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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Sutherland => Topic started by: andy_smed on Saturday 26 March 05 08:34 GMT (UK)
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I have a copy of the parish register for Durness for Baptisms and Marriages from 1764-1814. If anyone would like me to do a lookup I would be more than happy to.
All the best
Andy
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Andy, you are a star, many thanks for the offer - you might be sorry you did!
(By the way before I start, is it possible to purchase a copy? I would happily do my own look ups if I could get hold of one)
In the meantime anything you can find on any of the following would be much appreciated:
John Sutherland (or MacRory) married to Barbara McKenzie who had Roderick Sutherland, ch 09.09.1793 @ Durness. They also had John b.1787, Flora Forbes b.1792 and Rachel b.1785.
Also George McKay and Jean Morrison who married I think 19.01.1790 @ Durness. think Jean was b. 04.02.1771 @ Durness and her father might have been George.
they had a daughter Mary McKay b. 15.11.1792 @ Durness.
There's lots more but those would be great to help me on my way.
Many thanks
Ellen.
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Hi Ellen, sorry its taken so long but I have been unable to get onto rootschat for a while dont know what the problem was but it seems to be fixed now.
SUTHERLAND
Baptisms
08/01/1791 John Sutherland tennent in Achumore and Barbara MacKenzie, Marion
09/09/1793 John Sutherland alias Macrory (son of Rory) tennent in Achumore and Barbara MacKenzie, Roderick
15/11/1795 John Sutherland farmer in Achumore and Barbara MacKenzie, William
21/01/1798 John Sutherland farmer in Achumore and Barbara MacKenzie, William
19/07/1800 John Sutherland farmer in Achumore and Barbara MacKay, Janet (dont know why she calls herself mackay at this time?)
13/06/1802 John Sutherland farmer in Achumore and Barbara MacKenzie, Donald MacKay
There is only one Rachel born in 1785, she is the daughter of John Sutherland and Henrietta MacLeod. The John and Flora Forbes are also children of these parents. Funnily though these are members of my family.
Did note that there was a Rory Sutherland in Durness previously having at least two children, George bp on 12/04/1769 and Donald bp 16/07/1772.
MACKAY
Marriage
19/01/1790 George MacKay MacKenzie, tennent in Crosple and Jean Morison, alias nin Hustian Duin in Cnocbreac
Baptisms
25/10/1790 George MacKay, rather MacKenzie tennent in Crosple and Jean Done, Angus
15/11/1792 George MacKay alias MacKenzie ie Mackennichickenich (? son of Kenneth son of Kenneth) tennent in crosple and Jean Doun, Mary
13/08/1795 George MacKay alias MacKenzie little tennent in Crosple and Jean Morison alias Doun, Christian (all the Christian's in my family have been female).
15/01/1798 George MacKay alias MacKenzie in Crosple and Jean Doun alias Morison, Flora
22/02/1800 George MacKay alias MacKenzie in Crosple and Jean Doun alias Morison, Kenneth
11/03/1803 George MacKay alias MacKenzie in Crosple and Jean Doun alias Morison, Donald
24/12/1813 Angus MacKay MacKenzie, farm servant Knockbreak married Effy MacPherson, Durin
I also noted this entry, 04/02/1771 George Morison in Strathmore, Jean
Again sorry Ellen for the delay, hope this is helpful.
Andy :)
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Andy
Many thanks for these. Apologies for delay in replying, just back from hols today.
These confirm the info I have and gives me some new stuff too, brilliant.
Looks like we have a match then, as Flora Sutherland. daughter of John and Henriette is hubby's ggg grandmother. Flora married John MacKay or McHuestean in 1815 @ Durness and had John in 1818 and Isabella (hubby's gg grandmother) in 1821. Isabella married back into the Sutherland's, to Kenneth in 1846 @ Durness, and thats hubby's paternal line. His great grandfather (their son) moved from Durness down to Glasgow around late 1880's to join the police.
Sorry. looking back at my info I realise in my rush to post it before I went off on hols, I'd put Flora and John and Rachel down as potential children of John Sutherland and Barbara McKenzie in error. I did know they were the children of John and Henriette.
I'm off to analyse all of this now and see where it takes me. Many thanks again.
Ellen.
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Hi Ellen
Just some other details for you, entry for the 14 July 1789 John Sutherland from Thurso, weaver in Balamhulich and Henrietta MacLeod nin Nishmacean, Janet and Isobel
The thing to note in this entry is Henrietta's patronymic which I have been told means daughter of Kenneth son of John. This may not be 100% though!
Rachel Sutherland sister of Flora is my ancestor, she married a William Campbell in Durness on 28 Dec 1804. They had nine children, Katherine, Robert, John, Angusina, Henny, Anderson, Roderick, Johan and James.
Katherine Campbell had an son with John Falconer in 1836, Charles Falconer Campbell.
Charles Falconer Campbell married and Emma McDonald a nurse from Plymouth in 1877, Charles was at sea in the Merchant Navy for most of his life, he seems to have left Durness around 14 years old. Charles and Emma only had one child, William John Campbell born in 1879.
William John Campbell was my Great Grandfather.
If you would like any more details don't hesitate to contact me.
Andy
One other thing, Jean Morison's alias Doun is also an alias used by the Poet/Bard Rob Donn who lived in the same area in the 1700's. There is a book about his life called 'The World of Rob Donn' written by Ian Grimble and published I thinkl in about 1977 that you may be interested in?
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Thanks for this Andy. I'll get onto Amazon and see if I can get the book.
A couple of interesting points:
On Flora MacKay nee Sutherland's DC, her son John states that her dad, John Sutherland's occupation was "Ground Officer". Seems a bit of a move from a weaver, but with all the other anomalies we find, I guess its minor.
The youngest son of your Rachel Sutherland and William Campbell, James, appears next on the page of the OPR births after my hubby's gt gt grandfather Kenneth Sutherland. Kenneth showing as 9th Sept 1820 and James as 4th Jan 1821.
Regards
Ellen.
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Thanks so much Andy
I am tracing my family history and have a problem right in the middle.
Looking for children of John MacKay Oig (Smith) born c1747
Married once to Barbara?
Married again to Ann Calder in 1792
Ann left for Canada right after John died (about 1811) and took 6 children with her. I can only confirm one - Sophia MacKay and possibly William.
I am looking specifically for a child named Donald MacKay who would have been born after 1792 but before 1811 when I think John MacKay died.
I am told Ann was his mother but can find no record of his birth.
Thanks!!!
mckaysearcher ???
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Hi there,
Sorry have been unable to trace your Donald MacKay, don't know if you already have the following info but will post it anyway:-
01/11/1792 John MacKay smith in Eribol and Ann Calder daughter of William Calder, Charity Schoolmaster, Achugaraside
30/11/1776 William Calder, Charity Schoolmaster in Cambusinduin, John
23/09/1793 John MacKay, smith in Eribol from Borgie and Ann Calder, Christian
11/10/1794 John MacKay (from borgie, Tongue), smith in Eribol and Ann Calder, John
04/11/1796 John MacKay, blacksmith and Ann Calder in Eribol, Barbara
24/06/1807 John MacKay, smith in Eribol and Ann Calder, Jacobina
West Moine Mission Baptisms
22/04/1804 John MacKay, smith in Eribol and Ann Calder, Sophia
04/09/1805 John Mackay, Oig in Eribol, William
28/05/1808 John MacKay, smith at Eribol, Henrietta Amelia
16/06/1811 John MacKay, smith in Eribol and Ann Calder, Johanna Thompson
I found this web site that has a reference to your Sophia Mackay.
http://www.islandregister.com/mcleod4.html
Hope this is of some help.
Andy
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Thanks so much Andy. that was way more information than I had. Linda (searchmckay)
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I am currently looking for my husband's GGG grandfather, John MacCulloch, who was born about 1789, married Jean M. Brander in 1808 in Kingussie, and died there in either 1840 or 1850 (I have differing opinions from 2 sources). I think he could possibly be the son of Thomas MacCulloch & Margaret MacKay as many of names of brothers carry through to later generations. My info says that Thomas was born about 1755 (or 1759) and married Margaret MacKay 12/1778. There is also reference to his having 2 illegitimate children, George and Janet with another Margaret MacKay? This family evidently settled in Tarbat by Fearn eventually, and would account for our John having come from "north of Ft. George". I have also seen references to a John MacCulloch of Durness, married to Catherine MacKay. They also had a son, John, but the timing seems off.
Any help you can give me will be appreciated.
Lynn McCulloch
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Hi Lynn, this is everything I could find:-
THOMAS MACCULLOCK
30/12/1778 Thomas MacCullock, lately in Ceannabin, soldier in Duke of Gordon's Fencibles to Margaret MacKay, alias nin eanmacalisterroy in Uaighbeg.
(The alias I think is daughter of John son of Alistair)
17/12/1784 Thomas MacCullock in Ceannabin and Margaret MacKay, Ann Innes
09/01/1786 Thomas MacCullock, tenent in Island Choarie and Margaret MacKay, Barbara
01/01/1788 Thomas MacCullock, tenent in Island Choarie and Margaret MacKay, alias nin eanmacalister, Fairly Reay
28/08/1790 Thomas MacCullock, servant in Farout and Margaret MacKay, alias nin eanmacalister, Christian
13/08/1792 Thomas MacCullock, tenent and herdsman in Farout and Margaret MacKay, John
05/10/1792 Thomas MacCullock, tenent in Farout and Margaret MacKay, a single woman alias nin Dholicye, George NBLW
11/10/1794 Thomas MacCullock, tenent and herdsman in Farout and Margaret MacKay, James
23/12/1796 Thomas MacCullock, herdsman in Farout and Margaret MacKay, Christian
04/05/1799 Thomas MacCullock, Achins of Cnocbreac and Margaret MacKay, Donald
22/02/1802 Thomas MacCullock in balamhulich and Margaret MacKay, Donald
26/06/1802 Thomas MacCullock in Balamhulich and Margaret MacKay, alias nin
Dolicye, guilty of a relapse [n.b.l.w.], Janet
Marriage
29/02/1812 William Wood, Shepherd, Dalvichie, parish of Lairg and Ann MacCullock daughter of Thomas MacCullock, Balamhulich
Could not find the birth of Margaret MacKay but I think these are some of her siblings:-
15/08/1765 John MacKay, alias Macalisterroy in Uaibeg, Hugh
13/05/1770 John MacKay, alias Macalisterroy in Uaibeg, Alexander
31/01/1774 John MacKay, alias Macalisterroy in Uaibeg, Marion
26/07/1775 John MacKay, alias Macalisterroy in Uaibeg, Wilhelmina
JOHN MACCULLOCK
30/10/1783 John MacCullock weaver at Ceannabin and lat N.F. to Catherine
MacKay, alias nin Robmacuilammacneil in Uaibeg
(daughter of Robert son of William son of Neil)
18/09/1785 John MacCullock weaver in Uaibeg and Catherine MacKay, John
11/08/1788 John MacCullock weaver in Uaibeg and Catherine MacKay, James
02/10/1791 John MacCullock weaver in Uaibeg and Katherine MacKay, Angus
04/08/1795 John MacCullock weaver and tenent in Balamhulich and presently
a soldier in the Reay Fencibles and Catherine MacKay alias
Robmacenicuilammacneil, Christian
Catherine MacKay's parents, I belive were Robert MacKay and Janet Murray.
Hope this helps.
Andy
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Thanks Andy,
This confirms what I was seeing. Appreciate the translation of "nin ..." I guessed it was to do with mom's pedigree. What do you think "Dolicye" means when referring to the other Margaret MacKay? Also, I saw much later baptisms for a Donald (8/31/1831), Christian (12/6/1827), Mary (2/5/1826), Margaret (6/10/1834), and William (5/14/1838) in Tarbat by Fearn. The parents are listed as Thomas MacCulloch & Margaret MacKay. What do you think this could mean - a second baptism perhaps?
Also, do you know where Cennabin or Cnocbreac or Balamhulich are located? I did see Island Choarie.
Very excited to return to Scotland and explore this area. Saw a lot of the highlands, but not that far north.
Lynn
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I have a copy of the parish register for Durness for Baptisms and Marriages from 1764-1814. If anyone would like me to do a lookup I would be more than happy to.
All the best
Andy
My gg grandfather Donald Mckay (b about 1799) emigrated from the Isle of Muck to Lake Ainslie Nova Scotia about 1824. He married Jessie MacDonald, b about 1807. We belkieve his father may have been John McKay of Durness who married Mary Campbell. I have all the ancestry from Donald to the present. Do you think you could help?
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hi mckayg
This was all the info I could find :-
03/06/1788 John MacKay alias MacDholicustian tenent in Portchamil and Mary Campbell, William
15/02/1790 John MacKay Boveman in Balnaceil and Mary Campbell, Flora
08/05/1792 John MacKay Boveman in Balnaceil and Mary Campbell, Hugh
12/03/1797 John MacKay alias Macholicustian a farmer in Sartigrim and Mary Campbell, Marion
21/09/1799 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian a wright and farmer in Sartigrim and Mary Campbell, Donald
23/10/1802 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian a little tenent and Mary Campbell, Christian
02/10/1804 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian farmer in Sangobeg and Mary Campbell, Isobel
25/03/1806 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian farmer in Sangobeg and Mary Campbell, Janet
21/03/1807 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian little farmer in Cnocbreac and Mary Campbell, Mackay Donald
07/01/1809 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian in Cnocbreac and Mary Campbell, Ann
19/09/1811 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian in Cnocbreac and Mary Campbell, Alexander
Sorry could not find birth of John or Mary but I think Johns alias means son of Donald son of Christian, hope this helps.
Andy
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Andy thanks for the reply. Unfortunately the dates don't match. Would you have any information on Donald McKay (or MacKay) born about 1799 who apparently emigrated from the Isle of Muck to East Lake Ainslie, Cape Breton (now part of Nova Scotia) about 1824. He married Jessie MacDonald of the Isle of Mull, daughter of Alexander MacDonald and Mary McLean who also emigrated to Capr Breton. Any help is most appreciated. Thanks, Gord
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Isn't The Donald MacKay baptised 21/09/1799 your one then?
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Sorry Andy. It seems I mis-read the information (new to this stuff). This could be it! Do I read this correctly by assuming all on this with the same alias of siblings (same parents)? In other words the alias Balnaceil is another family? Also I haven't been able to locate Sartigrim. Do you know where that is by any chance? The same alias seems to be from different locations (Sartigrim, Sangobeg and Cnocbreac). Am I correct there. Really appreciate your help. I hit the perverbable brick wall a few months ago.
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hi mckayg
This was all the info I could find :-
03/06/1788 John MacKay alias MacDholicustian tenent in Portchamil and Mary Campbell, William
15/02/1790 John MacKay Boveman in Balnaceil and Mary Campbell, Flora .... snip....
07/01/1809 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian in Cnocbreac and Mary Campbell, Ann
19/09/1811 John MacKay alias Macdholicustian in Cnocbreac and Mary Campbell, Alexander
Sorry could not find birth of John or Mary but I think Johns alias means son of Donald son of Christian, hope this helps.
Andy
Hello Andy,
the above Flora belongs to my line. Could you please confim your last entry above? - I had been told that the family were now in Durin for the 1811 baptism of Alexander (the family arriving in Durin is crucial to my acceptance of this John McKay as my Flora's father who is listed as John McKay, Miller, Durin at her marriage)
ChristineR
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Mckayg,
I have just found this messageboard this afternoon. Co-incidence. Balnaceil is 3 miles west of Durness, so I've read elsewhere. Andy has posted in the following format - Date of baptism, Fathers name (including alias if one recorded) Occupation if recorded and place of residence, mothers name, child's name. A Boveman is some type of farmer, it has been explained to me but I cant quite remember. John McKay and Mary Campbell are my husband's 5th great grandparents.
Christine
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Hi All
Its seems as if I have mis-read the last baptism for John MacKay and Mary Campbell, it should read:-
16/09/1811 John MacKay alias Macdholichuistian, Durin and Mary Campbell, Alexander
Sorry about the mistake, accidentally compied the details from the previous baptism of Ann. I think I also have the family of one of John MacKay's brothers if anyone would like this posted please let me know.
Andy
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Thanks Andy, :)
huge relief! And yes, Mckayg and I have made contact with each other to exchange info. Thanks for your kind help with the baptisms.
