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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: chafox on Saturday 08 May 10 09:26 BST (UK)
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Hello
I have been researching the Johnson family in Beverley, Yks and Grange Walk Bermondsey,
for the last year, and now know that William Johnson, tanner, of Grange Walk, went into business
with a Giles Fox, from say 1800 to 1820, at Grange Walk, running a tannery business,
and it is in street directories of the period.
I would like to find out more about Gilkes Fox, but so far he is only a name.
I can't find himn in the local parish record, St Mary Magdalene, or on Ancestry's parishes of London, "so far"
His name doesn't appear in the IGI, and after 1820 his name vanishes from the partnership in the directories.
Has anyone any ideas ?
Terry
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Giles Fox , have found the following, this may or not be your man
1841
ref H107 piece 486 book 19 dist 18 page 49
Stour St Canterbury
Giles Fox born circa 1777 not born in county looks like patton maker
Elizabeth Fox born in county
Louisa Maud
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...who may be the same Giles Fox son of Giles and Esther Fox baptised at St Botolph without Aldersgate in Feb 1773. the original entry has no information on their address or occupation.
Richard
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this Giles Fox is in Canbterbury in 1851 as well.
It says Chelsea pensioner.
it also says born Canterbury.
There's a possibility that they match up with the one I'm looking for.
I wonder
terry
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going further with him, it looks as if he died in 1862, as did his wife,
and if the 1861 census is anything to go by, his wife's maiden name was Taylor,
as they are living with her sister. That census says Elizabeth was born Blean.
Elizabeth Mary Ann Fox died Medway Jun qtr 1862,
Giles Laurence Fox d Blean sep qtr 1862
The Johnsons before going to London, were in Hamshire, before ( and after)that - in Kent.
There was a tanning centre in the East Peckham area of Kent I believe.
Doesn't quite make a link to St Botolph's, though, the Bermondsey tanneries.
Terry
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ok, here's his national archives entry re his military service, I think.
It doesn't look like the man I'm looking for.
GILES FOX
Born WESTGATE, Kent
Served in Kent Militia
Discharged aged 59
Covering dates 1798-1835
The relevant dates for the tanning company are 1801=1817 when the business was called
Johnson and Fox.
Terry
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I went down to the TNA and looked up the chelsea hospital entry for Giles Fox
It shows the career of a soldier who became a regimental seargent after serving from 1800 to 1840
who was a pattenmaker, and elsewhere says labourer by trade.
If he was a partner in a tanning business, from 1800 onwards, what would he be doing in the army ?
and the trades don't seem to match either.
In those days, surely we'd be talking about two people on different class levels, wouldn't we?
A patten maker isn't a tanner anyway.
So still looking, I think.
Terry
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Johnson & Fox are in Holden's 1811 directory.
Jennifer
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11.6.10
that's right Jennifer.
The partnership is in Johnston's London directory of 1817 too.
I have looked in the indexes for Batrtersea Rate Books
- all I've had a chance to look at during the upgrading process of Southwark Archives -
and they give Johnson and Fox as ratepayers Spa Road 1801
but only William Johnson at Grange Rd 1811 and 1821.
It is only the 1801 entry that gives the given name Giles with William's partner.
That's the sole evidence I have for his full name.
Terry
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Hello Terry,
William Johnson, the partner of Johnson & Fox tanners, was my G.G.G. Grandfather. However, all the Fox information is new to me and I can't add anything there.
However, I wonder if you are aware of the article which appeared in "The Morning Chronicle" ( London,England) on Thursday, July 25, 1805. It reads " To Tanners- To be Let, at Michaelmas next, a capital Tan yard, containing upwards of 80 pits, well supplied with excellent water, with the drying sheds, bark barn, mill, scouring house, and appurtenances, with two acres of meadow land, and a good dwelling house, situate at Alresford, in the County of Hampshire.
For particulars inquire of Mr Cranley or Mr Johnson at Alresford, or Messrs Johnson and Fox, Tanners and Leather Factors, Southwark, London." Additional Johnson information I can provide, if you are interested.
( George Johnson, e-mail: (*))
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Thanks again, George
That must have been the result of the Johnsons removing from Alresford to Grange Walk bermondsey in the very first years of the 1800s.
