RootsChat.Com

Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: paulsplace2009 on Saturday 15 May 10 13:29 BST (UK)

Title: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Saturday 15 May 10 13:29 BST (UK)
hi rootschatters

trying to find a relative on sp.......again i have had no luck with this one!!

i thought i had eventually found his death, but it was actually his son, who died at birth!!i cannott find this guy at all on sp!!

help!!

looking for death

edward maxwell copeland
born about 1826, in ireland
married to mary osborne

hope you can help!!

cheers
paul
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: Monty59 on Saturday 15 May 10 13:35 BST (UK)
Paul

Do you have a rough idea as to the year of his death at all?

Given that you've lgged the query under Lanarkshire, when did he relocate from Ireland?
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Saturday 15 May 10 13:46 BST (UK)
he was in ireland, but moved to scotland.

he was born in roughly 1826

he was living in govan in 1871, he was 45 years old.

after that though, he slips off the radar!!

cheers

paul
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: audrey on Saturday 15 May 10 13:49 BST (UK)
there was a son Edward born Glasgow
Edward Copland [note spelling ]10/3/1854
father Edward Maxwell Copland
mother  Mary Osborne

audrey
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Saturday 15 May 10 13:50 BST (UK)
hi audrey, thanks for messaging.

yes, when i was looking for edward, the only thing i found was a death for his son.

even tried spellin g it copland and still cant find edwards death!

cheers

Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: sancti on Saturday 15 May 10 16:57 BST (UK)
When did his wife die?

Did the record state she was 'married to' or 'widow of'?
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: yokerbrian on Saturday 15 May 10 20:42 BST (UK)
there are 4 Deaths registered in Glasgow for EDWARD COPELAND between 1871 and 2006 - i don't have credits left to check.

It could be that who ever registerd the death didn't know the middle name
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: hume on Sunday 16 May 10 00:29 BST (UK)
Hi Paul and RC-ers,

Mary Copeland nee Osbourne died September 21st 1877 at 173 Finnieston Street, Glasgow. At the time, she was described as the widow of Edward Copeland, seaman in the merchant service.

So if a death cannot be found on land, maybe at sea?

The last child that shows on the IGI for the couple is a Helen Copland [sic], born 1872 in Tradeston.
hume :)
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: sancti on Sunday 16 May 10 09:30 BST (UK)
There is only 1 death record on SP for an Edward co*p*land between 1871 and 1877 in Glasgow

There are none in the minor records
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: LizzieW on Monday 17 May 10 10:03 BST (UK)
My g.grandmother's son from her first marriage drowned in the North Sea on 17 February 1906, and although I have all the info, including his occupation and home address,  which someone researching Hull fishermen compiled from all the ships' logs, he is not registered anywhere as far as I can see, and by 1908 records were much better than the 1870s, so it seems to me that a lot of deaths at sea were either never officially recorded or recorded in the country in whose waters they drowned, which if you don't know where it was is not very helpful.

Lizzie
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: Alvagirl on Monday 18 July 11 22:41 BST (UK)
Hello Paul

Edward Maxwell COPELAND is very elusive, last seen in 1871 census at 32 Cumberland Lane (error by enumerator this year?  EMC's wife Mary OSBORNE was more likely born Balfron rather than in Glasgow).  No, I can't find death for him either.

This is a big brick wall in tree of a friend (hey, I was just googling EMC yet again . . .).  Please PM me with your email because this concerns possible living relative

Alvagirl
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: sancti on Monday 18 July 11 22:55 BST (UK)
His widow may have made a poor relief application which would contain details of his death
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Monday 18 July 11 23:03 BST (UK)
Hi everyone

Didnt think to check the poor relief. :)

Will try that the next time im in the mitchell

Alvagirl......ive private messaged you with my email address

Thanks

Paul
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: Alvagirl on Tuesday 19 July 11 14:17 BST (UK)
Can't remember off-hand if friend has looked for application for poor relief for Mary Osborne, if not it will be on her to-do list.  But she did find several for the Osborne line, including a dau of EMC, Maggie Copeland (b1869).  These have been superb sources of info, but as yet no more info on EMC
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Tuesday 19 July 11 15:32 BST (UK)
hi alvagirl

ive sent you my email address so that you can private mail me.

cant wait to hear about living relative as i have drew a blank on my copeland family! :)
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: suemike on Tuesday 04 September 12 11:24 BST (UK)
Hello List

I have just discovered the questions and answers to the above.

I am trying to find the parents of Edward Maxwell COPELAND for a disabled friend to help him with his research.

I have only just taken up the case but I know he was b abt 1826 Ireland and on the 1871 census he was listed as Sailor.  He was married to Mary OSBOURNE b abt 1835 and d 1877 Glasgow. They had four children.

I would be very grateful for any help.

Mike
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Tuesday 04 September 12 22:39 BST (UK)
Hi suemike

Edward maxwell Copland is my 3rd great grandfather.

Private message me and I will try and help you as much as I can and will give you any information I have.

Look forward to hearing from you

Paul
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: anne_p on Tuesday 04 September 12 22:55 BST (UK)

I was helping someone else on another forum last week re this family, and I could not find a death for Edward Maxwell Copeland either.

The other researcher  was following  William Copeland  the son of E.M Copeland and Mary Osbourne.
 William moved to Manchester and was living with his mother's sister at 1881.
He married in Chorlton in 1885 and was the grandfather of  James Leslie Copeland who played for Chelsea FC in the 1930's
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Tuesday 04 September 12 23:03 BST (UK)
Hello

That is fascinating! I never knew that about William Copland. Williams brother James is my 2nd great grandfather.