Christine
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Hi Christine
Glad to help and pleased to hear Mckayg and yourself have made contact with each other. Will post info later on suspected siblings of John MacKay.
Andy
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Thanks Andy
I'm going to order the Durness film into my local LDS centre, so I'll eventually get to fish the likely suspects out that aren't covered by your book. All information gratefully received.
Christine
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Hi Andy my name is Jon
the usual i am afraid got to a blockage in my tree
I got as far as James Mackay marrying Mary Mackay on 27 Jun 1834 with children Mackay Mackay,Ann Margaret and Andrew all in Durness
can you help me
regards
jon
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sorry thats 2 girls ann and margaret missed coma
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Hi Jon
Will try and have a look at this tomorrow for you. Will post anything I find tomorrow evening.
Andy
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many thanks
regards
jon
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Hi Jon
Have found a number of possibilities from the Durness register for both your James MacKay and Mary MacKay, do you have any idea of the year of thier births. Possibly from any census info you may have on them?
Andy
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hi andy
sorry no idea of dob cant find census for that period, you have all i know
regards
jon
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hi andy
here is some more
mary was born in 1813 daughter to john McKay tenant saingomore, whatever that is. and james McKay had alias of McAndrew
does that help
regards
jon
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Hi Jon
This could help, I will let you know.
Andy
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Hi Jon
Sorry about the delay I have just bought a new house and have had to spend time doing some renovations.
I have found some info for you but will have to collate it together and will post it tomorrow night after more work on the house. Just to let you know though that there was only one Andrew MacKay listed in the whole of the register so I am fairly confident I have the right one.
Will speak to you tomorrow.
Andy
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Hi Jon
Finally have some info for you.
JAMES MACKAY
Could not trace the birth of James MacKay alias McAndrew (son of Andrew) unfortunately but there was only one Andrew MacKay in Durness at this time.
27/01/1800 Johanna, Daughter of Andrew MacKay soldier in R.F. in Ireland from the parish of Reay and Margaret Sutherland in Crospie
24/09/1803 Mackay Thomson, Son of Andrew MacKay and Margaret Sutherland.
08/01/1806 William, son of Andrew MacKay late R.F. now shoemaker in Saingo and Margaret Sutherland.
Can't explain why James isn't listed unless the family started to attend a non-conformist church after 1806?
Sutherland MI's lists James MacKay died in Lerinmore 13/01/1869 aged 59 with wife Mary MacKay died 28/01/1892 aged 80. Buried in Balnakeil Church, Durness.
MARGARET SUTHERLAND
Margaret was the daughter of John Sutherland and Jean Fraser and was baptised 26/05/1771. Other siblings as follows:-
05/01/1766 Mary
05/11/1768 Janet
18/06/1775 Robert
28/05/1779 Christian
08/05/1781 John
The following marriage extract was also found:-
11/09/1792 William MacKay alias courdach, pensioner of chelsea college in crospie and Jean Fraser widow in Crospie of John Sutherland.
MARY MACKAY
10/01/1812 Mary, daughter of John MacKay and Ann Murray
12/05/1814 Edward, son of John MacKay and Ann Murray
22/03/1811 John MacKay weaver alias Macnishmaccustianmacrory in saingomore married Ann Murray, widow of Edward Morrison, saingobeg
John's alias probably reads son of Kenneth son of Christian son of Rory
ANN MURRAY
Ann's previous marriage is as follows:-
17/08/1805 Edward Morrison, ceannabin enlisted in Royal Army of Defence married Ann Murray in saingomore
09/12/1806 Johanna, daughter of Edward Morrison and Ann Murray.
Ann was the daughter of a Hugh Murray and Christian Down.
Marriage extract:-
14/11/1773 Hugh Murray boatman and little tennant in Lubain, Strathmore married Christian Down
Children:-
28/08/1778 Ann
09/08/1774 Francis
27/09/1775 Isobel
09/10/1781 Robert
All the children were born in Rispond
On the 24/02/1792 Christian remarried after becoming a widow. She married a John Morrison who was a Joiner in Durin.
ISOBEL MURRAY (ANN'S SISTER)
12/03/1796 John Morison sailor aboard the "FAIRLY OF RISPOND" from lewes married Isobel Murray daughter of Hugh Murray late mate of the "FAIRLY"
Children:-
02/07/1798 Hugh
26/03/1801 Charles
19/09/1803 Ann (John was now a sailor on the "MACKAY OF RISPOND)
23/11/1805 Norman
ROBERT MURRAY (ANN'S BROTHER)
14/12/1804 Robert Murray volunteer a young lad in saingomore married Katherine Morison in Rispond (from Lewes)
Children:-
13/11/1805 Ann
28/06/1808 Edward Morison Murray
19/10/1810 Hugh (family had now moved to Saingobeg)
09/05/1813 Donald
Hope this makes sense Jon and good luck in the future.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
This is swell of you! I'm looking for more info about a John MacLeod b. about 1760, who married a Mary MacPherson and emigrated to PEI, Canada. Their son Hugh was born in Durness August 1, 1795. Thanks so much for the offer.
"Brinnell" :D
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Hi Andy that is absolutely fantastic. sorry about slow reply beeen at sea for a couple of weeks the boss wants to use his yacht
best regards
jon ;D
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Hi Brinnell
Marriage
08/12/1789 John MacLeod, tennant in Islandhall and Mary Macpherson in Saingo
Children
30/12/1790 John MacLeod, tennant in Islandhall and Mary Macpherson, Christian
12/06/1793 John MacLeod, tennant in Islandhall and Mary Macpherson, Isobel
12/08/1795 John Sutherland, tennant in Islandhall and Mary Macpherson, Hugh
(Cannot account for the name change here. Maybe a transcription error? This is the only entry that has any resemblance to your Hugh)
17/10/1798 John MacLeod, farmer and boatman in Ceannabin and Mary Macpherson, Christian (? previous Christian may have died)
27/07/1801 John MacLeod in Ceannabin and Mary Macpherson, Donald
10/05/1804 John MacLeod, little farmer and fisher in Ceannabin and Mary Macpherson, Andrew.
As the register only starts from 1764 I am unable to trace John Macleod's birth in 1760.
Sorry this is all I could get. Hope it helps
Andy
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Hi Michael
To start with William MacKay and Johanna Munro:-
There marriage is the first entry in the register for 1791, unfortunately it is right at the bottom of the page and some of it is missing, but it reads:-
William MacKay, alias MackReiry, tennat in the Heights of Erriboll and Johanna Munro
Cannot see where Johanna is from or the date of the marriage.
Children
06/05/1792 William MacKay, alias Macrery, a little tennant in Eribol and Johanna Munro, Janet
21/07/1793 William MacKay, alias Macrery, a little tennant in Eribol and Johanna Munro, James
24/12/1794 William MacKay, alias Macryrie, in Eribol and Johanna Munro, Ann
Cannot seem to find them after this time, and could find no trace of the second Williams birth circa 1801, they may have started going to a non-conformist church?
JOHANNA MUNRO
14/05/1775 Anguis Munro in Hope, Joanna
Siblings
14/11/1764 Angus Munro in Eribol, Catherine
14/07/1765 Angus Munro Macdhonilicorachy in Eribol, Marion
14/08/1768 Angus Munro Macdhonilicorachy in Eribol, Isabella
15/03/1771 Angus Munro in Eribol, Hugh
I am pretty sure that Angus's alias starts with son of Donald but not sure of the rest.
DONALD MACKAY
Donald MacKay first married a Elisabeth Mackintosh entry as follows:-
14/04/1778 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish, in Batlamhish and Elisabeth Mackintosh, alias nin Hustian Macnishmaceniconil, in Arnoboll
Children
30/08/1779 Donald MacKay, alias Macrob macEmish macuilamskerray a young man in Arnoboll and Elisabeth Mackintosh alias nin hustian macnish, Angus
30/03/1782 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish in Arnoboll and Elisabeth Mackintosh alias nin hustianmacnish, Mary
Angus MacKay b 1779 married a Barbara MacKay on 26/12/1806
2nd Marriage
10/02/1795 Donald MacKay, widower in Hope and Janet MacLeod in Lettermore
Children
01/12/1799 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish in Hope and .......... MacLeod from Lettermore, Elisabeth
21/06/1802 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish in Hope and .......... MacLeod from Lettermore, Robert
30/05/1807 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish in Hope and .......... MacLeod from Lettermore, Donald
12/03/1810 Donald MacKay, alias Macrob in Hope, Alexr
17/05/1813 Donald MacKay, alias Macrob in Hope and Janet MacLeod , Jannet
There was also another Elisabeth baptised 02/12/1796 in Hope (probably died in infancy)
JANET MACLEOD
If Janet MacLeod was also from Durness, not sure where Lettermore is, then she if more than likely to be the daughter of Neil MacLeod as this seems to be the only Janet MacLeod born in the right time period.
21/02/1775 Neil MacLeod in saingo, Janet
Siblings
02/1772 Neil MacLeod in Saingo, Isobel
20/07/1777 Neil MacLeod alias Macnishmacen tennant in Durin, Angus
30/11/1780 Neil MacLeod alias Macnish Macean, tenent in Durin and Jane Campbell alias nin nish, Alexander
Angus MacLeod born 1777 married Janet Ross on 10/02/1799
Neil MacLeod's father was Kenneth MacLeod. Kenneth MacLeod also Had a daughter Henrietta who is my 5th Great Grandmother.
Hope this helps Michael.
Andy
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Never heard back from Michael or Brinnell. Did we get the right info?
Andy
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I have a copy of the parish register for Durness for Baptisms and Marriages from 1764-1814. If anyone would like me to do a lookup I would be more than happy to.
All the best
Andy
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Hello Andy
Thank you for your posting.
I am searching for the birth of Lieut. Donald Mackay, son of John, son of Donald, son of William oig.
Donald married Isobel Mackay, daughter of John of Borley, son of Donald, son of George on 7 May 1793
An estimate of his birth date is around 1765which makes it a marginal finding date.
Donald NZ
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Hi Andy,
You’re doing a great job here!
Could you please have a look for the marriage of Hector Mackay & Janet McIntosh in 1794.
Thanks,
James
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Andy/Michael
Re Angus MacLeod b. 1777 who married Janet Ross.
I have the details of his monumental inscription in Balnakeil Churchyard (1mile west of Durness on A838).
Its a table stone and has on it:
Merran Ross d. Achigorn 29.7.1788, 29yrs.
Angus McLeod d. Sangobeg 10.6.1848, 71yrs
w. Janet Ross 1866, 92yrs
Also have Henrietta's, his aunt, (my husband's 4 x great grandmother), who married John Sutherland.
Henrietta McLeod d.Sano 7.3.1837, 87yrs, H John Sutherland
daughter Flora 29.10.1877, 86yrs, H John MacKay.
Flora is hubby's 3 x great grandmother.
These are from the Sutherland (county, not surname!) Monumental Inscriptions pre 1855 book. There are lots of post 1855 MI's also in it.
I am happy to do any look ups anyone would like from it.
I also have the index to the 1851 Durness census if anyone is interested.
Regards
Ellen.
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Hi Guys
Will get back to you ASAP with any results I find.
Andy
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Hello,
I was hoping you could help with my dead end I have reached.
Would you have any info on,
John Paterson, born 1801? who married Elizabeth Douglas born 1806.
They had 3 children that I know of - Anthony Paterson, George Paterson and John William Paterson.
They were farming in the Sutherland area.
What I am looking for would be anything older than that and if there were more children.
Hope you can help, thanks.
-
Michael
IGI shows another couple of children in addition to Anthony:
1. HELEN PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 07 JUN 1835 Eddrachillis, Sutherland, Scotland
2. JANET PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 07 OCT 1833 Eddrachillis, Sutherland, Scotland
3. ANTHONY PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 MAY 1839 Eddrachillis, Sutherland, Scotland
Don't see any sing of any of the family on the 1881 census in Sutherland.
There's one Peter Paterson and family. He's born Eddrichillis 1838, so in the right time frame to belong to the family. He's living in Thurso with his family.
Dwelling: Durness St
Census Place: Thurso, Caithness, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203402 GRO Ref Volume 041 EnumDist 5 Page 22
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Peter PATERSON M 43 M Eddrichillis, Sutherland, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Coachman
Ann PATERSON M 40 F Huntly, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Hellen PATERSON 12 F Cossie, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
James PATERSON 9 M Thurso, Caithness, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Jesse A. PATERSON 7 F Thurso, Caithness, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Peter PATERSON 3 M Thurso, Caithness, Scotland
Rel: Son
Ann PATERSON 1 F Thurso, Caithness, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Hope this is of some help.
Regards
Ellen.
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Hi James
The closest I got to a marriage between Hector and Jean was:-
29/11/1794 Hector MacKay from Badnahachlash to Jean MacKintosh in Mussel
Then a baptism
06/12/1795 Hector MacKay and Janet MacKintosh in Badnahachlash, John
Also
17/05/1778 John MacKintosh alias Maceanmacalistericemish, Junior a very little tennant and post in Balamhulich, Janet.
Do have some other children for this John Mackintosh who was married to Isobel Murray, if you want me to post them.
Hope this helps.
Andy
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Hi Donald
I have the marriage of Donald MacKay and Isobel MacKay, it reads:-
07/05/1793 Donald MacKay alias Maceanmacuilamoig, Chelsea pensioner in Strathmelness to Isobel MacKay daughter of John MacKay Tacksman in Borley.
but intrigingly I also have the following marriage:-
12/09/1801 Lietenant Donald MacKay alias Macaenicolinilamoig late in Strathmelness in Clasneach to Miss Sybella Thomson daughter of Mr John Thomson minister of Durness and Mrs Christian MacKenzie his wife.
Do you know if Donald married more than once or am I on the wrong track. If this is the real Donald then there was also another marriage before Isobel. Have some info on John MacKay of Borley and quite a bit on John Thomson the minister of Durness.
Let me know what you would like me to post.
Andy
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Thank you Andy,
Hector and Janet should have had at least three other children;
Angus b.1803
Effy b. 1805
Barbara b.1813
If you happen to come across them some time then please let me know.
I would also be grateful for the MacIntosh info.
Thanks again,
James
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Hi James
I am away working the rest of this week but will post the other details next weekend.
Andy
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Hello Andy,
Would you be so kind as to see if you can get any info on:
Duncan Campbell marries Margaret McIntyre 16/02/1833 Durness.
I have five children, one of which - Donald Campbell b1837 Durness, we believe is "ours"
Many thanks in advance,
Phil
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Hi Phil
I have checked the register for any of your ancestors but have been unable to locate any as the register only goes up to 1813.
Sorry and I wish you every success in your hunt.
Andy
-
The LDS have this film in their catalogue - Andy means his transcriptions only go so far. ;D You can get this film in through your nearest family history centre, if you cannot get to Edinburgh.
Durness Parish Registers
Microfilm of O.P.R. ms. no. 48 in the New Register House, Edinburgh.
Contents: v. 1. Baptisms, 1764-1820, marriages, 1765-1820.--v. 2. Baptisms, 1820-1846, marriages, 1820-1854.
ChristineR
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I recently picked up on the exchange 29 June re Donald Mackay.
Donald was my g g grandfather. I am intrigued by one bit of information and that is the marriage of Angus to Barbara. Do you have any firm link to the Angus born to Donald and Elizabeth. The name structure in the register helps but there were a lot of Donald Mackays in Durness.
Janet from Lettermore is probably not from the family you list. Lettermore is south of Tongue below Ben Loyal and to the east of it.
I would appreciate any confirmation you can give.
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Hi iangale
Can you let me know exactally what it is you want me to check out. I was a bit confused with you last post.
Andy
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I was looking for confirmation of the dob of Angus Mackay who married 26/12/1806. I did not find that info and wondered where you had picked it up from.
Regards
-
Hi
30/08/1779 Donald MacKay, alias Macrob macEmish macuilamskerray a young man in Arnoboll and Elisabeth Mackintosh alias nin hustian macnish, Angus
Is this what you were after, extracted from the Durness Parish Register.
Andy
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hi andy
thanks for previous info, you said andrew mackay was in RF what is that and serving in ireland, have you anymore details on that please
regards
jon
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Hi Jon
The RF refers to the following:-
The Reay Fencibles
Raised in 1794 by George MacKay of Bighouse.
Strength of 800 men, of whom 700 had "Mac" prefixed to their names.
