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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: scarlettlady on Monday 10 May 10 10:29 BST (UK)
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can anyone help me with the will of a richard asshebye of hackney dated1558 i am trying to find the earliest ashbys in that parish and their place of origin which maybe ashby de la zouch as a Lord Zouch is recorded as beig in Hackney in 1600's.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Zouche
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashby-de-la-Zouch
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Parish records started in the 1550's prior to this it was a very ad hoc affair.The Zouch family are well documented & there's an ancestral file on IGI going back to the 1200's.The earliest Ashby's in Leics. also go back to this time but are LDS member submits & you would have to contact the provider to find where this came from.The Manoral records & Heraldic Visitations would give the best details as the families seem to be landed.This would mean tracing one or both families to establish a connection to each other or to Leics.
It was common for titled people to live in London but have land in the Shires.
jim
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you might be interested in this excellent website for Ashby De La Zouch Museum. they have extensive local records /photographs /family history stuff etc:
http://www.ashbydelazouchmuseum.org.uk/index.html
Diddy ;D
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thanks everyone for your kind help. there are several goods leads that have been given to me but as a beginner there are still some questions i have to ask for help with.
What does the term "landed" mean does it suggest that the families had land or were stuck in a parish after settling there sorry if it seems crudely put but im not clear on this term.
Would a will of 1558 be written in latin and would you have to be quite to make a will in those days if it is in latin is there somewhere i can get help with reading it?
Am I making a very tenous connection between the Lord Zouche who lived in Hackney and the Ashby line that seems to have originated in Hackney how could i prove the link between the two?
I will trace the earliest Ashby in Hackney which seems to be Richard Assheby of 1558 and offshoots of Edward Zouche the 12th Baronet who seem to died almost a hundred years later do you think this will help.
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can anyone help me with the will of a richard asshebye of hackney dated1558 i am trying to find the earliest ashbys in that parish and their place of origin which maybe ashby de la zouch as a Lord Zouch is recorded as beig in Hackney in 1600's.
I'm not sure what you are asking (bit slow in a morning ;D )
Do you have a will for Richard dated 1558 or are you trying to find it?
Have you looked at the national archives documents online? There is a William Ashby sentence (legal ruling on disputed will I think) from Clerkenwell 1594, that is not so far from Hackney. The only Richard I see listed is from 1596 embroiderer in the City of London. Try searching from the advanced search, http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/power-search.asp?searchType=powersearch using ashb* as that is likely to catch most of them, and set the date range to 1500-1600 and see if any look interesting. There is a Thomas Ashby will from 1523 in the City of London.
I think an early will could well be in Latin. I have seen posts on this site asking for help translating - either by posting bits for specific help or by asking if anyone will do the whole thing via email perhaps.
Not sure of the context of the "landed" question but if wills are involved then I would have thought it referred to land owned.
To be honest I think if you want to make any real connection between families then you have to concentrate on what you have as fact and try and work back from that. Ashby was a common place name (which is why the de la Zouch bit was tacked on to distinguish it. There is a bit about Lord Zouche in Hackney here http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/tudorhackney/localhistory/lochhy3.asp
(interesting that about the lobelia, I never knew that - I grew up in Ashby de la Zouch and always liked lobelias!).
Are you trying to push backwards from family history already established by someone else? What is the last bit that there is documentation for? That would be a good place to start (assuming that you trust the more recent stuff ;D )
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Thanks Gardener, interestingly enough there is a Richard Asshebye will of 1558 in Hackney archives I have checked with them and it is not in Latin but a 19thcent copy of an original document which does not appear to be online anywhere this is annoying as I shall have to get up there and phgotograph it.
I am trying to find a marriage for a Charles Ashby and Mary Ann Sears in 1752 in somewhere called St Botolphs (without) Aldersgate London this is the earliest know Ashbys I have documented from family papers but they were not checked from originals only from IGI does this matter.
Funny about the Lobelias its amusing to think of Lord Zouches liking for flowers as he too was a keen gardener by all accounts although youd suspect he never did his own planting!
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The term landed means that they were a land owner (as in "landed gentry").
It's possible that the Lord Zouch in Hackney is related to the Baron Zouch who founded Ashby-De-La-Zouch, but not guaranteed.
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I am trying to find a marriage for a Charles Ashby and Mary Ann Sears in 1752 in somewhere called St Botolphs (without) Aldersgate London this is the earliest know Ashbys I have documented from family papers but they were not checked from originals only from IGI does this matter.
Hi again. In another post you say
"Family records which have been made from the IGI many years ago show a possible Charles Ashby's baptismal record at St Thomas Finsbury, 11th May 1756, his parents are given as Charles Ashby and Mary Ann Ashby (nee Sears)."
