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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: Bermudagirl on Friday 28 May 10 20:41 BST (UK)
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Hello! I am trying to track down my great great grandfather Alexander Scott, but with no success.
I have him on the 1851 census as a groom at Brechin Castle. His soon to be wife is also there as a kitchen maid (Elizabeth Duke born 1/4/1825 Edzell). Well actually they had to marry... but that's another story. According to the census Alexander was born in Linton, Roxburgh about 1825. However on the 1861 census (by which time his wife had died) he is living in Edinburgh with the 4 children and a servant. He is described as a coachman domestic servant(?) and born in Kelso, Roxburghshire.
I do have an Alexander Scott born in Linton on the 1841 census, but he is a joiners apprentice, and it looks like he is no longer living at home, which means I don't have his parents. I have him in the 1871 census with a new wife Helen Aitken and his place of birth is again given as Linton, but I can't find him after that. But more importantly, I am trying to trace his parents, and find a birth record for him. Can anyone help?
it would be much appreciated!
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Hi, have you been on scotlandspeople? If you find a marriage certificate for Alexander & Helen, details of their parents will be on it.
Regards,
flst
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Thanks for reminding me! As the previous marriage was before 1855, there wasn't much detail, but of course there should be more this time! I'll go and have a look!
Well, I've hunted on ScotlandsPeople. I've found his parents and 4 children, but not Alexander. They were all born in Stichill & Hume. I did a search for any Scott with James Scott and Mary Fleming as parents from 1795 to 1835 and got nothing apart from the 4 other children. I did the same for Linton and got nothing...I then did it for all records and still only got the 4 children
Now I'm really stuck...
Pat
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Can you tell me why your subject title is Alexander Gray & not Scott? If Alexander was born before his mother married James Scott he could have been baptised under her surname, or another man's, & been brought up by James Scott as his son. Remember that these parish registers are incomplete. Were his parents still alive when he married Helen? If so, you'd find them in the censuses.There may be other siblings you haven't come across yet so it's always best to follow the family through the censuses.The informant on the death certificates could give you a lead to other family members.
flst
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Sorry! Got myself totally confused. It is Alexander Scott and his first wife was Elizabeth Duke. I was getting confused with Gray because one of his daughters married my great great grandfather. Sorry about that. It's just that I have "Gray" in my head and made a mistake with Alexander's last name. It is definitely Scott!
What is confusing is that the date for the 2nd marriage is given as 26/2/1864 in Perth according to Scotlandspeople. But when their daughter Margaret Hay Scott was born, the date is given as 7/11/186 (something - can't make out the last number). Now you might say that its a different Alexander Scott, but according to the 1871 census, it has Alexander Scott, his 2nd wife Mary, Mary Helen Scott (my great great grandmother, and daughter from his 1st marriage), Agnes, also a daughter from his 1st marriage (infact his first wife died while having Agnes) and Margaret H, the daughter from his 2nd marriage. All the ages seem to be about right, so it does seem to be the same Alexander.
But I'm still stuck, trying to find a record of his birth...
I've just bought myself a map of Kelso and the surrounding area. Most of my "Grays" come from Sprouston, there are others in the family from Eckford and Linton isn't that far away. I still have a feeling he came from Linton, but still not having any success finding him, especially if the other children I found were indeed his brothers and sister, they are all born in Stichill & Hume, which again is in the same area as all the other places mentioned! It can get quite frustrating not being able to find that "link"!
Pat
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Hi Pat
Have you looked at the 1864 marriage that you have found on SP to see what it says about Alexander and Helen's parents to let you confirm the details?
Could this be young Agnes, following the death of her mother Elizabeth in the 1861 census:
John Scott 36 , ploughman, b. Stelihell On House, Berwickshire
Elisabeth Scott 29 b. Sprouston, Roxburghshire
Elisabeth S Scott 5 b. Eckford, Roxburghshire
James Scott 2 b. Ednam, Roxburghshire
Agnes Scott 3 Months, niece b. Edinburgh
Address: Cherrytrees Cottages, Yetholm, Roxb.
Monica :)
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Two potential more children showing for Alexander Scott and Helen Aitken on IGI:
1. CHRISTINA FLEMING SCOTT Birth: 22 MAR 1869 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh
2. DAVID FLEMING SCOTT Birth: 10 MAY 1873 Kelso, Roxburgh
The additional births can also let you reconfirm parents' marriage details.