We cannot find a death for Edward maxwell copeland either. I have came to the conclusion that he must hve died at sea, as these deaths were often not recorded.

Can you please put me in touch with the researcher that your helping as we may be related.

Regards

Paul
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Tuesday 11 September 12 13:44 BST (UK)
hi everyone......

have now been looking at the copelands again.....

what a tragic life this family had......

2 children dead in infancy, a father presumably dead and lost at sea, a mother dead at 42, leaving four young kids behind.....its just so sad.

the only thing that baffles me, is that edward was a seaman, so should there not be records of him anywhere?
on his son james(my 2 x great grandfather) marraige cert, it states that edward(desceased) was a master mariner....... so surley there should be records of this somewhere??

thoughts??

thanks

paul
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: Gali on Thursday 13 September 12 09:55 BST (UK)
Not sure if you have got any further with tracing records of merchant seamen ... try findmypast.co.uk ... their index 'merchant navy seamen 1835 - 1941' shows the following which may be worth looking into:

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/merchant-navy-seamen

Edward Copland, born Killala, Co. Mayo, no birth date
Edward Copland, born Downpatrick, Co Down, b. 1833
Edwd Copland, born Downpatrick, Co Down, no birth date

It's a subscription site but you can pay per view, £6.95 will get you access to the above three documents, let us know what they say? 
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: suemike on Thursday 13 September 12 10:44 BST (UK)
Hello Gali

Thank you very much for the link I will try it.

Mike
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Thursday 13 September 12 10:50 BST (UK)
Thanks gali.

Mike, as asked before, is it possible for you to put me in touch with the person researching Edward and the Copeland family?

Regards

Paul
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: suemike on Thursday 13 September 12 13:32 BST (UK)
Paul

As my last answer. I cannot put you in touch with the person because he does not have the facilities to correspond with you.

You have sent an e-mail to my cousin who is also helping with the research, namely Shaun Bunce who you found his details on Genes Reunited. Shaun has no more information than I have in fact I probably have a little more.

With regard to my question to you about the brothers. If I can prove that Edward Maxwell b 1826 Ireland is a brother to Samuel Peterson b 1835 Ireland then I have the parents. I also have the parents of Samuel's wife Martha McDonald b abt1843 Ayr, Scotland they were also born in Ireland.

I sent you all the above information in a message offline with my e-mail address did you not get it?

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 13 September 12 15:45 BST (UK)
Hi Paul,
It wa myself who was helping Shaun with his family.
As a death cert for Edward cannot be located, his parentage cannot be established.

From census records, there is nothing obvious within either the families of Edward or of Samuel Copeland that provides a positive link to each other
Edward was a seaman. His wife and children lived in Glasgow.
Samuel was a gardner who lived in Ayrshire
There is nothing to link these two men, other than the fact that they were both Irish, and both had descendants who were footballers with the same club ( in different time periods)

Anne
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: suemike on Thursday 13 September 12 16:06 BST (UK)
Hello Anne

I think it is one of those cases where you have to 'put it to bed' for another time as I have had to do with my Gt Gt Grandfather. I can find his marriage but cannot find his baptism or parents.  I have been trying for about 25 years but have always come up against that proverbial brick wall.

The COPELAND birth dates are so close that it seems almost inevitable they are brothers but without proof it is a hopeless cause.

Thanks again.

Mike
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 13 September 12 17:02 BST (UK)
Mike,
I see where you are coming from re Edward and Samuel possibly being brothers, but did you know how many Irishmen called Copeland of a similar age lived in Ayrshire?
I think this is Samuel Copeland before his marriage to Martha:
(The family that he is visiting were also Irish. Only their youngest child was Scots born)

1861:
Andrew Copeland 43
Jane Copeland 42
James Copeland 13
William Copeland 10
John Copeland 5
Samuel Copeland 26,  Labourer (drainer), visitor b. Ireland
Address: 17 Hope Street, Ayr, Ayrshire
 
 
There are also these families:

1861:
John Copeland 36,  Labourer (dramer) b. Ireland
Isabella Copeland 31
Andrew Copeland 9
James Copeland 5
John Copeland 2
Address: 13 Hope Street, Ayr


1861
William Copeland 38, collier b. Ireland
Mary Copeland 30
Agnes Copeland 9
Jane Copeland 5
Address: Main Street B Houses, Dailly Ayrshire
 
 
1861:
Robert Copeland 30. labourer b. Ireland
Mary Copeland 22
Address: Sparrow House, St Quivox, Ayshire
 
 
1861:
James Martin 26
Janet Martin 21
William Copeland 35, drainer b . Ireland
Address: Allison Street, Newton on Ayr
 
 It complicates things.... just a bit!
Anne
 
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: suemike on Thursday 13 September 12 18:51 BST (UK)
Hello Anne

Thank you for the info. I will study it in great detail.

Mike
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Tuesday 26 March 13 17:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone.

Thought i would just update you on my search for the death of this edward, my great x 3 grandfather.

This is still a mystery.

Thanks

Paul

Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Thursday 04 April 13 10:10 BST (UK)
Tried to do some more work on EMC.

Looked at old parish records for his marraige, and did manage to find ot, however, there are no mention of his parents on this marraige cert.

Is this normal, for an old parish record to omit this?


Paul

Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 04 April 13 10:25 BST (UK)
Some notes regarding OPR banns & marriage entries here www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&406

Monica
Title: Re: edward maxwell copeland....help!!!!!
Post by: paulsplace2009 on Thursday 04 April 13 14:54 BST (UK)
Thank you monica.

This explains a lot :)

I think i may just have to put this one to bed....

What you think?

Haha!!