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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: queenie3 on Tuesday 18 May 10 07:50 BST (UK)
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My ancestor Thorkel Hansen immigrated to New Zealand about 1875 from Jels,North Schlweg in what was Germany but is probably Denmark now.
I am trying to get his birth details - I think his year of birth was either 1846 or 1847.
His mothers name was Marian [?] and his father Hans Thorkilsen.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as the distance between New Zealand where I am and Denmark makes investigating family history a bit difficult.
Many thanks in hope that a kind soul may be able to help me.
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In the old censuses etc. you'll find Jels parish in Gram district, Haderslev county.
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp
- there's a Hans Terkelsen there in 1845 (aged 40), with a wife Mette Marie Olling and three children who use the surname Skyt(t).
http://www.arkivalieronline.dk/English/default.aspx
- you will find his baptism here in Jels. If you select the 1826-1856 records:
after signing up
Søg i kirkebøger "search in church registers"
Amt: Haderslev
Herred: Gram
Sogn: Jels
Opslag (page?) 136 in the 1826-1856 book, last record. Think it says b. 22 Jun (1846), chrs. 26 July
Torkel Hansen Skytt, legitimate son of Hans Torkelsen and Mette Marie Olling, Gronnebeks.
There are three witnesses/sponsors, I think the second is "Jans Olling" who might be the grandfather or an uncle.
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Thank you very much Jorose.
I tried to annexe the archive records from the link you provided but the language didn't default to English and I am hoping that I have filled in the appropriate information for registration.
Out of curiosity - why would the children of Hans Torkilson have a completely unrelated surname - Skytt?
I don't understand the naming customs of Denmark.
Again thanks very much and I will persevere with registration in order to get other information.
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That`s very impressive Jorose....would you by any chance be adept in Heligoland babtisms....please say yes...lol allan :)
(just in case...Carl Freidrich Sacht b 1846 Heligoland.... Heligoland was British at the time..off the coast of Denmark but .is now German )
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Sorry, Garston, I don't think any Heligoland records are on the Danish archive site.
For Queenie:
http://dgmweb.net/Ancillary/OnE/Patronymics.shtml
In 1526, surnames became mandatory in Denmark only for the nobility. In 1771, surnames became mandatory in Slesvig-Holsten. In 1828, surnames became mandatory throughout Denmark, but the law was largely ignored. Then, in 1856, the legal mandate to use a surname was strengthened forcing the holdouts to give in and finally adopt a surname, making Danes among the last in Europe to adopt surnames.
Probably the kids would all be called (firstname) Hansen/Hansdatter Skytt.
In the 1834 census I think they're in Haderslev, Frøs, Skodborg
Hans Terkelsen, 33, Mette Marie, his wife, and a Laus Aalling ("Olling"?)
Still there in 1840, Hans Therkildsen, 36, Mette Matia Allum, and two kids (using Therkildsen as a surname).
The marriage will presumably be found in Skodborg (or possibly Jels)
I found the instructions in English (although the main site has to be used in Danish, I think):
http://utilis.dk/ressourcer/ao_english_instructions.pdf
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Adding:
found the marriage in Skodborg (1819-1850 records, Opslag 331)
4 July 1833
Hans Terkelsen, legitimate son of afd. (think this is short for afdød, deceased) Terkel Paulsen and afd. Kjesten Chrestensdatter, from E?rup Mark (?? not sure on place name, maybe Ejstrup?) and
Mette Maria Olling, legitimate daughter of (can't read occupation) Jotham Olling and Anna, born Møller of Over Jels ("Upper" Jels)
groom (?? - think "vaccinated" - smallpox vaccination dates were often recorded) - "Hansen i Ribe", 30 Nov 1813
bride "S?huma*her", 30 August 1814.
Looking at www.familysearch.org I think that Hans parents are the couple who married in "Malt, Ribe" in 1804.
In the Danish censuses there is a Terkel Poulsen residing at Estrupgård in Malt in 1801, aged 35, unmarried.
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Thank you very much for this information. I manage to get very confused with the language and the many and varied versions of last names so your help in this regard is very appreciated.
Could you tell me please what are the names of the children listed in the 1840 census? These would be the brothers or sisters of my ancestor Thorkil Hansen - as he wasn't born until 1846- and I am curious to see whether he named any of his own five children after his siblings. He did name one of his daughters after his mother Mette Marie - so perhaps that is a custom?
