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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: omap on Thursday 06 May 10 08:57 BST (UK)

Title: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: omap on Thursday 06 May 10 08:57 BST (UK)
Can anyone help here?  I have had ancestors living, married and born at 60 Annfield Road for almost 100 years and yet when I searched the address on Google Earth what I get is an industrial area!!  And the industrial area appears to have been there forever with some really ancient buildings.  In saying that across the road is a vacant grassy area.  Could it be that there used to be row houses on that grassy area as recent as 1981 but have since been demolished? 

My sister travelled from Canada to visit  my great Aunt Mary Allan Lorimer at 60 Annfield Road in summer 1981 and she distinctly remembers there being row houses two stories high and she had to go round back to access the stairs to my great Aunt's 2nd floor appartment.  She said in back of the row houses was a grassed area with tables and she spoke to the ladies sitting there sunning themselves.

Any help on where to find out what happened to the row houses would be appreciated.

Thanks...MJ
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: jobarnesmum on Thursday 06 May 10 09:33 BST (UK)
I cant help but wonder if the good people at TVFHS can help

find them here http://www.tayvalleyfhs.org.uk/

Jo
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: bleckie on Thursday 06 May 10 12:53 BST (UK)
Hi Mj

have a look at the link below it is the street map for Dundee 1870 over current google map.

From memory I think the houses in anfield road were demolished mid to end 80s.

http://geo.nls.uk/maps/towns/dundee1870/openlayers.html

yours Aye
BruceL
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: Lisaw on Thursday 06 May 10 14:25 BST (UK)
Hi MJ,

Did your sister happen to take any pictures of the row houses? My family lived at, if memory serves correctly, 13 Annfield Row (not sure if Row or Road) & 16 Annfield Street.
Does anyone know if this entire "Annfield" area (street, row & road) was demolished?
Thanks,
Lisa
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: omap on Thursday 06 May 10 18:02 BST (UK)
Thanks Jo......will try them.

Bleckie:  Thanks for the info.  I tried the Google overlay but couldn't get it to zoom in.  I did Google Earth the address, zoomed in and saw the street view of the industrial area on the west side of Annfield Road and the open grass field on the west side of Annfield Road.  It's a huge grassy area.  I assume the grassy area must be where the row houses used to be. 

Lisa:  My sister is going to look for pictures she took on her trip to Dundee.  She is presently finishing building her new house (living in it at the moment) and everything is still in boxes, so it could be awhile before she locates the pictures.  ::)
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: breaky on Friday 07 May 10 11:50 BST (UK)
Hope this link works

www.nls.uk/maps/atlas/bartholomew/view/?id=1208

Go west up the Hawkhill road.


breaky
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: omap on Friday 07 May 10 16:48 BST (UK)
Thanks Breaky....that map is awesome.   From doing the Google Earth street view I can relate to the buildings on the west side of Annfield Rd but strangely on this map it does not show the buildings on the east side.  I guess it doesn't show ALL the buildings.  At any rate the map is awesome.  Thanks again.  Will forward this site to my sister and see if these areas ring any bells.

MJ
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: breaky on Saturday 08 May 10 11:54 BST (UK)
Oops - I'd forgotten I have the Alan Godfrey edition of the 1901 map of Dundee (South).

www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk

This does show houses on the east side of the road, near the Hawkhill end. 

On the back of the single map sheet, however, are printed a couple of pages of "directory extracts from a 1901 edition for Dundee" -

Number 73 Annfield Road has

Cathro, Miss H., dressmaker
Urquhart, J.T., telegraphist
Robertson, John, photographer
Lorimer, W.K., baker
Bogue, John, waste merchant.

(The church further up the road is Martyrs Free Church).

breaky
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: omap on Sunday 09 May 10 04:11 BST (UK)
That is so incredibly cool Breaky.....you just solved a mystery.  I knew my Great Aunt Mary's son lived just a block or two away....and you just gave me his initials....W.K. Lorimer.  My sister couldn't remember his first name.  This will jog her memory.   Does it list the residents of 60 Annfield Rd. on the back of those sheets by any chance?
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: breaky on Sunday 09 May 10 12:21 BST (UK)
Sadly, there  is no number 60, unless it was empty at the time and not included.

Number 49 is followed by Martyrs Free Church, then "Blackheath House", then number 73 -  in one column on the page.

The second column has number 62 "Grayfield House", then number 60.

Only one of the two houses is named on the map,  that's "Greyfield House" with an "e", number 62, but it's on the West side of Annfield Road.

Blackheath House was probably the house on the East side - (Blackheath Place is the next street further along on the Hawkhill Road to the East of Annfield). 

No other Lorimers are listed.

I don't have an Ancestry subscription, but I think the 1881 census can be searched under street name there, so perhaps another Rootschat member might be able to help?  If you are looking for Dundee yourself on Scotlands people, then try Angus with the district "Liff" (Liff and Benvie") for 1901.

breaky
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: Lisaw on Sunday 09 May 10 13:13 BST (UK)
Good morning,

1881 census 60 Annfield Road:

David & Margaret Fairweather & family: David A., James, Christina, & Margaret, also Mom Agnes Will

George & Margaret McMillan & family: Robert, William, John, Mary, & Jemima

William & Eliza White & family: Eliza, John, James, Margaret, Eliza, & Cathrine.

