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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: triathlon on Sunday 30 May 10 22:58 BST (UK)
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Can you help please with my family research.
I am trying to trace the death of Thomas Loveday born 1867 who married Elizabeth Davies in 1890 in Cardiff. They had 5 children shown on 1901 census.
I am trying to trace the whereabouts of the offspring of their 5 children.
Thomas Francis Loveday 1892 - 1960 - 2 children XXX
Elizabeth loveday born 1894
Eliza J Loveday b. 1896
Rose Loveday 1898
Bertha Loveday 1900-1985 who married Henry Blackburn.
Thank you for any help.
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Thomas Loveday age 49 in 1912 at Neath Glamorgan
Neath volume 11a page 901
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There is a death ref for
Elizabeth Loveday March 1907 age 36
Cardiff 11a 266
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Many thanks for Info. Are you allowed to tell who who was the informant on Thomas and Elizabeth Loveday deaths and where they died . I am a newbie and have just started using this forum.
Thank you very much.
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You would need to buy the death certificate to find out that information.
Elizabeth Loveday died in the registration district of Cardiff.
Thomas Loveday died in the registration district of Neath.
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Have you found the family on the 1911 census? If they have moved, it may help you find a death reg for Thomas. I think Rose and Thomas F may be in the Merthyr Tydfil registration district.
I don't think the death reg in Neath is him as there is another Thomas Loveday who married there in 1896.
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Thank you for your response so quickly. In 1911 the mother/husband Elizabeth had died. I have the 1911 census but no trace of Thomas Loveday who was born in Wiltshire. I have found Rose and Thomas F.
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I have purchased both 1912 and 13 death certs for Thomas Lovedays neither are correct. Really struggling now.
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was he marked as deceased when Bertha married? Was he a witness? Where & when did she marry?
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Bertha 24 May 1900 - 4 March 1985 married Henry Blackburn 1898. Cant find the marriage and info was from another site. Need to find marriage place before I can phone registar fro that Info. Bertha is verified by a current family member on another website but has not responed to my emails
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please link your threads together to prevent duplication of effort ;)
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Apologies,info coming in all the time and the story is very complicated. I have no idea how to link threads?
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,461521.msg3223964.html#msg3223964
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,461530.msg3222233.html#msg3222233
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Found the marriage details for Bertha Loveday.
She married Henry Blackburn b. 1898 on 6 June 1924 at St marys Wistaston.
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the spouse of Henry B is shown as Bertha Haynes on the GRO pages?
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sorry what is GRO pages?
This is info from another persons tree so I have not authenticated it however from this he has Berthas mother and father correct.
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G eneral R egister O ffice - the keeper of all BMD Indices.
This is the marriage detail from the Index.
Henry Blackburn married Bertha Haynes
in the Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec in 1924
in the Registration district of Nantwich, Cheshire
Volume Number 8a
Page Number 664
so unless your Bertha Loveday married a haynes previously, not sure how your contact knows it to be correct?
Added: altho looking back I see you show a June month ?
Wistaston was certainly in that Nantwich Registration District up to 1937.
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Thank you I'll have to check more.
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looking at that 'tree' for Bertha et al on Ancestry, it has NO sources quoted, and not even vital details for Henry B. :(
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You are absolutely right.
I have just this minute spoken to a living relative of Thomas loveday 1867, only taken me about a thousand hours to get this far but very exciting. I am hopeful that when I email him the family info he can clarify or contact other members of the family?
It is very interesting that he mentions that he thought his grandafather Thomas Francis Loveday 1892 - 1960 was a Barnardos boy.!!!!
i Know that his mother was dead in 1907 and that Thomas Francis was with her brother Francis J Davies on 1911 census . But where was the father - if he is not the 1912 or 13 Loveday death where is he??
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That's great news, Triathlon
It's great when you finally track down a rellie, isn't it? ;D
Good luck with the search :)
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For info - there are some Loveday Wiltshire MIs here:
http://www.wishful-thinking.org.uk/genuki/GLS/Painswick/MIs.html
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On one of your threads, you mentioned a birth reg with Martha as mother. Possible marriage for Martha
Martha Loveday dec qtr 1870 Highworth vol 5a pg 36 to either John Legg or John Smith
1871 Upper Stratton, Wilts RG10/1879 folio 33 pg 35
John Smith head mar 56 farm labourer
Martha wife 24
both born Stratton St Margaret
1881 Hag Lane, Swindon RG11/2020 folio 47 pg 17
William Holland head mar 25 general labourer b. Somerset, Crudwell (?)
Martha wife 30 tailoress b. Wiltshire, Stratton
Thomas Smith son 14 plough boy ag labourer b. Stratton
John Smith son 8 b. Stratton
Looks like Martha may have 'lost' a few years on meeting a younger man.
remarriage
Martha Smith dec qtr 1881 Highworth vol 5a pg 49 with William Holland on the same page
more than one possible death reg for John Smith in Highworth that would fit.
Haven't found Thomas in 1871 as yet.
:-\
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Thank you.
Sorry not quite sure how this ties in with the birth of Thomas Loveday in 1867?
I am still trying to find Thomas's parents but all I know from his marriage cery is that his father is named John ! and THomas is down as being born Stratton, Swindon.
