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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: twistedbranches on Wednesday 26 May 10 03:27 BST (UK)
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Any information regarding PRIMEIRON FRANK HARRIS.
Born 26 November, 1820 Bloomsbury London England. Christened 14 March, 1821 Saint Mary, Saint Marylebone Road London England.
Father John Harris.
Mother Rebecca. maiden name unknown
Primeiron came to Australia around 1825 first arriving in Western Australia then going to New South Wales in 1833 on the ship 'Jolly Rambler'. He came to Australia with his uncle William Harris and the family story is that he and his uncle didn't get along to well and Primeiron run away settling in the Bungonia/ Goulburn area of New South Wales where he changed his surname to GRANT. He married Julia Collins in 1844 NSW.... the name of Primeiron has been spelt many different ways one being Primiron but he mostly went under the name of Francis Grant in some of the listings that I have found on him.
Does anyone know where the name of Primeiron comes from as it is such an unusual name.
Would love to find out his mother's maiden name.
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Hi, I am very green to this, Primiron Grant was my GGG Gf, cant help with Rebecca's maiden name but have just been given some photos of Primiron and Julia collins if interested. I am a descendant of Walter Grant.
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat
St Mary Marylebone 14th March 1821 born 26th November 1820
Primeiron Frank Harris parents John and Rebecca, St Marylebone, father's occupation blank
Only child for John and Rebecca Harris baptised at St Marylebone
For him to travel with his uncle and his family to Australia when he was only 5 would indicate something had happened to his family. Have you researched his uncle and his origins to try and find out more about Primeiron's father?
Regards
Valda
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Not as yet, my mother researched for some years. I am just going through all her info now as she has passed on.
I have contacted a distant relative and no new info has come to light. I am very new to this but am very intrigued I know that my mother was very much wanting to know what happened.
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Hi there Grant Family,
Sorry that I haven't replied until now I don't get to use the computer a lot and I have just found your posting..........if you have any photos of the family I would be greatly interested in seeing them. I have been trying for a long time to trace this family in England without much success and Primeiron's name is so unusual. The Grant line in our family comes down from Frances Walter Grant who married Mary Carlaton/Carleton in the Goulburn-Bungonia area of NSW.
Trying to find anything on his uncle William Harris as been difficult too.
Cheers Aileen.......... :D
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Hello grant family, twistedbranches and Valda
I am also descended from Walter Grant and have found other information about Primiron Francis on a family website. Is it permissable to refer you to that website through this chat?
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat
There is no reason why you can't place a link on this topic to further information.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda
The website is the Whaite Family. Go to
www.whaitefamily.com/index
Now, why doesn't that show as a hyperlink?
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Hello All,
I am also a descendant of Primeiron Grant. He actually died at age 96 near Warialda, NSW. His daughter, Rebecca and son-in-law George Hamilton lived there. Rebecca looked after him until his death. We also have a photograph of him but I would love to see any more if anyone has them. The fact that my great-grandmother's name was Rebecca is either a coincidence or his mother's name was Rebecca Harris. He came over in 1833 on a ship called Jolly Rambler, with his uncle William Harris and his family. She was built in Broadstairs, Kent. William Harris was a goldsmith. It is true that Frank didn't get along with his uncle. Frank went to gaol a couple of times - once with his son, Frank. The records are in the State Records of NSW. Unfortunately, the book of petty sessions was destroyed, so, no details of the case are around.
After reading some of the posts, would like to say that he actually came to Australia under the name Francis Primeiron GRANT. He did not change his name.
Anyway, it's nice to meet new relatives. Hope to hear from someone.
Regards,
Rose.
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Hi Rose,
Nice to here from you.
I have been researching Primiron Frances Grant for a while now, he is my husbands greatgreat grandfather his grandson Joseph Robert William Grant is my husbands grandfather. {Francis Grant is his great grandfather}.
I found the baptism entry of Primeiron Frank Harris for 1820 his father's name was John Harris and his mother's name was Rebbecca but there is no maiden name for her. If you have access to ancestry.com the listing is there. I was able to access it through the state archives for free and I think you can do the same at your local library.
