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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: patridee on Friday 14 May 10 21:13 BST (UK)
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Am seeking info on John Farrow who married Rachel Seeley from Brockley. They are my gr,gr,gr,grandparents. Hope some one can help, Thanks
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
Can you give us an idea of what timescale is involved here?
Can you also tell us what info you already have on them (eg) birthyears/birthplaces/children/ census/BMD etc so we don't spend time duplicating it
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i take it you have their marriage in the 3rd qtr 1848 in thingoe reg dist.
as carole says. what do you know already and what are you hoping to find out
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Am seeking info on John Farrow who married Rachel Seeley
Are you sure he was John?
The 1848 marriage found by Wozzle shows him as Thomas
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Just to further complicate things - the 1851 has a Rachel Farrow b 1826 Brockley living in Whepstead - husband James
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yes sorry my mistake.It is James Farrow Married Rachel Seeley 27th August 1848. James d.o.b.
is 5th February 1826. Their son John James is my g grandfather. He is in the 1881 census married to
Phaney nee Crookes with three children Alice aged 4, Annie aged 3,
and Arthur (my grandfather) aged 1.
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Can I ask what is the source of your birthdate for James?
There is a James of about the right age in Whepstead in the 1841 census in a family headed by a John and Kezia.
From the Suffolk Marriage Index
John Farrow
Keyzia Smith
20th March, 1821
Whepstead
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Thanks 'Suffolk Sue' this will be a great help.
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I don't know how I missed your posts. We are distant cousins!
John James' elder brother, George Henry Farrow (1853-1940), was my great-great-grandfather.
Their father was the son of John Farrow (b. 19 Jan 1799, d. 15 Oct 1887) and Kezia (nee Smith) (b. c1800, d. 2 Feb 1867).
John was the son of George Farrow (bap. 18 Feb 1770, bur. 7 May 1846) and Mary (nee Farrer?) (b. c1763, d. 3 May 1846).
Tracing the family any further back becomes very difficult because all the men were called George (sign of the times I imagine).
I took my mother on a little 'ancestral tour' back in March, taking in Whepstead, Brockley, Stonecross and Melon Green (and a lovely pub lunch). We even tramped around the cemetery of St. Petronilla's, where we bumped into the church curate. She explained that most of the farm labourers' cottages were pulled down years ago as they were in such a dreadful state - virtually uninhabitable. That sadly dispelled our hopes of standing in front of the 'ancestral house'. We had to make do with looking across the gently undulating fields and imagining generations of Farrows scything the corn.
Justin
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Am really pleased to have heard from you. I never thought I would actually have contact with a distant relative. This is really exciting. We were down in Suffolk this last week, and also visited Whepstead.We found the farm where James and rachel lived in the 1871 to app. 1875. It is a farm called Dodds Farm in Whepstead. It is a beautiful thatched cottage farmhouse.
Thanks for the details about john's parents George and Mary that will help in my search.
Did your George stay in Suffolk ? My John James moved to Sheffield West Yorkshire. They are in the 1881 census.
Would love to keep in touch.
Patridee
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How do you know that James and Rachel were at Dodds Farm (is that Upper Dods Farm)? Have you found him a directory?
The 1871 census is fairly vague and suggests somewhere closer to Melon Green.
See this earlier topic http://www.rootschat.com/links/08ps/
George didn't take to the outdoor farming life and headed to London in the 1870s possibly even with his wife-to-be, the Whepstead girl called Isabella Hammond, who was living with her widowed father at The Holes in Stonecross Green in 1871. She and George wed in Shoreditch in 1879. In subsequent censuses, George was employed in the cabinet-making trade in London (Chelsea then Tottenham).
Isabella died in London in 1922; George then returned to Bury, where he died in 1940.
Justin
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I found him in the 1871 census as a farmer. Then the researcher in the records office,at
Bury loooked in one of her directories and found him at Dodds farm. She photo copied it
for me, and also the ordanance survey map of the area and a sale notice for the farmhouse, buildings, cottage, gardens and 17 acres of land. This belonged to a Mr. John Mead.