Regarding Martha, one of the registars, I think in Swindon had a birth for a Thomas Loveday with only a mothers name on cert. given as Martha?
I'm just trying to check back on records now.
For info on the 1911 census Eliza Jane and Betha Loveday, children of Thomas and Elizabeth are'nt shown anywhere , could they also be Barnados ? I can find the other 3 in 1911.
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Regarding the authenticity of the marriage of Bertha Loveday 1900 - 1985.
All I have from an unchecked source ( emailed him but no response yet) on another site is that she married Henry Blackburn b. 1898 - married on 6th June 1924 at St marys Wistaston. This information seems too specific to be incorrect but I cant find the marriage registered as yet?
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my thought was that Martha Loveday, mother of Thomas, married before the following census which is why they couldn't be found in 1871. I found a marriage for Martha, who like Thomas, was from Stratton to John Smith with whom she had a son, also John. Her husband died and she moved in with William Holland and in 1881 both her sons are with her, although Thomas is enumerated as Smith. Perhaps Martha didn't tell her new man that the boys had different fathers? Perhaps they didn't?
As Martha wasn't married at the time of Thomas' birth, the only way that the father's name could be on the cert was if he registered the birth. Perhaps John Smith was his father or Thomas thought he was, or he used his first name to fill the embarrassing blank space on the marriage cert.
Stratton bmds were registered in Highworth until 1899 when the registration district became Swindon
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/highworth.html
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Triathlon,
Decided to try and track the Bertha Haynes that married Henry Blackburn - marriage registered DEC Qtr, 1924 Nantwich 8a 664.
Checked the 1911 Census for a Bertha Haynes in the Nantwich area and found one in Crewe born 1901 Cardiff.
I have checked FreeBMD for the period between 1895 and 1905 (lots of leeway!!) and couldn't find the birth of a Bertha Haynes registered Cardiff, or indeed Glamorgan, during that period.
Has your source established that Bertha "Haynes" b. Cardiff 1901 (1911 Census, Nantwich) and Bertha Loveday b. Cardiff 1900 (1901 Census, Cardiff) might be one and the same?
By 1911 the family appears broken up with Rose and Thomas Frances in Merthyr Tydfil with relatives and no trace Elizabeth and Bertha? Was Bertha adopted? Already been mention of Thomas and Dr Barnardos.
Possible red herring but food for thought
1911 Census ref = RG14PN21768 RG78PN1297 RD449 SD1 ED16 SN176
regards
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Thank you.
I think I am first going to have to contact Barnados as living family have mentioned that. Then try and trace using male line relatives LIVING on Davies side . Working on Tranters at the moment. I am a real novice at this and spent many hundreds of hours but trying to avoid adoptions, re-marriages etc. All I am really trying to find out is what happened to Thomas Loveday 1867, and is there a reason why his wife had another 5 children with a Lawrence galvin. Did he die leave or ???
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It could be that Bertha was adopted or fostered, but official records of adoption don't start until 1927. Perhaps getting the 1924 marriage certificate might help.
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Thank you. Just applied for info to Barnados. I'm trying to contact the informant of this Bertha Loveday marriage first to see where info has come from, otherwise I could be buying the wrong cert. I've got quite a few already. I'm also trying HARD to work through all the other male children to trace descendants.
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Thank you for this lead. I THINK I've cleared up ONE mystery !!
On the 1911 census Bertha HAYNES is shown aged 10 ( 1900/1901) born CARDIFF with parents ELIZA and Alfred who married in 1898.
There is no birth recorded for Bertha HAYNES !! However ELIZA haynes was born 1874, same as Eliza Davies, also both were born Bridgewater. Therefore I think Eliza Haynes is nee Davies and Elizabeth Lovedays Sister. Looks like she has adopted Bertha , Elizabeths child as BERTHA is not shown on 1901 census for the Haynes marriage, not is her birth recorded as Haynes anywhere else. This would make sense as the Davies family seem to be taking on the care of the Loveday children.
Triathlon,
Decided to try and track the Bertha Haynes that married Henry Blackburn - marriage registered DEC Qtr, 1924 Nantwich 8a 664.
Checked the 1911 Census for a Bertha Haynes in the Nantwich area and found one in Crewe born 1901 Cardiff.
I have checked FreeBMD for the period between 1895 and 1905 (lots of leeway!!) and couldn't find the birth of a Bertha Haynes registered Cardiff, or indeed Glamorgan, during that period.
Has your source established that Bertha "Haynes" b. Cardiff 1901 (1911 Census, Nantwich) and Bertha Loveday b. Cardiff 1900 (1901 Census, Cardiff) might be one and the same?
By 1911 the family appears broken up with Rose and Thomas Frances in Merthyr Tydfil with relatives and no trace Elizabeth and Bertha? Was Bertha adopted? Already been mention of Thomas and Dr Barnardos.
Possible red herring but food for thought
1911 Census ref = RG14PN21768 RG78PN1297 RD449 SD1 ED16 SN176
regards
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I see that the only recorded birth for a Thomas Loveday in 1867 is a Thomas Henry Loveday.