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Hi Queenie,
If you look here, you can get the census record database in English (although the answers returned are in Danish);
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp
for 1840, choose "county" (or "amt") "Haderslev", and put Hans Therkildsen in as the name. Then select "show household" to see everyone.
the children shown in 1840 are Hans (obviously after his father), and Jockum (presumably after Mette's father)
for 1845, the same but "Hans Terkelsen" is the name (you can narrow it down by specifying the census year towards the bottom of the search form)
the children shown in 1845 are Hans, Jochum, and Andreas
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Thank you very much Jorose.
I had tried to annexe this link but unfortunately I can't find any information. I asked a friend who is more computer literate than I am to see if they could succeed where I have failed but they couldn't either.At no time in any requests for information using the handy hints that you gave me have we been able to find anyone called Hans Terkelson, Hans Thorkildsen, Hans Thorkelsen or any other variants of the name in any census year.
Strange...and frustrating as well.I am not sure what the problem is.
But you have helped a lot and I am very grateful.
At least I know of three siblings of Thorkel - it is more information than I have had previously!
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Mit navn, er Max Skytt.
Du søger efter slægtninge efter Hans Terkelsen, og hustru Mette Marie, født Olling.
Jeg har nogle oplysninger, om en bror til din slægtning !
Andreas Skytt Hansen, født den 13. november 1840, af
ovennævnte forældre. Se. Haderslev Amt, Skodborg sogn 1819 - 1850 opslag 157.
Andreas Skytt Hansen, var gift 2 gange, først med Ane Dorthea Hansdatter. og herefter med min bedstemor
Mikkeline Katrine Pedersen født den 26. januar 1888.
Ane Dorthea Hansdatter døde den 27. februar 1915 - Han blev viet til min bedstemor den 12. august 1915.
Andreas Hansen Skytt, og min bedstemor, havde et fællesbarn. Andrea Dorthea Skytt. født den 3. juni 1917 - død den 24. maj 1920
Moderens alder: 29 år - Faderns alder 77 år.
Andreas Skytt Hansen døde 26. december 1928, og er begravet på Gjesten sogns kirkegård
Mvh. Max Skytt
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:-[
Hi Max
Thank you very much.
I don't have any Danish language skills but have attempted to use a Danish - English translation tool so that I can understand most of the information that you have kindly sent to me.
If Andreas married your grandmother Mikkeline and they had only one child Andrea born June 3, 1917 - died May 24 1920 then can you please explain who your parents are? You have the surname - Skytt - which would indicate that there was another child of Andreas and Mikkelines' marriage who was your father?
I am confused - sorry - perhaps you can also clarify the age difference between Andreas [77] and Mikkeline [29] which seems unusual. What was Andreas's occupation?
Was there any children of the first marriage between Andreas and Ane Dorthea Hansdatter?
Regards
Queenie
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Hello!
Andreas Hansen Skyt, were married on 12 August with Anna Dorthea Hansdatter Lund,
In marriage were born 3 children.
1. Hans Hansen Skyt, born on 17 July 1874
2. Mette Marie Skytt, born 12 February 1878
3. Kirstine Marie Skytt, born on 10 March 1883
Hans Hansen Skyt were married on 27 August 1898, Gjesten church with Kristine Marie Petersen born Gjørding January 27, 1872.
In marriage were born 4 children.
1. Kristiane Dorthea Skyt, born on 31 May 1899
2. Andrea Marie Skyt, born on 2 May 1901
3. Eskild Kristian Hansen Skyt, born 19 May 1903
4. Hans Hansen Skyt, born on 27 May 1909
My grandmother came to Andreas Hansen Skyt, as domestic servants, after his
first wife's death. he was probably a little warm on this young woman, too short
time after they were married. , 12 August 1915
Mikkeline had 3 children when she arrived, namely
Eli Karl Pedersen, born March 29, 1911
Christian Pedersen, born February 25, 1913 (that's my dad)
Nilsine Andrea Pedersen, born January 15, 1915
I think the reason I and my brother was named Skytt, lies in
that my father really appreciated the Andreas Hansen Skyt and my dad told
me many things, from the time when they lived together.
Andreas was in the war 1864, where he was wounded France
Hans position was smallholder Gjesten.