So I am thinking this could be when John James went to live in sheffield. He is there in the 1881 census with a wife Phaney, born in Yorkshire, they have 3 children Alice 4, Annie 3, and Arthur 1 ( my grandfather).
I haven't found where out where John and Rachel where at this point yet.
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That's fascinating. Was James leasing the 20a. from John Mead or was that at a later date?
Do you recall which directory he was recorded in? I have been scouring the online historical directories to no avail.
Interestingly, Dodd's Farm is not even listed in 1869.
The 1871 census reports that James farmed the 20a. with his two sons only (an older son had died in 1869). I wonder if it simply proved too much for them, or there was a bad harvest making the farm unviable. Although James' widowed father, John, was living with the family and recorded as a labourer, he was over 70 and unlikely to have been able to help.
In 1881, James was once again a farm labourer living at Mill House with wife, children and father John. What on earth prompted John James to go to Sheffield? Are there any family legends?
I see from my records that John James and Phaney went on to have a further 7 children!
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Most likely directory would be one of the White's Gazetteer and Directory of Suffolk. I only have the 1844 and 1855 ones at home and in 1844 Dodds Farm is listed (at that time farmed by Walter Wallace).
It is not listed in 1855.
Pat ...
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I think it was either kelly's directory of 1871 or the one already mentioned.
Which of the elder sons had died in 1871 and do you know of what ?.
I am wondering if when John Mead sold his estate whether the new owner
also wanted the tennants out, and brought his own tennants in. Seems strange
for John James to have gone all the way to Sheffield just after. That is my next visit
to the records office in Sheffield and more searching.
I dont live far away so it easy to reach. D
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The elder son was William James Farrow, b. 1849, buried in Whepstead on 6 Jul 1869.
I believe there was a White's directory in 1874. He could have been in there too.
Have you found (or looked for) this John Mead in the 1871 census? I see that a Thomas Mead farmed Cage's farm in 1855.
Pat - this has all inspired me to take another look at my Farrow ancestors. I just fired an email off to Jill Orriss hoping for great results only to realise that she had recently passed away. A very sad loss indeed.
Justin
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Hello again Justin,
Jill's loss has been felt by many Suffolk researchers. I am hoping to find out what has happened to all the fiche she had purchased from Suffolk Record Office over the years that she so generously shared with us all.
Good news is that the 'new' Suffolk Surnames List should be live before too long and hopefully we shall get the 'Suffolk PR Look Ups Exchange' back to full working order ;D
Just noticed that in the 1844 White's is listed, under farmers at Whepstead, one Thomas Maid - now as White's is notorious for spelling errors, I wonder if this should read Thomas Mead?
All three branches of the SRO have a good selection of all the Suffolk directories, and I think my photocopied notes on our village came from the 1874 White's at Bury St Edmunds.
Pat ...
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Hello Pat,
Those fiches do represent a fabulous resource. Fingers crossed that they turn up.
I had seen Thomas Maid, but had not put two and two together; you could well be right.
How do you interpret the two vertical lines || between some pairs of names?
Were they also farming the land of the farm above or below?
Justin
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Have been in touch with Colleen Antrobus one of the church wardens at St.Petronellas church.
She said to go to my local recoreds office and look on the National Burial Index 1538-1910.
Should be able to find more relatives that way.
Have just found Arthur Farrow's army records on line also.
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Many Rootschatters have access to the latest version of the NBI as it is on CD-rom, also the Suffolk Burial Index - both available from the Suffolk Family History Society www.suffolkfhs.co.uk
Who are you looking for in burials?
Pat ...
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Here are the burials from the NBI.
George Farrow, bur. 11 May 1742
Sarah Farrow, bur. 2 Jul 1749
Mary Farrow, bur. 11 May 1755
Sarah Farrow, bur. 17 Oct 1763
George Farrow, bur. 30 Mar 1766
Mary Farrow, bur. 24 Oct 1795
George Farrow, bur. 20 Feb 1796
Mary Farrow, b. 1802, bur. 26 Jun 1803 aged 1
One can speculate that there three direct generations of Georges, but there is no other evidence to prove the theory.
