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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wiltshire Lookup Requests => Wiltshire => England => Wiltshire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: asherman on Wednesday 26 May 10 11:52 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace the baptism and marriage of Henry ANDREWS with a possible middle name of Leonard. According to census information he was born 1842. I believe he was illegitimate and his mother was Ann ANDREWS, however in 1851 census he is living with his grandparents Richard and Jane ANDREWS in Devizes, Ann was not listed. His brother Andrew was hypothetically baptised in Southbroom St James in 1852, even though he was born in 1844, but as far as I am aware Henry was not baptised at the same time, which suggests the family where aware that he had been baptised earlier. One known fact about Henry is that he was born deaf and dumb and worked as a Tailor.
According to the 1861 Census in Devizes, Henry was single, but by the 1871 census in London he was widowed. Henry remarried in London in Sept 1871, and was also shown as a widower.
I would be very grateful if someone could check the baptism registers for 1841 (to be on the safe side) to1852 when Andrew was baptised, and the marriage registers between 1861 and 1871.
There is some confusion (in the census returns) as to whether Henry Leonard ANDREWS was born in Devizes (the family lived in the parish of Southbroom St James) or Marylebone, London, so any assistance wuld be very gratefully recieved.
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Hi
Which part of london do you think Henry married
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So do you expect to find his baptism in Wiltshire ???
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I thought I might work on the marriage bit for awhile
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There is a baptism on Ancestery for a Henry Andrews June q. 1843 Devizes, Wilts, cannot see one with a middle name of Leonard.
But it is clear that there are lots of Andrews in the Wiltshire area so we must be cautious.
I will take a look for the marriage as well.
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There is some confusion (in the census returns) as to whether Henry Leonard ANDREWS was born in Devizes
I states quite clearly in the 1871 census that he was born in Devizes Wilts.
He is living in Bermonsdey area... St Olave Southwark
He remarried in Sept q 1871 in Whitechapel
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I believe he was illegitimate and his mother was Ann
Why do you think this. ???
His marriage in 1871 states father John Andrews a Bankers Clerk, although I do realise this information was often falsified if the person was illegitimate.
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Hi,
It seems the grandparents thought he was born in London. Once he started speaking for himself on the census he stated Devizes in 1871, 1881 and 1891. Nothing certain unfortunately. As he grew up there he may have thought he was born there. Funny the grandparents don't think he was born locally and you would think they would know. Now in 1901 just for something completely different he gives Melbourne Australia and in 1911 London. It is a pity the name Leonard does not appear to have been used in the birth registration. Oh so many Henry Andrews.
Cheers Kris :)
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Wow what a lots of replies. thank you all.
1st to Nicky C - possibly Bermondsey which is where he was living before moving to Battersea. However he married his 2nd wife Charlotte Marsh in Whitechapel.
2nd to Patrish - to save you checking other census returns, the 1871 and 1891 state he was born in Devizes, 1851, 1861 say London, 1881 and 1901 say Melbourne (probably should be Marylebone the same as his possible brother Andrew), and the 1911 says Wandesworth. (Andrew's is alittle clearer London for 1851 and 61, Devizes for 1871 and Marylebone for the rest - but he was still baptised in Southbroom St James. I hope for a baptism in Wilts because he was iving there with his mosthrs family, however she could have had him baptised in London before he was sent to Wiltshire ???
As for the 1843 birth cert, a cousin has already ordered this and ruled it out as his parents are William and Ann Andrews of Lavington, and we have linked him to another branch of the family.
I know it is confusing but that is why I need your help - I just dont know where to start.
thanks
Anne
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Hi Kris
I think the enumerator has got a bit mixed up and perhaps thought that Melbourne must be in Australia, I tend to go with the grandparrents and believe it is Marylebone, which Andrew has as his birth place. Unfortunately Henry couldn't speak for himself (he was deaf and dumb), so his communication would have been hand written, and spelling may not have been his best point.
thanks
Anne
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Hi Anne,
You are right 1881 is Melbourne also (clearly) :-[ I should have double checked. I had gone through the entries earlier today and just posted without rechecking them. His writing does seem very good on the marriage entry. (his signature) I wonder if it may pay to check Victorian Births just in case. I was wondering if a deaf man speaking may mean Marylebone sounds like Melbourne - I can imagine it certainly would but stating he was deaf and dumb rather than just deaf I presume he could not speak. He certainly did very well for a deaf person in those times to be literate and a tailor.
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Kris,
I can speak from personal experience as I have 2 deaf cousins, unfortunately the deaf always were and still are labled with "dumb" even the a great many of them can and were able speak but things certainly do sound different because they are not able to use tone or pitch in thier voices.
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Hi Patrish,
I know what you mean. Melbourne/Marylebone I can see that being misheard when a deaf person speaks. He was very lucky to have had his grandparents. They must have spent a lot of time working with him. He could just as well gotten lost in an institution somewhere.
Alas the Southbroom baptisms are on the IGI and he does not appear. Not seeing him listed in Marylebone either.
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Kris
I understand that even in those days they did have schools for the deaf, although I think it was mainly in London. Henrys 2nd wife Charlotte was also born deaf and was a dressmaker, so perhaps it is an occupation that suited them. Henry's uncle was a tailor so I would think he was trained within the family.
Anne
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Hi All
I checked the fiche of the parish records today for Southbroom St James Devizes and can confirm that between 1841 - 1853 there were only two ANDREWs christenings:-
-Andrew s of Ann ANDREWS of This Chapelry and mother is Single July 18 1852
-Henry Nelson ANDREWS who I beleive you have already discounted.
Interestingly there were two ANDREWS marriage entries between 1861-1872:-
-1863 Nov 2 by licence
Andrew ANDREWS, full age, bachelor, Seaman, Portsmouth, Richard ANDREWS, Postman
Martha Hanna GODDARD, Minor, Spinster, This Chapelry, John GODDARD, Labourer
Both sign
Witnesses William BRIGHT & Mary Ann GODDARD
-1867 Jan 1
Andrew ANDREWS, Full age, bachelor, Fireman on the railway, Parish of Molesey East Middlesex, No father entered
Mary Ann COOLE, full age, spinster, No occ, This chapelry, Stephen COOLE, Brewer
Both sign
Witnesses William COOLE & William THOMAS
So I suppose this hasn't really added anything new, but at least a Henry baptism & marriage can be discounted at Southbroom!
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Many thanks.
The marriage of the fireman and the bapt of Andrew relates to the same person (the bapt was rather later in the day). Andrew actually returned to his home town to get married before going back to London to live out the rest of his days. Henry Nelson is a cousin of Andrew and the Henry I am looking for. The other Andrew marriage is the uncle of Andrew the fireman and Henry. I did not have the details of the other marriage so that proved useful anyway.
As you say I can now rule out Southbroom, and so must turn my attention to the larger area of Marylebone.
Thanks everyone