I have kind of got hooked on finding out all I can about the Johnson and Fox business.
that's very interesting, and any info on that early period is very welcome.
thanks very much.
Terry
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Hi George
Welcome to Rooschat ;D
Thank you for replying on this topic. Please make another post and then you will be able to correspond on the personal message system.
Dawn
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Hi,
If you want more on the Fox connection, this indicates that Johnson was in business with a Charles Fox at one time - deceased here in 1823: column 2 http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/17919/pages/720
This corresponds with the PCC will of a Charles Fox, tanner, in the right area in 1823.
Regards
Rob
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Hi Rob,
Although I have never established a relationship between the Johnson and Fox families, who were involved in the Johnson & Fox Tannery of Bermondsey, I have a note on my file that William Johnson and a Charles Fox resided 5 doors apart.
I would be interested in knowing the additional information you may have, regarding the connection of the two families.
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The books that I saw, which gave the name GILES Fox were only transcripts.
Not having looked at the original rate books, it has to be possible that the name Giles is a mistranscribing for Charles.
That could explain why the name Giles does not tally.
A death in 1823 would be about right for his disappearance from the scene.
Terry
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The Times, Saturday, Aug 25, 1821; pg. 4; Issue 11334; col B
and The Times Saturday, Sep 08, 1821; pg. 4; Issue 11346; col B
Advertisement:
"To Tanners, Engineers, Manufacturers, and Builders.- Extensive and valuable Freehold Tanyard, Stock and Utensils in Trade, Carts, Waggon, a capital Cart Gelding, and Alderney Cow, an excellent strong-built Gig, with Collinge's patent axle, Harness, Saddle, Bridles, &c.; the Grange, Bermondsey, on Thursday, September 13, at 11, by direction of the proprietors, Messrs Johnson and Fox, quitting the tanning business,
A Valuable Freehold Estate, comprising a spacious and eligible tanyard, peculiarly well adapted for the new system of tanning, every requisite outbuilding, a comfortable dwellinghouse, a countinghouse. On the same day, and immediately after the sale of the estate, will be sold a quantity of coppice bark, about 20 loads, horsehair bags, 2 capital bark mills, an excellent cast iron striking roller, with bed, cast iron beans, striking pins and boards, pumps, shoots, Medhurst's patent weighing machine, and numerous other utensils used in the tanning business. The premises to be viewed till the sale, and the utensils on the Wednesday previous, and particulars had of Messrs Hicks and Braikenridge, solicitors, Bartlett's-buildings, Holborn; also catalogues of the utensils of Mr Adamson, 58, Fenchurch-street."
The Times Friday, Jan 31, 1823; pg. 1; Issue 11783; col A
Advertisement:
"To Tanners. - Fareham, Hants, - For Sale by Private Contract, a very superior Tan-Yard, well stocked, and in full work, with suitable sheds, barns, and every building and convenience requisite for carrying on an extensive business; also a commodious dwelling-house adjoining, with a garden and piece of meadow land. The premises are copyhold of inheritance, nearly equal to freehold, and most eligibly situate for a supply of bark and hides; distant 6 miles from Gosport, 9 from Portmouth, and 12 from Southampton. For further particulars apply (if by letter, free of postage) to Messrs Johnson and Fox, leather factors, Bermonsey; or Mr Maidman, solicitor, Fareham."
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Family search has the following
Charles Fox of Surrey, died 1823
spouse Frances Rich b 31 jan 1787 Bermomndsey; died 28 Jan 1846
married 1809 to Charles Fox.
terry
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A little more information.
The St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey baptism records from Docklands Ancestry has two
baptisms that fit in with this.
Frances Sarah born 4th July 1810
baptism 29th November 1810
to Charles Fox ( tanner) and Fanny Fox
and Thomas, to Charles ( tanner) and Fanny Fox
born 16 Nov 1811
and bapt 10th Jan 1812
Terry
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I have been down to the National records to get Charles's will
(better 20p there than £3.50 on-line.)
It isn't very informative.It leaves everythinbg to his wife Fanny,
and says that she should distribute his estate amongst his children at her discretion.
It mentions copyhold properties as part of these estates, (but not by name)
and gives his address as Surry Square, Kent Road, Bermondsey.
It's only about 30 lines of text in total.
Terry