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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: fulhamfanrob on Monday 17 May 10 00:17 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am just starting to look into my family tree, and was wondering if anyone can help me to find out what happened to my great grandfather's family after he was separated from them....?
My great grandfather, Charles Edward Richardson (b 1891 West Ham) was effectively orphaned at a young age. His mother died when he was about 10, and his father left shortly afterwards. Charles also had a brother (or half brother??) William J., who is thought to have been killed in WW1.
I have found the family listed on the 1901 census, living in West Ham.....
Adam Richardson (Head), Aged 42 (1859) b. Terling, Essex
Sophia " " (Wife), Aged 48 (1853) b Terling, Essex
William " " (son), aged 13 (1888) b Romford, Essex
Charles " " (son), aged 9 (1892) b West Ham, Canning Town
....and again on the 1891 Census living in Terling, Essex
Adam Richardson (head) aged 32 (1859) b Terling, Essex
Sophia " " (Wife) aged 38 (1853) b Terling, Essex
William J " " (son), aged 3 (1888) b Romford, Essex
I have managed to trace Adam's family right back to the first available Census (1841), however I am hoping to find out what happened to him, and to William, after his Sophia's death.
I have looked for William on the CWGC website, however this is a little tricky as I am not sure what his surname was!
I have not yet found William's birth certificate, so am relying on the census entries. The 1891 and 1901 census returns show William to be a Richardson....however my great uncle (Charles' son) believes that he was a Wager, and that Charles and William were half brothers, with Sophia having been married twice, first to a Wager and then to a Richardson. This seems to be backed up by my Charles' birth certificate. Which gives his father as Adam Richardson, and his mother as "Sophia Richardson, late Wager formerly Martchell".
I unfortunately don't have much to go on. Charles understandably didn't talk about his childhood much, but I suppose it is likely he wouldn't have known very much about his background anyway?
Any advice on how to find Adam or William after 1901 would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Rob
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Hi Rob
There is a marriage listed in freebmd for Sophia Wager and Adam Richardson - Sept quarter 1886, Fulham
Christine
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Hi Rob,
Sophia's first marriage from FreeBMD:
John Wager
Sophia Marschall Mar. Quarter 1872
Kensington Vol.1a page 43
Carmela
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Me again
If William was just 3 in 1891 then he was born after the Wager/Richardson marriage so his surname would be Richardson. There is a likely candidate in Islington in June quarter 1888 - William James Richardson. Unfortunately there are a lot of William Richardsons around! The only suitable William Wager is in Poplar in June 1886 - William Joseph, making him a bit older than 3 in 1891.
I've also looked for a marraige between Martchell and Wager but haven't found one.
Christine
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Well spotted, Carmela!
I even had phonetic surname search on and it didn't find it for me :o
Christine
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This is the marriage:
8th August, 1886
St Andrews, Fulham
Adam Richardson, 26, Bachelor, Labourer, 71 An?ill Street, Father William Richardson deceased Labourer
Sophia Wager, 32, Widow, 41 Averill Street, father James Martchall (could be Marschall) deceased Labourer
Adam made his mark and Sophia signed.
Witnesses were H G Young and J Timberlake
Regards,
Mo
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Sophia and John are still together in 1881 living as grandson and grand daughter to Jemima Joice. They do not appear to have any children.
Possible death for John in Shoreditch Dec. 1885. The age is 5 years out but the date would tie in with a re-marriage in 1886
Christine
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Wow! Brilliant. Thanks!
Christine - The marriage between Sophia Wager and Adam Richardson looks very promising! Wonder what they would have been doing in Fulham though? It's a long way from East London/Essex! I had assumed the marriage would have been quite local. Was it normal to travel a little? I can't imagine they had much money!
Carmela - The marriage between John Wager and Sophia Marschall looks right too! I tried just about every different spelling of Martchell I could think of but couldn't find anything! Again a bit concerned about the distance from Essex though!
Thank you very much both of you! Will have to get onto ordering these certificates!
Rob
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Hi
Well i have some of the dame information that has already been listed so i wont put that in again.
For deaths i found
Sophia Richardson d. March Quarter in 1902 aged 48yrs West Ham District
Adam Richardson d. March Quarter of 1913 aged 52yrs (a little out in age) West ham District.
For the CWGC there is a W J Wager who died on 10.12.1917. Service No.6691 it was a London Regiment and he was buried at POELCAPELLE BRITISH CEMETERY. No age or parents mentioned........
There is a William Joseph b. June Quarter of 1886 in Poplar District? Also two William James Richardson b. 1886 and 1887 both in Esses one in Romford District
Good luck
Claire
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Hi Mo.