I contacted the registry office who stated that the only details on the birth cert were mother's - Martha. She had him in the workhouse !! Obviously I cannot be sure this is him as I have nothing to verify it and he has only used 1867 date of birth on 2 documents and Stratton as birthplace. I cannot see that he has ever used L as a middle name.
There are numerous Martha Lovedays ( born 40s -50 in Highworth that could be his mother and of course John his father could be anyone.
my thought was that Martha Loveday, mother of Thomas, married before the following census which is why they couldn't be found in 1871. I found a marriage for Martha, who like Thomas, was from Stratton to John Smith with whom she had a son, also John. Her husband died and she moved in with William Holland and in 1881 both her sons are with her, although Thomas is enumerated as Smith. Perhaps Martha didn't tell her new man that the boys had different fathers? Perhaps they didn't?
As Martha wasn't married at the time of Thomas' birth, the only way that the father's name could be on the cert was if he registered the birth. Perhaps John Smith was his father or Thomas thought he was, or he used his first name to fill the embarrassing blank space on the marriage cert.
Stratton bmds were registered in Highworth until 1899 when the registration district became Swindon
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/highworth.html
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I do hope this makes sense. In 1871 census I found a John Loveday b. 1845 married to a MARTHA b 1847. I have found a marriage for John Loveday b. 1845 married in 1869.
On the 1871 they have children shown on the census, but not Thomas 1867 ? He was obviously born 2 years before the marriage if I am correct!!
I might be adding 2+ 2 and getting 6 but dont know.
Very confusing and I am just a newbie! but getting older!!
my thought was that Martha Loveday, mother of Thomas, married before the following census which is why they couldn't be found in 1871. I found a marriage for Martha, who like Thomas, was from Stratton to John Smith with whom she had a son, also John. Her husband died and she moved in with William Holland and in 1881 both her sons are with her, although Thomas is enumerated as Smith. Perhaps Martha didn't tell her new man that the boys had different fathers? Perhaps they didn't?
As Martha wasn't married at the time of Thomas' birth, the only way that the father's name could be on the cert was if he registered the birth. Perhaps John Smith was his father or Thomas thought he was, or he used his first name to fill the embarrassing blank space on the marriage cert.
Stratton bmds were registered in Highworth until 1899 when the registration district became Swindon
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/highworth.html
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the only John Loveday & Martha marriage at that time is
John Loveday june qtr 1866 Highworth vol 5a pg 15 with Martha Titcombe on the same page
So they would have been married at the time of Thomas' birth and the birth cert you have has Thomas born to an unmarried Martha.
1871 census has Emma Titcomb, Martha's sister, visiting them. They also have a 4 year old son called Alfred, so not much time to allow for the birth of a Thomas anyway.
If Thomas had been born to this couple before their marriage, he should have been registered as Titcombe.
The 1869 marriage has no Martha with the same GRO ref, there's a Mary Harriet or a Jessie.
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Yes, I think that my thoughts are towards Martha the mother of Thomas being the Loveday, and not being married when he was born. Workhouse. I have nothing to evidence this accept the year of birth matches and the place. What I cant understand is that John LOveday is shown as father on the marriage cert. I cannot confirm that Martha is the mother of Thomas so really I seem not to be getting anywhere trying to trace his parents. Or am I missing something?
the only John Loveday & Martha marriage at that time is
John Loveday june qtr 1866 Highworth vol 5a pg 15 with Martha Titcombe on the same page
So they would have been married at the time of Thomas' birth and the birth cert you have has Thomas born to an unmarried Martha.
1871 census has Emma Titcomb, Martha's sister, visiting them. They also have a 4 year old son called Alfred, so not much time to allow for the birth of a Thomas anyway.
If Thomas had been born to this couple before their marriage, he should have been registered as Titcombe.
The 1869 marriage has no Martha with the same GRO ref, there's a Mary Harriet or a Jessie.
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there is a father called John on the marriage certificate rather that there being a blank space for father's name. It was quite common for people to invent a name, use a grandfather's name, use a stepfather's name, rather than admit their illegitimacy.
What workhouse records survive are at the Witlshire & Swindon Archives - they have births from 1866.
http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/leisureandculture/museumhistoryheritage.htm
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Yes, I think without any further leads I will have to assume that Martha Loveday was his mother and was not married at his birth that I will again have to now assume is Thomas H Loveday born 1867. JOhn could have come from anywhere as you say.
There still is no trace of any death of Thomas Loveday and that I am still trying to work on. The whole family was split up by 1911 , I just have no idea what happened to their father.
there is a father called John on the marriage certificate rather that there being a blank space for father's name. It was quite common for people to invent a name, use a grandfather's name, use a stepfather's name, rather than admit their illegitimacy.
What workhouse records survive are at the Witlshire & Swindon Archives - they have births from 1866.
http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/leisureandculture/museumhistoryheritage.htm
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Free BMD has the marriage of an Alfred Haynes Jun 1897 Abergavenny 11a 72. On the same page is an Eliza Davis (not Davies).
