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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: cromwell on Tuesday 18 May 10 08:38 BST (UK)
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Could anyone tell me if Victor Wallace(Wallis) Ward had any brothers or sisters other than Ronald Kelly Ward
His parents Peter Kelly Ward and Ester Jane lived at 138 Manchester St Oldham
Victor was born in 1881 and died in 1960 he left home at the age of 14 and never went back.
Ronald was born 1880
Elsie was born1877 but died a month later
Mabel Given was born 1884 and died in 1888
Was Mabel Gwendolyn Ward his sister ? as stated in a newspaper cutting on her wedding day the only daughter of Mr & Mrs Ward 6 Glenwood St Blackpool
The best man was her brother Victor Ward....Mabel married Harry Lindley of 119 Layton Rd Blackpool(the newspaper cutting has no date )
I know he had three sisters but cannot find out who they were
Would be gratefull for any help
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Hiya Cromwell on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk 1929
Harry Ratcliffe Hindley to Mabel Gwendoline Ward at St Marks church ,Blackpool BLACKPOOL E/1/37
on www.freebmd.org.uk
Victor Wallace Ward b mar qtr 1881 Oldham 8d 622
Mabel Gwendoline Ward b sep qtr 1884 Oldham 8d 602
on lancs bmd again
Victor Wallace Ward b 1881 Mothers maiden name KELLY
Mabel Gwendoline Ward b 1884 Mothers maiden name KELLY
Elsie Ward b 1877 Mothers maiden name Kelly
Ronald Kelly Ward b 1879 MMN KELLY
Peter Edward Ward married Esther Jane Kelly 1877 St Chads , Poulton Le Fylde reg Preston FJ/2/112
you had Peter Kelly Ward ???....I presume this was a spelling mistake....
they married in Mar qtr Jan Feb Mar 1877....allan
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Hi
Looking on the Lancashire BMD
Elsie 1877 Oldham Below Town, mother's maiden name Kelly
Ronald Kelly, 1879, O B T, mmn Kelly
Victor Wallace, 1881, O B T, mmn Kelly
Mabel Gwendoline, 1884, O B T , mmn Kelly
These are the only children showing with the same criteria as above.
On BMD Mabel Gwendoline born abt 1885 and died 1888, Oldham
Another Mabel Gwendoline born 1906 Fylde district, a mabel g ward married same district to harry Lyndley 1929. So I think it is the later Mabel who married Harry and maybe born a bit too late for Peter.
What do you think?
Evie
Sorry for the duplicate garstonite :-[
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Hi
Peter Edward Ward married Esther Jane Kelly 1877 Poulton-le-Fylde, St.Chad Preston from Lancashire BMD
Evie
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Yes Evie...I think you are right.......so do you think these are different families ?....one Oldham ...one Poulton...I think they are related because of the use of Christian names but we are talking a marriage in 1929...Victor would have been 48 as best man.....Allan ???
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Thanks All and yes Peter Kelly was a mistake should have read Peter Edward Ward
From the family bible
Peter Kelly born Ireland 1822 Died 1885
Ester Kelly born June 6th 1822 Ireland died 1875
Ester Jane Kelly born Jan 1st 1854 Green Acres Hill Oldham Lancashire
Peter Edward Ward born Jan 27th 1856 Blackpool
Peter Edward Ward and Ester Jane Kelly married Feb 13th 1877 Paulton Lancashire
Mabel Gwendolyn Ward got married at St Marks Church Layton
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Hi Both
The MMN of mabel 1906 was Havell so a different family. I am trying to see if there are any more Victor's born.
Evie
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Mmmm - very interesting
Victor Wallace ward 1904 Blackpool MMN Howell (a mistranscription on one record possibly)
Evie
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Even more interesting
Ronald Kelly Ward married Laura Howell 1903 Old Fylde Register Office or Registrar Attended Blackpool from Lancashire BMD. So it looks like Mabel and Victor were his children
Evie
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Victor Wallace Ward married Amelia Mary Byrne who was born in 1898
Victor died 1960 Amelia died 1900's ?
Ronald Kelly Ward was Victors brother as I have letters from them about the there father property ....to each other
Victor was an old soldier and devoted his life to the army and married after the Great war in 1920 and stayed in Birmingham
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A further clue I have is he sent some photographs home from Shewbo India
To a Mrs Ward 15 Devonshire Rd Blackpool Lancashire ...in 1909
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What is your opinion on what we have found for you?
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Evie, After sorting through another pile of letters I came across one dated 21st Nov 1928 from Ronald Kelly Ward to Victor and he says Mabel and Lauren send their kind regards so it looks like you have come up trumps
So thank you All .......and I am amazed at the speed you work
But if you can come up with anymore info I would be chuffed (that's if there is any more) ...Did Ronald and Lauren have children
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Another correction
Victor Wallace Ward died 18th Dec 1960 at 16 Harley Road Blackpool
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The only two children that I could see for Ronald and Laura were Mabel 1906 and Victor 1904.