Have just seen your post. That looks like it must be right then! The 1881 Census shows Adam living with his dad William, an agricultural labourer.
Which website did you use to find this information?
Rob
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Thanks Claire
Do you know of any way I can find out a bit more about the W J Wager who you found on the CWGC website? Are lots of Richardsons listed on there too. Do you think there is any chance he could have signed up as a Marschall/Martchell out of rebellion against his father for walking out? Or was that not the done thing then?
I guess the birth certificates in Essex are more likely, but then again I wouldn't have expected marriages in Kensington or Fulham! Any ideas how to find which one? Or will I have to order each of these birth certificates?
This is going to turn out to be an expensive hobby I can tell!
Thanks again
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The only way to go through the Richardsons on CWGC Website is to open any that would work out as a correct birth age and possible what area his regiment was from, some of the details do include parents names and or spouse.
I have had to go through pages to find what i want, it is not brilliant unless you have more information.
That is what i did for the Wager entry, though there were only 6 of them, i picked what i thought might match.
It is possible that Sophia had been widowed whilst pregnant and possible she had William before or just after her marriage to Adam Richardson.
You might like to try a website that does a service record I know A*****ry does some, on that document it might have parents and spouse, not sure on costs though and yes it is very expensive hobby, depends on what you want and what country you live in.
Claire
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Until I received Charles' birth certificate in the post a few days ago I had assumed that Sophia's maiden name was Wager!
I had searched the census for a Sophia (leaving the surname section blank), who was born at this time in Terling. The first result that came back was a Sophia Wager. My great uncle had mentioned the Wager name before, and so I assumed that he must have been mistaken about the connection. I followed this Sophia Wager's family all the way back to the 1941 Census! Clearly I was barking up the wrong tree!
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It is easier to notice 2 marriages if there are children......... and sometimes not.
I had one gentleman who supposedly married twice, however it was later discovered that it was untrue due to .....(i dont care how clever people are)........not been able to marry your 2nd wife before your 1st wife..........the first marraige was in 1798 the second was in 1797.........so yep i have barked up the wrong tree too. Counldn't find a brother.......who ended up part of a different family.
Claire
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Hi Mo.
Have just seen your post. That looks like it must be right then! The 1881 Census shows Adam living with his dad William, an agricultural labourer.
Which website did you use to find this information?
Rob
Hi Rob,
I used the London records on Ancestry. The also have the actual image.
Regards,
Mo
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Hi Mo
I have tried to look up the marriage between John Wager and Sophia Marschall
Mar. Quarter 1872
Kensington Vol.1a page 43
I have the 'Essentials Membership' on Ancestry, but it will not let me look at the actual image or the transcription. Do you know if I need the 'Premium Membership' in order to view it?
Cheers
Rob
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Hi,
Yes you do need the premium one. However I can`t find the John Wager to Sophia marriage on the London Records.
Mo
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Hello, this is sort of unrelated but in connection with Reply #5 of posted by mosiefish.
My great grandparents were married on 3 Jan 1886 in St Andrews Church, Fulham and one of their witnesses was J Timberlake - maybe a coincidence, or maybe part of a group of friends?
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Hi Can1958
I also wondered who J Timberlake was...
Did you know that Fulham Football Club started out as St Andrew's church team at about the same time. I guess it is likely that our relatives would have known some of the early players...?
http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Images/MorganPhillipsInterview_22_tcm21-88575.pdf
http://www.standrewsfulham.com/articles/football.html
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It looks like J Timberlake was probably Joseph Timberlake. He features in the 1891 census living in the parish of St Andrews and his profession is given as Verger Church of England. He was born in about 1851 in Hemel Hempstead. I guess he may have known our relatives, or he may have just helped with the services and acted as a witness when needed. I do not think my relatives lived in the area for very long so I am guessing that they would not have had many friends or family nearby when they were married.
Rob
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Yes, I found out about the Fulham FC connection to the church, but I'm a bit confused as my ggf played for Chelsea Reserves and some medals have been handed down to my sister (an ardent Chelsea supporter, as are most of the family). I don't know how Chelsea FC is linked to Fulham FC if at all. Anyway, I quite liked the Fulham link, so I have recently started to support Fulham :-)
As for J Timerlake, I thought he might be connected with the church, yes, I can imagine that he may have acted as a witness. I understand that my ggm was from a travelling family, and so may have been short on witnesses; the other witness, Mark Hearn, may be associated with her, although I am still trying to check him out.
My family stayed in the area, and my mum was born in Fulham in 1932, and I think my grandparents moved out to Middlesex in the 1950's.