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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: rawdinae on Monday 17 May 10 15:15 BST (UK)
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Having problems locating a William Giltrap - Teacher who was married to Annie Evans they had a son Henry Giltrap 1836 Dublin
Would appreciate any help.
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not sure what information you already have ... do you have a later census or other listing for William and family ?
Some Dublin city and county parish records are available on http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/ (more due to be added shortly). I see a few Giltrap records listed in Dublin - but nothing that seems to fit with the family you mention..
Shane
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William Giltrap on the Griffiths valuation.
GILTRA WILLIAM CARPENTER SAMUEL B. DUBLIN ST LUKE NEW ROW (PODDLE) #42
GILTRAP WILLIAM YEATES SUSANNA M. KILDARE CASTLEDERMOT CASTLEDERMOT
1851 Dublin Census you have a Giltraps below.
Wm. Giltrap 39 New Row South St. Luke's South
Hy. Giltrap 7 Crighton St. St. Mark's South
Mary Giltrap 22 Whitefrier St. St. Peter's South
Jas. Giltrap 3 Newcomen Court St. Thomas's North
Slaters Directories
GILTRAP WILLIAM KILDARE CASTLE DERMOT Slater's 1894 (Butcher)
GILTRAP WILLIAM KING'S FRANKFORD Slater's 1881
GILTRAP WILLIAM KING'S KINNITTY Slater's 1894
GILTRAP HENRY WESTMEATH TYRRELL'S PASS Slater's 1894
GILTRAP ANNA LOUTH KILSARAN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP EMILY WESTMEATH TYRRELL'S PASS Slater's 1894
GILTRAP GEORGE KILDARE RATHMORE Slater's 1894
GILTRAP HELEN DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1881
GILTRAP HELEN DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1881
GILTRAP HENRY WESTMEATH TYRRELL'S PASS Slater's 1894
GILTRAP J DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP J DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP JAMES DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1881
GILTRAP JAMES DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1881
GILTRAP JAMES DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP JAMES DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP JOHN DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP JOHN DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP JOHN DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1870
GILTRAP RICHARD KILDARE TIPPERKEVIN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP S DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1870
GILTRAP S DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1870
GILTRAP SAML Slater's 1894
GILTRAP SAMUEL Slater's 1894
GILTRAP SAMUEL Slater's 1894
GILTRAP SAMUEL Slater's 1894
GILTRAP SAMUEL Slater's 1894
GILTRAP SAMUEL DUBLIN LUCAN Slater's 1894
GILTRAP SARAH DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1881
GILTRAP SARAH DUBLIN DUBLIN Slater's 1881
Ann Marie
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Thanks for responding to my post.
What I know this family is
William Giltrap (Teacher) married Annie Evans
Child - Henry Giltrap born abt 1836 married Deborah Harper born abt. 1834, April 16, 1854 (precise location unknown)
Children - Annie M Giltrap abt. 1862 in Dublin
Fanny Giltrap abt. 1863 in Dublin
Elizabeth Giltrap born November 4, 1864 Dublin
Deborah Giltrap born August 5, 1867 Dublin
Emily Ellen Giltrap born February 27, 1869 Dublin
The family moved to Paisley in Scotland where Henry worked as a waiter he died there in 1916 with his wife Deborah dieing 1918
I guess Henry may not have been born in Dublin himself but any leads would be greatly appreciated.
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Do you know when the family moved to Scotland (did William and Annie move also...) ?
It might be an idea to check for the family on the 1901 census returns in Scotland and Ireland (due online next month), as that should give you places of birth for them, which may help your further search.
For the earlier baptisms, and the marriage (if that was in Dublin) it might be worth keeping an eye on the IriishGenealogy website mentioned earlier, as they are planning to add further records for Dubln city & county in the next few weeks.
p.s. do you have birth certs for any of the children ? These would give an address which, along with their religion, could help figure out the correct parish to check for further records.
Shane
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From Familysearch.org
Henry Giltrap m Deborah Harper on 06 May 1856 in St Peter, Dublin,
Father of groom was John Giltrap
Father of bride was William Harper
Siobhan
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....