I think we need to look at surrounding parishes to get an idea as to where the main concentrations of Farrows were. Unfortunately, none of these parishes are part of the LDS database.
It would be tempting to buy fiches as Jill had, but how and where could I view them?
Justin
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Hi Justin, a fiche reader came up on a Suffolk mailing List recently.
I am looking to buy another one, mine gave up a while ago.
A certain auction site always has fiche readers available.
If I need to check something on my fiches, I go to my local library which has a fiche reader and a film reader.
When you buy copies of PRs on fiche from the SRO, remember, you only need buy those that interest you - rather than a whole collection of PRs. Some parishes are complete on 6 fiches, busier parishes can have 30+ :o
Pat ...
who should be gardening but needs anti histamines (aaaa-choooooo)
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Thanks for your help Justin. Have only really got into family history seriously for a couple of years.
All this fische business is very new to me. I have tried to do all my research through the internet.
My visits to suffolk are my first outside the internet, it can be a bit confusing to say the least.
Do you live local to suffolk ?
I live in leeds so its a few hours away, but will be visiting again later in the year.
I will let you know how I get on .
Patridee
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Patridee, I live in south Suffolk with family in Framlingham, so use Bury St Edmunds and Ipswich ROs. If I can be of help - just holler.
I am arranging a Rootchatters Coffee Morning in July at the Bistro in the Museum of East Anglian Life in Stowmarket ;D
Pat ...
Researching 39 years and still seaching . . . . .
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Thanks Pat, may take you up on that in the future.
You must be really experienced then after all those years.
Let me know more about you coffe morning nearer the time .
Patridee
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You will find all the details of the get-together at the top of the Suffolk page (above this thread).
My dad researched his family history when I was a little girl and I used to sometimes accompany him to Somerset House and St Catherine's House. A few years later I saw a headstone in Fram churchyard to an ancestor with exactly the same name as my then fiance, we married and have continued with family history when time allowed, although we are both very involved with Suffolk Local History too.
Pat ...
www.slhc.org.uk
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I have now been in touch with relatives of John james and phaney.
Their daughter Rachels granddaughter has been in touch and given me names
marriage details of all JJ's children.
She also told me she has photo' of JJ and Phaney.
Patridee
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I live rather a complicated existence. My home (wife and kids) is in Dublin, but I spend the working week in Heysham (near Morecambe). Neither are exactly close to Suffolk.
Pat - I shall investigate your SLH site. I am very eager to learn more about the hard lives of Suffolk ancestors.
I have been in touch with a couple of other distant cousins in recent years, so I have a very extensive Farrow family tree. I shall devise a way of sharing it with you.
I have just noticed that JJ's and George's uncle George (1831-1883) served in the Coldstream Guards for 22 years, including in places such as the Crimea!
Justin
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Hello Justin,
The web site for Suffolk Local History Council is being changed and updated, however whether you find the new or the old version, you should find a page that gives the titles of lots of articles that have been published in our 'Review' in the past, these often relate to the working lives of our ancestors.
You can order a copy of any article for the cost of the postage.
We publish a Newsletter and a Review in Spring and Autumn, we are a non-profit making charity supporting local history groups/museums throughout Suffolk. There are also in the region of 280 Local History Recorders in parishes throughout the county, I recruited a new LHR only yesterday.
Pat ...
who should be doing SLHC work today ::)
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Hi Justin. Thanks for the info on George.. I have just discovered another distant
cousin in Australia... She is the granddaughter of Rachel married George
Freestone and the emigrated in 1924, I am in contact with her.
Would be glad to fill you in on the suffolk side if you need any help.
Regards Pat
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I found him in the 1871 census as a farmer. Then the researcher in the records office,at
Bury loooked in one of her directories and found him at Dodds farm. She photo copied it
for me, and also the ordanance survey map of the area and a sale notice for the farmhouse, buildings, cottage, gardens and 17 acres of land. This belonged to a Mr. John Mead.
So I am thinking this could be when John James went to live in sheffield. He is there in the 1881 census with a wife Phaney, born in Yorkshire, they have 3 children Alice 4, Annie 3, and Arthur 1 ( my grandfather).
