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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: sheabear on Monday 24 May 10 06:28 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I live in Australia and I am finding it abit hard to research my Ancestors in Wales. I have the following information and if anyone thinks they know of someone listed, please let me know.
Elizabeth Alice Edwards (nee Parry) b. 1871 - Wepre
George Edwards b. 1875 - Hawarden
Fanny Foster Edwards b. 1899 - Connah's Quay
Catherine Edwards b. 1904 - Connah's Quay
Herbert Edwards b. 1902 - Connah's Quay
Elizabeth Edwards b. 1901 - Connah's Quay
I am also looking for Robert's family. My ancestor is called Benjamin Roberts b. 1896 - Bagillt who married Fanny Foster Edwards. Benjamin had two older brothers that were killed in WW1 and I am trying to search who they were and where they died/are buried.
This is a long list, if anyone has information I would be very grateful.
Thanks. :)
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Hello sheabear,
The last part of your post requested information on the Roberts family.
They are in Rhyl in the 1901 census and the family shown is as follows:
Edward Roberts aged 41, widower, Farm Labourer, born Bagillt.
William John Roberts, aged 10, born Bagillt.
Thomas Roberts, aged 8, born Bagillt.
Benjamin Roberts aged 5, born Bagillt.
Ref is RG13/5236 Folio 169, page 18.
In the 1881, Edward Roberts is a lodger in a household in Bagillt. He is shown as aged 21, a collier, born Bagillt. It looks to show "married". No sign of his wife.
There is a site which shows the details of people injured and killed in the 2 world wars and it is http://www.cwgc.org
I did search for William Roberts but it produced 560 hits and difficult to narrow them down I am afraid. It may be worthwhile to go through these as sometimes they list the next of kin. For Thomas Roberts, there were 222 hits and again, hard to identify the right one.
Jo
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Hello,
Are you sure Benjamin was born in Bagillt?
Paul.
Added. Do you have his marriage details?
Paul.
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Hi
Your Elizabeth is listed with her parents and siblings in Quay Rd, Northop in 1881. They are as follows:
John Parry (b 1846 Mold) Labourer Docks
Elizabeth Parry(b. 1842 Wepre) Dressmaker
William Ed. Foster - stepson (b. 1863 Wigan) Mariner
Charles Foster -stepson (b.1865 Wepre) Mariner
Catherine Foster -stepdaughter (b. 1867 Wepre) Mariner
Elizabeth A Parry -daughter (b.1872 Wepre)
John Hughes Parry -son(B.1873 Wepre)
Benjamin Thomas Parry -son (b. 1873 Wepre)
Rachel Ann Parry -daughter (b.1877 Wepre)
Fred Kent Parry -son(b. 1880 Wepre)
Hope this helps. Let me know if you need me to go back further. The daughter being a mariner was a bit of a surprise!
I have to say, it was the mention on Wepre (pronouned 'Wepper') that caught my eye as I used to walk my spinger spaniel in Wepre Park when I lived in Wales. Lovely park and full of bluebells at this time of year...
Julie
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Thank you both Jo and Julie, thats extremely helpful information. I have also had a look at the cwgc website and not knowing where either of them where killed, it is hard to know which person is my ancestor, although there must be a way!
Does Wepre still exist? I heard that in the "olden" days, to come or live in Wepre was considered an upper-class town, is this true?
Thanks so much again, I really appreciate it. :)
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Hello sheabear, did your Benjamin Roberts marry Fanny Foster Edwards. Jan 21 1920. St Marks Connah's Quay?
Paul.
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Hi Paul,
Yes, thats correct. Fanny Foster is my Great Grandmother.
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Hello sheabear,
Just to advise that Wepre still exists today, though I think it is more part of Connah's Quay than it was at one time. It is also quite close to Ewloe Castle which is still there but in ruins, not bad for ruins though, a fair structure remains. I used to live about 4 miles from there and walked round these parts. It is a carpet of bluebells at this time of year.
I have looked to see if the service details of William and Thomas Roberts are online. I have found what could be William Roberts, his service papers are on Ancestry. At least there is quite a bit on a William Roberts who was from Bagillt. The age does not quite fit that in the census though, born 1888.
There is also an entry for Thomas Roberts which looks promising. He was in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. It states he was discharged as medically unfit. An address for him is shown and is Bagillt.
I can may be send you details via PM, or E-Mail. Do you have access to Ancestry?
Jo
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Hi Jo,
Thanks so much for the information, both William and Thomas's information you have found does sound very promising. I do have access to Ancestry and would appreciate a point in the right direction at finding the correct records on there. When an ancestor has a common name such as William Roberts, in your experience, how do you know you have found the right person?
