, to make sure I had the correct facts and she said one of her Ovens aunt's either married a missionary, or he became one after their marriage. My mum said that when they travelled, she was able to obtain facts about the Ovens. I don't see how she could have determined that they were for "our" Ovens, but some of the things that my mum remembers reading have turned out to be true. For someone to have known the facts before the internet was available, to me, means that she truly had done some research.
Also, for a young person to sit and read names, dates and places, there must have been quite a bit of information written down. My mum said that no one else in the family was interested in the information. :'(
Your research is not at all boring; I find that as I learn more about my ancestors I also gain knowledge of world events, which most of the time is fascinating to me. :)