Not sure if Christina may have died young as yet doesn't show in the 1871 census entry you have for Alexander and Helen and children.
I think this might be young David staying with half sister Elizabeth (daughter of Elizabeth Duke) in the 1881 census:
Elizabeth Scott 26, Shopkeeper Temperance Repentment Rooms (sound like fun!) b. Musselburgh, Edinburghshire
David F Scott 9, brother b. Kelso
Address: 28 Valleyfield St, Edinburgh
Monica
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Thanks Monica! I had come across David Fleming Scott, but didn't have Christina. Now it's getting complicated!. According to Davids birth record his parents were married in Perth and it looks like 25/2/1862. Margaret 's birth record has the marriage date as 7/11/186 something. The actual marriage record says 26/2/1864.I've just got Christina's and it says 25/2/1865 in Perth! The parents are correct. I think I'm going to scream! All I can say is someone didn't have a very good memory!
That's curious. Will check the 1881 census, but I have Elizabeth Scott married to Thomas Davidson on the 1901 census, and my grandfather was staying with them in Edinburgh as both his parents had died and he was about 9. Doesn't look like Thomas and Elizabeth had any children.
Tee hee, as you say "Temperance Repentment Rooms" sound like such a bundle of laughs!!!
Pat
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I think you are likely to have the right parents for Alexander Scott in James Scott and Mary Fleming, as you have been able to verify through his 1864 marriage to Helen.
Also, likely the John Scott, uncle who young Agnes was living with in 1861, is probably the one from this entry to the parents as you have:
JOHN SCOTT Birth: 12 NOV 1822 Stitchel, Roxburgh
I would guess the birth place trancription on John Scott's, of Stelihell On House, is likely to be closer to Stichill & Hume on the original image ::)
Monica
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Still can't find a birth record for Alexander though...
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It's always the case Pat, that the entry that you are looking for is not the one to be found!
There are only 4 children showing for James and Mary Fleming and these entries were all in Stichhill following their marriage in 1815 in Eckford. Could well be that parish registers for Linton have not all survived over the years unfortunately :-\
Monica
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Yes, it looks like that, Monica. its annoying that the census for 1831 no longer exists...
Pat
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What remains pre 1841 is unlikely to have given you necessarily the information you are looking for unfortunately. For genealogy purposes, the main census trail starts from 1841. As it is, you can see the difference in terms of info between 1841 and 1851 as the census programme began to gather more info.
From Alexander's marriage entry to Helen, what occupation was given for father James?
Monica
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It says labourer, but I think I have found him on the 1851 census and accord to that he's a gardener.
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That entry makes sense Pat, with daughter Elizabeth likely unmarried and living with parents. Possible entry for James, still showing as a gardener in 1861:
James Scott, 70, gardener, b. Hawick - Douglas Square, Castleton
Likely wife Mary had already died, can't see a death for her though post 1855 which is a pity.
Monica
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And in 1841:
James Scott 50, gardener
Mary Scott 50 b. Scotland
Elisabeth Scott 22, agr. lab.
Address: Cherrytrees, Yetholm
And Cherrytrees is where we found young Agnes staying with her uncle, John Scott, in 1861.
Monica
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It could well be him. I had a quick look for a death for his wife but no luck. I'm guessing Elisabeth was another daughter I knew nothing about, and after appearing on the 1841 and 1851 census, she either got married or had died...
Pat
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Can i confuse you even more. James married mary fleming at Eckford 21-10-1815.
In Ecford cemetery there is an entry for James Scott 1st wife Alison Rae 2nd wife Janet GRAY One of their children Alexander died 4-11-1862 aged 61yrs other children James Thomas Barbara and Ralph.
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Thanks for that, but I don't think that's my Alexander... I have him born about 1825/1826 in Kelso or Linton. On the 1861 census he is listed as being 30. He married his 2nd wife in 1864 and his age is listed as 35 (which more or less ties in with the 1861 census). However confusingly, the 1851 census has him being 26, and on the 1841 census he is listed as being 15 (which is what I roughly calculated his date of birth from....
Anyway, it looks like my Alexander was still alive in the 1870s when he had a son David Fleming Scott (although I haven't been able to find him yet on the 1881 census, and of course I don't have a birth or death record for him.)I do know he was dead by 1889 when my great grandparents got married)Why are some people so illusive...?
