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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Squirrel Nutkin on Thursday 20 May 10 21:44 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to get started on a branch of my family about which we know very little. However, we do know that somewhere along the line a Miss Ann Strickland gave birth to a son, possibly George, in the workhouse at Stroud. If this is the generation I think it was, then George's son was born in India in 1884. This might put George's birth around the 1850 mark, but I don't know. Sorry to be so vague with dates, but does anybody have access to workhouse records which might help?
Thanks.
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Apparently, 'very few local records survive'
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Stroud/Stroud.shtml
There is only one Strickland birth registered Stroud showing on FreeBmd
William George Strickland june qtr 1855 Stroud vol 6a pg 284
Haven't spotted him as yet in 1861, but in 1871 there's a possible George Strickland lodging in Box RG10/2638 folio 44 pg 9
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Thanks Osprey. I'd wondered about that 1871 entry too. As yet I have no way of verifying it. I'm thinking that Bmd entry is quite promising. Do i have to order the certificate to see more details - it seems a lot to fork out if it's not the right guy!
Nice to see pictures of the workhouse. The cotswold stone makes it look so idyllic - I wonder what it was like to live there though...
Thanks for your help.
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Yes, buying the cert is the only way of getting the details. You could get it from the local registrar and ask them only to issue if the mother is Ann or the birth is in the workhouse. You can email
stroud.roatgloucestershire.gov.uk
replacing at with @
As far as the workhouse goes, I wouldn't judge a book by its cover, Suspect you wouldn't go there unless you had to.
::)
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Thanks, I'll try that.
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You could email Gloucestershire Family History Society, they have indexed the Stroud births from the actual registers held by the registrar.
http://www.gfhs.org.uk/index.html
:)
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Thanks - I'll check that out.
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I have the birth certificate and it is him! Today is his 155th birthday! Thanks everyone for your help.
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Excellent! And Happy Birthday to George. ;D
Any clues to help you trace Ann?
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Not a sausage! I feel completely stumped! I can find no trace of either of them in 1861 CR, though I think the 1871 one you found is probably George. The birth certificate says nothing except that Ann lives at the workhouse, the father is not named.
By 1880 George was married in India - that's when his first (I think) son was born.
There are so many Ann Stricklands on the CRs and none of them that I can see obviously fit in with Stroud. I have emailed Glos archives to see if they have any helpful workhouse records - I think they have some minutes of Board of Guardian meetings or something - but am not hopeful.
Any ideas? Would an illegitimate workhouse inmate have been baptised do you think? He certainly had his kids baptised in India.
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Yes, very likely that he was baptised, if the mother was in the workhouse rather than just using the hospital there to give birth. The Creed registers record the denomination of the person being admitted. Guardians kept records of birth & baptisms as well.
I've had a look through the census of Stroud workhouse in 1861, neither of them there.
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He was baptised in Stroud as William George Strickland son of Ann Strickland on 14 Jun 1855. The record is on FamilySearch RecordSearch.
There may be more information in the original image but it doesn't look as if the father was named.....
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Thanks Osprey and AngelaR. I am thinking that if neither of them were in the workhouse in 1861 Ann is likely to still have been alive, my thinking being that otherwise George would still be there. I suppose a relative might have taken pity on him - what do you think?
Do you know where George would have been baptised? Was there a chapel attached to the workhouse, or would it have been the local parish church?
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As far as I'm aware, baptisms at that period would have taken place in the Parish Church - St Laurence. Unhelpfully, the familysearch entry just says Stroud ::)
You may be aware that the workhouse is now converted into private flats and calls itself 'Stone Manor'. I don't live very far away from it and certainly wouldn't want to live there. It's only in very favourable conditions that it doesn't look grim!
I'm not doing well finding George in the 1861 census, I have to say!
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I don't think he's in the Stroud workhouse anyway. I went through all the pages and no-one who seemed to match.
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The only Strickland I could find of the right sort of age was a George in Cheltenham, son of Richard. I would have suspected that he was actually the grandson and his mother had been the eldest daughter, except for the fact that the daughter Ann was aged 10 ::)
The only other solution I can come up with is that Ann married and that he's with her and his step father under the new name......
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Frustrating, isn't it?! In later life George certainly used the name Strickland. I scoured the workhouse in 1861 CR too, but no matter how hard I try, none of the names will fit! I wonder whether the bit of census they were on got damaged? Or I suppose people must have slipped throught the net sometimes?
Do you think it is worth trying St Laurence to see if their records provide anything useful?
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St Laurence will have the baptism, but I doubt if there will be any extra information beyond what family search has - 14 Jun 1855. In that set of records, there's only the one Strickland baptism.