The uniform was Highland, with light blue facings, and silver lace, the officers' loops being in pairs. The tartan was MacKay, but of a lighter shade than is worn today. Officers and sergeants wore sporrans with six white tassels with silver 'bells'. The rank and file wore goatskin sporrans, with black tassels and white metal 'bells', and with plain white metal tops. Drummers wore 'reversed colours' - light blue jackets with red facings, with lac on the sleeves and down the back.
Embodied at Fort George in 1795.
Served in Ireland during the rebellion.
A Military Band was formed in 1800, wore white jackets faced light blue.
Disbanded in 1802.
1798 - Reay Fencibles fought at the Battle of Tara Hill, near Dublin
Cheers
Andy
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Hi Everyone
Just a reminder to let anyone out there researching in Durness know, I am happy to help with your research in the Durness Parish Register. Havent had any posts on this topic since September so I thought I would remind you all.
Cheers
Andy
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Andy,
here's one for you to work on thanks. Interested in what you can find out about this family. My John McMILLAN in Australia named one of his children Gillespie Ranken.
GILLESPIE RANKEN OR MC LEOD
Christening: 15 APR 1819 Durness, Sutherland, Scotland
Parents: Father: ANGUS RANKEN
Mother: ELSPAT MC LEOD
Christine
Australia
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Andy,
Many thanks for your efforts.
Any idea why there are so many Campbells in Durness? I thought the Campbell heartlands were in the south west of Scotland. Also, where they involved in the Highland Clearances? If so, on what side?
Any help greatfully received.
Cheers,
Phil
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HI everyone
Have got to go away to work for a few days but will look into the last two posts once I get back.
Hope this is okay.
Andy
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Hi Christine
Have looked and looked through the register and through the Sutherland MI's but have been unable to trace any Angus Ranken or Elspat MacLeod. If you have any additional information that might help I will happily search through again.
Sorry for the delay and the disappointing news.
Andy
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Thanks Andy,
as always, your efforts are much appreciated, even negative results are results ;D I think this lot were blow ins like my McMillan family.
regards
Christine
Australia
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Andy
I am looking for John Gunn who married a Margaret McA??They were the parents of John Gunn married in Durness in 1851 died Durness 1894. He married Elizabeth, Betsy, Bessie, Bessy Gunn same surname before and after marriage. Bessie was born in Eddrachillis don't know when, died Durness 1892
Any help would be appreciated.
they were my great grandparents and great great grandparents.
Wini
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Hello Andy
I am impressed with the number of persons you have already assisted with Durness look ups, and now hope you can do one for me.
The persons are; Alexander Morrison, this is all I know of him and I do not know who he married, I assume he married around the pre 1791 period.
He had two sons, Donald and George, plus probably other family.
Son: Donald Morrison, born about 1792, Durness, married Marion Mackay on 14 Sept 1813
Marian’s parents were George Mackay born Port Chamil, abt. 1747 and Margaret Mackay, born at Hunleam, abt. 1761, they were married at Durness on 17 Dec. 1777
Son: George Morrison, born about 1796, married Barbara Calder, George may have been born in Arnaboll.
Any onfo on them, most appreciated.
Best wishes
Donald NZ
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re: searching for the birth of Lieut. Donald Mackay, son of John, son of Donald, son of William oig.
Donald married Isobel Mackay, daughter of John of Borley, son of Donald, son of George on 7 May 1793
An estimate of his birth date is around 1765which makes it a marginal finding date.
Hello Andy
Re; your posting: Wednesday 10 August
My full apologies for being unable to get straight back to you
Thank you for the info and you have the right Donald on those two marriages. However I am unaware of Donald having any other marriages. What I have been trying to prove is a DOB for him
I do not have a DOB of his wife Sybella Thomson, but have a Christening for her of 28 SEP 1777 at Durness, Sutherland, Scotland
I have not yet started on Sybella’s parents Rev John Thomson and Christian Mackenzie, so any info you wish to provide will be most appreciated.
Relating to John of Borley. I have an approximate 1749 marriage to wife Marian Mackay, born abt. 1729, daughter of Donald Mackay of Clashneach and Barbara Sutherland.
This Donald Mackay of Clashneach has been a problem for me over a very long time, although he has been mentioned in several historical books his history and in particular his second marriage to Mary, daughter of John of Musal or Clashneach and Catherine Mackay of Melness, is most vague.
Re: John of Borley and wife Marian. Their first born on 28/5/1771 was a son named Donald. As the next son born on 12/6/1775 was also named Donald. it is probable the first Donald born died before he was four years old. The second Donald was later known as Donald of Sheigra.
The Durness Parish Register at the time of daughter Mary's birth, gives John's alias as "Mac dhol ic orish skerry", confirming his lineage as son of Donald, son of George of Skerray. George being the youngest son of Hector and Barbara.
I have established five children to John and Marian, being; Donald, Isabel, Donald, Ann and Mary, with their birth dates recorded in the "Durness Parish Register", In each instance, the parent has been described as John Mackay in Borley. There is no mention of John's wife.
Andy; your mention of “Let me know what you would like me to post”. Any information you can add to the above would be great.
Extra special Best Wishes to you, particularly for the way you have assisted so many persons throughout the year.
Donald NZ
-
Hello,
I was hoping you could help with my dead end I have reached.
Would you have any info on,
John Paterson, born 1801? who married Elizabeth Douglas born 1806.
They had 3 children that I know of - Anthony Paterson, George Paterson and John William Paterson.
They were farming in the Sutherland area.
What I am looking for would be anything older than that and if there were more children.
Hope you can help, thanks.
-
Hi Michael. re John Paterson who Married Elizabeth Douglas...
John,b13Dec1800@Beanley Eglingham, Northumberland[Eng]married 9 nov 1827 to ElizabethDouglas ch21Jan1806at Thurso Caithness[second child of George Doughlas & Elizabeth McIntosh]They emigrated to NZon the Robert Henderson in1862..farmed at Otepopo-now Herbert. John d-23May1877; Eliz.d-31Aug 1884.
Family-1-Janet-b1828; 2-Isabella[Elizabeth]b1830.at Durness.d1902,NZ; 3-Jane ch1833Farr,Caithness..b7Spt '33@Achinah; 4-Anthony b28April'39,@Durness,d NZ; 5-JohnWilliam b-c1842,Durness, d-NZ; George -b1843,Durness ,dNZ; 7 Helen.
i'm,des.from George.
Johns father-- Anthony b22 March1775 atOxnam-Mains m Jane Grecian,[d of James Grecian & Eleanor Steel]on11May1796. He died 18Jan1856 at Kennachy. He wasa shepherd.JANE b-8 April1886at Glanton,Northumberland; d-5 Aug 1842 at Kennachy.ch--1-Jamesb-25Aug, 1796 Beanly[emigr. to Australia] 2- Andrew,b-30 June 1798 Beanly ;Northumberland,3-John b13 Dec Beanly[mEliz Douglas] 4- Eleanor b 19 Sept 1803 Shipley, 5-Michael b 18Dec 1805, Beanly; 6-Jane b 2Nov 1810 Beanly; 7-Thomas b c15Oct1815 at Farr; 8-Mary b 29April1809 Beanly.
Anthony's dad-James, b at Mosshouses, ch-23Oct 1746 at Melrose; m Ann Hall [d of Anthony Hall & Isobel Michelson ]
Ann ch - 10 May1747 st Scotland. Anthony d-Sept 1815 Sandiestanes buried Ancrum Roxborough.
children-1Thomas b11 June 1771; 2-Anthony-3-John b 19June1779 OxnamMains .
father of James was Thomas born Scotland m Janet Paterson 2 Nov 1745 at Melrose Caithness.children-1-Jamesb1746 ; 2-Janet ch2May1749;3-Thomas ch 21Aug 1751; 4-Margaret ch 8Dec 1755; 7-Agnes-ch7 Nov 1758.
Father of Thomas was James who married Margaret?? It is not known if there were chidren other than Thomas. Cheers!!
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Hello Andy
On looking back through James posting # 40 4 Aug 05
Your Reply # 45
and James Reply # 47
What is most interesting with this one is that in the 1841 census, it shows:
Hector Mackay, Head, born abt 1766
Janet Mackay, Wife, born abt 1781
John Mackay, son in law, born abt 1796
Margaret Mackay, daughter, born abt 1801
Effy Mackay, daughter, born abt. 1806
That in your reply #45, you listed a baptism of John 6/12/1795 to Hector MacKay and Janet MacKintosh. The interesting aspect being that they had in the 1841 census a son in law of the same first name and approximate age of their son.
Were there any patronymics associated with any of the names you mentioned in your Reply #45?
Also; would any of the other family members mentioned in the above census have a christening that mentions patronymics?
With luck there could be some helpful information available to James through patronymics, particularly if three generations were involved.
I seem to recollect there being a Hugh Mackay of Badnahachlash, son of a John Mackay of Melness, This Hugh would have been of a similar age to Hector, could they have been brother’s?
Best New Year wishes to you Andy
Donald NZ
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Hi Andy
I am very impressed in the information you have already been so kind to give others in this forum. I have just found this forum this evening.
I am interested in what information the DPR has on the DINGWALL family of Durness.
Niel Dingwall, son of Alexander Dingwall and Christian MacKay. Niel married Merran McLeod in Durness in 1827. Anything on his siblings, parents and anything else would be very helpful.
Thanks
Jeni, Aotearoa/New Zealand :)
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Andy old chap,
I need a second opinion and wonder if you could do me a favour and look up the first entry for 1803, it reads;
Hector McKay, Strathan and Janet McIntosh, his wife had a son baptizes Jan. 1803 named ???? (It should be Angus but this is where I need your help as my copy has a bit of a smudge on it right in this place). Hope things are well with you.
Best Regards,
James Mackay
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Jeni
Neil Dingwall b. 18 Dec 1800 at Clashneach, Durness Sutherland. I believe his father, Alexander b. c1765 at Clyne, Sutherland to be a brother of my husband's 4 x great grandmother Isabella Dingwall b. c 1760 at Clyne.
Isabella married Hugh MacKay of Uiabeg, Durness on 12 Dec 1788 at Durness.
I'm afraid I don't yet know Alexander and Isabella's parents, and have not 100% confirmed that they are siblings.
Neil's siblings I have as:
Dollie 10 Sep 1803 @ Cnocbreac, Durness
Marion 30 Dec 1805 @ Cnocbreac, Durness
Hugh 07 June 1808 @ Cnocbreac, Durness
Alexander 26 Sept 1810 @ Cnocbreac, Durness
I take it you already know that Neil died 19 Nov 1883 @ Sangobeg, Durness and Marion on 21 Jan 1881 @ Sangobeg.
Regards
Ellen.
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Hi Ellen
Thanks for this information. I found the Dingwalls in Durness and hadn't worked out where they came from to there. There appears to be only the one family of Dingwall in Durness. Thanks for your information.
Niel DINGWALL's daughter Kennethina, or Kennina, married my great uncle Donald ROSS 11 December 1872 in Lairg, Sutherland. Donald is buried in the Lairg Cemetery with his parents and no sign of Kennethina...I will need to search further for her burial. I haven't done this yet.
This is where my interest in this family starts.
Jeni
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Hi All
Sorry for the delay in responding to your research requests, I have been away working for a large part od December and January and have only just picked up these posts. Will start looking into them this week end and should hopefully have replys for you all by next weekend.
Again sorry for the delay.
Andy
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Thank you, Thank you, Andy,
You can't imagine how much you have been missed
wini
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Thanks Andy
I look forward to hearing from you.
Jeni, Aotearoa/New Zealand
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Hi All
Just a quick one for James MacKay, I have checked the Register and as you suspected the name is Angus in the Durness Register. Hope this helps.
Andy
PS will post other details tomorrow for the research requests for everyone else.
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Hi Donald NZ
Have some good news for you, have found your Alexander Morrison.
07/06/1785 Alexander Morison alias Macdhoilroy, dalnaduin in Strathmore to Marion MacKintosh (in Arnoboll) alias nin Hustianmacnishiceniconil.
I think Alexander's alias is son of Donald son of Roy and part of Marions is daughter of Christian son of Kenneth son of John or Iain. I am not an expert in partronymics though son this may not be correct.
Their children are:-
17/09/1786 Alexander Morison alias Macdhonilroy in Arnoboll and Marion MacKay alias nin Hustianmacnish, Grizel
18/03/1788 Alexander Morison alias Macdhonilroy in Arnoboll and Marion MacKintosh alias nin Hustianmacnish, Hugh
26/02/1792 Alexander Morison alias Macdhonilroy tenent in Arnoboll and Marion MacKay alias nin Hustianmacnish, Donald
26/08/1794 Alexander Morison Arnoboll and his wife Marion M'Intosh had a child baptised, John
The following could possibly be Alexander's brother, sister in law and nephew:-
16/05/1790 Angus Morison alias Macdhonilroy, tenent at Dun Dorniceill, Strathmore and Janet Morison from Eddrachillis, Donald
Also found the following entries for Donald Morison:-
14/09/1813 Donald Morison a young lad from Strathmore and Marion MacKay, Hunleam married 14/09/1813. Also baptised child the same day, Margaret
03/11/1814 Donald Morison, Hunleam and Merran MacKay, George.
Hope this helps Donald,
All the best
Andy
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Hi Jeni
I dont have much more information than you already have nut did notice the following entry:-
16/10/1787 Alexander Dingwall, a single man in Craigiemhulin and Mary Sutherland in Crospie, a single woman (N.B.L.W), Alexander
This could be your Alexander sowing his oats ten years before marrying Christian?
Christian's Parents and her baptism:-
13/06/1770 Robert MacKay alias MaceanvicuilamMacneil in Uaibeg to Marion Clarke in Cnocbreac
05/11/1773 Robert MacKay alias Maceanvicuilammacneil in Uaibeg, Christian
Roberts alias reads I think, son of John/Iain son of William son of Neil
Good luck Jeni
Andy
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Hi Julina
Having trouble locating any person called Paterson in Durness, I do have some MI's with the name Paterson but none of them seem to tie in with your family. Let me know if you want me to post them anyway?
Andy
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Hi Wini
Sorry still no good news as far as the Gunn family goes, but I will keep looking and if I happen across John Gunn or Margaret I will post it straight away.
I did find the following, but it seems that it maybe to early to be your John?
31/08/1779 Angus Gunn weaver in Saingo and Joanna MacLeod, John
This was the only John Gunn that I could find in the DPR though.
Andy
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Hi Donald
Can you let me know, did you want me to post all the info for Lieut Donald MacKay and Rev John Thomson?
No problem if you do, I already have it on paper so it wont take a few minutes to type up.
Cheers
Andy
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Hi James
Sorry I was supposed to post you the information I had on your MacIntosh family a while ago. Donald reminded me with post in January this year. I wiil go back over our previous posts and find out what I was going to send you.
Sorry about that.
Andy
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Hi Andy
Thanks for that information. :) I don't have anything on this Alexander excepting that he was Niel's father, so this is exciting stuff for me...most times I have seen his name it has been spelled Niel instead of Neil...maybe the census enumerator wasn't sure of spelling! :)
I am unsure what is meant by N.B.L.W as in your quote: '16/10/1787 Alexander Dingwall, a single man in Craigiemhulin and Mary Sutherland in Crospie, a single woman (N.B.L.W), Alexander'. Sounds like some sort of League of Women.
Also not sure, was there something after Alexander in this quote? Was this date that of an earlier marriage, or of a child born to Alexander and Mary? And was that child also named Alexander? You don't say...maybe that information isn't there for you to know what it is about anyway.
So many questions, so sorry to not quite understand what is meant here. Just hoping you can enlighten me anyway, or someone else may understand better than I.
Thanks muchly
Jeni, Aotearoa/New Zealand
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Thanks for trying Andy.
I will see if I can dig up anything else.
The entire family seem to have been from Durness or Eddrachillis.
I don't know how much travelling was done in those days. Durness must have been pretty remote in the 19th Century.
wini
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Jeni,
N. B. L. W. = Not being in lawful wedlock
quaint term meaning not married.
Christine
Australia
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Thank you Andy but i have no Paterson 's buried there. the Parents of Elizabeth Douglas , George Douglas & Elizabeth McIntosh lived at Thurso, Caithness , but daughter Elizabeth emigated to New Zealand with husband John Paterson & their sons. . Regards- Julina.