Fiddling with the 1911 census index it seems that Ronald's parents are staying with them and the only others were Mabel and Victor. However if you have full access to this census you would be able to see if they had any children who may have died before the census was taken.
Evie
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Another correction
Victor Wallace Ward died 18th Dec 1960 at 16 Harley Road Blackpool
Mabel Given Joline Ward died June 4th 1888 at 43 Hartley St
The letter sent by Ronald gave his address as 6 Glenwood St Blackpool
and on re reading the newspaper cutting Mabel and Harry after the wedding will take up residence at 4 Glenwood Street so I am thinking now that Mabel was the daughter of Ronald and the newspaper has made mistakes as it give her mother and fathers address as 6 Glenwood St and the person the was Victor was Mabels brother not her Fathers Brother Victor Wallace Ward.........
So Evie with your help I have solved one riddle
So Thank You Again
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So all in all he had no brothers or sister other that Ronald Kelly
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Not sure if you have this but it looks like Ronald K Ward died 1849 aged 69 Blackpool 10b 583. Cannot pin Laura down though as I cannot see a death in Blackpool district
Evie
Just seen your post where did you get the name Mabel Given Joline Ward from - are you sure it is not a mistranscription of Mabel Gwendoline? yes I agree the Mabel that married in 1929 was the daughter of Ronald and the best man was her brother Victor Wallace who was born 1904 and not her uncle Victor wallace born 1881.
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So all in all he had no brothers or sister other that Ronald Kelly
I am confused - who do you mean?
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So all in all he had no brothers or sister other that Ronald Kelly
I am confused - who do you mean?
Ronald Kelly Ward was his only brother in the family bible it says he was born in 1879 at 137 Manchester St the same house as Victor Wallace Ward born 1881
Ronald Kelly Ward married Laura and had two children Victor Wallace Ward and Mabel Gwendoline they lived with their parents Peter Edward and Ester Jane at 15 Devonshire Rd in 1911
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Hi
Looks like Victor Wallace only had a surviving brother Ronald Kelly as you rightly said.
I couldn't find Elsie on the usual BMD but there was an Essie who was born 1877 Oldham and again it came up with Essie again as having died 1877, Oldham.
So I wonder if her name was Essie or Elsie?
I am pleased you are sorted. if you need anything else just ask.
Evie
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Evie, From an Undertakers bill to Mr V.W.Ward 29 Claremount Rd Seaforth Liverpool dated April 11th 1934 it states for the funeral Arrangements of the late Joan Marjorie Ward (she must have been about 3) etc...etc
to a new private grave at SS Peter and Paul's, Crosby
Victor Wallace Ward 1881-1960 was interred there as was his wife Amelia Mary Ward 1898 - ? so it seems they had a family plot they had an daughter who came to live in Birmingham and she died in 1999 and was buried at the same place in the family plot
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Hi
Looks like Victor Wallace only had a surviving brother Ronald Kelly as you rightly said.
I couldn't find Elsie on the usual BMD but there was an Essie who was born 1877 Oldham and again it came up with Essie again as having died 1877, Oldham.
So I wonder if her name was Essie or Elsie?
I am pleased you are sorted. if you need anything else just ask.
Evie
Well done Evie....the birth of Elsie is on lancsbmd but not her death.....allan ;)
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Thanks Allan :)
Fortunately the names of these Wards were unusual - not like mine ::)
Evie
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Update
I have been in touch with the relatives of Amelia Mary Ward formerly Byrne
but as of yet not been in touch with the Ward family but hope to within the next few days (fingers crossed )
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Thanks for the update :)
Good luck cromwell
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Cromwell
Am new to rootschat - I joined as I found your old postings on Victor and was pleased to see the information - I can tell you he was in the Royal Welch Fusiliers in Agra in 1907 ( sergeant). In 1910 he was in Shwebo in Burma which fits in with the information you have. Did you say you had some photographs of Shwebo from that time would love to see them
I am keen to find a photo of him if anyone has one and if there any living relatives would like to make contact.
Victor was a freemason and was the first joining member of Lodge Ormond -Iles 3343 which had just been founded in Shewbo.
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Thanks for the reply Chinthe, and yes I have over 20 photographs of Victor Ward in China, India, Burma, Litherland etc over 160 of India and Burma
You need to get in touch if you are related in any way so send me a PM
Regards
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Cromwell
Not sure how to do a PM but have seen I need to send a few more messages so may take some time to get hold of you.
I am not related to the Ward family but as you will guess am writng a Masonic history which involves Victors Lodge - he of course gets a mention along with the others from the regiment who founded the lodge in those early days, adding his date of birth and death adds substance of course and I would love to add his photo. I will hopefully post a couple of other messages to see if rootschat can help with with other bits of research and this will hopefully enable me to send you e PM
many thanks
Chinthe
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Well sent you my email address by PM
regards
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Hi Cromwell
Would you be ok to give me your email address? My partner's great grandfather was Ronald Kelly Ward, and so this thread is very interesting! I realise this is a while after the original postings, but hope we can get in contact.
Regards