It is very fortunate I heard of this site and that there are wonderful people on here such as yourself that are willing to help me in my quest to find my roots! I am 23 and getting married next year and would love to know where my family came from and where it all started.
Wepre sounds quite lovely. I have been to Wales a couple of times when I was very young and unfortunately don't remember a lot about it.
Thanks again for your help and sorry for the long message!
Shea :)
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Hello sheabear,
The service papers of people who were in the First World War are being put on Ancestry. There are often many pages and reading these can help to establish whether it is the person you are seeking. In the case of a common name, like Roberts is in Wales, it is always more difficult to say for sure.
The way to access these is to enter the name, place of birth and year of birth in the search boxes. This should produce various "hits" including British Army WW1 Service Records 1914-1920, UK Soldiers who dies in the Great War 1914-1919, British Army Pension Records.
In the case of William Roberts, there is one entry for a William Roberts with an address in Bagillt. There are 14 pages of records online. It shows he is a Master Butcher and married to Lavinia, living at New Bee Hive, Bagillt, Flint.
In the case of Thomas Roberts, he is shown as living at Old Yard, Bagillt, Flint and a miner. The age is about right with your relation. Next of kin shown as Maggie Roberts of Old Yard, Bagillt.
Let me know if I can be of further help.
Do you want to find any more of these in the census returns?
Jo
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shea,
George Edwards b.1875 Hawarden
1901 Census
George Edwards, Head, M, 37, Joiner, b. Hawarden
Elizabeth Edwards, Wife, M, 28, b. Northop
Bessie Edwards, Dau, 4mths, b. Hawarden
Address - 1 Ryelands Terr, Hawarden (Flint), Shotton (Census Ref RG13 3377 40 14)
1881 Census
Samuel Edwards, Head, Widower, 60, Farmer of 24 Acres
Edward T Edwards, Nephew, S, 19, Joiner
George Edwards, Nephew, 7
William Edwards, Nephew, S, 23, Engine Fitter at Works
Samuel Edwards, Nephew, 15, Clerk
Elizabeth Edwards, Niece, S, 25
Susannah Edwards, Niece, S, 21
All born Hawarden, Flintshire
Address - Machine Cottage, Saltney (Flint) (Census Ref RG11 3564 80 14)
Quite an unusual structure to the 1881 Household!
Might the above be your George Edwards?
regards
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Shea,
Have found this "possible" George Edwards on the 1891 Census - the place of birth is a bit puzzling.
William Povall, Head, M, 29, General Labourer, b. Padeswood
Elizabeth Povall, Wife, M, 35, b. Queensferry
George Edwards, Son, 16, General Labourer, b. Chemistry/Clemistry?
Harry J Povall, Son, 7, b. Queens Ferry
Annie Povall, Dau, 6, b. Queens Ferry
Horace E Povall, Son, b. Queensferry
Address - Queen's Ferry, Saltney Moor (Census Ref RG12 2869 67 7)
The marriage of William Henry Povall was registered Jun 1883 Chester 8a 579. On the same page is an Elizabeth Edwards.
If only the place of birth was more helpful. Queens Ferry is a few miles North of Hawarden
regards
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There is a Chemistry Lane, Pentre near Queensferry.
HTH,
Regards,
Megran.
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megran,
A good spot and another possible piece in the puzzle.
The site I use has transcribed as "Clemistry" but no doubt it's "Chemistry".
regards
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Hello.
marriage July 11 1898. St Deiniol, Hawarden.
George Edwards. 24. bachelor. Occ, Joiner. abode, Aston. father, William. Occ, Labourer. Deceased.
Elizabeth Alice Parry. 27. spinster. abode, Shotton. father, John.Occ, Labourer.
Witnesses. Catherine Walsh. Maggie Parry. William John Hughes & William Hughes.
Baptism registers give the following info.
When baptised. Childs Christian Name. Parents Christian & Surname. Abode. Fathers Occupation. By whom the ceremony was performed.
If you're lucky the Vicar/curate who performed the ceremony might add the date of birth & if you're very lucky mothers maiden name.
Baptisms for the children of John & Elizabeth Parry. Connah's Quay. Labourer.
Born, April 15. Baptised, May 21 1871. Elizabeth Alice.
Born, March 20. Baptised, April 6 1873. John Hughes.
Baptised, Jan 17 1875. Benjamin Thomas.
Baptised, June 3 1877. Rachel Ann. ...........Died 1881
Oct 26 1879. Fred Kent.