Primiron is listed in the Braidwood Goal Entrance entry and there is a bit of info on him not much though he is also listed there under the name of Francis Grant as is his son Francis. Just a brief discription of them.
Just Google Braidwood Goal and it should pop up, scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on seach database then type in thr name of Grant.
Could you possibly email me a photo of him as I would love to see what he looked like.
His grandson Joseph R W Grant was a very tall thin person I have one photo of him in his later years if you would like to see it.
Cheers Aileen.........
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Hi Aileen,
Already have all the information on Frank in the gaol, but thank you, anyway. He was only 5 feet 4 inches with brown hair and fresh complexion. He was put in for larceny, from memory - those were much harsher times.
No-one, as yet, has been able to find Rebecca, his mother,although I was told that she died on the voyage over here and someone else in the family told me that there was a carriage accident.
The photograph of Primiron was given to me by my second cousin (now in her nineties). It is of Primiron with my great uncles, Felix and Frank Hamilton when they are quite young children. I think Primiron is in his seventies. It isn't the clearest in the but passable.
Anyway, nice to be in contact.
All the best,
Rose.
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Hi Rose,
I have been trying to piece together all the information I can on Primiron/Primeiron Grant/Harris, every little bit counts in putting his life together. I haven't heard about his mother dying on the voyage over or a carriage accident. Have you found anything on the ship's records of his arrival, I found that he and his uncle first arrived in Western Australia and then came to New South Wales in 1833.
Next time I get to the archives I will see if I can find the ship's arrival. I don't live to far away from them.
There is an entry in the State Archives for his son in 1870 on a charge of indecent assult but that's all I could find.
Eliza Collins is also listed in Braidwood Gaol.
If I give you my email address could you please email me his photo.
It is *
Cheers Aileen......... :D
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to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hello all posters on the topic of Primiron Grant. Thank you for the fantastic info. He is my GGG Gf. How amazing to discover through putting my beloved grandmother's maiden name into google, that i had a GGG Gf called Primiron. My Gm was Alma Rose Grant b1910 d 1986. I have also just learned about Sarah Agnes Grant, my grandmother's aunt, from the Whaite family site (the one mentioned in this topic) this is my first ever go at a genealogy forum. I just checked with my father if he knew of his great aunt Sarah but had never heard a whisper about her. She was killed in a railway accident in Glenelg, South Australia according to the whaite website. This wouldn't be the carriage accident referred to here as the generation is later? I'd love to see any Grant family photos. Kind Regards, Sam
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Hi there Sam,
If you type in 'tribalpages' on Google and type in Primiron Grant aka Primeiron Frank Harris/Grant in the search box and then scroll down and click on to my family tree which is called twistedtreesandtangledbranches Robson-Grant family tree you will see photos of Primiron and also his wife Julia Collins and other and also information on Primiron Grant.
His real surname was Harris and his parents were John Harris and Rebecca. No one knows why he changed his surname to Grant it's a bit of a mystry.
If you have any trouble finding it just contact me through the personal message option on rootschat.
Cheers Aileen....... ;D
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Hello Rose,
I am yet another decendent of Primeiron Francis Grant. I have just read that you believe he came to Australia under the name of Grant and not Harris. Can you please tell me what makes you believe this. I have been looking for info for a few years now and have never found any immigration or passenger lists for him under either Harris or Grant. I think we all believe it was Harris as the only record for anyone with that name was born in England in 1820 with the Surname Harris.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Lee Hill
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Hi Lee, My name is Aileen Robson and I got your rootschat notice about Primiron Grant who I have been researching, he is my husband's greatgreat grandfather.
Primiron Grant aka Primeiron FranK Harris son of John Harris and Rebecca first arrived in the Swan river area of Western Australia on the ship 'Jolly Rambler' With his uncle William Harris and William's wife and children some time around 1832? they then came to New South Wales again supposedly on the 'Jolly Rambler' around 1833-1835?. it was after this that he seems to have changed his name.
I find the entry on the internet if I can find it again I will let you know. Or you can try Googleing the name of the ship and see what came up. that's what I did.
