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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: squiggle on Sunday 23 May 10 20:38 BST (UK)
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Hi All!
I have had some amazing help on RC in finding information about my colourful relative William James Jackman Jarvis b.1849.
I have received his divorce papers from 1887 and it appears that they were served on him in Millbank prison early in 1887. It appears that he was there at least from January 1887 until April 1887, and was in America in 1886 up until March, so I assume he was tried sometime between March 1886 and January 1887.
I would love to know what he went to prison for,...... I have looked at the oldbailey online records and at the National Archives where I found the record of the divorce but nothing fits there,...... can anyone give me an idea as to where else I might look!
Thank you in anticipation!
Becky
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Hi
From the beginning of the nineteenth century, government prisons were built run by the prison department of the Home Office. These prisons housed convicts. All prisoners given sentences of transportation (by 1887 this had long since finished) or a period of penal servitude- two years or more hard labour, were called convicts or government prisoners. All other gaoled offenders were prisoners not convicts. In 1853, there were twelve government prisons. Once sentenced a convict was sent first to Wakefield, Leicester, or Millbank and kept in solitary confinement.
Afterwards convicts would be sent on to complete their sentence in a prison such as Portland doing public works (hard labour).
Millbank by 1886 was being run down and had ceased to be used for convicts (in 1886) so if he was convicted after 1886 he was probably just a prisoner serving a relatively short sentence tried at the local quarter sessions. Prison registers overall have poorer survival rates. Millbank prison records are held at The National Archives but only up to 1877. They don't seem to have survived past that point. The prison closed in 1890.
The Old Bailey was one court (assize) in London. Quarter sessions were held in Middlesex (more often than quarterly), the City, Westminster and Surrey (as well as a separate assize court in the county). This system of assize (higher court trying usually the most serious cases) and quarter sessions courts was duplicated in every county.
The National Archives guide Looking for records of a prisoner:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/prisoners.htm?WT.lp=rg-3150
Regards
Valda
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You could try looking in local newspapers to see if there's any report of the trial etc.
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What was he doing in America before he came back and was tried?
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Hi Valda, Simon and Coombs,
Thank you for your interest. Valda- thank you for all the information on the organisation of prisons and the timings of when things changed. It looks like the time that William was in Millbank was beyond the timeframe for which records are available.
Thank you also for the link, I have had another go at finding some evidence of him but no success!
Simon, I have tried various ways of looking for newspaper reports but have had no success
William travelled to America under an assumed name "Lindsay" departing on the 18th December 1885. This information is contained in the divorce papers. I am guessing that he went there to set up a new life for himself, his mistress and their child, it seems that she followed him out there in March of 1886, set her up there and immediately returned to England. (maybe to sort out his divorce)
As I said before, he was in prison between Jan and April 1887. In May 1887 he was back in America where he married his mistress and seems to have lived the rest of his life over there.
I wonder...... whether he travelled under an assumed name in 1885 to avoid his wife finding out what he was up to, or was he avoiding the law? These questions have prompted me to try to find
out why he was in prison in 1887.
Thanks for looking in! Any ideas on how to proceed would be gratefully received,
All the best!
Becky
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Could he have been in prison over something to do with the divorce? Ie he tried to do something unlawful.
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I can't help but wonder if he tried to marry his "mistress" before he divorced his wife. It would certainly answer a few questions both about why he left under an assumed name, and why he was in prison. Although the two could, of course, be completely unconnected.
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Hi Coombs.
At first I thought maybe it was something to do with his divorce, but,... Here is my thinking!......
William's wife did not mention in her statement for the divorce, anything that William did after December 1885.
Which makes me think that whatever it was that he did, was not against her.
Unless, her family decided to have him arrested for something he had done previously.
(He had attacked her several times during their marriage, but back then, I wonder if what went on within a marriage was of any interest to the criminal courts)
What do you think?
Becky
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Hi Simon,
That's an interesting thought !..... William certainly married his mistress before his decree absolute came through. As he married in America I guess he thought he would easily get away with that!
You have set my mind working,.... would you be put in prison for attempting to get married twice, or would you have to do the deed.
Thanks for that, nothing would surprise me with William!
Becky
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He must have come home from America for some reason. I did think he was awaiting trial and returned to the UK for the trial but he may have returned from America and was then arrested and tried for something. Have you tried passenger lists. Incoming ones survive from 1878 but they are not infallible.
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Hi Coombs
I haven't got a subscription to A.......y, so I have to use the local library, I think I found what was probably my man travelling in 1885, but there were no details, so not proven.
In fairness to William,.... he was with his mistress sporadically between 1882 and 1887 then as his wife from 1887, definitely in the 1900 and 1910 census in America. It seems that his mistress turned out to be a more tolerable match., or a more tolerant one!
He did nip back to England in 1909, I would be interested to know why he did this then. I can't see any significant family events around this time.
As you say, he must have come back in 1886 for a reason,.... it was not for his mistress as she was already installed in America. (Unless it was her who pushed him into going back to sort out the divorce. If he was already "wanted" why would he have come back?
Unfortunately, what I do know about his travels, give no clues as to what landed him in prison.