Oct 1 1882. Robert.
Nov 11 1885 George Henry.
Are you sure Benjamin Roberts was born Bagillt? On his marriage to Fanny Foster in 1920 his age is 21(b 1899)& abode Wepre Drive (Connah's Quay)
On the 1901 census there is a Benjamin Roberts 7 mths with a father Edward & two older brothers, Henry J. 9. & Thomas E. 5. born Northop :-\
Just a thought ::).
Paul.
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Shea,
Have found this "possible" George Edwards on the 1891 Census - the place of birth is a bit puzzling.
William Povall, Head, M, 29, General Labourer, b. Padeswood
Elizabeth Povall, Wife, M, 35, b. Queensferry
George Edwards, Son, 16, General Labourer, b. Chemistry/Clemistry?
Harry J Povall, Son, 7, b. Queens Ferry
Annie Povall, Dau, 6, b. Queens Ferry
Horace E Povall, Son, b. Queensferry
Address - Queen's Ferry, Saltney Moor (Census Ref RG12 2869 67 7)
The marriage of William Henry Povall was registered Jun 1883 Chester 8a 579. On the same page is an Elizabeth Edwards.
If only the place of birth was more helpful. Queens Ferry is a few miles North of Hawarden
regards
Hi Hanes Teulu,
Unfortunatly I don't know much about George Edwards. I am a little confused at the above record, why was his fathers last name Povall? I lean more towards this record than the others you suggested because on George Edwards's daughter Fanny Foster Edwards's marriage certificate it has George Edwards as her father (joiner) and then a "William Henry Povall" as one of the witnesses? I didn't have a link to any Povall's so I just dismissed it. Do you think this could be his family?
Thanks very much for help. :)
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Hello.
marriage July 11 1898. St Deiniol, Hawarden.
George Edwards. 24. bachelor. Occ, Joiner. abode, Aston. father, William. Occ, Labourer. Deceased.
Elizabeth Alice Parry. 27. spinster. abode, Shotton. father, John.Occ, Labourer.
Witnesses. Catherine Walsh. Maggie Parry. William John Hughes & William Hughes.
Baptism registers give the following info.
When baptised. Childs Christian Name. Parents Christian & Surname. Abode. Fathers Occupation. By whom the ceremony was performed.
If you're lucky the Vicar/curate who performed the ceremony might add the date of birth & if you're very lucky mothers maiden name.
Baptisms for the children of John & Elizabeth Parry. Connah's Quay. Labourer.
Born, April 15. Baptised, May 21 1871. Elizabeth Alice.
Born, March 20. Baptised, April 6 1873. John Hughes.
Baptised, Jan 17 1875. Benjamin Thomas.
Baptised, June 3 1877. Rachel Ann. ...........Died 1881
Oct 26 1879. Fred Kent.
Oct 1 1882. Robert.
Nov 11 1885 George Henry.
Are you sure Benjamin Roberts was born Bagillt? On his marriage to Fanny Foster in 1920 his age is 21(b 1899)& abode Wepre Drive (Connah's Quay)
On the 1901 census there is a Benjamin Roberts 7 mths with a father Edward & two older brothers, Henry J. 9. & Thomas E. 5. born Northop :-\
Just a thought ::).
Paul.
Hi Paul,
Wow, that other 1901 census has thrown a spanner in the works!! I am totally confused! I have Benjamin Roberts and Fanny Foster Edwards's marriage certificate infront of me and it says they were married 21st February 1920 St Marks, Connah's Quay. It says Benjamin was 21 which would make his birth year 1899. He has Edward Roberts as his father (farm laborer). I don't have Benjamin's birth certificate and therefore don't really know his details.. I think the 1901 census you found is more likely than the one I found (where they were all born in Bagillt) although the age in this latest census you found Benjamin is only 7 months, which doesn't make sense if he was born in 1899 (does it??). The only thing I do know that my Mother told me was that Benjamin had two (older?) brothers that went to the war and were killed. Benjamin also served but returned home safely. I am not sure if he had older sisters etc? Mum says his birthday was 7th/8th March (year unknown)...
I'm sorry, my details are sketchy, my grandparents have both passed away and I reply on what my Mum can remember.
I will be able to fill in the blanks now with the information you gave regarding John & Elizabeth Parry's children.
Thanks so much for your help. :)
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Shea,
My post mentioned the marriage of William Henry Povall and that there was an Elizabeth Edwards on the same page. On the 1891 Census Henry Povall's wife= Elizabeth, confirming he married Elizabeth Edwards (she was the only Elizabeth on the page).