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Hi All
Julina, I will have a look in the MI's for Thurso to see if I can pick up any info on Elizabeth's parents if you would like?
Wini, I will continue to look for your Gunn's and post anything I find.
Jeni, Alexander was also the childs name and check the post from Christine which explains NBLW.
Cheers all
Andy
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Andy,
John Gunn's son was also John Gunn Married 1st November 1851 Durness
Died Durness 21st Januaury 1894
His wife was Betsy MS Gunn died Durness 1892
Her parents according to her DC were Donald Gunn & Barbara Morrison married in Durness/Eddrachillis 1820
Now although I can find children for Donald & Barbara there is no record of Betsy/Bessie etc.
John Gunn Junior's DC is signed by his son William and parents are as I said John Gunn & Margaret MacAskill
I have some doubts about some of the parents on th DC's espceially the Mothers MS
I have found discrepancies elsewhere
wini
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Thanks Christine and Andy. Now I understand...haven't seen that before ;D
Jeni, Aotearoa/New Zealand
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Re Andy posting #82, Mon. 30 Jan. - Lieut Donald Mackay
Hello Andy
As you will see by my 22 December posting; I do have quite a lot of info on Lieut Donald Mackay, son of John, son of Donald, son of William org. and his family, but lacking information on identifying his father John, Just one little piece of information could be the key to a breakthrough, so it would be great if you can post all the info for Lieut Donald MacKay and Rev John Thomson? and John of Borley
You now have me really intrigued as I was unaware of Donald having a marriage prior to Isobel of Borley who died at the time of giving birth to their son John. I have also to discover Lieut Donald’s DOB which is around 1761
Donald later remarried to Sybella Thomson on 12 Sep 1801. I do have Parish DOB records of their seven children.
Looking forward to your posting
Best Wishes
Donald NZ
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Re: Alexander Morrison
« Reply #78 on: Monday 30 January 06 14:44 GMT (UK)
Hello Andy
Thank you for the info on Alexander Morrison. The information helps immensely.
I did have a record of Alexander marrying a Marion Mackay but I had no record of where the information had come from, so had to discount the information.
Now that you have come up with all these records gives me some more to think about with Marion
As you will have noticed it was Marion Mackintosh at marriage, Mackay on their first child, second child Mackintosh, third child Mackay and fourth child McIntosh. Why would she keep changing surnames? I see a lot of first names interchange, but it is unusual with surnames.
Andy; have you any thoughts on this one?
I also notice the spelling of Morison, rather than Morrison.
In a letter Alexander wrote he signed himself Morrison, see the following.
"To Mr John N. Barclay, clerk, Tongue. 27 Dec. 1844
Sir, I beg respectfully to enclose the sum of £2 stg. to go to the credit of Donald Morrison, tenant, Achnahuag, as part payment of the year's rent. Sir, please acknowledge receipt hereof to the above aforesaid Donald Morrison. Yours respectfully, Alexander Morrison. Address: Cumlodden, by Inveraray."
Andy, were all the entries spelt exactly Morison?
Looks as if the family had moved from Arnoboil by the time George was born which I had calculated to have been around 1796
My records showed that Alexander and his family left Arnabol about 1797 for East Loch Hope and then in 1801 had moved to Lettermore from which they were cleared in 1806. Alexander had represented the tenants of Lettermore before Lord Reay when they were being moved. After this they settled in Dianachory and two years later, probably around 1808, moved to Melness.
Regards Donald Morison; my West Moine Mission record # 5. shows his spelling as Morrison. Although registered the same day my records show they were married 23 August 1813 and Margaret baptised 14 Sept 1813
There are two separate marriage dates noted on registration's 5 and 13.
# 5 states Date of marriage to be 14 Sept. 1813
# 13 States; they were married 23 August 1813. Daughter Margaret baptized 14 Sept 1813. That # 13, specifically mentions married 23 August, identifies the actual marriage date, whereas 14 September is the registration of both marriage and date of baptism. In this instance I had based my dates on; 23 August 1813 for marriage, and 14 September 1813, as the date for the recording of both marriage and baptism of Margaret. Do these dates tie in with your info?
For the record, Marion Mackay was the daughter of James and Ann, and Ann was daughter to John of Borley while James is an Uncle to Lieut. Donald Mackay, who we have in another posting.
Recap:
Are the records for Morison actually spelt Morison and not Morrison?
Have you any thoughts on the surname interchange on Marion MacKintosh to Mackay and back to MacKintosh, to Mackay and then McIntosh?
Is there a George Morrison, born about 1796 at either Arnoboil or East Loch Hope?
Thanks again for the info, most appreciated,
Best wishes
Donald NZ
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Re: Alexander Morrison
« Reply #92 on: Today at 05:05:45 »
Hello Andy
Isn’t it so very typical, more answers create more questions.
Now that I know of Angus Morison alias Macdhonilroy tenent at Dun Dorniceill, Strathmore. On searching the 1879 Reay Rentals, I find he was not a tenant the year earlier. However there was a George Morison who was the major tenant in 1789.
1789 STRATHMORE tenants:. Geo. Morison, £2 15. 10 ; Angus Roy, £1 19 2 ; Angus M'Kay, 18/4 ; John Mackay, 18/4 ; Hugh M'Angus,
I had previously thought this George was probably the father of Donald Morrison who married Marion Mackay. Noted in your research.
Andy, would you have any info on this George Morison of Strathmore? As he was old enough to hold the largest tenancy it is possible this George was born in a similar time frame to Alexander and Angus and may even be a brother.
I had actually put aside these Morrison’s some time ago as they had become very confusing. However since your posting of the info I have sent every spare minute going back over these Morrison records
There are two George Morrisons one of whom is Alexander's son, these two George’s were living close to one another at Melness, born within the same time frame, around 1800, both married Isabella and had similar named children in similar time frames.
Then there were three Donald Morrison’s, all born in a similar time frame and married Marion’s. This bit of background will give you some idea of how much I appreciate the info you have posted, as every little bit of info assists to unravel these individuals. I guess they never knew the head scratching that would take place a couple of hundred years later by people like ourselves through these similar naming.
Thanks again Andy.
Best wishes
Donald NZ
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Hi Andy
I am still working on this Morrison set of families and although this posting is not asking for info, thought I should let you know the info you have posted has been most appreciated by me and resulted in more family jigsaw sections in place.
Andy; Re: your posting of; #36 on: Wednesday 29 June 05 to Michael:
14/04/1778 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish,in Batlamhish and Elisabeth Mackintosh, alias ninhustianmacnishmaceniconil,in Arnoboll
This Elizabeth has to be sister to: Marion MacKintosh (in Arnoboll) alias ninhustianmacnishiceniconil of your #78 on: Monday 30 January 06 14:44 GMT, posting.
What is interesting is that both Marion and Elisabeth disclose through their marriage patronymics, a parentage of Hugh, Angus and John, but with their children only disclosing Hugh and Angus.
In your #36 posting you mention “not sure where Lettermore is”. Lettermore is situated where the river from Ben Loyal enters Lock Loyal, about eight miles south of Tongue.
Andy, you also mention Neil Macleod’s father being Kenneth. I note the patronymic as being “macnishmacean” to me that reads as Angus son of John. Kenneth would be more like maccenichmacean, macceanichmacean or perhaps maccoinneachmaceon.
Checking out your #36 posting was a real bonus as for me, as it confirms through the patronymic as Marion being of Mackintosh. I still can’t figure out why she was Mackay for two of her children.
Best wishes
Donald NZ
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Andy,
When & if you have time, can you check for me John Gunn Born 31/08/1779
Parents Angus Gunn/Joanna MacLeod. This would be the right time frame for the John Gunn I am looking for.
He was the father of John Gunn married to Betsy Gunn 1/11/1851
John Gunn Senior was married to Margaret McAskill but I see arounnd 1779
in Durness there was a Hector, 1796, Angus 1794, Eupham,1792,Flora 1790
Duncan 1792
Surname MacKaiskil. No Margaret but I am wondering if that could be the spelling I am looking for.
No more clues but would appreciate it if you could have a look
wini
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hi andy
looking for info on angus mckay born 1809 immigrated to cape breton and married a cathern ? born 1817 scotland.
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Hi Donald
Sorry, I have said previously I am not an expert on Gaelic or Patronymics, I am just going by my experiences within my own family. Within my family when I have had a patronymic saying Macnish the father has always been Kenneth.
I would dearly love for someone to give me a crash course in this if there is anyone out there. The other thing is as you probably already know, the amount of mistakes within the register are mistakes made by the parish minister writing things phonetically, so we cannot always rely on what they have written or whether they have written it correctly!
Andy
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Hi All
Message for Wini, Will look back into tis for you.
Message for Hillboy, Will let you know asap what I find.
Andy
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Hi Donald
Just going back over a few posts and found you asking me a question as to whether the entries for Morison were spelt correctly, just to let you know I have typed them as they appear in the register. As discussed in a previous post though you have to be careful with spellings within the register. This said, I will always post the information exactly as it appears as there maybe spelling mistakes but I think it is far better to see the correct information from the register and not the way I may have interpreted it.
Andy
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Something for James
17/05/1778 John MacKintosh alias Macenmacalistericenish, junior, a very little tenant and post in Balamhulich, Janet
This seems to be the baptism of your Janet MacKintosh who later went onto marry Hector MacKay in 1794. (aged 16?)
Other children seems to be:-
17/05/1805 John MacKintosh alias Maceanicalistermacnish, little farmer in ceannabin and Mary MacLeod, Christian
05/12/1803 John MacKintosh alias Maceanicalistermacnish, in Durin and Mary MacLeod, Murdoch
25/05/1807 John MacKintosh alias Maceanicalistermacnish, in Rispond and Mary MacLeod, Isobel
I am basing these purely on the patronymic of John matching that from the birth of Janet.
One other interesting thing is that I think this is the second marriage of John's. I think he was previously married to an Isobel Murray.
John's Marriage
10/01/1776 John MacKintosh in Balamhulich and Isobel Murray in Shinins
Therefore if I am correct Isobel Murray would have been Janet's mother and not Mary MacLeod. John and Isobel had at least four other children Elspie, Ann John and George.
Hope this is helpful and not confusing James. If you want me to post the baptism's of the other children let me know.
Cheers
Andy
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Andy, you are indeed a gentleman!
Thank you very much for this information and if it is not too much trouble, I would also appreciate the baptism info on the other children.
Cheers mate,
James
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Hi James
We are all in this together!
11/02/1768 John MacKintosh alias Maceanicalistericnish in Balamhulich, Elspie
07/03/1772 John MacKintosh in Balamhulich, Ann
16/10/1774 John MacKintosh in Balamhulich, Elspie (? previous Elspie could have died or Elspie baptised again)
01/10/1780 John MacKintosh alias Maceanicalitermacnish a very little tenant iand post in balamhulich and Isobel Murray, John
30/12/1784 John MacKintosh Junior post and little tenant in Durin and Isobel Murray, George
From the details in these entries, John's father was John and not Iain which is why he was called junior. Also he patronymic reads as I see it, John son of John son of Alistair son of Kenneth. As Donald has pointed out though I maybe wrong on the last part of the alias it could also read son of Angus?
All the best James
Andy
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Hi Donald
Again going back over some previous post;
The only reason for the interchange of MacKintosh and MacKay I can think of is that Durness is mostly a MacKay region. I have had a similar thing happenen to me where one of my ancestors was Baptised Sutherland, married as sutherland and then half then children's baptisms she was called MacKay? Those Gaelic people can be confusing!
I noticed you asked me to look into George Morison also, I will have a look at that this weekend if thats okay. I do have the details of Sybella Thomson and will post those this weekend if you still need them
Cheers
Andy
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Re: Reply #97 on: Yesterday at 19:05:41
Hello Andy
Some Patronymic crash course info on its way.
Best Wishes
Donald
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Hello Andy
Re your Reply #103 on: Tuesday 14 February 06 22:50 GMT (UK) »
Anything on George Morrison of Strathmore (Reply #92) will be appreciated.
Re: Lieut. Donald Mackay and Sybella Thomson. I have parish information on their family. It is individual information relating to Lieut Donald Mackay, alias Maceanmacuilamoig, Chelsea pensioner, prior to 1793 and his marriage to Isobel Mackay, that I am researching.
Calculated from the 1841 census, Donald was born abt. 1761
Andy, should you notice any reference to Lieut. Donald’s wife’s brother, Donald Mackay of Sheigra, born 12 Jun 1775, who married abt. 1796, to Margaret MacDiarmid, (also referred to as the woman of great faith) that would be a bonus.
Best Wishes
Donald NZ
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Hi Donald
Will check this out this evening for you.
Andy
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Andy,
A new query for you.
When you have time.
I have record of John Gunn marrying Isabella Ross 23/3/1835
Daughter Doll Gunn born 14/7/1845
In the 1861 Census John Gunn (I am assuming the same one) is Married to Betsy Gunn Married 1/11/1851
Dolina is now 15
Isabella 8
Catherine 6
Helen 6months.
Looks like the same Doll (Dolina)
Is there any record of Isabella Ross dying?
John is 44 in 1861
Betsy 29
DC for John gives his age as 87 in 1894
DC for Betsy(now Bessy) 64 in 1892
Betsy's Parents are given as Donald Gunn and Barbara Morrison can't find any record of her birth but can find siblings.
Betsy probably born Eddrachillis
John says he was born in Lanark so you won't have his Birth.
Does this make any sense?
Any help appreciated
wini
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Andy,
Would appreciate it if you could look for the following (time permitting of course!)
The marriage of: John Morrison (crofter)b c1750 Kinlochbervie
and Janet Morrison b c1757 Durness
The birth of their son Robert Morrison abt 1800
The marriage of: Roderick Morrison unsure of birth year
and Mary Mackay unsure of birth year
The birth of their daughter Ann Morrison abt 1800
Apologies for the vagueness of my info. Thank you for your time
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Hi Donald, wini & PJmullaney,
Sorry again for the delay in responding, work is very busy at the moment and I seem to be staying in hotels every week. I am home this weekend so shall check up on all your queries then.
Hope this is okay. Speak to you all soon.
Andy
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No Hurry Andy
I can wait until you have spare time
wini
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No probs.... :)
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Hi Andy,
My name is Ian Morrison and I, too, have a photo-copy of Hew Morrison's transcription of the Durness OPR. I have been through it about a thousand times in the past ten years and have found it a treasure trove.
With regard to the patronymics, I have managed to figure out quite a few of them and , in fact, prepared a list for another board which I am now going to try to paste here:
In the Durness Parish Register, the ministers recorded aliases for many of their parishioners, using a phonetic approximation .
of the Gaelic names when the alias was a patronymic. These they tended to show as if it were one name although there
were often two or three names.
A bit of explanation may help when separating and deciphering these names. As most know, "mac" means son of "X". The
object,"X", in this situation a name, takes the genitive case. In Gaelic this frequently requires aspiration in the pronunciation and
a change in the vowel sound, with the insertion of an "i" after the vowel. Aspiration is indicated by an "h" after the consonant.
But these changes are not always obvious from the ministers' phonetic renderings. In a three-name patronymic,i.e. son of A,
son of B, son of C, the second and third "mac"also take the genitive case and change to "mhic", pronounced vic, often shortened
to " 'ic" .
Here is an example: John Morison alias macuilammachustianicachin. Separating out the macs and the 'ics, it becomes
mac Uilam mac Hustian 'ic Achin. The Gaelic equivalent, in the nominative case, is Uisdean (Hugh); Uilleam (William)
The following table lists the phonetic renderings that I have been able to figure out, I think.
Durness Phonetic Gaelic Nominative Imitated Pronunciation* English/Scots Equivalent
Alister Alasdair Allustir Alexander/Alistair
Dol/Dohil Domhnall Daw-ull Donald
Eorish Seoras/Sheoras (gen) Shawruss/Eoruss George
Ever Iomhair Ee-uh-var Ivor
Achin Eachann Euchunn Hector
Hustian Uisdean Oosh-jan Hugh
Emish (gen) Sheumas Hae-mush James
En Iain/Eoin Ee-an John/Iain/Ian
Cenich/Ceanich Coinneach Coen-yoch Kenneth
Neil Niall Nyeeull Neil
Rob Raibert/Rob Rabburt Robert
Rory/Rorie Ruairidh/Ruaraidh Roe-urree Roderick
Uillam Uilleam Ool-yam William
Unidentified Durness Phonetics
Nish - possibly Aonghas (Eun-eu-uss) for Angus
Omash - possibly Tomas/Thomas [gen] (Toe-mass/ 'Hoe-mass) for Thomas
Eric [F] - possibly Oighrig (Eu-eerick) for Effie or Euphemia or Henrietta or Harriet
Morachie - possibly Murchadh (Moorochugh) for Murdo
Ormaid - possibly Tormod (Torromot) for Norman
If anyone has any additions or corrections, they would be most welcome.