- Henry Giltrap born abt 1836 married Deborah Harper born abt. 1834, April 16, 1854 (precise location unknown)
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I found a possible cross-match for the marriage on the Civil Index...
Name: Henry Giltrap
Registration District: Dublin South
Event Type: Marriage
Year: 1856
Volume : 5 / Page : 307
Name: Deborah Harper
[same index details]
You can order a marriage cert using the above reference, which would give more details of location of marriage, father's names, occupations, residences at the time of marriage etc
Shane
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sorry Siobhan ... I didnt get a red warning that you were posting at the same time as me!
Shane
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No problem Shane, you've added a few more details for rawdinae which is great.
Siobhan
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Hi all, new to this, so please excuse mistakes,
found this when doing a search on william giltrap, who died 1919 age 74? married to isabella wilson, obviously not the same person, but his granfather was also william giltrap and his g gf also william giltrap, my g g g g gf.
elverstown, blessington. just wondering if there is any connection.
Dermott
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Hi all, new to this, so please excuse mistakes,
found this when doing a search on william giltrap, who died 1919 age 74? married to isabella wilson, obviously not the same person, but his granfather was also william giltrap and his g gf also william giltrap, my g g g g gf.
elverstown, blessington. just wondering if there is any connection.
Dermott
I have a William Giltrap from Blessington born about 1800 with a son Henry Giltrap born about 1825. All I know is that he was a publican.
Do you have anymore info on you William around this time frame?
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Hi Rob,
since I first posted, I have gathered up a fair bit on the giltraps of west wicklow. there is/was a pub called giltraps in kinnity, and there may have been a shop/pub? on n81 past hollywood or maybe on the old road south, ( new?! toll road started early 1800s )
William, Henry, Robert and Richard are commonly recurring names in the giltraps.
There is only one family of giltraps in the area (glashina) now, in the 1800s there were maybe 10+ households.
If you had a townsland associated with your family, it would help, like burgage, humprystown, hollywood, mulicagh, rathattan, merganstown.
Not sure how to do it, but if you could contact me directly, i could share more info.
D
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Not sure how to send you a contact directly so here's my email...
(*)
Henry Giltrap was born in Mullycagh, Wicklow and is my gr gr grandfather
Some of the details are here...
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/rgiltrap/WilliamGiltrap.rtf
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Shaw's Directory of 1850 has
Giltrap
Henry, 20 Upper Erne St (occup. not listed - appears as W. Henry Giltrap in the street listing)
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third post ;-)
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I have a John Giltrap, son of Henry Giltrap, who married Anna Louisa Levinge on November 14, 1881 at St Catherine's Parish Church, Thomas Street. Witnesses - Richard Peel and Margaret Giltrap. John was a batchelor stone carver of 25 Arnott Street, Dublin. Henry Giltrap was a caretaker.
John Giltrap died before 1888 as Louisa married George Cheevers that year.
Hope this helps! :)
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Thanks for responding to my post.
What I know this family is
William Giltrap (Teacher) married Annie Evans
Child - Henry Giltrap born abt 1836 married Deborah Harper born abt. 1834, April 16, 1854 (precise location unknown)
Children - Annie M Giltrap abt. 1862 in Dublin
Fanny Giltrap abt. 1863 in Dublin
Elizabeth Giltrap born November 4, 1864 Dublin
Deborah Giltrap born August 5, 1867 Dublin
Emily Ellen Giltrap born February 27, 1869 Dublin
The family moved to Paisley in Scotland where Henry worked as a waiter he died there in 1916 with his wife Deborah dieing 1918
I guess Henry may not have been born in Dublin himself but any leads would be greatly appreciated.
I have made little progress since I posted this
Church Records list marriage:
Henry Giltrap (Servant) son of John Giltrap (School Master) M 6th May 1856 @ St Peter Deborah Harper Dau of William Harper ( Shoemaker )
Witness was an Eliza Giltrap
Both listed as staying at 17 Great Longford St, Dublin
I believe this to be a match and believe my previous marriage date ( However henrys father named John doesnt sit right at the moment - see note later )
Also found a son Born to the above couple - William Giltrap 23rd 1859 Bap 20th Nov 1859 St Peter and buried 22nd Nov 1859 aged 6months - presumeably after illness.