The 1901 Census has
Alfred Haynes, Head, Marr, b. 1876, Railway Engine Stoker, b. Kempsey
Eliza Haynes, Wife, Marr, b. 1875, b. Bridgwater
Eily Haynes, Dau, b. 1896, b. Abergavenny
William Bridge, Visitor, Marr, b. 1865, Solicitor's Clerk, b. Bristol
William Davies, Boarder, Single, b. 1881, Railway Engine Stoker, b. Abergavenny
Address 43 Station St, Monks Coppenhall, Cheshire
This is the Alfred and Eliza that Bertha "Haynes" is living with in 1911 (no sign of daughter Eily with the family in 1911).
The birth of Eily in Abergavenny links with the Abergavenny marriage of Alfred Haynes and Eliza Davis - but cannot find a birth on BMD for Eily in Abergavenny around that period.
The marriage year of 1897 accords with Alfred's declaration on the 1911 Census of having been "married 13 years".
regards
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Having checked with the registry offices and various offices, Bertha Haynes is one and the Same as Bertha Loveday. Eliza Davies (Davis) is Eliza, Elizabeth Lovedays sister and has therefore adopted Bertha. Backed up further by the 1911 census showing Bertha Born Cardiff as was Berths Loveday.
Looking at Eily on the 1901 census and there is no trace of her birth, I now wonder if she too is a LOveday and has been adopted i.e. she is Eliza Jane Loveday born 1895/1896. It just seems to fit in ??
Free BMD has the marriage of an Alfred Haynes Jun 1897 Abergavenny 11a 72. On the same page is an Eliza Davis (not Davies).
The 1901 Census has
Alfred Haynes, Head, Marr, b. 1876, Railway Engine Stoker, b. Kempsey
Eliza Haynes, Wife, Marr, b. 1875, b. Bridgwater
Eily Haynes, Dau, b. 1896, b. Abergavenny
William Bridge, Visitor, Marr, b. 1865, Solicitor's Clerk, b. Bristol
William Davies, Boarder, Single, b. 1881, Railway Engine Stoker, b. Abergavenny
Address 43 Station St, Monks Coppenhall, Cheshire
This is the Alfred and Eliza that Bertha "Haynes" is living with in 1911 (no sign of daughter Eily with the family in 1911).
The birth of Eily in Abergavenny links with the Abergavenny marriage of Alfred Haynes and Eliza Davis - but cannot find a birth on BMD for Eily in Abergavenny around that period.
The marriage year of 1897 accords with Alfred's declaration on the 1911 Census of having been "married 13 years".
regards
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Eliza and Alfred married in 1898 but Eily is shown as 5 on 1901 census, therefore born in 1896 before they were married ?? Again it seems that Eliy is Eliza Loveday. It appears that the Davies family are looking after all the Loveday children.
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Triathlon,
Sadly, doesn't fit.
Eliza J Loveday born Abergavenny is on the 1901 Census with Thomas/Elizabeth Loveday.
Eily Haynes born Abergavenny is on the 1901 Census with Alfred/Eliza Haynes.
regards
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Oh dear yes you are right.
I am trying to find marriages of Ellen 1868 and Annie Blanch Davies 1872 and really hope they have UNCOMMON names of partners!
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Have just received some information directly from relatives of Thomas Francis Loveday 1892 - 1960.
He and his wife Alice nee Poulson lived in Ambleside, Hengeod Rd, Penpedairheol, Hengoed. Glam until his death in 1960. He had a business in Pengram selling colliery safety footwear and school uniforms for Lewis Grammar School for Boys ( still there) . He was a country councillor.
Has anyone any ideas about old esbalished business etc in that area where I may be able to speak to someone who knew him? Maybe through this avenue I might be able to find out what happened to his father that caused him at the age of 19 to have to live with his mothers family and all the the rest of the children were split up.
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Just got another lead and some positive news from Barnados. Found Thomas Lovedays b. 1867- daughter Eliza Jane b. 1895. Thats the good news. The not so good news is that she was taken in by Barnados in 1908 following her mothers death in 1907. On 8th october 1908 she was sent to Quebec Canada on the SS Dominion and arrived Quebec 19th october 1908. She was sent to a holding unit at HAZELbray in Quebec. This has now closed and the records are back with Barnados in UK. Unfortunately as she may have married in canada , Barnados will ONLY release her records to a direct descendent.
HAS ANYONE ANY IDEA HOW BEST I MAY BE ABLE TO FIND HER IN CANADA assuming she may have married.
Barnados were quite helpful however and when I asked details of her father they said there were NO details of him or his death and the file simply siad "lost sight of ........" !! Maybe left home ???
This still doesnt help me with trying to find out what happened to her father but I am now going to get the death cert of Thomas H Loveday who died in Northampton 1950 to see if the informants on this give me any leads.
I cant find any other Lovedays that were born 1867 in Stratton that fit the bill.
Any further suggestions would be great. Thank you.
On one of your threads, you mentioned a birth reg with Martha as mother. Possible marriage for Martha
Martha Loveday dec qtr 1870 Highworth vol 5a pg 36 to either John Legg or John Smith
1871 Upper Stratton, Wilts RG10/1879 folio 33 pg 35
John Smith head mar 56 farm labourer
Martha wife 24
both born Stratton St Margaret
1881 Hag Lane, Swindon RG11/2020 folio 47 pg 17
William Holland head mar 25 general labourer b. Somerset, Crudwell (?)