Well, the information is there but the columns did not work out correctly. oes anyone have any suggestions on how I might better display it?
In the meantime, going back to an earlier post, I think that "Nish" is Angus.
I have just read the eight pages of this thread and noticed amny familiar names, including some of my own ancestors. Being a modestly populated parish, there are quite a few inter-related families, including my own - I have two 4xGGs who are double ancestors.
I also have a copy of the Book of MacKay and The House and Clan of MacKay, which have been helpful in tracing descendants of the chiefs' line.
Ian
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Hi Ian
I believe it was yourself who kindly sent me the copy of the register that I have a few years ago. I am eternally grateful to you for that kind gesture and am trying to give something back to the community.
Also very greatful to you for the patronymic info.
Great to hear from you again.
Andy
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Hi Donald
Found some interesting information for you, you may have this already but I thought it was well worth posting.
Melness Burial Ground west side Kyle of Tongue - Grave 37
The grave of Peggy MacDiarmid, a native of Glenlyon who came to Sutherland with her brother a gamekeeper in the Reay forest. When she married Donald MacKay they lived at Shegra in the parish of Kinlochbervie until they were "cleared" after which they settled at Achinver, Melness. She was a great admirer of Dr Kennedy of Killearnan, sage in Memorabilia Domestica. Domestica describes her as "distinguished for the vitality of her christian character". She was known to her contemporaries as "Bean Chreidimh Mhoir" (the woman of great faith). The Duchess of Sutherland gave her free liferent of house and land at Melness. She died on the 15 April 1841.
Also found a number of baptisms which could be theirs
17/02/1797 Mr Donald MacKay, Borley and Mrs Margaret MacDermat, Minie
06/04/1798 Donald MacKay in Borley and Mrs Margaret MacDermat, Duncan
22/10/1799 Donald MacKay in Borley and Margaret MacDermat, Colin Campbell
01/06/1801 Mr Donald MacKay, Tacksman of Borley and Mrs Margaret MacDermad, Isobel
Found an entry in the Sutherland MI's which also could be yours?
Bessie Born Approx 1742 - Died 02/02/1838 at Clasneach (father late Jas MacKay, Esq of Skerray)
Major Donald MacKay of Eriboll died before 1838, both interred at Arnaboll burial ground graves 11-12. West side of Loch Hope.
Andy
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Hi PJMullany
Have some info for you;
Marrriage
27/11/1777 Roderick Morison alias Macuilammacrory in Cerruack and Mary MacKay alias Enicalistermacuillamroy in Sartigrim
Baptisms
22/08/1782 Roderick Morison alias Macuileammacrory, shepherd in Cerruach near Cape Wrath and Mary MacKay alias Macalistermacinlaroy, George
29/10/1786 Roderick Morison alias Macuileammacrory, shepherd in Cerruach near Cape Wrath and Mary MacKay alias Macalistermacinlaroy, Mary
23/05/1790 Roderick Morison alias Macuileammacrory, shepherd in Cerruach near Cape Wrath and Mary MacKay alias Macalistermacinlaroy, Hugh
21/01/1793 Roderick Morison alias Macuileammacrory, shepherd in Cerruach near Cape Wrath and Mary MacKay alias Macalistermacinlaroy, Donald
28/06/1795 Roderick Morison alias Macuileammacrory, shepherd in Cerruach near Cape Wrath and Mary MacKay alias Macalistermacinlaroy, Barbara
12/03/1797 Roderick Morison alias Macuileammacrory, shepherd in Cerruach near Cape Wrath and Mary MacKay alias Macalistermacinlaroy, William
10/08/1800 Roderick Morison alias Macuileammacrory, herdsman in Cerruach near Cape Wrath and Mary MacKay alias Macalistermacinlaroy, Ann
Possible burial of Donald born in 1793?
Donald Morrison 20th foot d. Laid 19/03/1882 (90), Fa Rod better known as RUARAIDH A 'SHEARRABHAG d. 1839 (94)
Possible burial of Ann born 1800?
Ann Morrison 22/03/1879 (78) H Robt Morrison 27/12/1881 (86) Erected 1881 s W. R. Morrison, Road Contractor, Kinlochbervie.
Sorry could only find one entry for John Morison:-
23/01/1777 John Morison from Fonziedale in Eddrachilis and Janet Morison in Cerruack
Hope this helps
Andy
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Hi Wini
Havent forgotten you, but still looking into your query, hopefully I will find something soon?
Andy
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Thanks Andy,
I will see if I can come up with any more information
wini
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Andy,
Please excuse my butting in, but I believe Hew Morrison may have misread the minister's writing when he recorded the patronymic of Mary Mackay, the wife or Roderick (William, Roderick) Morrison
I think it should be as he has recorded it in their marriage 27 Nov 1777, i.e. nin Enicalistermacuillamroy or nin macIain 'ic Alisdair 'ic Uilleam ruaidh, i.e. daughter of John, son of Alistair(or Alexander), son of red-haired William.
This came to my attention because I recall having studied it when researching one of my ancestors with similar patronymics - Donald MacEnicalisterroy.
Ian
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If anyone believes that they have ancestors who were born/baptized/married in the Durness area in the mid-nineteenth centurybut can't find them, they should not overlook the possibility that these ceremonies were performed in the Free Church. Many of such entries are not recorded in the IGI.
There is a Free Church register in Edinburgh but I don't know where. The relative who looked mine up simply referred to it as "NAS".
National Archives of Scotland?
If you happen to be looking for a Morrison, I have most of these.
Ian
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A useful tool when searching for ancestors is Hugh Wallis's site
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/
This allows you to look at all the IGI entries in a parish for selected surnames during several batch periods.
The usual caveat applies: beware of LDS Church member entries. Don't believe them!
It may take you a little time to find your way around the site but it is well worth the effort.
Ian
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Donald NZ,
Are you still looking for Donald Mackay of Clasneach, Clashneach, or Claiseneach?
I came across one yesterday while I was reading Ian Grimble's book, The World of Rob Donn, , my 7 x g grandfather.
It doesn't help much; "Early in 1757 the minister [Macdonald] happened to be visiting Donald Mackay of Claiseneach in Durness, whose wife Barbara was a daughter of Kenneth Sutherland of Keoldale and their son Captain George a servant of the East India Company."
I think Barbara was actually a sister of Kenneth Sutherland, the manager of Lord Reay's Durness barony.
There is another reference to a Donald Mackay of Clasneach in the genealogy of the Skerray Mackays in the Book of Mackay. He married Mary, a daughter of John of Clasneach.
It is not clear from the narative that John had any activity in Clasneach. He was otherwise known as Iain macEachainn [the second son of Hector Mackay of Skerray, son of John Mackay of Skerray, son of Hugh Mackay of Strathy] and was the factor for the 3rd Lord Reay at Muisel. He was also the mentor for Rob Donn, whom he hired as a cowherd.
Not much help I suppose, but you never know.
Ian
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Andy,
Thank you so much for the info!! You given me my ggg grandmothers brothers and sisters!! The burials seem to be possible, especially Anns, as the person who erected her stone in 1881 was my GG grandfather.
Thank you for all your time and effort, much appreciated. :)
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Donald,
I came across a little more information about Donald Mackay of Clasneach, hiding in the genealogy of the Sandwood Mackays.
The Hon. Charles Mackay, son of Donald 1st Lord Reay by his 3rd wife, had 3 sons and 2 daughters, the younger daughter being Margaret. She married John Sutherland of Keoldale and they had 2 children, (1) Kenneth Sutherland [who, as previously mentioned, became the manager of Lord Reay's Durness barony], and (2) Barbara Sutherland, who married Donald Mackay of Clasneach. They had 3 children: George [already mentioned]; Marion who married John Mackay, Borley; and Mary who married Neil Morrison, Kylestrome.
I took another look at your earlier post and wonder where you found the approx. marriage date of 1749 for John, Borley and Marion Mackay? This seems a bit early for two reasons: (1) I have not seen Marion's age recorded anywhere but allowing for the generations it seems compressed; (2) their first child was apparently born in 1766*, i.e. 17 years after they were married.
* unless some were born prior to the commencement of the Durness Parish Register in 1764
BTW, as you probably know, "John of Borley" indicates that he has some legal title to the land. "John in Borley", or "John, Borley" indicates he rents it.
The patronymic in Mary's baptismal registration is helpful but, unfortunately, the Book of Mackay does not list any "issue" for George., nor does "The History of the House and Clan of Mackay".
Ian
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Hi Donald
Am away again but I do have some info on Donald MacKay and will post it this weekend when I get home.
Andy
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Thanks Andy, I look forward to seeing the info
Donald NZ
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Reply #121
Are you still looking for Donald Mackay of Clasneach, Clashneach, or Claiseneach?
Hello Ian
Thank you for your comments, I will try and cover them in order, as separate subjects to keep them tidy,
Sorry that I have not been able to respond earlier. I had upgraded and changed several programs around in my main computer, then had to sort out which ones were fighting one another as there were major ensuing problems; so any spare time has had to go into getting the computers working properly again. Now for a catch-up.
1) Re; Rob Donn. As your 7 x g grandfather, have you identified whether Rob Donn was Mackay, Calder, Morrison ??
2) Your comment; I think Barbara was actually a sister of Kenneth Sutherland, the manager of Lord Reay's Durness barony.
2) Re; Barbara Sutherland, m Donald Mackay of Clashneach; who was her father?? John or Kenneth??
“A History of the House & Clan of Mackay”1829, page 572, has “Isobella …. She married a gentleman of the name of Sutherland, (Kenneth of Keoldale ?) that the question mark is actually written indicates “Robert Mackay” the writer to be unsure of the individual.
(Isobella referring to John of Clashneach daughter).
In “The Book of Mackay” by Angus Mackay, published 1906, page 315, he states “Isobel married John, son of Kenneth Sutherland of Keoldale”.
Page 330v, states; Margaret married John Sutherland of Keoldale, issue two:- Kenneth, m his cousin Catherine, dau of Robert Mackay, tutor of Farr, and had a son John who m Isobel, dau. of John Mackay of Clashneach” and
“Barbara Sutherland m Donald Mackay, Clashneach”
“World of Rob Donn”.published 1999, Ian Grimble quotes Barbara as a daughter of Kenneth, and seems quite emphatic about it as it is fully written out in the index, page 302,
Grimble has; John (Iain Mac Choinnich) son of Kenneth as m Isobel (page 97-98 & 302)
Page 67; Kenneth,… son of the tutors sister Margaret and also married to the Tutors daughter Catherine.
"The Chiefs of Clan Mackay and Their Cadets." by John Barth page 83
28.3.Isobel Mackay, m.(her cousin) John Sutherland, son of Kenneth Sutherland, in Keoldale, parish of Durness, co Sutherland, by his wife, Catherine Mackay, dau of Robert Mackay, tutor of Farr.
The latter two writers have the advantage of being able to resource the earlier research books as well as a wider range of documentation. Regardless I would like some confirmed dates on these three generations as a method to confirm or otherwise whether Barbara was son of Kennethor brother to Kenneth.
Isobel died 9th. May 1748 at Keoldale, Sutherland, Scotland. Age abt 23yrs = botn abt. 1725.
John died 1 o'clock 18th. May 1748, at Keoldale and buried at Balnakil, Sutherland, Scotland
John Sutherland was born abt.1680 and Margaret Mackay abt. 1685, these two about dates I recorded but did not at the time keep a record of how this was calculated, so the dates must be regarded as purely speculative. Hopefully someone can add further information.
Ian, Re; “Donald Mackay of Clasneach, Clashneach, or Claiseneach” I will respond and give it a separate heading
Donald NZ
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Re: Donald Mackay of Clashneach
« Reply #121 on: Saturday 11 March 06 17:27 GMT (UK) - Ian
Are you still looking for Donald Mackay of Clasneach, Clashneach, or Claiseneach?
Hello Ian
You have sure read all of Andys posts and I note your reference is to;
Page 5, « Reply #66 on: Thursday 22 December 05 05:42 GMT (UK)
Relating to John of Borley. I have an approximate 1749 marriage to wife Marian Mackay, born abt. 1729, daughter of Donald Mackay of Clashneach and Barbara Sutherland.
This Donald Mackay of Clashneach has been a problem for me over a very long time, although he has been mentioned in several historical books his history and in particular his second marriage to Mary, daughter of John of Musal or Clashneach and Catherine Mackay of Melness, is most vague. --------
Donald first married Barbara Sutherland, they had five children, Cpt. George b.abt 1727: Margaret b. abt. 1726, d.29/9/1805: Catherine: Margaret b. abt 1725: Marian b. abt 1729.
Ian as you appear to have Ian Grimbles, “The World of Rob Donn”. See page 212, there is reference that to me indicates the period when Donald and Barbara were splitting up. There is also reference to Rev. Murdo Macdonald using the term Uncle Kenneth, in reference to Barbara’s brother, when speaking of Barbara’s son Cpt. George. (this particular page I consider, makes Grimble’s deduction of Barbara being daughter of Kenneth to be wrong).
Donald went on to marry Mary daughter of Iain macEachainn of Muiseal in Strathmore, factor to the 3rd Lord Reay also his third cousin and a large dealer of cattle, reputedly wealthy, but best remembered for taking Rob Donn into his family.
Iain has been recorded in numerous “Contract of Wadset, Tacks, Sasines and other registered articles”, usually with the title of John Mackay of Clashneach.
Donald Mackay of Clashneach and John’s daughter Mary are recorded as having children, as yet I have not found a record of a named child or time frame. I have found reference that Donald and Mary retired to Muiseal, also that it would appear their eldest son was John, who at some stage lived in Melness and the second son was James. Also yet to confirm that Donald was the son of William oig. Mary may have been born abt 1730.
There is also a mention in Ian Grimbles, :The World of Rob Donn” of Donald of the Lugs (cut off cows ear markings) The reference is that Mary was married to this Donald of the Lugs, who appears not to be Donald of Clashneach, so it is possible Mary married twice.
Ian, I would certainly be appreciative if you are able to throw further enlightenment on Donald, Barbara and Mary.
Re: Reply #123 on: Sunday 12 March 06 04:17 GMT (UK)
“wonder where you found the approx. marriage date of 1749 for John, Borley and Marion Mackay?”
Ian I will tie this in with the Lieut Donald and Donald of Borley listing.
Donald NZ
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Donald,
I'm afraid I am going to run out of time before I respond to all of your points. However, I will make a start.
Rob Donn was not a Morison. Whether his proper name was Mackay or Calder I don't know and I doubt that anyone does. It seems very unlikely he was related by blood to the chiefly line and if he was a Mackay, he would have been an adherent.
The minister recorded many Calders in the Parish Register but he gave most of them aliases. Not patronymics but other aliases. Very occasionally, he gave Mackay as an alias but not freqwuently enough to suggest it was a common one.A Mackay alias would not be helpful for identification purposes, which is the most common reason for an alias - to distinguish between all the Robert Mackays, (or in your case Donald Mackays). He was not, of course, a local person nor was Gaelic his mother tongue.
The Mackays claim him as one of their own but I have read nothing that supports this. I will always think of him as just Rob Donn.
I descend from his daughter Christine or Christian. You may recall Grimble relating how Mary Morison (Rob Donn's first love?) married a the joiner/carpenter and their son, Hugh Murray, married Rob's daughter Christine. Well, that lady's second marriage was to John macUilliam mhicUisdean 'icEachainn ruaidh Morison. The only offsprring of that second marriage was Hugh Morison who with Fairly Reay MacCulloch produced a son, Donald, my 4x great gandfather, who lived at Lerin (Leirinmore on maps). One of my distant cousins still lives on that croft in Lerin.
I will respond to the Barbara Sutherland controversy later, although I don't have any firm dates to offer. I do have some logic, though.
Ian
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Donald,
As I said in my previous post, I don't have any firm dates. These are very scarce in all three of the books I have been referring to.