Not too sure about his parents. I have the marriage at Eckford 21/10/1815, and then I found at least 5 siblings for Alexander (I think...) James, John, Jane, William and Elisabeth! As you say, this is so confusing!
Pat
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Hello! I am trying to track down my great great grandfather Alexander Scott, but with no success.
I have him on the 1851 census as a groom at Brechin Castle. His soon to be wife is also there as a kitchen maid (Elizabeth Duke born 1/4/1825 Edzell). Well actually they had to marry... but that's another story. According to the census Alexander was born in Linton, Roxburgh about 1825. However on the 1861 census (by which time his wife had died) he is living in Edinburgh with the 4 children and a servant. He is described as a coachman domestic servant(?) and born in Kelso, Roxburghshire.
I do have an Alexander Scott born in Linton on the 1841 census, but he is a joiners apprentice, and it looks like he is no longer living at home, which means I don't have his parents. I have him in the 1871 census with a new wife Helen Aitken and his place of birth is again given as Linton, but I can't find him after that. But more importantly, I am trying to trace his parents, and find a birth record for him. Can anyone help?
it would be much appreciated!
My great grandmother was Agnes Scott daughter of Alexander Scott and Elizabeth Duke. She married William Murray in Edinburgh in 1895. Thanks to you I only have Jane Scott the eldest child of Alexander and Elizabeth to find. Do you know what happened to her? I have David Fleming Scott married to a Mary ? with two children on the 1901 census. Both children born in England. He was golf club maker.
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It's lovely to hear from a relation (even if a distant one!). Am just back from holiday so am not really in "family tree mode" at the moment, so will have to get out the records and refresh my memory about that side of the family!Do you have any info about Alexander Scott? He's very illusive!!! Will check my records about Jane Scott and get back to you. We must keep in touch. Would you be happy to exchange email addresses?
Pat
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Like you I was not able to find a birth record for Alexander. He died on 10 April 1878 at 129 Roxburgh St Kelso aged 52 years. His parents were James Scott and Mary Fleming. The death informant for Alexander was his brother James Scott. His two wives are listed as Elizabeth Duke and Helen Fleming which we know is an error as his #2 wife was Helen Aitken. His mother, Mary Fleming died 15 January 1862 in Roxburgh daughter of William Fleming and Jeannie Robson. As yet I've not found a death entry for James Scott. It's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack. Far too many James Scotts in that part of Scotland.
I found a Jane Scott born Brechin aged 29 on the 1881 census. She was a servant cook at Lathallun House Kilconquhar Fife. I wonder if that's our Jane ?
I have some information on the Dukes from Edzell. I would be happy to exchange email addresses. Is this allowed on this site? I have lived in New Zealand for the last 44 years but I was born in Greenock.
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Hi & welcome to rootschat! Now that you've sent 3 posts you can send people private messages (p.m.'s). To do this, click on the green scroll on the left hand side of the post. This is to prevent scammers.
Regards,
flst
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In kelso rosebank cemetery there is a James died Kelso 1887 aged 66 with a wife Mary Cleghorn and children James Janet and William and a daughter Mary Fleming Scott wife of a William Currie. I thought the Fleming might be relevant. and add to the confusion.
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Thanks very much - will file that away to investigate asap!
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The James Scott who married Mary Cleghorn was the brother of Alexander Scott. So thank you for that information. Looks like their daughter Mary married a Currie. I will look it up on Scotlandspeople.
I have a question for all you experts out there. One of my ancestors who died in 1869 made a Will in which he left a small amount of money to his grandchild Jean Ramsay. I have no idea who she is. I suspect that she is the illegitimate daughter of one of his children. I'm trying to get a grip on how old Jean would be at the time the Will was made. Does the fact that the money was NOT left in trust for her until she reached a certain age, relevant, or under Scottish law, could a child inherit money
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Sorry I cant help re her inheritance. However also in Kelso there is a headstone erected to her Uncle W.Ramsay who died 10=5=1932 and his wife Agnes T. Scott, .It gives no indication who she was!
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Sorry, What I did not say was that it was a James Duke in Edzell, Angus who left the money to his grandchild, Jean Ramsay
Since my last posting I have found that David Fleming Scott married Mary Hunter Lowe in Lancashire in 1894. Her parents were James Lowe and Margaret Hunter, for anyone out there who may be interested. James came from Liverpool but Margaret was from Aberdeen and that is where they married. James Lowe was a master gardener.