Martha wife 30 tailoress b. Wiltshire, Stratton
Thomas Smith son 14 plough boy ag labourer b. Stratton
John Smith son 8 b. Stratton
Looks like Martha may have 'lost' a few years on meeting a younger man.
remarriage
Martha Smith dec qtr 1881 Highworth vol 5a pg 49 with William Holland on the same page
more than one possible death reg for John Smith in Highworth that would fit.
Haven't found Thomas in 1871 as yet.
:-\
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you could try posting on the Canada board with a link to this post to ask how to find her details
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,166.0.html
There's a poster called J.J. who takes a special interest in British Home Children.
;)
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Done it, may thnaks.
you could try posting on the Canada board with a link to this post to ask how to find her details
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,166.0.html
There's a poster called J.J. who takes a special interest in British Home Children.
;)
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Hi triathlon.
Thomas Herbert Loveday was buried at Kingsthorpe Cemetery
Northampton, 25 Nov 1950 aged 80.
He was noted as living at 4 Albert Street, and is buried in
Grave 18573.
Sandy
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Many many thanks for this info.
I checked with Northampton regisrtry office who tell me that the death is registered by his wife M E Loveday. I can find a marriage for Thomas Henry Loveday in 1907 ( the year his wife Elixabeth died) the problem is I cannot check the spouse name for this 1907 marriage. Nor can I find Thomas henry in the 1911 census, I have checked what I thought were the possible ones but the marriages are too long. They would only have been married 4 years/
Am I missing something ??
Hi triathlon.
Thomas Herbert Loveday was buried at Kingsthorpe Cemetery
Northampton, 25 Nov 1950 aged 80.
He was noted as living at 4 Albert Street, and is buried in
Grave 18573.
Sandy
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Hi again triathlon .
I think his wife would have been Elizabeth Stent at time of Marriage.
Sandy
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OKay on the freebmd Thomas's wife is Elizabeth Stent.
Burial at Kingsthorpe Cemetery.
Mary Elizabeth Loveday 25/04/1978 died at Renny Lodge Hospital, Newport Pagnell
(of 15 Evenley Road, Northampton) aged 91, grave no. 18573
Sandy
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Hi
Thanks again, you are obviously a lot better at this than me. Is the info below the 1907 marriage for Thomas Herbert Loveday ??
If is is I'll need to contact appropriate registrar to check if on his 1907 marriage cert he gives his place of birth as Stratton St Marg. Wilts and his father as John Loveday.
All Thomas's children from his first marriage to Elizabeth Davies following her death in 1907, were put into her families care or BARNADO, the Branados file states that Thomas was " lost sight of" , hence why I am trying to make sure I have the right one!
OKay on the freebmd possible marriage as Elizabeth, needs confirming.
Burial at Kingsthorpe Cemetery.
Mary Elizabeth Loveday 25/04/1978 died at Renny Lodge Hospital, Newport Pagnell
(of 15 Evenley Road, Northampton) aged 91, grave no. 18573
Sandy
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HI again.
I think after reading the post from the very start that the confussion is
Thomas HERBERT Loveday not Thomas HENRY.
On the 1901 Census Thomas Herbert is with his family being born in
the Thrapston reg district in 1870/71.
Rg13/1422/St Giles Northampton Pg 1 Folio 74 Sch 4 No 10 Purser Road.
Thomas is noted as 30.
Therefore if you are tracing the family in Wales I am not sure how it can be
this one.
Sandy
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Thank you again for your trouble with this.
I have been 6 months at it and struggling.
Regarding Thomas, the facts I do have is his marriage cert to Elizabeth, that show him born 1867 and place of birth and father. Confirmed on the 1901 Wales census.
You will see on the 1901 Wales census that Thomas ( no H middle name ever mentioned) and Elizabeth nee Davies have 5 children. There is also a lodger in the house, my great Grandfather Lawrence GALVIN. I do not know what happened in 1901 but Elizabeth went on to have 5 more children with Lawrence GALVIN ( all certificates obtained) in another address in Cardiff.
In 1907 Elizabeth died BUT was buried as a LOVEDAY ( Lawrence and her never married).
The 5 original Loveday children were "abandoned" or something by Thomas, they were looked after by Elizabeths family and one child went to Barnados and subsequently Canada - I have all details. 2 of these children later married in 1917 and 1918 and both put father DECEASED on their marriage certs. However there is NO DEATH recorded of a Thomas LOVEDAY between 1901 and 1918 ( I checked every UK record ) !! Barnados in 1908 have "father lost sight of on his daughters record.
Lots of people on the sight have tried to locate the birth cert for me and this is where the Thomas H comes from. But no death can be found and hence I looked at a second marriage of Thomas post his wifes death in 1907.
He could of emigrated post 1901 but I can not trace that.
Lawrence my great grandfather after Elizabeth died took THEIR 5 children back to Ireland and the rest i know. But what happened to THOMAS????? Hope this makes sense.
HI again.
I think after reading the post from the very start that the confussion is
Thomas HERBERT Loveday not Thomas HENRY.