However, there does not seem to be much controversy regarding (1) Kenneth Sutherland. "The Book of Mackay"; "The History of the House -----"; and "The World of Rob Donn" all seem to have him as the son of (2)John Sutherland and Catherine nic Tutor of Farr. Similarly, all three have him as the father of (3) the John Sutherland who married Isabel nic Iain macEachainn (John of Clasneach).
You have estimated the birth of (2) as ca. 1680 and his wife, Margaret, as 1685. Add 25 or 20 years to their dob and you get 1705 for an approx. marriage date.
Assume (1) Kenneth's dob one year later, i.e. 1706. Add 20 years for an est. marriage date for Kenneth of 1726.
Assume (3) John's birth 1 year later, i.e. 1727. Grimble reports his marriage was in 1747. Age 20 seems a bit young for marriage
but within reasonable range.
Barbara is a bit more difficult. I think Grimble is wrong and the Rev. MacDonald correctly described Kenneth Sutherland as Captain George's uncle, making Captain George's mother, Barbara, Kenneth's sister.
With regard to dates, I'm sorry that I don't have any. However, assume (2)John Sutherland's dob was ca. 1680 and his wife, Margaret, was abt. 1685. Add 25/20 years for a marriage date of approx. 1705.
Grimble describes Barbara Sutherland as old in 1747. How old is "old"? 50 to 60? This suggests she was born about 1697 to 1707. Probably closer to 1707.
In any event, if (1) Kenneth's dob was close to 1707, he could not have been the father of
Barbara. She was the mother of a Captain in 1757. Assume Capt. George was 25 in 1757, that gives him a dob of 1732. Assume Barbara was 20 to 25 when Capt. George was born, this gives a her a dob of between 1707 to 1712.
I recognize that I have done a lot of assuming but I think they are reasonable assumptions.
Ian
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Hi
Could you check for a Robert McKay born @ 1794 father William McKay mother Johan or Johanna
Thanks
Alan Fulton
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Hello Andy and Ian
On looking back through Andy’s posts there are several postings to this thread that should now have their own thread, as they have started to clutter up Andy’s original post of:
“I have a copy of the parish register for Durness for Baptisms and Marriages from 1764-1814. If anyone would like me to do a lookup I would be more than happy to”.
As the initial inquiry to Andy on these subjects were originally from myself I will list these new threads as
“Donald Mackay of Clashneach”,- ”Peggy MacDiarmid & Donald of Sheigra”, and “Morrison - Strathmore and Arnoboll 1780 period”
Thank you Andy for all the information you have provided, on these subjects. I hope by me starting these subjects as separate threads that it will make your thread more manageable. Andy, to complete the tidy up, I will re-list with you a concise item for lookup, this will avoid you having to look back through any subjects I have commenced.
My apologies to you Ian, for not having got back to you sooner, however with these new threads each response will now be more specific to a subject.
Best wishes
Donald NZ
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Hello Andy
I hope you agree with me in tidying up my queries by creating new threads. They were becoming too involved and not just a case of searching for a specific parish entry.
Andy, I have found a record of several years ago and do not know where I derived the information from.
It reads:
Date: 28 SEP 1771 Entries in the Durness Parish Records:
Sons of Donald Mackay
JAMES MACKAY
Date: 29 JAN 1769
JOHN MACKAY
Date: 17 OCT 1767
Would you happen to have any information on these two entries?
Donald NZ
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Kia ora Ian :)
re: Morrison, MacKay, MacCulloch, Sutherland, Dingwall, MacLeod, Donn, Calder,
Your sig has two names that are of interest to me from the Durness area, I wonder whether they are, indeed, from that area. McLeod and Dingwall.
I have, thanks to Andy, Merran McLeod married Neil, often spelled Niel, Dingwall on 26 January 1827 in Durness.
Neil was born Clashneach in 1800 and Merran was born about 1805, I have no details as to where. Maybe another email to Andy might help me find this information, if she is from Durness area in the first place. Of course if these are connected to your research, I would love to hear from you.
Jeni downunder in Aotearoa
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Hi Jeni,
Alexander Dingwall, the father of Neil (and three others) was the brother of my 6x greatgrandmother, Isabella. Neil was born/christened in Durness (Clashneach) Dec 18, 1800. His mother was Christian Mackay. My notes say that the Dingwall family came from Clyne parish.
Merran MacLeod does not appear to have any connection with my MacLeod 7x greatgrandmother. I notice a member-submitted IGI entry for a Merran MacLeod "about 1810". I did not recognize the place of birth given.
Not much, I'm afraid, but perhaps Andy can be more helpful.
Spring is sprung in Ontario (almost)
Ian
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Kia ora IanB
>>My notes say that the Dingwall family came from Clyne parish.<<
Yes, thanks Ian, I, too, have that information thanks to ellenavon and Andy on this forum. I have Alexander as born Clyne and Christian baptised Uaibeg, Durness 05 November 1773.
Ellen's husband, see reply #72, is also connected to Isabella.
>>Merran MacLeod does not appear to have any connection with my MacLeod 7x greatgrandmother. I notice a member-submitted IGI entry for a Merran MacLeod "about 1810". I did not recognize the place of birth given. <<
I have her born about 1805, according to the MI, she was 76 when she died in 1881. I will ask Andy whether he has anything on this McLeod in Durness. Thanks for your prompt reply.
>>Spring is sprung in Ontario (almost)<<
Lucky you and we are heading into winter :(, even though the temps lately would deny that. Spring is such a beautiful time of the year. I hope you have a warm spring in Canada.
Kia Ora
Jeni :)
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Kia Ora Andy
I wonder whether you could check whether have anything more on Merran or Marion McLeod, b about 1805, not sure where, could you check Durness Parish Register for me.
The monumental inscription I have for Neil and Merran states she was 76 at her death on 21 January 1881...'In loving memory of Niel DINGWALL Sangobeg died 19th Nov 1883 aged 83 years. Marion MACLEOD his wife died 21st Jan 1881 aged 76 years'. They are buried in Durness.
Kia ora
Jeni, Aotearoa/New Zealand
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Jeni,
For reasons that I don't remember, I have chosen a different Christian Mackay as the wife of Alexander Dingwall, i.e. christened 20 Sept, 1778; parents Robert MacRob MacRob Mackay and Barbara Morison.
You chose 5 Nov, 1773 parents: Robert MacEan 'ic Uilleam 'icNeil who was married to Marion Clarke in 1770 and then, apparently, to Janet Murray in 1777.
I have both these Robert Mackays in my FTM data base due to other connections. How did you choose which Christian?
The Mackays of Durness parish are difficult to keep straight.
Ian
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Kia ora Ian
Thanks for replying so promptly.
You said: 'For reasons that I don't remember, I have chosen a different Christian Mackay as the wife of Alexander Dingwall, i.e. christened 20 Sept, 1778; parents Robert MacRob MacRob Mackay and Barbara Morison.
You chose 5 Nov, 1773 parents: Robert MacEan 'ic Uilleam 'icNeil who was married to Marion Clarke in 1770 and then, apparently, to Janet Murray in 1777.
I have both these Robert Mackays in my FTM data base due to other connections. How did you choose which Christian?'
In reply #79, Andy gave me this information from the DPR:
'16/10/1787 Alexander Dingwall, a single man in Craigiemhulin and Mary Sutherland in Crospie, a single woman (N.B.L.W), Alexander
This could be your Alexander sowing his oats ten years before marrying Christian?
Christian's Parents and her baptism:-
13/06/1770 Robert MacKay alias MaceanvicuilamMacneil in Uaibeg to Marion Clarke in Cnocbreac
05/11/1773 Robert MacKay alias Maceanvicuilammacneil in Uaibeg, Christian'
Not having a copy of the DPR, I didn't realise there was another option here. I guess I must leave all options open and am willing to note your information too. :)
Kia ora
Jeni
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Jeni,
Because of his location of Uaibeg, I think the Robert Mackay that Andy chose is more probable , and I have changed my records to show that Alexander Dingwall was married to Christian, the daughter of Robert MacIain mhicUilleam 'icNeil Mackay.
This Robert was the brother of John who was married to Isobel Donn Calder, the daughter of Rob Donn, the gaelic poet.
Robert appears to have been married twice, the second time to Janet Murray Jul 17, 1777, and they had Marion Dec 7, 1778 and Barbara Feb 10, 1782.
Ian
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Kia ora Ian
Thank you :) I have kept the information you have given on file just in case. I usually add notes in my file regarding any possible discrepancies, so that if and when I find anything different, I am able to change it with very little trouble at all.
Now I am off to spend a couple of days soaking in the hot pools of Hanmer in North Canterbury
Enjoy your spring ;D
Jeni
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Thank you for the look up offer, Andy!
I have a Hugh McKay whose wife was Isabella. Hugh was born in Durness around 1732. He had a daughter Elizabeth about 1761 and may have had other children before he emigrated to USA in 1771. He also had a brother John McKay who married an Ann or Nancy Mckenzie. Any help in finding possible christenings at Durness would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, James from Canada.
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Hi Everyone
Sorry for not posting for some time but work has been dragging me away from home these last few months.
Will review any posts over the last few months and post all new responses ASAP.
Andy
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Thanks Andy, appreciate all the help you have given so many of us.
Jeni
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Hello Andy
I hope you agree with me in tidying up my queries by creating new threads. They were becoming too involved and not just a case of searching for a specific parish entry.
Andy, I have found a record of several years ago and do not know where I derived the information from.
It reads:
Date: 28 SEP 1771 Entries in the Durness Parish Records:
Sons of Donald Mackay
JAMES MACKAY
Date: 29 JAN 1769
JOHN MACKAY
Date: 17 OCT 1767
Would you happen to have any information on these two entries?
Donald NZ
Hi Donald
These two entries refer to a Donald MacKay alias Macnishmacdholicustian in Dalinarait. He also had Angus in 1777, Donald in 1780 and George in 1783. By 1783 he was a tailor in Hope and was married to a Vear Alias Eury MacKay.
Andy
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Thank you for the look up offer, Andy!
I have a Hugh McKay whose wife was Isabella. Hugh was born in Durness around 1732. He had a daughter Elizabeth about 1761 and may have had other children before he emigrated to USA in 1771. He also had a brother John McKay who married an Ann or Nancy Mckenzie. Any help in finding possible christenings at Durness would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, James from Canada.
Hi James
Have been unable to find any details from your request. Sorry but Hugh would have been born before the register started as would Elizabeth. Did check for other children but could not find anything.
Sorry
Andy
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Thank you for trying, Andy it is appreciated, James
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Thank you Andy, info most appreciated.
Donald NZ
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Hi
I discovered this message board quite recently and noticed that you mention William MacKay and Johanna Munro. They belong to my own family tree they also had a son Robert. Any further info would be of help
Thanks
Alan MacKay Fulton
Hi Michael
To start with William MacKay and Johanna Munro:-
There marriage is the first entry in the register for 1791, unfortunately it is right at the bottom of the page and some of it is missing, but it reads:-
William MacKay, alias MackReiry, tennat in the Heights of Erriboll and Johanna Munro
Cannot see where Johanna is from or the date of the marriage.
Children
06/05/1792 William MacKay, alias Macrery, a little tennant in Eribol and Johanna Munro, Janet
21/07/1793 William MacKay, alias Macrery, a little tennant in Eribol and Johanna Munro, James
24/12/1794 William MacKay, alias Macryrie, in Eribol and Johanna Munro, Ann
Cannot seem to find them after this time, and could find no trace of the second Williams birth circa 1801, they may have started going to a non-conformist church?
JOHANNA MUNRO
14/05/1775 Anguis Munro in Hope, Joanna
Siblings
14/11/1764 Angus Munro in Eribol, Catherine
14/07/1765 Angus Munro Macdhonilicorachy in Eribol, Marion
14/08/1768 Angus Munro Macdhonilicorachy in Eribol, Isabella
15/03/1771 Angus Munro in Eribol, Hugh
I am pretty sure that Angus's alias starts with son of Donald but not sure of the rest.
DONALD MACKAY
Donald MacKay first married a Elisabeth Mackintosh entry as follows:-
14/04/1778 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish, in Batlamhish and Elisabeth Mackintosh, alias nin Hustian Macnishmaceniconil, in Arnoboll
Children
30/08/1779 Donald MacKay, alias Macrob macEmish macuilamskerray a young man in Arnoboll and Elisabeth Mackintosh alias nin hustian macnish, Angus
30/03/1782 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish in Arnoboll and Elisabeth Mackintosh alias nin hustianmacnish, Mary
Angus MacKay b 1779 married a Barbara MacKay on 26/12/1806
2nd Marriage
10/02/1795 Donald MacKay, widower in Hope and Janet MacLeod in Lettermore
Children
01/12/1799 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish in Hope and .......... MacLeod from Lettermore, Elisabeth
21/06/1802 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish in Hope and .......... MacLeod from Lettermore, Robert
30/05/1807 Donald MacKay, alias Macrobmacemish in Hope and .......... MacLeod from Lettermore, Donald
12/03/1810 Donald MacKay, alias Macrob in Hope, Alexr
17/05/1813 Donald MacKay, alias Macrob in Hope and Janet MacLeod , Jannet
There was also another Elisabeth baptised 02/12/1796 in Hope (probably died in infancy)
JANET MACLEOD
If Janet MacLeod was also from Durness, not sure where Lettermore is, then she if more than likely to be the daughter of Neil MacLeod as this seems to be the only Janet MacLeod born in the right time period.
21/02/1775 Neil MacLeod in saingo, Janet
Siblings
02/1772 Neil MacLeod in Saingo, Isobel
20/07/1777 Neil MacLeod alias Macnishmacen tennant in Durin, Angus
30/11/1780 Neil MacLeod alias Macnish Macean, tenent in Durin and Jane Campbell alias nin nish, Alexander
Angus MacLeod born 1777 married Janet Ross on 10/02/1799
Neil MacLeod's father was Kenneth MacLeod. Kenneth MacLeod also Had a daughter Henrietta who is my 5th Great Grandmother.
Hope this helps Michael.
Andy
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Hi Alan
An idea when Robert was born? The previous post detailed all the children I could find but if you have a DOB I will check again for you.
Andy
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Hi Andy
I do not have an exact date of birth for Robert his death certificate would presume 1794 however both the 1851 & 1861 census suggests 1800. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Alan
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Hi Andy,
Sorry, it's been about a year; our computer was seriously ill for some time last summer, and we've been on and off internet...
anyway, thanks so much, that corroborates what I already knew (I'm sure it is a transcription error) and sheds a little more light (occupations, especially)
Sorry again and thanks again,
"Brinnell"
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Hi Brinnell
Great to hear from you hope all okay now with your PC. Glad to have helped.
Andy
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Kia Ora Andy
I wonder whether you could check whether you have anything more on Merran, Maryann or Marion MacLeod, christened 1803, in Durness, according to the IGI, could you check Durness Parish Register for me. There may be some information on her parents, Angus MacLeod and Janet ms Ross and any siblings she may have.
The monumental inscription I have for Neil and Merran states Marion was 76 at her death on 21 January 1881...'In loving memory of Niel DINGWALL Sangobeg died 19th Nov 1883 aged 83 years. Marion MACLEOD his wife died 21st Jan 1881 aged 76 years'. They are buried in Durness.
Kia ora
Jeni, Aotearoa/New Zealand
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Andy
If you are still watching YOUR TOPIC could you have a look at something for me?
Hugh Gun/Gunn married Barbara MacKintosh 19th May 1785 in Fairly Durness
Children were
Niel Gunn Christening 19th April 1786
Ann 17th April 1792
Barbara 22nd October 1794
Mary 31st July 1797
Donald 12th November 1801
Niel 20th July 1806
I am assuming the first Niel died.
Any mention of Barbara's birth or relation to a Neil Bain/Bayn
A cousin seems to think he was Barbara's father.
I suppose MacIntosh may have been her Mother's name and she could have been illegitimate
thanks wini
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Hi Jeni and Wini
Didnt think anyone was talking to me any more! Will gladly check these out for you this week.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Don't despair we still love you
wini
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Thanks Andy...I appreciate that. Anything that may fill out what you have told me about Merran/Marion/Maryann and her parents and siblings would help.