Family listed as staying at 19 Whitefriar St Dublin
Henry and Deborah Giltrap with 5 children appear on the 1881 Census in Paisley Scotland therefore left Dublin between 1869 and 1881 as all children are listed as born in Ireland youngest being born 1869.
Henry died in 1916 Paisley his Father listed as William Giltrap ( School Teacher ) possible name change ? and Annie Evans
Deborah died 1918 Paisley her father listed as William Harper ( Shoemaker ) and Mavis Davis
- Been looking for ship records to no avail (Realise they are rare as considered free movement accross UK)
- Did search on 1851 Census and see there dont appear to be any in Dublin listed at that time?
Any help would be appreciated
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In this topic so far, my feelers can't sense what information (especially names and locations) is sound and what information is anecdote/lore/conjecture and therefore potentially wrong. For example, shanew147 previously posted "not sure what information you already have ... do you have a later census or other listing for William and family ?" and the response was to say that "What I know..."... But how do you know, what is the basis or derivation of your information?
In the absence of potentially unreliable information, is there a possibility that Deborah Harper have been a.k.a. Margaret? I ask that because, notwithstanding the previously posted Dublin 1856 marriage of Henry Giltrap to Deborah Harper, on 11 September 1854, the Registrar of Ballina Registry Office (County Mayo, nowhere near Dublin), registered a marriage of a Henry Gilltrap to Margaret Harper from Enniscrone, both were servants, unmarried (bachelor/spinster), his father was recorded as John Gilltrap, a teacher, hers as William Harper, a shoe maker, Andrew Mosgrove and Harriet Mooney witnessed, it was a protestant church marriage.
So is this just a co-incidence? Maybe. But can you provide a bit more background to the basis of your information, for example, how do you know (what evidence do you have) that William (or John) Giltrap married an Annie Evans, for example?
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So is this just a co-incidence? Maybe. But can you provide a bit more background to the basis of your information, for example, how do you know (what evidence do you have) that William (or John) Giltrap married an Annie Evans, for example?
Hi Gaffy
Thanks for looking at my post:
Working back the way, I am looking at the family of a Henry Giltrap and Deborah Harper as previously stated they first appear on the 1881 Census in Paisley with 5 Children all girls Annie M. 1862; Fanny 1864; Elizabeth 1864; Deborah 1867 and Emily Ellen 1869 all born Ireland.
Statutory Death Records:
Henry Giltrap died in Paisley 20th Apr 1916 aged 80 Parents listed as William Giltrap (School Teacher) and Annie Evans
Deborah Harper died in Pasley9th August 1918 aged 84 parents listed as William Harper ( Shoemaker) and Mavis Davis.
Church Records - Irishgenealogy.ie
Henry Giltrap - Servant Marriage to Deborah Harper 6th May 1856 both of 17 Great Longford St. Parents John Giltrap - Schoolmaster and William Harper - Shoemaker
Witnesses Eliza Giltrap and William Lester
Baptisms:
William Giltrap Birth 23rd May 1859 St Peter Parents Henry and Deborah Giltrap 19 Whitefriar St (later died aged 6months) Fathers Occupation Servant
Elizabeth Giltrap 4th Nov 1864 St Mary - Parents Henry and Deborah Giltrap 79 Dorset St
Family Search.Org
Annie M Giltrap Abt 1862 - Birth not found - on census Scotland
Fanny Giltrap Abt 1862 - Birth not found - on census Scotland
Elizabeth Giltrap Birth 4th november 1864 Dublin - Parents Henry Giltrap and Deborah Harper
Deborah Giltrap 5th August 1867 Dublin - Parents Henry Giltrap and Deborah Harper
Emily Ellen Giltrap Birth 27th February 1869 Dublin - Parents Henry Giltrap and Deborah Harper
All points to correct records in Ireland however John / William ??