On the 1901 Census Thomas Herbert is with his family being born in
the Thrapston reg district in 1870/71.
Rg13/1422/St Giles Northampton Pg 1 Folio 74 Sch 4 No 10 Purser Road.
Thomas is noted as 30.
Therefore if you are tracing the family in Wales I am not sure how it can be
this one.
Sandy
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Unbelievably I've just got some info from Barnados which links to this Martha, thank you.
Barnados have told me that A Mrs HOLLAND, the paternal grandmother of Eliza J Loveday looked after Eliza, following her mother Elizabeths death in 1907. Mrs Holland ( Martha Loveday) handed Eliza back to Lawrence Galvin within 12 months, Galvin then placed her in the care of Barnados !
Therefore I think that Thomas is Thomas H Loveday born 1867 (Jan -Mar) in the workhouse to Martha, father not shown on birth cert!
I'm not sure how I get martha's birth and parents
On one of your threads, you mentioned a birth reg with Martha as mother. Possible marriage for Martha
Martha Loveday dec qtr 1870 Highworth vol 5a pg 36 to either John Legg or John Smith
1871 Upper Stratton, Wilts RG10/1879 folio 33 pg 35
John Smith head mar 56 farm labourer
Martha wife 24
both born Stratton St Margaret
1881 Hag Lane, Swindon RG11/2020 folio 47 pg 17
William Holland head mar 25 general labourer b. Somerset, Crudwell (?)
Martha wife 30 tailoress b. Wiltshire, Stratton
Thomas Smith son 14 plough boy ag labourer b. Stratton
John Smith son 8 b. Stratton
Looks like Martha may have 'lost' a few years on meeting a younger man.
remarriage
Martha Smith dec qtr 1881 Highworth vol 5a pg 49 with William Holland on the same page
more than one possible death reg for John Smith in Highworth that would fit.
Haven't found Thomas in 1871 as yet.
:-\
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It appears that Thomas Smith aged 14, is actually Thomas Loveday born 1867, that would also fit in with Thomas's marriage where he shows his father as John. However Martha and John were not married at the time and he has been given her name LOVEDAY.
There is no death in the UK for Thomas and not anywhere on UK 1911 census.The only remaining one is emigration. I know he was here in 1901 but gone by 1907, is there anyway I can search migration records easily please.
Unbelievably I've just got some info from Barnados which links to this Martha, thank you.
Barnados have told me that A Mrs HOLLAND, the paternal grandmother of Eliza J Loveday looked after Eliza, following her mother Elizabeths death in 1907. Mrs Holland ( Martha Loveday) handed Eliza back to Lawrence Galvin within 12 months, Galvin then placed her in the care of Barnados !
Therefore I think that Thomas is Thomas H Loveday born 1867 (Jan -Mar) in the workhouse to Martha, father not shown on birth cert!
I'm not sure how I get martha's birth and parents
On one of your threads, you mentioned a birth reg with Martha as mother. Possible marriage for Martha
Martha Loveday dec qtr 1870 Highworth vol 5a pg 36 to either John Legg or John Smith
1871 Upper Stratton, Wilts RG10/1879 folio 33 pg 35
John Smith head mar 56 farm labourer
Martha wife 24
both born Stratton St Margaret
1881 Hag Lane, Swindon RG11/2020 folio 47 pg 17
William Holland head mar 25 general labourer b. Somerset, Crudwell (?)
Martha wife 30 tailoress b. Wiltshire, Stratton
Thomas Smith son 14 plough boy ag labourer b. Stratton
John Smith son 8 b. Stratton
Looks like Martha may have 'lost' a few years on meeting a younger man.
remarriage
Martha Smith dec qtr 1881 Highworth vol 5a pg 49 with William Holland on the same page
more than one possible death reg for John Smith in Highworth that would fit.
Haven't found Thomas in 1871 as yet.
:-\
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either of Martha's marriage certificates which give you her father's name & occupation. I'm think she lost a few years when she married William Holland. This could be her in 1851
Stratton St, Lower Stratton HO107/1833 folio 245 pg 13
Johnathan Loveday head mar 36 ag lab b. Wilts, Bishopston
Elizabeth wife 32 b. Stratton
John son 10 b. Stratton
Martha dau 8 b. Stratton
Susanah dau 5 b. Stratton
Martha Loveday march qtr 1843 Swindon vol 8 pg 342
parents' marriage
Jonathan Loveday june qtr 1841 Swindon vol 8 pg 535 with Elizabeth Joram on the same page
Unless she's the Martha registered march qtr 1849 Swindon vol 8 pg 373
haven't found her as yet in 1851.
Martha in 1891
7 Pys St, New Swindon RG12/1585 folio 61 pg 34
William Holland head mar 34 brickyard lab b. Som, Crudwell
Martha wife 39 b. Wilts, Stratton
Albert Edward son 6 b. Glam, Cardiff
William James son 1 b. Swindon
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Many thanks.
I've found a death for a Martha Holland aged 60 in 1909 (Jan - March), I know she was alive in 1907 as she had child Eliza but gave child back to Galvin in 1908 - ill?? Thomas is Thomas Henry LOVEDAY, I've odered his birth cert .