Jeni :D
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Hello Andy
Like you, I have not been able to give much time to genealogy for quite some time due to my work. However I saw your list item Reply #155 on: Sunday 06 August 06 So though I would let you know you are most appreciated for all the assistance you have given to many genealogists.
Thanks Andy for the past lookup help you have given me.
Best wishes
Donald NZ
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Sorry Guys havent forgotten about you, but have had to work in Ireland for a few months so not had the time to post anything. Will do so this weekend.
Can anyone advise me on the following? I am going to start transcribing the Durness Parish Register but I am not sure what I need to be aware of in regards to copyright. Would I be able to email it to people etc? Also What do you think would be the best platform Word, Excel, Access or something else?
Cheers
Andy
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Kia ora Andy
Thanks, you are much appreciated.
As for transcribing the DPR, I'm not sure what the story is, however, if you were to do so I would suggest if it is done in a word processing programme such as Word that you save it as .rtf (rich text format) so that anyone not using Microsoft Office can view the document. I do this with anything I send friends who use MS Works or any other word processor so they are able to read it.
You must have a great job...getting to travel as you do...any jobs going for fifty something who sometimes enjoys intellectual intervals...(can be blonde at times)?
Jeni
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Hello Andy
Re your: Reply #159
There are several aspects to take into account relating to copyright. Such as; when written, who was the author?, when did the author die? There is also a difference between copying and adapting and whether commercial or personal interests. Andy, rather than clutter up your forum with a few pages of copyright info, I will put together some info and send to you direct. However my immediate consideration is that from memory, the person who made the transcript of the Durness Parish Register, was Dr. Hew Morrison who died about 1935, so in principal as Hew died over 70 years ago, there should not be any problem with you transcribing information.
Regarding platform: As most of this type of transcription is usually recorded in spreadsheet columns, with first name, surname, patronymic, born, married, locations, dates, etc. I would suggest Excel in preference to Access, as the best all round program. Word would be hopeless with this sort of transcribing, resulting in a complete jumble.
Best wishes
Donald
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Hello Andy
In your info, would you have any record of a marriage between Donald Mackay of Borley and Margaret MacDiarmid / MacDermat / MacDermid, around 1796.
Best wishes
Donald NZ
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Sorry Guys havent forgotten about you, but have had to work in Ireland for a few months so not had the time to post anything. Will do so this weekend.
Can anyone advise me on the following? I am going to start transcribing the Durness Parish Register but I am not sure what I need to be aware of in regards to copyright. Would I be able to email it to people etc? Also What do you think would be the best platform Word, Excel, Access or something else?
Cheers
Andy
The Parish register actually belongs to the Church. I think that you are allowed to compile your own transcriptions from the films, (because the facts themselves are not copyright) but you wouldn't be allowed to use Hew Morrison's transcriptions unless his work has been released from copyright. I presume you mean that you are going to compile transcripts picking up where Hew left off anyhow :)
ChristineR
Australia
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Hi All
Again sorry for any delay in posting responses but unfortunately again I have had to work away from home for the last few months which has taken up much of my time. I will look through the posts and reply to any I havent already replied to this weekend.
Andy
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Looking for information about Donald Sutherland and Catherine Morrison. Their daughter, Barbara born c1813, married Donald Morrison from Laid. Barbara died in 1883 at Laid. Barbara was Donald's second wife, his first wife was Effy Mackay. She died between 1841/1851.
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Marriage recorded Dec 2, 1802 as follows:
Donald, alias Macrory, a single young man in Achumore, lately discharged with the other Reay Fencibles ....... Katherine Morison, daur. of Hector Morison, alias Macdhonil, in Cerruac.
This gives you quite a bit of information: Donald's father's name was Rory/Ruari/Roderick.
The minister's description "single young man" seems to have meant not well-established -( recently left the army)
Katherine's father's name was Hector and grandfather's name was Donald.
Four children appear in the register:
John 11 Nov 1803
Hector 19 May 1806
Barbara 31 Jan 1810
Mary 5 Nov 1812
in each entry they are shown as living in Durin (Durine, i.e. Durness Town)
I will take a look for the birth/christening of Donald and Katherine
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Hi Ian
thankyou very much - that would be great!
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During the early years that the Durness Parish Register was kept, the minister did not record the mother's name when registering a christening. This can cause some doubt in positively identifying certain people. However, I think the following have a high probability of being correct:
16 Jul 1772 Rory Sutherland in Clasneach had a son, Donald
9 Jun 1771 Hector Morison, alias MacDhonil, in Cerruac, had a daughter, Catherine
(Cerruac was the place from where she got married)
Hector Morison in Durin christened a son, George, 27 April 1768
I could find no marriage for a Rory Sutherland around that time. He had an older son, George, christened in Clasneach 12 April 1769. The register was started in 1764 and it is possible he was married before then.
I couldn't find a marriage for Hector Morison either and, again, it's possible he married prior to 1764
That's about it.
Ian
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Thanks very much Ian - more than I would've found!
Much appreciated.
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Andy
If you are still watching YOUR TOPIC could you have a look at something for me?
Hugh Gun/Gunn married Barbara MacKintosh 19th May 1785 in Fairly Durness
Children were
Niel Gunn Christening 19th April 1786
Ann 17th April 1792
Barbara 22nd October 1794
Mary 31st July 1797
Donald 12th November 1801
Niel 20th July 1806
I am assuming the first Niel died.
Any mention of Barbara's birth or relation to a Neil Bain/Bayn
A cousin seems to think he was Barbara's father.
I suppose MacIntosh may have been her Mother's name and she could have been illegitimate
thanks wini
Hi Wini
I am finally home for Christmas and have some time to update the Topic and have found your request above unanswered. Sorry about that.
Anyway, a marriage entry in the register reads:-
Hugh Gunn in Rispond, late N.F. originally from Oldshores and Barbara MacKintosh, Neil Bayns daughter in Rispin alias nin neilbhain or nin neilmacbhain 19-05-1785
Cannot find any trace of her birth in the register.
Another entry in the marriges reads:-
Donald MacKintosh alias MacneilBhain sailor in Rispin and Katherine Gunn in Rispin 15-10-1787 (? Barbara's brother - There are a few others with this alias and I will post them if you want them)
Sorry for the delay.
Andy
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Kia Ora Andy
I wonder whether you could check whether you have anything more on Merran, Maryann or Marion MacLeod, christened 1803, in Durness, according to the IGI, could you check Durness Parish Register for me. There may be some information on her parents, Angus MacLeod and Janet ms Ross and any siblings she may have.
The monumental inscription I have for Neil and Merran states Marion was 76 at her death on 21 January 1881...'In loving memory of Niel DINGWALL Sangobeg died 19th Nov 1883 aged 83 years. Marion MACLEOD his wife died 21st Jan 1881 aged 76 years'. They are buried in Durness.
Kia ora
Jeni, Aotearoa/New Zealand
Hi Jeni
Seems I have quite a lot of info for you so hopefully worth the wait.
MACLEOD
10 Dec 1799 Angus MacLeod alias Macneilicnish in Clashneach to Janet Ross nin hustianmaceanicoun in Achuchoran
Children
31/10/1800 Angus MacLeod macneilmacnish in Clashneach and Janet Ross, Hughina
15/04/1802 Angus macLeod macneilmacnish in Aultcoirfheasgil and Janet Ross, John
23/06/1803 Angus MacLeod, little tenent in Aultcoirfheasgil and Janet Ross, Marion
17/11/1806 Angus MacLeod Herdsman in Aultcoirfheasgil and Janet Ross, William
11/03/1809 Angus MacLeod little tennet in Aultcoirfheasgil and Janet Ross, Alexander
21/05/1811 Angus MacLeod in Achumore and Janet Ross, Kenneth
20/12/1814 Angus MacLeod Shepd in Achumore and Janet Ross, Angus
This seems strange, Angus MacLeod seems to be the son of Neil MacLeod and Jane Campbell. The reason it is strange is that Neil MacLeod is the brother of my 5th great grandmother, so we may be related.
1772 Neil MacLeod in Saingo, Isobel
22/02/1775 Neil MacLeod in saingo, Janet - Janet married Donald MacKay 10/12/1795
20/07/1777 Neil MacLeod alias Macnishmacen a little tenent in Durin, Angus
30/11/1780 Neil MacLeod alias macnishmacean tenent in Durin and Jane Campbell, Alexander
ROSS
17/05/1778 Hugh Ross alias macenicoun, tennant in Borley, Janet
also
23/11/1766 Hugh Ross in Borley, Donald
29/09/1768 Hugh Ross in Borley, Barbara
07/04/1771 Hugh Ross in Borley, Donald
16/05/1775 Hugh Ross in Borley, John
13/07/1781 Hugh Ross alias maceanihicoun tennent in Borley and Jean Manson, William
MI - Hugh Ross d Achuohoran 26/07/1799 68 w. Jean Manson d 22/03/1831 93 ed Quartermaster John Ross 2nd Btn 71st Reg son of Hugh Ross.
DINGWALL
I think I have your Neil.
18/12/1800 Alexander Dingwall, little farmer in Clashneach and Christian MacKay, Neil
Marriage
01/07/1797 Alexander Dingwall mason and wright from the parish of Glyne in Uaibeg and Christian Mackay daughter of Robert MacKay in Uaibeg.
Other Children
10/09/1803 Alexander Dingwall in Cnocbreac and Christian macKay, Dollie
30/12/1805 Alexander Dingwall farmer in cnocbreac and Christian MacKay, Marion
07/06/1808 Alexander Dingwall farmer in cnocbreac and Christian MacKay, Hugh
26/09/1810 Alexander Dingwall a little mechanic and farmer in Cnocbreac and Christian MacKay, Alexander
Hope this is of some use Jeni.
Andy
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Andy,
When you have time the other aliases (is that a word?)
would be great.
I see you have Falconers from Durness in your line.
I have a birth in 1861 Barbara Gunn illegitimate
Mother Hughina Gunn, registered at Badcalle, Inchard.
Hughina died in Durness in1923 age 94
Parents were Donald Gunn and Barbara Morrison
BARABARA GUNN married John Morrison
on her DC 1906 Laid, Durness death registered at Sangomore
her Father is given as JOHN FALCONER , reputed.
Wondered if this Falconer could be one of yours.
WINI
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Andy
Thanks for your help.
I have been following a line connected with my ROSS family of Lairg. It is the family of Kennethina DINGWALL, who married Donald ROSS, brother of my gg-grandfather, Hugh ROSS. I have found some fascinating information from around the Durness area and decided to ride along with that family for a while...it has been hugely helpful, thanks to yourself and the DPR, I think. Merrin MACLEOD was Kennethina's mother and Neil/Niel DINGWALL, her father.
:) Jeni, Christchurch, Aotearoa/New Zealand
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:)
Wini, I too have Falconer's in my tree from this area - have been checking them out with Andy. Keep your fingers crossed!
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Hey Guys
If you are interested in the Falconer name I would advise a visit to this web site: http://www.islandregister.com/falconer1.html .
Airlass you will find your Falconers on this site not sure of yours wini.
Andy
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Thanks very much Andy - this will be a big help in filling in the blanks!
Much appreciated
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Re the Falconer website - Brilliant!
I can now tie in my Falconer's from Scourie with the Achlyness ones which I always suspected were connected but couldn't find the link. These Falconer's are connected to me 3 times!
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Hey All
Just thought I would post an update. Unfortunately with work commitments over the last year I have been a bit slow to respond to some requests and I apologise for this. I have now enlisted the help of my mother to do research when I am away from home so hopefully you guys wont have to wait until I get back to get a response.
I have checked her work (which she didnt like) but she is very accurate, so no worrys. She also has copies of Sutherland and Caithness MI's if anyone needs a look-up in these.
So all you people looking for Durness relatives keep posting.
Andy
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Good to hear from you again Andy, It's great what Mothers will do for their sons, isn't it.
wini
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Hi wini
Hope you had a great christmas and new year.
I agree with you wini. She has been helping me with our own family tree for years and it didnt take much persausion from me to get her to help with this.
Andy
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Hi Andy.
When you get a chance could you please check the Durness parish register for the following. Henrietta MacKenzie born 1834-1835. ( G. G. grandmother ) Her mother Barbara Mac kenzie born 07/02/1794. Her father George Mackenzie born 13/11/1786. Their parents. Barbara's parents John Mackenzie or Macean ic ean ic ceannich ( son of John of John of Kenneth ) and Isobel Mac Kenzie. George's parents. George Mac Kenzie and Ann Munro. All Durness. Many Thanks in advance
Sanders
Hi Again Andy.
I think I am on the wrong track. Sorry about this. Been talking to Muriel. Oldshoremor. This is the Henrietta I am looking for. Henny Mac Kenzie( registered as Henny ) Born 25th April 1833. Still remembered as the having the first clock in the village. Married Malcom Ross ( ship master. Portlovorchie. This is the head stone spelling of this name, about 5 variants. Present day spelling on ordnance survey map Portleorchy, next to Ardmore Loch Laxford. Hennys parents are for sure. George Mac Kenzie and Barbara Mac kay, registered Durness. I thought I had cracked it with the Strathnaver Mackays, now I have to start on this Durness branch. Any information to help me tidy up the Durness end is gratefully appreciated. I have managed to acquire 2 Sutherland maps one circa 1880 and the other a gem of a copy 1654 with Robert Gordon using Timothy Ponts Sutherland survey 1650, printed by Johan Blaeu. Durness spell as ( Durenifh ) At some point when I get out of this self created tangle I am in, I will be able to help any one trying to trace a Township that has long, long gone from any contemporary map of Sutherland
Thanks Sanders
Thanks for trying Andy. I intend to take the direct route this spring by going head stone hunting in Durness. Did the Head stones at Oldshoremor and Scourie last spring. What held me back was the sheer volume of Rosses discovered buried in Kincardine parish ( Easter Ross) churchyard, as I made my way west
Good Hunting. Sanders
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Hi Sanders
Will got onto this for you ASAP.
Andy
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Hi Sanders
Unfortunately as the register only goes upto 1814 I am unable to trace the birth of your Henny MacKenzie. And could not find a marriage of George MacKenzie and Barbara MacKay, so assume they were married after 1814 also.
Let me know if you out any parents names for George or Barbara and I will try again as I assume that there births are probably in the register but as you can imagine there are numerous births for George's and Barbara's.
Andy
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Does anyone know anything about the family of a Margaret Mackay born Durness 1798.She married EVANDER/EDward Maccallumin Durness in 1823.I think her parents were Hugh and Barbara Mackay.Can anyone confirm this and tell me anything about other siblings or maybe parents of this Hugh and Barbara.Ray Scourie
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Hi Ray,
I was unable to find a Margaret Mackay baptised in Durness in 1798. There was a couple, Hugh Mackay and Barbara Mackay who were married Jan 9, 1788 as follows:
Hugh Mackay, alias macUstianmacUiliam macRory, in Hunleam, and BarbaraMackay, alias nin Nish from Melness
(Hugh Mackay, son of Hugh,son of William, son of Roderick/Rory) and (Barbara Mackay, daughter of Angus)
Baptism of their following children:
John 28 Jan, 1789
Angus 12 Nov, 1790
Eupham 6 Jan, 1793
Barbara 5 Apr, 1795
That's all I could see.
Ian
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Hi Ray
Just to let you know, if the Hugh that Ian has found is the correct one then the following looks like it could have been a previous marriage?
28 Feb 1774 Hugh Machustianmacuilammacrory in Hunleam, Ephie MacKay, alias nin Mhorachy Machustian.
Children
9 Dec 1774 Hugh Machustian Macuilleam rory in Hunleam, John
9 Feb 1778 Hugh MacKay, alias Machustian macuilleam macrory, tenent in Hunleam, Isobel
4 Mar 1781 Hugh MacKay, alias machustian macuileam macrory, tenent and taner in Hunleam and Ephie MacKay, Ann
Andy
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Hi All
I know this is off topic but thought I would let you know anyway. I have just got hold of pillimore's marriages for cornwall dating from around 1500 to about 1837 and parish register transcriptions for the parishes of St Winnow and Withiel in Cornwall.
If any of you have ancestors in cornwall let me know by posting requests on the cornwall section of rootschat.
Andy
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Think I may have given the wrong date of birth for Margaret mackay but she married Evander Maccallum in Durness in 1823. Many thanks for your help sofar .Ray
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Hi Ray
Sorry, still not able to locate Margaret MacKay daughter of Hugh. Have looked both forward and back in the register with no luck.