Lisa

Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: Harry Peter Rose on Saturday 17 March 18 06:39 GMT (UK)
google Annfield House ....surrounding factories and homes have been demolished.. .the house remains as flats and you could actually stay as an exchange of homes guest!   GREAT HISTORY ABOUT THIS HOUSE!
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: Harry Peter Rose on Saturday 17 March 18 06:47 GMT (UK)
A follow up to Annfield  House which I new well when I lived in Dundee it was mentioned today in
https://www.facebook.com/groups/664596423667561/

WHITE ROCK BC CANADA
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: Harry Peter Rose on Saturday 17 March 18 06:50 GMT (UK)
google Annfield House ....surrounding factories and homes have been demolished.. .the house remains as flats and you could actually stay as an exchange of homes guest!   GREAT HISTORY ABOUT THIS HOUSE!
https://www.homeforexchange.com/listing/united-kingdom/dundee-2-br-flat-in-dundee-city-in-heritage-home......I am going to stay there
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: HeatherConnie on Saturday 26 May 18 20:52 BST (UK)
Here is a bit of the 1900 map of Dundee. I lived on the north side of Annfield Street at the junction with Peddie Street from 1962-66. That tenement is still there, but most of the rest of the street is long gone.
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: David Boulding on Saturday 13 December 25 11:36 GMT (UK)
My mother's family (Boyd) appears to have lived up and down Annfield Rd. My mother was born at 45 Annfield Rd

My great great grandfather James Boyd (1815-1893) at 39 Annfield Rd and later at 2 Annfield Rd

Did anyone ever find some photos of the older street pre-demolition?
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: markw78 on Thursday 18 December 25 18:49 GMT (UK)
omap
Here is link to street map showing where No 60 was located...
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.6&lat=56.45864&lon=-2.99076&layers=170&b=1&o=100

Also if you use https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to search for your relatives name for age range...
under Valuation rolls you may find their records for what they were charged for rent... from what I seen there was 16 tenants in 1920... right up to the attic.......

Some of my annestors also lived at No 16 Annfield Road in 1911...

Good Luck with your research
Regards
Mark W

Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 18 December 25 19:34 GMT (UK)
under Valuation rolls you may find their records for what they were charged for rent...
No, that's not what the figures in the valuation rolls mean. If you look carefully at them, there is a figure called 'rental' even for houses which were owned, not rented, by the people who lived in them.

They are a hypothetical figure arrived at by an assessor surveying the size and amenities of a building according to an arbitrary scale. These valuations were used to calculate the rates, that is, the local taxes levied on householders and businesses to pay for local public services, and they are not related to the rent that a tenant actually paid to his or her landlord.

Quote
from what I seen there was 16 tenants in 1920... right up to the attic.......
That's fairly typical of a tenement in a city centre, which might well have four floors with four separate self-contained flats (apartments) on each floor. More than four floors was less common until the advent of lifts (elevators) but there are still thousands of tenement blocks with stairs and no lifts in Scottish cities. I used to live in one such block in Edinburgh.
Title: Re: 60 Annfield Road, Dundee?
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 18 December 25 20:14 GMT (UK)
I don't have an Ancestry subscription, but I think the 1881 census can be searched under street name there, so perhaps another Rootschat member might be able to help?
I don't have a subscription to Anc* either but I do have a set of the CD-ROM transcription of the 1881 census that was published many years ago by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons).

There were three households listed at 60 Annfield Road in 1881. The street is in the parish of Liff and Benvie, but much of the parish was then and is now actually in the city of Dundee, which had expanded well beyond the boundaries of the parish of Dundee. Many census transcriptions have an inconvenient tendency to omit the name of the town or city when it doesn't share the name of the parish.

The FindMyPast Verson of this census gives the address as '60, Annfield Road, Liff & Benvie, St Peter, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland' which is not especially helpful if you're looking for Dundee, and the LDS one does the same, but omits St Peter.

Dwelling:   60 Annfield Road
   Census Place:   Liff & Benvie, Forfar, Scotland
   Source:   FHL Film 0203480     GRO Ref    Volume 282-1    EnumDist 27    Page 9
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
William WHITE   M   39    M   Muthel, Perth, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Joiner
Eliza WHITE   M   39    F   Cromerty, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
John WHITE       6    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
James WHITE       1    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
Margaret WHITE       8    F   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Dau
   Occ:   Scholar
Eliza WHITE       6    F   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Dau
Cathrine WHITE       4    F   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Dau

   Dwelling:   60 Annfield Road
   Census Place:   Liff & Benvie, Forfar, Scotland
   Source:   FHL Film 0203480     GRO Ref    Volume 282-1    EnumDist 27    Page 9
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
David FAIRWEATHER   M   41    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Clerk (Gas Co)
Margaret FAIRWEATHER   M   42    F   Aberfeldy, Perth, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
David A. FAIRWEATHER       12    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
James FAIRWEATHER       1    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
Christina FAIRWEATHER       13    F   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Dau   Handicap: Blind
   Occ:   Scholar
Margaret FAIRWEATHER       3    F   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Dau
Agnes WILL   W   63    F   Lethnut, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Mother
   Occ:   Annuitant

   Dwelling:   60 Annfield Road
   Census Place:   Liff & Benvie, Forfar, Scotland
   Source:   FHL Film 0203480     GRO Ref    Volume 282-1    EnumDist 27    Page 9
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
George MC MILLAN   M   28    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Mason
Margaret MC MILLAN   M   27    F   New Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland
   Rel:   Wife
Robert MC MILLAN       5    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
William MC MILLAN       3    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
John MC MILLAN       2    M   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
Mary MC MILLAN       6    F   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Dau
Jemima MC MILLAN       4 m   F   Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
   Rel:   Dau

It was actually quite interesting to see the distribution of house types in the street. On the odd-numbered side, there were 15 addresses occupied by a single households, and 12 occupied by from two to 16 households. No 43 and Nos 51 to 71 were not listed at all. On the even-numbered side, there were 12 addresses occupied by single households and 8 by three up to eight households. Nos 4 to 10, 18, 28 to 38, 50 and 62 to 84 were not listed at all.