I cant find Thomas aged 3 anywhere. I think I'll have to go for the Holland marriage cert.
either of Martha's marriage certificates which give you her father's name & occupation. I'm think she lost a few years when she married William Holland. This could be her in 1851
Stratton St, Lower Stratton HO107/1833 folio 245 pg 13
Johnathan Loveday head mar 36 ag lab b. Wilts, Bishopston
Elizabeth wife 32 b. Stratton
John son 10 b. Stratton
Martha dau 8 b. Stratton
Susanah dau 5 b. Stratton
Martha Loveday march qtr 1843 Swindon vol 8 pg 342
parents' marriage
Jonathan Loveday june qtr 1841 Swindon vol 8 pg 535 with Elizabeth Joram on the same page
Unless she's the Martha registered march qtr 1849 Swindon vol 8 pg 373
haven't found her as yet in 1851.
Martha in 1891
7 Pys St, New Swindon RG12/1585 folio 61 pg 34
William Holland head mar 34 brickyard lab b. Som, Crudwell
Martha wife 39 b. Wilts, Stratton
Albert Edward son 6 b. Glam, Cardiff
William James son 1 b. Swindon
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Is there anyway I can copy off the info I am being given as its really difficult trying to look back at posts while trying to do searches. Thank you
either of Martha's marriage certificates which give you her father's name & occupation. I'm think she lost a few years when she married William Holland. This could be her in 1851
Stratton St, Lower Stratton HO107/1833 folio 245 pg 13
Johnathan Loveday head mar 36 ag lab b. Wilts, Bishopston
Elizabeth wife 32 b. Stratton
John son 10 b. Stratton
Martha dau 8 b. Stratton
Susanah dau 5 b. Stratton
Martha Loveday march qtr 1843 Swindon vol 8 pg 342
parents' marriage
Jonathan Loveday june qtr 1841 Swindon vol 8 pg 535 with Elizabeth Joram on the same page
Unless she's the Martha registered march qtr 1849 Swindon vol 8 pg 373
haven't found her as yet in 1851.
Martha in 1891
7 Pys St, New Swindon RG12/1585 folio 61 pg 34
William Holland head mar 34 brickyard lab b. Som, Crudwell
Martha wife 39 b. Wilts, Stratton
Albert Edward son 6 b. Glam, Cardiff
William James son 1 b. Swindon
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if you click on the Print button at the bottom, you will see the complete thread and can print it off or copy and paste it to another document. :)
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Martha's age from 1881 census onwards is a better match with the 1849 birth reg, but haven't found her as yet. One of her marriage certs looks to be the way to go, so let us know details from the Holland cert.
Passenger lists can be accessed on FindMyPast
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/home.jsp
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Thank you.
I have found Martha and William on the 1901 census but neither at 1911. Martha possibly died in 1910 but thought i might find william
Martha's age from 1881 census onwards is a better match with the 1849 birth reg, but haven't found her as yet. One of her marriage certs looks to be the way to go, so let us know details from the Holland cert.
Passenger lists can be accessed on FindMyPast
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/home.jsp
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William should be around on the 1911 - he didn't die until 1944, or at least there's a possible death reg for him then.
William Holland 89 march qtr 1944 Swindon vol 5a pg 10
& there's a possible remarriage in 1932
Albert Edward & William James Holland look to be in Merthyr Tydfil in 1911
Didn't you say Martha's death reg was march qtr 1909?
::)
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Gosh I'm getting really muddled now. I'm using Ancestry .com is that the best site ?? I've got Martha Holland a death in 1909 aged 60 swindon - make birth 1849? I found a William Holland dies in wilts Jan _March 1910 , how to I tell which one ?
Basically I'm trying to find out the date of birth for Martha ( Thomas's Mother) Holland so that I can order a birth cert for her and make sure I've got the right one.
William should be around on the 1911 - he didn't die until 1944, or at least there's a possible death reg for him then.
William Holland 89 march qtr 1944 Swindon vol 5a pg 10
& there's a possible remarriage in 1932
Albert Edward & William James Holland look to be in Merthyr Tydfil in 1911
Didn't you say Martha's death reg was march qtr 1909?
::)
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I would like to order marriage certs for Martha's marriage to William Holland in 1881 and her marriage to John Smith in 1870.
Can anyone please advise me what is the best way of ordering the certs as I need to check that Martha's fathers name is LOVEDAY. I cant seem to find any spouse details regrding her marriage am I using the wrong site?
Once I get her marriage cert I can then (I hope) sort out her birth cert
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for bmds, use this one
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
It's easier to match spouses on it.
You need to wait for the marriage cert before you order the birth cert as you won't know if it's correct otherwise. If the father is Jonathan, I've given you the reg. The GRO don't offer a checking service any longer, so you'll need to get the certificates from the local office
certificatesatwiltshire.gov.uk
replacing at with @
On FreeBmd, click on the registration district to see which parishes are in it. The look at the bottom of the page & it should say where the registers are now, click on the place name & you'll find a list of address like this
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/regoff.html#788
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the 1901 census shows a William Holland aged 50 in Southwick (RG13/1938 folio 24 pg 4) who may account for the 1910 death reg in Westbury as that district covers these parishes
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/westbury.html
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Thank you again for all your work.