I sometimes wonder if his mother's maiden name was Grant. Wishful thinking on my part I suppose
Hope that this has been of some help to you
Cheers Aileen.......... :D
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Hello Lee,
He certainly was a prolific chap, wasn't he? He is listed as GRANT on the passenger list of the Jolly Rambler, along with his uncle, his uncle's wife and their children. I'll have to look at the thing again, but another cousin of ours found the entry when she went to the Society of Genealogists in Sydney. I believe another person found this too but I'm not sure that she would want to be on this chat site, so I'll leave her name out. On the printout, it clearly states that his name was GRANT, Francis Primeiron. This was from the Battye Library in Western Australia, on the index of ships. I too thought he must have changed his name to Grant after he arrived, given his history with his uncle, William Harris - it seemed logical, however, not so.
I wrote away for Primeiron's cousin's (Mary Ann Harris) death certificate, hoping to find more information on his uncle, William Harris, but it did not shed any more light on the subject. Her mother's maiden name was not listed.
Anyway, the name, Grant, on docking in Sydney is a certainty.
Cheers,
Rose.
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Hi Aileen and Rose,
Thank you both for replying to my post. I will have to do some more research Rose. I had found the passenger list for the Jolly Ramblers voyage from the Swan River to Port Jackson. A William Harris,his wife and four children are listed. Perhaps this is not the right family. I will post again if I discover anything new. I will be in Perth next week so will try to get to the State Libary and see what I can discover.
Has anyone ordered Primeiron's Death certificate or marriage certificate to Julia Collin's? These may shed some light on Primeiron's parents. If no one has, I will order them and let you all know.
Once again Thank You. Lee Hill
PS I have contacted the Waite family tree owner and have given details of my branch of the Grant tree. I have received an email saying that these details have been added to the Waite Tree.
regards
Regard
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Hi Lee, I am so glad rose gave you the information about Primiron Grants name on the ship's records. Rose has done a great job gathering information on the family.
You don't have to order his death certificate or marriage certificate I have them both and can email them to you if you can send me your private email address through the private message option.
The certificates don't shed ant light on his parents at all though. I do have a copy of his baptisim record from England I will email that to you too although it might be difficult to read as it is a small image.
Cheers Aileen........ :D
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I am not a member of this family but had a dear freind (now deceased) who was.
The only other Primeirons I can find are descended from:
Lieutenant-Colonel Prime-Iron Rochfort, a Cromwellian solder, who was shot on 14 May 1652, after trial by court-martial at Cork House, Dublin, for having killed Major Turner.
His most famous descendants were Earls of Belvedere.
The mos recent I can find is Captain John Prime Iron Rochfort, R.N., whose will was written in 1813 and 1818, and proved at London in 1818. He was Irish but his principal heir was one Anna Matilda Rivers alias Rochfort, who was baptised at Lambeth in 1807.
The name appears as Prime Iron, Prime-iron and as Primeiron.
I cannot see how these Primeirons can be related to Primeiron Harris/Grant but as they are the only other Primeirons....
William Good
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Hi William,
Thank you for the information you sent I too found a small amount of info Capt. Prime Iron Rochfort and like you don't think he has anyting to do with my Primeiron Harris/Grant. Maybe his parents just name him after someone in the family. I don't know as I can not find anything more on this family other than he was born in Bloomsbury in 1820 and his surname was Harris not Grant...........half the fun of tracing family trees I suppose is trying to solve the mystery.
Again thank you very much.
Cheers Aileen. :D
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Just to throw another spanner in the works....
My 2nd great grandmother was Harriet Louisa Hodge, born abt 1823/25 and depending on which census you look at, she was born in England or the East Indies. I have no other information to go on other than her name on a birth record for her first daughter Rebecca Harriet in the Channel Islands.
She didn't marry her husband John Bewhey until 1856 in Channel Islands under the name Louisa Hodge and she was born Plymouth, Devon. Her father is listed as Henry Hodge, but I cannot find any record of her birth nor a Henry Hodge having a daughter of Harriet or Louisa.
I did however, find a record in 1822 St Mary Major, Exeter, Devon of a Louisa Harriet Harris, parents John Harris and Grace Hodge (Battishill).
In 1827, Louisa Harriet is baptised along with Mary Ann Harris?
I could have competely gone down a rabbit hole but wondering if there is any connection?