The deduction is that George, age 16, is Elizabeth's Povall's son by an earlier marriage when she was known as Edwards .This is reinforced by Paul's latest post with details of George's marriage in 1898 (Father = William Edwards, Labourer).
FreeBMD has the marriage of William Edwards and Elizabeth Price, March 1873,Chester 8a 515 - could be George's parents?
Re the other Census details, William T Edwards is a joiner in the 1881 Census. Might be what started George off in the trade?
regards
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Hi, Have you found William John Roberts on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site? If not, this could be him. Enter W J Roberts, rank, Private 13640, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, died 1915 it should come up on the first page. States he is son of Edward & Ann Roberts (could this be her correct name) Broad Oak Farm, Northop, Flint. Native of Bagillt. Grave memorial IE 9 in Browns Road Military Cemetery, France. Too many T. Roberts with no addresses to find him. Best wishes, Gwyn
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A bit more Info from Connah's Quay registers.
Baptism June 6 1867.
Charles s/o Edward & Elizabeth Foster. Abode, The Quay. fathers Occ B???maker.
Catherine d/o """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Burial.
Edward Foster. Abode, The Quay. July 9 1867. age 34.
Rachel Ann Parry. Wepre. April 14 1881. age 4 yrs(Elizabeth Alice's sister)
Cheshire bmd. Elizabeth Foster married John Parry. Holy Trinity 1870. CE12/3/173.
C/Q baptism
Born.May 23. Baptised July 11 1899.
Fanny Foster d/o George & Elizabeth Alice Edwards. Abode, Wepre Lodge.
Fathers Occ, Joiner.
Let me know If you would like a photo of Wepre Lodge It's just around the corner from me :)
Paul.
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A bit more Info from Connah's Quay registers.
Baptism June 6 1867.
Charles s/o Edward & Elizabeth Foster. Abode, The Quay. fathers Occ B???maker.
Catherine d/o """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Burial.
Edward Foster. Abode, The Quay. July 9 1867. age 34.
Rachel Ann Parry. Wepre. April 14 1881. age 4 yrs(Elizabeth Alice's sister)
Cheshire bmd. Elizabeth Foster married John Parry. Holy Trinity 1870. CE12/3/173.
C/Q baptism
Born.May 23. Baptised July 11 1899.
Fanny Foster d/o George & Elizabeth Alice Edwards. Abode, Wepre Lodge.
Fathers Occ, Joiner.
Let me know If you would like a photo of Wepre Lodge It's just around the corner from me :)
Paul.
Hi Paul,
Thank you for the information... What was Wepre Lodge? If its not too much trouble, I would love a photo of this place..
Did you happen to find when Elizabeth Alice died? I also wanted to ask you if you knew of an old sweet shop in High Street, Connah's Quay? On the 1911 census it says Elizabeth Alice was living in 85 High Street and it says she is a Green Grocer, but my Mother says she always thought she owned a sweet shop and Fanny Foster Edwards was born here?
Thanks again,
Shea
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Hello sheabear,
You might like to look at these for details on Wepre:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/shotton/history7.html
http://www.rhydymwyn-hendre.org/WeprePark.html
No photo of Wepre Lodge though I am afraid. It could have been part of the Wepre Hall estate.
I think that I have seen the service papers for William Roberts on the Ancestry database. Also, I recall that there were service papers for a Thomas Roberts from Northop there too.
Jo
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Hello, Jo is correct Wepre Lodge was part of Wepre Hall estate. The hall was demolished in the 60's.
Sometime next week I'll see if I can find Elizabeth Alice's burial & I'll have a look in the electoral rolls for who lived in 85 High Street.
Paul.
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Shea,
Pigot & Co's Directory of Berks, Bucks...Wales 1844 has one reference -
Howard, Colonel - Wepre Lodge
regards
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Did you happen to find when Elizabeth Alice died? I also wanted to ask you if you knew of an old sweet shop in High Street, Connah's Quay? On the 1911 census it says Elizabeth Alice was living in 85 High Street and it says she is a Green Grocer, but my Mother says she always thought she owned a sweet shop and Fanny Foster Edwards was born here?
Shea, Wales Trade Directory 1912
Fruiterer's and Greengrocers - Edwards Mrs E A, 85 High St, Connah's Quay
regards
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Hi hanes teulu,
Thanks very much for the information, I never knew this directory existed! My Mother is convinced it was a sweet shop, but it says on the 1911 Census Elizabeth Alice was a green grocer.. not sure where the sweet shop fits in!
Thanks again.
Shea. :D