Becky
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Hi
Beyond the time frame of the prison registers for Millbank prison but not beyond the time frame of the survival of other records such as prison calendars (see The National Archives research leaflet) and of course potential newspaper reports if the trial was interesting enough. These records with the exceptions of some newspapers are not online (most records still aren't).
The divorce papers definitely state he was incarcerated in Millbank, he wasn't just employed there?
If the divorce papers were served on him while he was in Millbank prison and it had anything to do with a conviction for bigamy then you would expect the divorce papers to mention it. The odds were stacked against a woman wanting a divorce - adultery alone was not enough. She would need to prove adultery and desertion or adultery and physical cruelty for instance. Conviction for bigamy would be extremely solid evidence for adultery and desertion. If you wanted the easiest of divorces that is what you would cite. Besides you state he married his mistress only after he finally left England for America in May 1887 and not before so after the divorce and the obtaining decree nisi but before gaining decree absolute. Since the marriage was in America and he never returned I doubt quite anyone really noticed or cared. You can only be convicted of bigamy if you have gone through with a marriage. The record of the marriage in the GRO index should still stand.
Regards
Valda
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Hi All,
Just wanted to say, that William did not even wait for his decree nisi, so technically he did marry his mistress bigamously, but after he had come out of prison and the divorce was under way.
I'm sure that he was a prisoner as he also refers to two letters that he received from his mistress in January and March 1887.
I will look again.... to see if I can find anything re. the prison calenders.... Thanks for that Valda!
Back to 1885......
William's wife was aware of his committing adultery with his mistress and gives the address at which it occurred, she says it was with "a person who's name is unknown to me"
Now..... if she gives the address, I can hardly believe that she did not know the name of his mistress or indeed that she and William had a nine month old child.
There were also four events mentioned in the divorce papers in the latter part of 1885
Oct 1885- struck her
Nov 1885-choked her and threatened her with scissors
Dec-1885-seized her by the throat,...same month seized her by throat and illused her.He left the country just a few days later
I get the feeling, that just enough was revealed to the courts to get the divorce through.
As I said I will see if I can find anything more and let you all know if I find anything, thanks again for everyone's interest
Becky
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I am amazed at the amount of immigrants who did make the occasional trip back to their homeland. My 3xgreat grandfather did in 1891 but I think I know why, his grandson was born. William Jarvis certainly liked his Atlantic hopping.
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Valda- I meant to say that the two letters he received from his mistress were while he was in Millbank prison........ he lodged these with Mr Urquhart his solicitor.
Coombs- I appreciate you lateral thinking, I have looked at the BMD records to see if I can find a "life event" that William came back for, but nothing so far.
I was stuck on William for a long time,... and now I have a lot of tantalizing information, which might help me fill in the gaps but I am not getting any further at the moment.
I have him in America in 1910, and his widow in 1920
I have information on his daughter and her husband.
I have information on his ex-wife and her children.
Lots more to find out
Thanks again for your interest
Becky
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Where in America was he in 1910?
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Hi Coombs,
Sorry for the late reply, I had no internet yesterday,.....
The family settled in the New york and then the New Jersey area. William died sometime between 1910 and 1920, but I have his wife and one of their daughters family, through to 1930 and a WWII registration card for the son in law for 1942.
All the best...Becky
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If his wife was still in New Jersey in 1920 then he must have died in that area inbetween 1910 and 1920. I am not sure about the coverage of New York death records for that time.
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Is this his baptism?
William James Jackman Jarvis baptised 21 October 1849, St Mary, Portsea, Hampshire, England son of William and Jane Jarvis?
Was he on the censuses as Jarvis or Lindsay?
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That is indeed him Coombs!
I have found him in all the censuses up to 1881 in England and 1910 in America. Not in 1890 in America, but I don't know if that is available. .....He is always registered as Jarvis. The only time I know that he used the name Lindsay was on the 1885 trip to America.
The divorce papers give a huge amount of information, including addresses they lived at between 1882 and 1887, (not covered by the censuses) and portray a very turbulent marriage, during which he was carrying on an affair with the woman he went on to marry.
His ex-wife ended up in Canada and I am slowly gathering information about their children, one of whom was also living out there.
I am slowly finding out bits and pieces about his second family.
I would like to find William's death at some point, but the thing that is really gripping me at the moment is wanting to find out why he was in prison.
I keep going back to the archives and trying Valda's suggestions but I am getting nowhere!
Thanks again for you continued interest!
Becky
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I have looked on a few sites but cannot seem to find a likely death. Unfortunately the 1890 census was destroyed and only about 6000 returns for people survive out of about 75 million.
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Where was living over here, what was his occupation, it might help to find something in the newspapers.
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Hi Coombs, thanks again for hunting for me. I have been trying to use ancestry at the library, free half hour when I get the chance, but the internet is v.....e.....r.......y sloooooooooow! and it feels like the time is over before I get anywhere. I may try their criminal records to see if there is anything there, when I next get the chance.
Wilcoxon- he was a teacher/private tutor in this country, and went on to work at a newspaper when he settled in New Jersey.