I'm just about to go away on holiday, otherwise I'd check the St Laurence entry for you in my local library to see if there were any extra notes, but I shan't be able to for some weeks.
I would be surprised if Ann and George's stay in the workhouse was a very long one - I should imagine that Ann went in there to have the baby, as workhouses operated as general medical and support services for the poor. I think they just had to be somewhere else in 1861 but where is anyone's guess ::)
Did George's birth certificate give any more details about Ann, such as occupation?
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There's something fishy about that Strickland family in Cheltenham. Firstly little George was born in Cheltenham according to the census, but if he was, his birth wasn't registered. There is a blind stepdaughter, Ellen Cull - I can't find her for sure in 1851, but in 1841 she's with her mother Ann Cull and a brother and sister (presumably), Henry and Jane. I couldn't find a Cull/Strickland marriage either.
I wonder if George was actually Ellen's or Jane's son, and the family passed Ellen or Jane off as Ann Strickland at the workhouse :-\ As Angela points out, Ann Strickland was far too old to be Georges mother, even allowing for the fact that she ages about 12 years/decade and if she was his mother, why would his father's name be left off the birth cert?.
There are no Ann Strickland marriages or deaths in Glos between 1855 and 1861, that I can see...
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Hmm... lots of food for thought!
On the birth certificate, all it says about Ann is that she is resident at the workhouse.
With the Cheltenham family, is it unusual for births or marriages not to be registered?
All very mysterious!
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marriage registered Cirencester which covered Colesborne
Ann Cull june qtr 1843 vol 11 pg 312a with Richard Stickland the only other on the page
George is registered
George Stickland sept qtr 1854 Cheltenham vol 6a pg 339
Still with parents in 1871 and can be found in later census records living in Charlton Kings as Strickland
Ellen is in a 'Blind School' in Southwark in 1851 HO107/1565 folio 300 pg 62
So this looks to rule out the family.
::)
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That's pretty definite, Osprey - well done ;D
So where are they......? Squirrel Nutkin - do you know why George was in India? Could they already be there by 1861?
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Thanks for finding all that, Osprey. At least I can leave that family in peace!
With regard to India, I had understood from a relative that George went there with the Dunlop Rubber Company as a pattern maker. However, that theory has had a hole blown in it by the fact that Dunlop did not establish themselves out there until the 1920s! The only possible link with them at that period is that they were experimenting with growing rubber in the Botanic Gardens in Calcutta, a link which I am about to pursue.
In terms of when he went, I don't know, although I have always assumed it was as an adult. He certainly had a son in India in 1880. He was married to a lady called Harriet, but I can't find out any more about her at the moment. I think he met her in India, but I don't know that.
There is an entry in the 1871 CR which looks like George. He is lodging with a couple in Minchinhampton, and I think if I have read it right he was an unemployed stair dresser (what was one of those?! Perhaps it says stone dresser?)
But where, oh where is Ann?!
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I thought it said hair dresser? Compare the H in Head ?
Have you tried for records of the family in India?
http://www.fibis.org/
There are a couple of submitted births to George & Harriet on the IGI, but also an extracted marriage of a Harriet Strickland in 1890 in West Bengal to a John Thomas Perry.
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I see from another post that you have do have some info from India.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=457914.msg3192023;topicseen
The Harriet Strickland who married in 1890 was a widow. Her father is given as Charles Eagles. There is a possible baptism 17/10/1852 for a Harriet dau of Charles & Christiana, born 28/8/1851, in Saugor, Bengal.
These are on
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/
as well as baptisms of Vincent Norman & Cassily Lionel Strickland, Vincent's marriage, and children baptised to Vincent & Cassily.
Other children to Charles & Christiana include George, Jane & Thomas Casaly. I can aslo see a Henry Cazaley Eagles.
Too much of a coincidence?
::)
Just noticed Harriet was first married 29/9/1871 in Madras to William Cox. But haven't found her marriage to George as yet.
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Osprey - you are a star!! ;D ;D ;D Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
I have found 2 dozen new rellies, the star find being Wm George Strickland marrying Harriet Cox in 1875!! How about this: he puts his father's name as William Strickland! Is it true or was he telling porky pies? England was a long way away if anyone wanted to check up, and it seems surprising Ann didn't mention it if she was married/widowed.
Back to the census records, but first I really ought to pay my living rellies some attention, having been glued to the computer since lunchtime! Addictive, isn't it?!