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I'm still reeling at the co-incidence of the 1854 County Mayo marriage, given the groom's name, the bride's surname, their occupations and fathers' names and occupations, but co-incidence it remains at this point, for I can see nothing more than that.
If the only source for Henry's father being called William is what an informant provided at the time of his death, then I would be open minded about that, for such information can be notoriously inaccurate and besides that, there is always the possibility the father was William John or John William.
The surname Giltrap isn't common in the all Ireland context but the small numbers overall are not widely dispersed, when you look at Griffiths Valuation and the 1901 and 1911 census returns, besides odds and sods the majority are clustered in counties Carlow, Wicklow and Kildare, with some spread into Wexford and Dublin, the latter probably for economic / work reasons.
Very slim pickings from me, but just to note a couple of marriages where the father of the bride or groom was recorded as John Giltrap, a teacher (can't see any for a teacher father called William Giltrap). As it happens, they occurred in County Wicklow.
Firstly, Thomas Giltrap, a teacher (son of John Giltrap, a teacher), married Mary A. Giltrap in the Church of Ireland on 30 November 1863, both were from Mullica / Mullycagh, a townland in the civil parish of Hollywood (Lower or Upper I don't know - some of the previous posters on this thread mentioned this townland). Given the recorded age at the time of marriage, Thomas would have been born in 1839. This looks like a possibility for them in 1901 and 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Dunlavin/Toberbeg/1808671/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Dunlavin/Toberbeg/889161/
Secondly, Jane Giltrap, a teacher (daughter of John Giltrap, a teacher) married Robert Giltrap in the Church of Ireland on 5 May 1870 (Hollywood parish), again both were from Mullica / Mullycagh. A Thomas Giltrap witnessed. As I said, not much to offer, but at least you know there was a teacher called John Giltrap, very possibly from the Mullica / Mullycagh area, in the first half of the 19th C. Given that the name Giltrap isn't common and that the teacher occupation should reduce the field, here's hoping you get more replies...
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Slim pickings indeed!!
Given that you are having such difficulty moving back from Henry & Deborah Giltrap I'd buy the Civil birth certs of the 3 children (Elizabeth 1864 baptism is online but it says the father's occupation is 'Sexton'?) it will give you some more names to look for - siblings were often sponsors on baptisms. For instance you know from the marriage that Henry's witness was Eliza Giltrap - a possible sister - also addresses will be a great help. There is only one record that I can see that might match this family and it's an odd one.
A Deborah Giltrap of 31 Jervis Street enrolled at the Society of Friends (Quaker) Sunday School 6/04/1879 same day as an Alice & Maria Harper of 4 Frederick Lane.
Cousins perhaps ?
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an Alice and Maria Harper
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c841c00565687
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Montpelier_Hill/1338850/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Montpelier_Hill/56824/
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Thanks Hasta and Dathai,
You're right hasta i was always told if you get stuck with one family look at another to find family connections as you say.
I saw that record stating henrys occupation as Sexton I have seen another where he is listed as Caretaker which is basically the same just a fancy Church name for odd job man.
That is an intersting record for the Sunday school if correct that places the family still in Ireland 1879 maybe famine of 1880 pushed them to move to Scotland as they are on Census of 1881 there.
Harpers names interesting Alice possibly Deboras sister and Maria her mother although I have her mother listed as Mavis I have seen her listed as Maria and Deborah seems to have name one of her daughters Annie/Anna Maria Giltrap.
I have just been supplied another 2 siblings Margaret Giltrap B 25 Jan 1855 Dublin and John Giltrap B 18th Jan 1857. There is a Maragret Giltrap aged 56 Single on the 1911 Census as vistor age matches with above.
Cant find records of above although as previously mentioned there is a John Giltrap Stone Sculptor marriage to a Louisa Levinge.
Margaret seems to fit in other than she poses a further questions who was her mother and was Henry married to a sister of Deborah previously as per record 1854 to Margaret Harper if so did she die? if that were the case that would clear up the similarity to the to marriage records.
The pickings may at last be starting to join together