All the Best,
Becky
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Hi. You seem to know a lot about prisons so maybe you can help me. I have a convict ancesor who was convicted at The Old Bailey on 6.12.1827. He was imprisoned at Newgate. He was then delivered to the hulk York at Tipnor, Portsmouth on 20.1.1828. Then he was taken from the York on 10.11.1828. He was transported to Australia on the Lord Melville which departed London 5.1.1929.
My question is, what happened to him between leaving the York and boarding the Lord Melville ?
Do you think he was taken to the Gosport Prison and that the Lord Melville called at Portsmouth to pick up more prisoners before departing for Australia ?
Or is there some other reasonable possibility ?
Regards
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Hi Eustace,
You seem to be doing well so far......
It may be an idea to start a new thread for your query. It may get lost on the end of this one....
Good luck
Becky
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Hi Eustace
Welcome to Rootschat. Yes if you start a new thread on the relevant board you will get more chance of replies.
Ben
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Hi Becky and Ben
Thank you for the good advice. I have now posted a message under Portsmouth. I hope that is the best place.
Regards
Eustace
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Hi Becky
Have just started tracing the Jarvis family seriously, and came across your series of notes abt Wm Jas Jackn Jarvis.
I had wondered abt him because what I had found before seeing your notes puzzled/intrigued me (as it obviously did you).
Your findings are excellent and I realise that it was last year you were chatting abt him. Have you completed your research on him (and other members of his family)?
Would love to find out the culmination of your search.
Best wishes
Garry
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Hi Garry,
I am now intrigued,
How are you related to William James Jackman Jarvis? He was my great grandfather's cousin. Although we are also related through the Jackman line.
I have to go out to a family gathering today, but I hope I will have the chance to check in later.
I think that you need to make a couple more posts before I can send you a PM (personal message)
Hopefully I will have some information that will be of interest to you.
Becky
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Hi Becky,
Thank you very much for your quick response.
My wife is the gt gt g'dtr of John Jarvis - Wm Jas Jackn Jarvis' brother.
Thru Bernard Miall Jarvis and Bertha Jarvis.
I have only been researching the various branches of our families since earlier this year and it is very interesting how every so often someone a bit different comes up. It adds a little bit of colour to the tree. Where possible, I am trying to get a bit of an insight into the people's lives, where they came from, what they did, how they lived, etc. In our case, why they left England, how they fared in Aust.
In Wm Jas Jackn Jarvis, I can now understand why 3 of his children with Kathleen took their stepfather's name. Mabel, however, didn't which is interesting. Also she appears to have been living near her aunt Jane in '91, rather than near her mother. I may be reading something into that that isn't there though. From what I can find it appears Kathleen died in Br Columbia and Lindsay N went to Canada too, serving with the Canadian forces in WWI.
Searching from Aust, I have to rely mostly on what can be gleaned from online databases, ie Ancestry etc,, so any local UK search material is inaccessible. My wife's cousin in searching Eng records in Eng a few years ago, found a close rellie that no-one in Aust was aware of, altho the Eng family knew abt the Aust connection.
Please correct me if I am mistaken here or if I am breaching protocol.
Best wishes,
Garry
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Hi Garry,
It seems that you have quite a lot of information.
I have been unable to find William James Jackman Jarvis' death although it appears that he died between the 1910 and 1920 censuses. As his wife Annie is living with her daughter Ellen, who was married to Percy Waldron.
I have been unable to find out what happened to their daughter Jennie.
There is a birth of a son Harry William on 31 March 1893
and the death of a son Harry John on the 25 July 1893
Percy and Ellen had three children, but I would have to PM you those details as there is a chance that they are still living.
By the way... did you find Lindsay Morton's second marriage where he uses Jarvis as his last name?
I'm happy to share any information I have. Hope to hear from you soon.
Becky
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Hello Becky,
Thank you for the extra detail there.
At the moment I don't have access to non-Aust/British records so most American/Canadian info is new to my search. The limited amt of info from USA/Canada is from A....y teasers, which because of the uniqueness of the names, make them almost positive.
You have noted Wm's mistress as Annie - do you have a surname for her? My understanding from your notes would indicate that Wm and Annie married in USA. Was Ellen born in USA or England? From your notes Kathleen is aware of Ellen as a 9 mth old in her '87 petition for divorce, which would indicate Ellen's birth in USA in mid '86. Presumably then Ellen would have been registered under Annie's name? Or have I got dates mixed up here?
Your note abt Lindsay remarrying as Jarvis raises the issue of whether Kathleen jnr, Claude and Lindsay took the Morton name out of courtesy/were pressured to use that name, or were officially adopted by Wm Morton. And perhaps as time passed and they got the full story from both sides, they made their own decisions.
What is your conclusion re Harry William/Harry John - same child? My inclination is that we have seen a no. of that sort of name variation to assume same child.
Is it Percy W registering for service in 1942? He would presumably be in his 50's!
Thank you for the offer on later family details. For the moment, I will keep that in mind but probably should go PM for a few other matters if you like. The pic of Wm and Annie interests me.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Best wishes,
Garry
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Hi Garry,
Thanks for you PM contact. Will take this to PM and e-mail for details of possible living people and details of the close rellie!
Becky