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Excellent! So glad you've found the marriage. I've been having far too much fun playing with the Family Search Pilot and Fibis, but I hadn't noticed that marriage. It's really interesting that the Eagles seem to have been there for generations and possible the Elliotts (Christiana's family) too.
Probably better to give a name, any name, than leave a blank on the marriage. After all, who would know?
So George must die before 1890 when Harriet remarries., but can't see a record of his death as yet.
Charles Eagles was army, his death & burial in 1860 in Rangoon show him as staff sergeant. I wonder if George joined the army? Or did he go to India to join family? There are other Stricklands around......
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Nutkin,
Took some finding but I knew I'd made a note of it because it was unusual
In one of the films of Horsley records I've searched there was a handwritten table of baptisms entitled, Baptisms in the Work House of the Stroud Union situate in the Parish of Horsley in the year 1835(I think).
The vicar had also recorded the parish from which the parents came - Stroud, Rodborough, Minchin Hampton (sic), Bisley, Stone House and Avening.
I know this does not help you directly but perhaps a look at Horsley baptisms for later years might.
Regards
Chas
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Thanks Chas, that's helpful. How would I go about looking at Horsley baptism records? Does it require a visit to Stroud or is there another way of accessing the records?
Osprey - I have wondered about those other Stricklands, but I don't know how to make a link. I did find a worryingly late death record for a George Strickland of similar age, which would imply Harriet wasn't a widow after all, but I have satisfied myself that it is the other Geo Strickland who married Ellen Grimes. One less skeleton to worry about! ;D
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I've just revisited the 1871 CR, Osprey - I see what you mean about the H. How intriguing! Wonder if it was a skill he used once he got to India?!
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Well, you'd want short hair in that heat!
I've just had another look at the GRO Regimental records & I found birth regs for both sons, with more than one regiment mentioned in both.
Cassily L Strickland Delhi 1884 12th regiment vol 870 pg 4
16th regiment vol 934 pg 44
78th regiment vol 205 pg 47
Vincent N Strickland Dalhousie 1880 12th regiment vol 870 pg 2
78th regiment vol 205 pg 47
So definitely Army!
You can get copies of the certs from the GRO.
I'll have another for George's death. You would have thought that there might be more children in between the marriage in 1875 and the birth of Vincent.
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Nutkin,
At the pilot site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home you will find a William George Strickland birth details in Stroud.
No father's name means illigitimate so perhaps no wonder Ann might have ended up in the Union workhouse.
If you look at the details you will find a Source Film Number.
Have a look on the other forum folder for my message about ordering LDS films b ut if you cannot get to an LDS FHC do not bother.
Regards
Chas
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Thank you Chas.
Osprey - help! I'm confused! Knowing nothing about military matters, why would more than one regiment be mentioned?! Thanks for finding these references, by the way. It's good to be able to tie George down to a career!
Thanks so much for all your help. I'd be totally stuck if you hadn't spotted the Eagles link.
I do wonder whether those other Stricklands out there might be related. I need to go back and check where exactly they were.
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I've come across this before, but can't remember what the explanation is. A query on the armed forces board may help.
Didn't find a death for Wm Geo, but I did spot another couple of possible births given the regiments
Ralph O Strickland Fyzabad 1882 12th regiment vol 870 pg 3
78th regiment vol 205 pg 47
Rowland G Strickland Mian Mir 1887 78th regiment vol 205 pg 47
16th regiment vol 934 pg 44
12th regiment vol 870 pg 9
He might be the one who married as George Rowland Strickland in Nowshera in 1920 to Norah Mary Hall
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I am a member of this Strickland family! Vincent Norman Strickland was my grandfather (born Dalhousie, India, 1880). His three younger brothers were Clinton Ralph, Cassily Lionel and George Roland. All born in India. Vincent's parents were (William) George Strickland and Harriet Cox (Nee Eagles). Harriet was born at Saugor, Bengal. (William) George was born illegitimate at Stroud Union Workhouse in 1855. His mother was Ann Strickland who had been born in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire. I know a great deal about the more recent generations with the single exception of what happened to my great-uncle Cassily Strickland and his family and descendents! My grandfather Vincent's sons were John and Eugene. John was a distinguished Gurkha officer. My father was also distinguished and ended as a General. Please contact me, Squirrel Nutkin!
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Hello Old Mister Brown
Well, that's exciting! I'm afraid I am now a bit rusty on information having not looked into this for a few years. However, I can tell you that I am Cassily Lionel's great-granddaughter. He married Edith Beauchamp who had ended up working in India as a nurse. They moved to Burma - I think Cassily worked in the Post Office, but I'm not sure if that's right.They had four children: I am hesitating over which order they came in, but their names were Joan, Jean (my grandmother, they were twins), Paul and Ruth. Edith brought the children back to England without Cassily in 1927. I think he died when Japan invaded Burma, but again I'm not sure - family relations were not good, so information is a bit patchy, and my memory hazy! There are three of Cassily's grandchildren still living. I will let them know you have got in touch. Great to hear from you - thanks for posting!