But the IGI has the following marriage:
Charles Ashby to Mary Ann Sears, marriage at St Botolph Without Aldursgate, 3rd Dec 1852. Which seems to be the record you refer to above, only a 100 years later ???
And there is an IGI entry for:
Charles Ashby born 17 Dec 1853, bapt 11 May 1856 at St Thomas Charterhouse, Finsbury, parents Charles Ashby and Mary Ann.
Which again is 100 years later than in your post but has the same names and date (other than year).
Is it possible that things have got muddled together?
I'll look at your thread about Charles http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,450809.msg3128934.html#msg3128934 and have a think :)
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Hi Gardener ive been suffering from a cold and been offline for a couple of days but thanks for pointing out the Charles Ashby birth on IGI. I think the records on IGI are only reliable if put on by the IGI other submitters seem to get things quite muddled and it can lead one astray. I know there was an very early Charles Ashby born 1754/56 parents are given as another Charles Ashby and Mary Ann Sears at St Botolphs without Aldersgate.
Strangely enough ive found a resident list of St Botolphs for 1638 that lists a Mary Ashby as living there and paying rates of 6 (£) ? it seems to me maybe charles ashby born 1754 may have had family in that area and the records submitted on igi are not entirely accurate it really amounts to checking St Botolphs without Aldersgate records for this marriage and baptismal record of early Charles Ashbys, what do you suggest i may be entirely wrong though!
many thanks though for your thoughts will mull them over from my sickbed..... snuffle snuffle...
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Hi
Hope your cold is getting better! I've had a sprained thumb so not been doing much on the computer either :)
I've been dipping in and out of you posts and you certainly have a knot to untie what with name changes and so on. I know you have a ton of information now so probably anything I say can be discounted easily, but here goes just in case even one idea helps.
1. I just can't see that a Charles Ashby married Mary Ann Sears in 1852 at St Botolph (extracted record IGI) and that another entirely different couple with the same names married 100 years earlier (your records). But if you have seen the entry in the records then I must be wrong. From this distance it looks as though the marriage you have for Charles to Mary Ann, and the baptism of their son Charles have been mis-recorded a 100 years too early.
2. I don't understand this bit:
"The earliest Charles Ashby is the one whose birth record I need to trace to establish his parentage: (his father was thought to be a Richard Ashby of Eagle Street, Picadilly, London, died 1789 aged 60 but we cannot find a death record anywhere for Richard Ashby although I have managed to find him mentioned by name and address in the rate books for Westminster for the year 1780,
so I know he existed but why no death records anywhere?) He is reputed to be a son of the Ashby of Harefield line who converted to catholicism changed his name from Robert to Richard Ashby and died in 1767 without issue ie was dead to his family for converting but secretely married and had issue but was cut of of his fathers will anyway for converting to catholicism and his father Robert Ashby senior left everything to his daughter Elizabeth."
I can't quite work out who died when. The NatArchives has wills:
1767 Robert Ashby of Custom House London
1769 Robert Ashby of Harefield
then there is a record ACC/85/343 15 June 1762
which talks of Robert Ashby snr of Harefield and Robert Ashby jnr of Custom House so are the two wills for father and son? Did the son Robert die in 1767 before is father or are these just probate dates so his father died first but not probated until after?
You said somewhere that Edward Ashby said his grandfather "on fathers side was an unbeneficed clergyman called Richard". I can't mesh that with the idea of Robert Ashby converting to Catholicism and changing his name to Richard.
3. I noticed that you give the marriage for Edward Ashby to Elizabeth Eyre at Well Street Chapel in 1813. It also took place 26 April 1813 at Saint Benet Fink, London (IGI), I think it needed to be in a parish church to be legal. Does that entry have any details different to the chapel one? I doubt it but you never know!
4. Very interesting family you have! I found some stuff about Elizabeth Eyre's father - you probably have it already http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22714
I wondered if Charles left everything to his 2nd wife because Edward was financially settled? But perhaps he was miffed if he had become a dissenter.
5. Edward's brother Francis Jukes Ashby - do you know where the Jukes comes from?
Not helping am I? ;D This is my 3rd attempt to post something sensible so I will post it, sensible or not!
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Hi Gardner, sorry ive been offline for a while with half term etc. I actually went to Hackney St John at Hackney and couldnt find a single Ashby grave but ive noticed a rather interesting amount of a line of Ashbys coming out of Hackeny starting around 1822 so i think ill start by tracing them to where they originated and that maybe give me a clue as to whether they are an older Hackney family or they just sprung up in that borough in 1822 from nowhere? any more ideas as ive run out of steam on this one erm......