I haven't found where out where John and Rachel where at this point yet.
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hi Patridee
I was interested in your post as I live at dodds cottage whepstead [ex dodds farm] I think I may have missed you earlier in the year? I have been working on the history of the house and hadn't found records of any farrows so would be interested in the information you found and the sales particulars -what was the date of this? I do have a photo of a group of Farrows outside the house in the 1920s and could send copy and details if required. These people were all from London but they thought that Farrows had previously lived in the house.
I think we have Had at least 3 different lots of Farrow relatives call round in the last few years!
Norfolk woman
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Hi norfolkwoman, Yes I did call at the cottage twice this year and missed you both times.
As I said in one of my post I got the information on Dodds cottage from Bury St. Edmunds record office. If you want I will send you copies of them. I would love copies of photo' s and any information you can give me.
I thought I had come to a dead end with this line of my research.
Regards Patridee
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Hello Norfolk Woman,
Welcome to Rootschat.
My grandmother's branch of this Farrow family had been in London since the late 1870s.
The photo sounds very interesting indeed; I would love to see it.
Justin
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Hi Patridee and Justin, happy to send you copy of the photo, it was given to me by a Farrow relative who lives locally. Being new to Roots chat -how do we exchange addresses without telling the world? By the way- Whepstead now has a good village website which I understand has been used by one or two others to help with their research.
Try to call again next time you are in the village! Norfolk woman
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Hi Norfolk Woman if you go into the help file at the top of the page, you will receive instructions on how to send personel messages. Then no one can read your messages,they are only seen by the person you send them to.
Patridee
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Hi Hopefully Patridee has the photo now and if Justin would like to let me have his address I can post his copy. I can also let you have the address of another Farrow researcher as I have his permission to do so.. It is strange though that I haven't been able to pin down any Farrows living at the house so looking forward to seeing the info from Patridee.
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Hi all from another distant cousin (with a silly screenname that was a nickname from schooldays...anyway...)
Right, here's my two penneth: James and Rachel's youngest son was Henry (Harry) William (1869-1957), he had three children (Mary Elizabeth (1918-2009), John Owen (1921- ) and James William Romaine (1924-2010)), and James W R had five children, of whom I am number 4 (born 1973). So this makes me James and Rachel's great grandson.
It may sound strange that there are so few generations between me and James & Rachel, but Dad was 49 when I was born and his father was 55 when he was born. So that's 104 years to span just three generations...
Grandad William (as I've always referred to him, although obviously I never knew him) was born behind a pub in Whepstead. Per his own notes about his early life, at the time (1869) his family was living at Fern Hill Cottage (presumably now Fern Hill Stud, Brockley Road, Whepstead). I don't know the age of the pubs but the two nearest ones are apparently the Wigwam and the Stag, so I would guess he was born behind one of them. He writes that a few years later his father rented a 20 acre farm which would have been Dodds Green Farm.
I have a brief timeline of his life and key events including his three marriages and time spent in London before moving back to Bury St Edmunds and opening an ironmonger's shop in Woolhall Street -the building is still there but I last heard that it was a nail bar. I also have an Excel-based family tree for which I can take very little credit,which I've compiled from info supplied by my cousin (the son of John Owen Farrow, who has been working on this for many years) and a John Farrow who may be a very distant relation but is not a descendant of George Farrow (1770-1846) and Mary (1762-1843), so there may be some errors and there are certainly some omissions.
If you would like me to share more of what I have, including a few photos, please get in touch! Similarly, I'd be interested to fill in a few gaps.
Steve
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Hi Steve, My great grandfather was John James brother of your Harry William. My grandfather was the 3rd child of his and Fanny Crookes. John James moved to Sheffield in Yorkshire where he married Fanny and they had 14 children. Many died as children. My grandfather Arthur married Agnes Barlow in Sheffield they moved to Leeds in Yorkshire in 1917. My mother was the youngest of their 6 children she was born in 1924-2000. I am the eldest of 7 children and am married with 2 children of my own. Would love to hear more about Harry, and anything else you know.
Regards Pat