I ordered Thomas H Loveday birth cert today over the phone with credit card at Swindon registrars office. Helpful people , I'll try that for the Holland marriage cert do you think.
I've just found a MIGRATION thanks again to this forun for a Thomas LOVEDAY in 1911. 222 Dec 1911 London - Sydney ORSOVA - states single male grocer. Could this be him. Any idea where I might get an age of this passenger?
for bmds, use this one
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
It's easier to match spouses on it.
You need to wait for the marriage cert before you order the birth cert as you won't know if it's correct otherwise. If the father is Jonathan, I've given you the reg. The GRO don't offer a checking service any longer, so you'll need to get the certificates from the local office
certificatesatwiltshire.gov.uk
replacing at with @
On FreeBmd, click on the registration district to see which parishes are in it. The look at the bottom of the page & it should say where the registers are now, click on the place name & you'll find a list of address like this
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/regoff.html#788
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the age should be on the record. Doesn't seem to be in this case. This voyage is December 1911, so he should be on the 1911 census.
You could ask on the Australian board to see if they can find any record of him after his arrival. There aren't census records available, but there are electoral rolls and prents names are sometimes on bmds.
If Swindon allow you to order that way, it's fine. Not all offices do. There's no way of telling until you try.
;)
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Just checked the 1911 census again but cannot find him, off to the Australia board. Thanks.
the age should be on the record. Doesn't seem to be in this case. This voyage is December 1911, so he should be on the 1911 census.
You could ask on the Australian board to see if they can find any record of him after his arrival. There aren't census records available, but there are electoral rolls and prents names are sometimes on bmds.
If Swindon allow you to order that way, it's fine. Not all offices do. There's no way of telling until you try.
;)
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Just received the birth cert of Thomas Henry LOVEDAY born 21 Dec 1866. Only his mother Martha LOVEDAY is recorded and Thomas was born in the Union Workhouse Stratton St Margaret.
Martha Loveday went on to be Martha HOLLAND who in 1907 looked after Thomas's daughter Eliza Jane before she was placed in Barnados in 1908.
I am still trying to find what happened to Thomas Henry LOVEDAY. I can find no death for him in the UK at all; I can only find 1 migration shipping record for a possibility who went to Aussie. Unfortunately that was not him.
Have I missed anything, where could he be?
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he could have been on a ship as crew. How about the States? Have you tried the Ellis Island site?
http://www.ellisisland.org/
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Just tried that no luck?
he could have been on a ship as crew. How about the States? Have you tried the Ellis Island site?
http://www.ellisisland.org/
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Can you help please with my family research.
I am trying to trace the death of Thomas Loveday born 1867 who married Elizabeth Davies in 1890 in Cardiff. They had 5 children shown on 1901 census.
rose loveday married edward williams and went on to have 4 children, islwyn, iorwerth, megan and myfannwy, for the rest of the tree feel free to provide an e-mail address,
thank you
I am trying to trace the whereabouts of the offspring of their 5 children.
Thomas Francis Loveday 1892 - 1960 - 2 children XXX
Elizabeth loveday born 1894
Eliza J Loveday b. 1896
Rose Loveday 1898
Bertha Loveday 1900-1985 who married Henry Blackburn.
Thank you for any help.
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Hi, if you are still interested, I can help you with information on Rosa
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Hi, if you are still interested, I can help you with information on Rosa
yes please, this is my mothers family.
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Hi, Rosa was my great grandmother. Her mother had a shop in Tiger bay, she died of blood poisoning. Thomas her father we don't know what happened, her brother told her that he was killed at sea on HMS Tiger, but I have not found his name amongst the casualties. I believe this was a made up story. Her stepfather was a very kind man Rosa said. He wanted her to live with him after her mothers death, but the mothers familly wanted the children with them, a were taken in, Frank the oldest brother wanted Rosa with him, and contributed towards her keep.
I will post more If I can help you further
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Do you want to know the whereabouts of the others? I can ask my grandmother Megan. We moved to Gibbonsdown farm in Barry after Nelson
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Do you want to know the whereabouts of the others? I can ask my grandmother Megan. We moved to Gibbonsdown farm in Barry after Nelson
Hi
thank you so much for responding. I will PM you with my email address to make things a little easier. My Great Granny and your great great granny is Elizabeth Davies BUT she had another 5 children including my Granny with Lawrence Galvin ( a long story here!) .
I have found Rosa's siblings Thomas Francis and Bertha families and also Rosa'a sister Eliza Jane who went to Barnado's home and then Canada - very sad story. Rosa also had a sister Elizabeth born 1893 but not quite sure what happened to her . Do you know.
Thomas is a mystery ??? he definitely disappeared between 1900 and 1901 - tried everything but could not find him. A death at sea would be a good possibility. Lots lots more on this !!! Have you a picture of your great granny Elizabeth Davies ??? So exciting
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I can find no record of Elizabeths marriage to Rosa's stepfather Lawrence ( My great Grandad) I believe they did not marry ; no divorce or death of Thomas Loveday either. Then of course my Great Granny Elizabeth Davies died so young in such tragic circumstances.