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As a surprise part of my family tree has been uncoverd, im trying to trace my great great great grandfather on my fathers side who was mentioned in two census on ancestry in the last one of 1861 he was living in Bath Somerset Uk aged 66 he died in 1866 in Dover and his birthplace is given as East Bank West Indies He was a retired Major his wife was Irish Anne Bowles and they married in Dublin in 1811 when she was 17 then i think went abroad to the West Indies and Noia Scotia where they had a son Joseph G Robinson born in 1821 Novia Scotia and a daughter Anne G Robinson born 1824 Berbice and later another son Barnes Slyfield Robinson born in Dublin 1834. His daughter Anne G Robinson is listed in the Regimental Birth Index 1824 vol 1077 page 9 her fathers regiment is the 60th ? but 60th what regiment and was he british or west indian im confused....any help or suggestions i can find the robinson family history on ancestry but the record is private.
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Hi
That sounds a good plan to try and trace back the one line of Ashbys from hackney. How is it going?
You might do better to post the other query on a new thread. Either here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,421.0.html
or here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,300.0.html
If you could sort out which regiment Robinson snr was in then you might be able to see which countries they served in.
I expect he was British even if he was born in the West Indies. Do you know what the "G" in the children's names stands for? And Barnes Slyfield seems a very unusual name. Perhaps these are surnames as first names and may lead to an earlier generation?
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hi thanks for replying to my tangly knot.
Joseph Robinsons regiment seems to have been the 60th Royal American Regiment
I have followed his father? and his progress in the army since 1814 it seems they were posted to Berbice which is in Guyana and the West Indies for most of their careers. Joseph's children were born in Berbice and Nova Scotia which is also where this regiment was also posted. I traced him to Bath Somerset in 1861 he died five years later 71 in Cheshire I think.
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How do i trace births in this regiment in Guyana in 1796 birthplace is given as East Bank Guyana.
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As I have just found the G in the childrens names stands for George in the grandson's name and Georgina in his daughter Anne's name. George Robinson is mentioned several times as is a John and a James in an old online book of the 60th regiments history and the ranks of its various officers. This book also lists when the particular battalions of this regiment where posted, when and for how long. I have discovered that the name Slyfield, Joseph Robinson Senior gave one his son Barnes as a second name belonged to a Major Stephen Slyfield active in the 60th Royal American Regiment in the 6th battalion which saw action in various places amongst them Fort Wainright in the 1820's. The place where Joseph Robinson died seems to have been Cheshire in the UK in 1866.
Im trying to think how can all this help me trace Joseph Robinsons origins as his father was also born in the West Indies in around 1778 and was listed as an Ensign in the 60th royal american regiments history which means he was not British. I sure there's an easier way to unravel their original origins.....
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Have you checked the GRO regimental birth indices? They start at 1761 and are on http://www.findmypast.co.uk/MilitaryChooseSearchType.jsp
I don't know if you would have any luck there. Some births were registered by the British Consul too.
Start a post in the right section of Rootschat, where the experts hang out, and link it to this one. Just ask for help finding the birth of Joseph Robinson around 1778, in the West Indies, connection to the army.
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Barnes Slyfield Robinson was my Great Great Grandfather who served in the Royal Irish Fusiliers (89th Regt) in the Crimea and commanded them at El Teb in the Sudan. Let me know if I can help further.
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Hello James,
thanks for replying to my post, that sounds interesting.
Im sure that Barnes Slyfield Robinson is who Sir Barnes Wallis was partly named for. Sir Barnes Wallis was my fathers uncle. I have traced some of the the Wallis tree and the Robinson tree but i cannot find the birthplace or country of origin of Joseph Robinson snr Barnes Slyfields Robinsons father except a 1795 birthdate and marriage to anne georgina robinson in co aherlow ireland. Joseph Robinsons children or some of them were born in Berbice Guyana.
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Her name was Anne Bowles and she was born in Youghal in 1799 as stated in the 1851 census when she lived in Liscard. We knew of a connection with Barnes Wallis but I will have to rediscover it. Barnes Slyfied (photo attached) served in The Royal Irish Fusiliers, his daughter married my Great Grandfather who was a Lt in his Regiment at El Teb. However, his Grandfather Gilbert served in another 61st of Foot securing the West Indies from the French and later he fought in the Peninsular war in the battle of Salamanca. His father Joseph was also in the Army and retired as a Major having served in the West Indies.
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Hello there James,
thanks so much for the amazing photograph, i will print off a copy if thats ok with you.
I am slowly unravelling the robinson/bowles strands.......annie g robinson was my great grandmother, she died in 1859 after the birth of Charles W.G. Robinson Wallis, Barnes's father and my great grandfather. I have traced the Bowles line right back to the time of Cromwells arrival in ireland and they seem to have lived in Youghal and Glenaboy where that is in Eire i dont know, Henry Bowles was a JP, of the Robinsons I dont know quite as much except what you have kindly filled in, do they originate in Eire or from elsewhere although Robinson seems to be an irish surname.