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So many thanks, Squirrel Nutkin. We are most certainly on the same tree! I have a lot of information for you and I think that, between us, we ought to be able to post a detailed and more complete tree online. So where to begin? If I start with Ann Strickland at Cheltenham in Gloucestershire we can take things from there, and you can give me any snippets of info you have or have inherited. If you reply to this, I will then commence. Does that suit? Best wishes, Cousin Old Mister Brown.
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Welcome to Rootschat! ;D
So glad to see you've found each other. An interesting tree!
:D
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:) Thanks for your very kind thoughts. As soon as Squirrel Nutkin has replied to my last email I will begin the instalments of what I know of this Strickland Family. Old Mister Brown
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Dear Osprey and Squirrel Nutkin. See my latest message re the descendants of Ann Strickland of Stroud and Cheltenham workhouses. The elusive Ann, my great-great-grandmother, appears to have been born in Cheltenham in 1825, the daughter of John and Maria Strickland. Her illegitimate son, William George, was born in Cheltenham and baptized in Stroud. He joined the Army in 1872, went to India in 1873. He married Harriet Cox there in 1875. They had four sons: Vincent, Clinton, Cassily and George. They all were Indian Army. Vincent, my grandfather, died of wounds received near Arras, in May 1917 and is buried at Kensall Green Cemetery. He had two distinguished sons and three daughters. My father, his second son, became a Major-General and CMG, DSO, OBE, CStJ, MM and was given the Star of Jordan by King Hussein of Jordan. It is an amazing story.
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Hello,
I'm so delighted to find this thread. I'm also a descendant of the Elusive Ann and illegitimate George Strickland. I have a feeling that Old Mister Brown is my Uncle :-*
I've been spending the last few nights (up very late - so addictive) perusing the Findmypast database for not just the transcripts of baptisms and marriages but the actual beautiful contemporary records of the day. A bit more information is contained there as it lists the Witnesses to the marriages which has revealed some interesting snippets. Some names were certainly recycled down the generations quite a bit. I found Thomas Eagles (Army) and Harriet Eagles baptising their son Charles Eagles in India in 1826. Charles (Gunner 3rd Battalion) goes on to marry aged 21 to 15 year old Christiana Elliott in 1847. On their marriage certificate Christiana's father is called Farrier Elliott 8th XX? Cavalry but in her second marriage he is called George Elliott when I flicked back to her first marriage G Elliott is listed as a witness along with Thomas Eagles. That cross referencing seems to reinforce the family connection.
What was very useful was the fact you listed off all the children Charles and Christiana Eagles had, I don't know how to find Siblings. I had thought myself clever to notice that at Harriet Eagles first marriage to William Cox that Tho's Eagles is listed as Witness (her father died by "accidental drowning" in Rangoon in 1860. Christiana marries a year +2 weeks to a widower William Smorfitt) . Searching on Thomas Eagles brought up Thomas Casaly (only 1 s) Eagles born in 1848 in Saupor which is where Harriet was also born in 1851. Clearly the name Casaly was brought through the Eagles line somewhere. Was the original Harriet Eagles's maiden name Casaly?
But sneaky old George Strickland was marrying his Cougar Harriet (she gives herself the profession of Teacher in a school, this makes me assume she had no children to look after from her first marriage to Cox, is anyone able to confirm this?) and lists himself as being 23 years old in December 1875 when he married. He also gives his name as George William Strickland and has his father as William Strickland. This had me assuming he was born in 1852 which put me way off when I was searching the workhouse records and births in England. According to the details Old Mister Brown has he was born in 1855 which means he was only 20 getting married and came out to india when he was 17 years old. Are there any records to confirm this?
I've tried to find out about what was involved in enlisting in the Army at this period - apparently the Curtain reforms went through in the 1870's due to the disaster of the Crimean war. Family lore also had George Strickland as winning a scholarship to a grammer school.
I couldn't find any records of George's death either but he was gone by 1890 when Harriet marries for the 3rd time to Rev. Perry. Does anyone know if there was any children from this 3rd marriage?
Harriet and Christiana were clearly very resourceful women bringing up young families.
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Welcome to Rootschat! ;D
Old Mister Brown hasn't visited this site for a couple of months but should get notification of your reply and may revisit.
:D