Mvh. Max Skytt
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Hi Queenie 3
Thorkel Hansen was my Great Grand father and I am researching him also. Thorkel married one Alice Nottingham on October 4th 1881 and lived in the settlement of Kumeroa, near Woodville and Dannevirke in the tauarua ranges in the North Island of New Zealand. I am in fact going to Kumeroa this Easter to see if I can discover more. Thorkel became a New Zealand citizen on the 24th August 1885 I think it was. I have copies of his Citizenship and his marriage Certificate to Alice. His parents names were Hans Thorkelsen and Marian Alling. (At least I think it is Alling. 130 year old writing to hard to decipher at times.
I do hope you get this soon because I think we will be able to assist one another. I can see hours of fun just in your posts already.
Regards,
Al-Pal
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:)
Hi Al Pal
Thorkel is a mystery man - he seems to have disappeared and I can't find a death certificate for him. I am very interested in your family link - my link is via Alice Christina Hansen - married name Kenward - daughter of Alice and Thorkel - any info gratelfully received!
Do you want to remove this communication from the public arena? Let me know as I prefer private messages.
Cheers
Queenie
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??? ???
Jorose,
I don't understand a split topic,?where do i now find my request?
:P :P ??
Regards,
Carl.
:'( :'(
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::) ::) ::) ::)Sorry every one, I paniced, have now found it. ::) ::)
Carl.
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Hello!
Andreas Hansen Skyt, were married on 12 August with Anna Dorthea Hansdatter Lund,
In marriage were born 3 children.
1. Hans Hansen Skyt, born on 17 July 1874
2. Mette Marie Skytt, born 12 February 1878
3. Kirstine Marie Skytt, born on 10 March 1883
Hans Hansen Skyt were married on 27 August 1898, Gjesten church with Kristine Marie Petersen born Gjørding January 27, 1872.
In marriage were born 4 children.
1. Kristiane Dorthea Skyt, born on 31 May 1899
2. Andrea Marie Skyt, born on 2 May 1901
3. Eskild Kristian Hansen Skyt, born 19 May 1903
4. Hans Hansen Skyt, born on 27 May 1909
My grandmother came to Andreas Hansen Skyt, as domestic servants, after his
first wife's death. he was probably a little warm on this young woman, too short
time after they were married. , 12 August 1915
Mikkeline had 3 children when she arrived, namely
Eli Karl Pedersen, born March 29, 1911
Christian Pedersen, born February 25, 1913 (that's my dad)
Nilsine Andrea Pedersen, born January 15, 1915
I think the reason I and my brother was named Skytt, lies in
that my father really appreciated the Andreas Hansen Skyt and my dad told
me many things, from the time when they lived together.
Andreas was in the war 1864, where he was wounded France
Hans position was smallholder Gjesten.
Mvh. Max Skytt
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I am Thorkil Hansen Skytt's great grandaughter. I live in Melbourne Australia and I was born in Wanganui NZ. My great grandmother Alice Nottingham married Thorkil and had 5 children with him. My grandfather William Henry Hansen,their eldest son, was born in1882 and died in 1944. Thorkil had a serious drinking problem and Alice left him and had a daughter Ellen with Frank Salmon. Ellen married Lou Hopkins and lived in Akaroa NZ to the great age of 102. In her later years Alice lived with Ellen until she died in 1950 at 85. The story of Thorkil and Alice is a sad one as the three girls spent time in state care; Mette, Alice Christina and Sarah Ann. When I was young I met a son of Hans Thorkilsen, Thorkil's other son. He represented NZ in wrestling in the 1956 Olympics. I had no contact with Thorkil and Alice's daughters or Hans Thorkilson but Ellen was always in contact with our family and I saw her last when she was 100. She was a very special person. Thank you for information about our Danish heritage.
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Hi Lorraine Thanks for the contact. I have heard in the past from Allyn [your brother I think?] and am always searching for all the missing information from the Hansen family. Are there any old photos from your side of the family?
We know Ellen - Auntie Nellie- she was unique and like you say very special. We visited her in Akaroa many years ago and she was a a mine of information but there is such a lot we will never know. I had found out about the children being at Industrial Schools. Granny [Alice Christina] never spoke of it.
I am very interested as you can see from my research about the history of Thorkil so if it gives you a little more 'back ground' then that is a good thing. Do you want to email me in a private capacity? I can add nothing new at this point so I am unsure about maintaining this old thread.Regards
Queenie