Sorry
Andy
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Hi Andy, Thanks again for taking time to look for Margaret Mackay.I have a copy of her death certificate ( she died at Achriesgill in 1884.),it gives her parents as Hugh Mackay and Barbara Mackay.I also have some copies of marriage and death certificates of some of her family and her name is given as margaret Mackay on each of them.
At the time of the 1881 census she was a widow ,living with her son and family at Shegra,Kinlochbervie.her place of birth on that document is Durness.Maybe this is wrong or maybe they were not very good at their geography! Ray
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Hi Ray,
What age is shown on the death certificate?
Does it say where she was born?
In late 18th century, I think Durness parish boudaries were the same as today, although I am not certain.
Ian
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Hi Ian, Margaret Maccallum, nee Mackay's age was given as 86 years in june 1984.on the death certificate.
Just a thought, I was registrar here for many years and I've known fathers give different dates of marriage when registering their childrens births,so every thing on documents is not always accurate.Maybe Durness was wrong on the census return.Ray
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Sorry, Ray, but just to be sure, is "1984" you quote as date of death, a typo on your part?
Ian
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Sorry about that ,you will have guessed it should have been 1884,Ray
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Andy
Re your reply on the 19th December with regard to Hugh Gunn/Gun marrried to Barbara Mackintosh 19th May 1785, Fairly Durness.
You mentioned Donald MacKintosh alias MacneilBhain sailor in Rispin and Katherine Gunn in Rispin 15-10 1787.
May very well be Barbara's brother
When you or Mum have time could you post the others with the same alias.
I had abandoned the Sutherland lot for a while but have now got back to them
thanks again
Wini
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Hi Wini
This is what I found:-
15/10/1787 Donald MacKintosh alias MacneilBhain, sailor in Rispin to Katherine Gunn in Rispin
Baptisms
29/01/1788 Donald MacKintosh alias MacneilBhain, sailor in Rispond and Catherine Gunn from Eddrachylish, Neil
10/11/1789 Donald MacKintosh alias MacneilBhain, sailor in Rispond and Catherine Gunn from Achulynish, Eddrachylish, Donald
25/04/1792 Donald MacKintosh alias MacneilBhain, sailor who when on land lives commonly at Rispond and Katherine Gunn (Twins), James and Barbara
11/10/1794 Donald MacKintosh alias Bane, sailor in Rispond and Katherine Gunn, Ann
23/03/1797 Donald MacKintosh, alias Bain at Rispond, Mate of the "Fairly of Rispond" and Katherine Gunn, Hugh
Another possible sister:
26/02/1782 John Sutherland in Hunleam to Eupham MacKintosh alias Bain in Achuharasait
Baptisms
01/03/1783 John Sutherland in Achucharasait and Eupham MacKintosh alias Bain, Barbara
15/08/1785 John Sutherland, tenent in Achucharasait and Eupham MacKintosh alias Bain, Marion
25/05/1788 John Sutherland, tenent in Islanddrier, Strathmore and Eupham MacKintosh alias Bain, Margaret
22/05/1791 John Sutherland, tenent in Islanddrier, Strathmore and Eupham MacKintosh alias Bain, Hugh
24/03/1793 John Sutherland, tenent in Islanddrier, Strathmore and Eupham MacKintosh alias Bain, Donald
Hope this helps.
Andy
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This message should go to Wini not to me.
Ray Mackay, Scourie
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Thank you once again Andy, will look at these today.
Can someone tell me where I could get a good map of Sutherland, not a modern one
I can never fathom out the old districts.
wini
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Wini,
have you visited this site? http://www.durness.org/Index.htm
It does have some maps but it also gives you the names and the locations of most of the old townships. You can also buy old Ordnance Survey maps on-line.
Ian
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This message should go to Wini not to me.
Ray Mackay, Scourie
Hi Ray,
any message posted to this thread will be notified to everyone who has ever posted on this thread. If you do not want this to happen you need to go to your personal profile and unsubscribe from the thread.
regards
ChristineR
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Thanks Ian
Who do I buy the Ordnance Survey maps from?
wini
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Ian.
Just had a look at the Durness site, that will be a help.
Thanks again
wini
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Hi Wini
Here are a few other map sites you may want to try:-
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/
http://archivemaps.com/mapco/britisle.htm
Happy hunting.
Andy
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Thank you once again Andy
Don't know where I would be without you
wini
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Hello Andy, Could you please see if you can find a birth for Caroline CAMPBELL born about 1775 in Durness, Sutherland. Fathers name is Donald.
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Hi Rocky
Baptism of Caroline
03/09/1775 Donald Grange, alias Campbell, lately in Sartigrim and Clasneach, now in Islandhall and Ceannabin, Caroline
There is a marriage in 1766 as follows;-
20/11/1766 Donald Grange in Keoldale to Ann MacKay in Clasneach
Other possible children of this marriage:-
13/04/1770 Donald Campbell alias Grange in Clasneach, Christian
23/01/1773 Donald Campbell alias Macrob Grange in Sartigrim, Janet
08/11/1777 Donald Campbell alias Grange tenent in Island Choarie, John
26/08/1780 Donald Campbell alias macrobgrashich tenent in Island Choarie and Ann MacKay nin dholicuilleam macrory, Barbara
21/06/1783 Donald Campbell alias macrobgrange tenent in isalnd choarie and Ann MacKay alias nin Dhonilmacuileamroy, Donald
07/09/1787 Donald Campbell alias macrobgrangich tenent in Island Choarie and Ann MacKay alias nin Dholicuilamroy, Robert
These two baptisms are also possibles but could also be earlier baptisms for Donald and Barbara.
14/12/1770 Donald Campbell alias Grange in Keoldale, Donald
01/01/1774 Donald Campbell alias Grange in Keoldale, Barbara
There are a few other GRANGE families in the area, if you would like a complete breakdown of these let me know.
Looks like Donald is the son of Robert Grange? Dont know what Ann's alias is sorry hopefully someone else maybe able to help you there.
Andy
Andy
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A very brief response:
daughter of Donald, son of red William ( daughter of Donald, son of William, son of Rory ; in the baptism of Barbara - but this might be a misprint, i.e. macRory instead of roy
Ian
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Hello Andy and Ian
Thanks so much for all that information. Much more than I ever expected, as I never gave you much to go on. I only had Caroline and a brother Donald, in my family tree. Really appreciate all the trouble you have gone to. Am very happy with the list too, although I have only been on it a few days. I found more stuff to add to my Morrisons too. Thanks once again.
Kind regards
Carol
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Hi Rocky
Baptism of Caroline
03/09/1775 Donald Grange, alias Campbell, lately in Sartigrim and Clasneach, now in Islandhall and Ceannabin, Caroline
There is a marriage in 1766 as follows;-
20/11/1766 Donald Grange in Keoldale to Ann MacKay in Clasneach
There are a few other GRANGE families in the area, if you would like a complete breakdown of these let me know.
Andy
Hi again Andy
Can I please take you up on your kind offer of a complete breakdown of the GRANGE families in that area. It may help me in future. No hurry, just wherever you have a moment.
Thanks so much
Carol
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Hello Andy
I am wondering if you can help me again please. I have Christina (Christy) McKAY born 2 October 1821 in Durness and she married John WHYTE 24 Feb 1843. I have her parents as George McKAY and Dorathy McKAY, but cannot find any other information on the parents or any other children. Could you please do a search for me, and see if anything comes to light?
Thanks again
Carol
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Hi Carol
Will get it done ASAP.
Andy
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Thank you, thank you!! ;D
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Hello Andy
I am wondering if you can help me again please. I have Christina (Christy) McKAY born 2 October 1821 in Durness and she married John WHYTE 24 Feb 1843. I have her parents as George McKAY and Dorathy McKAY, but cannot find any other information on the parents or any other children. Could you please do a search for me, and see if anything comes to light?
Thanks again
Carol
Andy, I have just been sent the Death details of Christina McKay WHYTE and it gives her parents as John MACKAY (Crofter) and Flora MACKAY ms SUTHERLAND. So could you please see if anything comes up for them. Thank you.
I hope you didn't get around to searching for George and Dorathy?
Kind regards
Carol
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Hi Carol,
One of my 6X G. grandparents were John Mackay and Flora Forbes Sutherland. According to my records, they had a daughter, Christian, christened Sept 16, 1819. If this is "your" Christy, I have some information about her parents and her siblings. I note the date of birth is different.
Hew Morrison's transcript of the Durness Parish Register ends in 1814 so that source will not be of much help with Christy but the IGI may shed some light.
Ian
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Hello Ian
Thanks for contacting me again. I have just found out that the parents I had for Christina Mackay were incorrect!! So that is why the dob is incorrect. My next job was to try and find when she was born to John and Flora. I would be really thrilled with any information that you can give me on her and her parents and siblings. She married my Great Grandfather John WHYTE.
Ian you have helped me before on the HH website. Don't know if you remember me!!!
Kind regards
Carol (nee Whyte)
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Hi Carol,
I have a LOT of information on the the family of John Mackay and Flora Forbes Sutherland. I descend from their daughter Henrietta (Henny) and Angi Lamb decends from their daughter Isabella and most of the information stems from these two daughters. There were seven siblings. I have John Mackay's ancestors back three generations.
There will be a fair amount of typing involved and I hope you will excuse me if we first make sure that this is indeed your family. Does the death certificate give a date of birth for Christian/Christy?
What genealogy software do you use? I use FTM and if we are compatible I could export the file (or part of it, if I can remember how to do it)
Ian
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Hi, again, Carol,
I seem to remember a discussion about Whyte and Bain. Did we resolve it?
Inmy records I have no info. regarding who Christian Mackay married so I did not make the connection before.
Angi Lamb's ancestor married a Sutherland in the next generation and she has copies of the Durness census from 1841 to 1891, showing her family and mine living next door to each other. Interesting to follow them over the years.
Ian
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HI Ian
Yes, I would also like you to make sure this is the same family before you send me anything. I also use FTM. Unfortunately I do not have a death certificate for Christy, only an extract from the Durness Parish Records giving her father as John MACKAY crofter, Deceased, and her mother as Flora MACKAY ms SUTHERLAND. Christina's death date is 22 October 1907 and states her age as 86 years.
Ian, would you like to contact me privately, and I will then forward this Parish Record to you. :P
Waiting to hear back from you.
Carol
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Hello Carol and Ian (I think we have already been in touch Ian)
John M(a)cKay and Flora Forbes Sutherland are my husband's 3 x great grandparents. He is descended from their daughter Isabella 1821-1917, who married Kenneth Sutherland at Durness in Jan 1846.
I too have a deal of info on the family which I am happy to share. Will have to sort it all out though as have had a break from active researching in recent months while establishing my business (not genealogy related!). Pleased to have the time again to get back to the family.
Regards
Ellen.
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Hi Ellen,
Yes, I recall that we exchanged informaion. Glad to see you back at it, again.
Ian
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Hello Ellen
Thanks for writing to me. It would be great if we can help each other. Once you have sorted things out, please feel free to get back to me, and we can compare notes.
Kind regards
Carol
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Hi Ian, Ellen and Carol
Have just got back from working away again to read your recent posts. Amazingly my family are also part of your same family if I am not mistaken. My 4th Great Grandmother Rachel Sutherland b 1782 was the sister of Flora Forbes Sutherland.
If any of you would like information on the decendants of my line let me know. I would also be very interested in any information you could give me.
Carol I have found quite a bit of info on the Grange family and will post it tomorrow.
Andy
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Hello Andy
I guessed you must have been busy. ??? It is really great that so many of us are working on the same family. We can all help each other. I will see what I have got to help you.
Regards
Carol
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Hi Andy,
I believe that Rachel, the sister of Flora Forbes Sutherland, was born 25 March 1785.
Unfortunately, I do not have anything other than birth dates for the siblings of Flora Forbes Sutherland.
Ian
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Hi Ian and Carol
If you send me a PM with your email details I will send you what I have regarding my family from Rachel Sutherland down.
Carol I have found a lot of Grange alias Campbell families in Durness I am posting marriages and some baptisms for your information but if you need me to look for a certain family amongst these let me know.
03/03/1765 Thomas Campbell alias Grange, Murdoch
(possible brother of Donald, 4 other children)
17/01/1766 Iye Grange in Durin and Margaret Campbell in Durin
Iye Grange later referred to as Iye Campbell alias Grange in the baptisms of his 7 children. He later re-married.
04/04/1771 Iye Grange in Durin and Elizabeth MacKenzie Serv.
07/10/1766 George Campbell alias Grange in Ballamhulich, Margaret
(possible brother of Donald, 3 other children recorded)
03/06/1768 Alexander Grange alias Campbell in Achunahainat, Barbara
(possible brother of Donald)
05/11/1778 Hugh Campbell alias Grange, tenent in Sartigrim and Margaret MacKay alias nin Enmacdholicrery in Borley
12/01/1779 William Campbell alias Macnishroy serv in Balnaceil and Elizabeth Campbell alias Grange in Ceoldale
17/03/1782 Kenneth Campbell alias Grange, herd in Grudie and Janet Campbell, Robert
(4 other children)
17/11/1784 John Campbell alias Grange, Chelsea pensioner in Keoldale and Christian MacKay alias nin Eanmhiler in Balamhulich
(6 children recorded)
24/09/1787 Roderick MacKay alias Maceanicolicrery, shoemaker and tenent in Satrigrim and Christian Campbell nin Eangrashich in Keoldale
(later referred to as Christian Campbell alias Grange in baptisms)
30/11/1802 George Campbell alias Grange late R F and Ann MacKintosh, daur of William MacKintosh, late in Durin
Hope this makes sense, let me know if you want any further info.
Andy
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Hi Andy
I don't know how to send a PM :-[. If you can explain I will gladly send you my address.
Thanks for all the Grange alias Campbell families. I will sift through them on the weekend and let you know if I require any further information on them.
Thanks once again for all your help.
Carol
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Hi Carol
Click on my andy_smed name in the top left of this message and when the next window opens go to the bottom of the page and you will see an option to send a personal message.
Andy
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Hi Andy- I have been through all 16 pages of your posts to see if you have already covered the info I am looking for. I cannot make any connections to previous posts so here it is:
John Sutherland born about 1812 (maybe 1814) Durness Scotland
He married Mary McKay daughter of Alexander McKay and Marion McKenzie on March 18, 1846 in Earltown Nova Scotia Canada. Alexander McKay may have had a brother William.
Mother of John Sutherland is a MacKay. Her name is not known but her siblings may be Robert, Alexander, and Elizabeth.
Father Sutherland purported to be youngest brother or son of the Duke of Sutherland, but more likely the youngest son of a peasant who worked on the Duke's estate. He had a sibling Alexander.
Can you find any records that may tie into this family?
Thanks
Emily
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Hi Emily
Sorry for the delay, have been away again. Will check this for you over the mext few days and let you know.
Andy
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Thanks Andy- I have some additional info that I have gathered recently. I have a marriage certificate for Angus Sutherland and Barbara McKay for December 25, 1811 in Durness. There is no information as to whether they had children- they should have had Alexander probably prior to 1812 and John about 1813. Nor is there information about their death whereas my people would have died between 1812 and 1825.
I also have a John Thomas Sutherland born April 4, 1812 to Angus Sutherland (born about 1788) and Barbara MacKay with the word Laingo after it, but nothing on their parents.
There is also a family legend that John Sutherland was related a duke of Sutherland (there is a John Sutherland Earl of Sutherland 1734 can you trace his line?).
I have plotted the first name rule to get potential first names for the generations prior to John. Apparently John's parents died when he was a child and his maternal uncle Robert raised him in Nova Scotia (emigrated in the 20's) John's brother Alexander emigrated to South America. John's children's names are Thomas?(1st born did not survive?) Alexander, John, Hector, Hugh, Maggie, and Thomas (youngest). My husband's family is descended from John's son Alexander.
Does this help or confuse things? I know I am getting dizzier and dizzier working on this.
Thanks again
Cheers, Emily
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I have been researching a family in the Durness OPRs and I am looking for help with the interpretation of a name.
A family listing by another researcher gives neil macEmish as neil son of Thomas.
However, a couple of gaelic speakers have told me that it Neil son of James (Hamish). They have said Thomas would be MacOmish while James is MacEmish.
Can anyone help?!!
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"Tomas" (Toe-mass) is the Gaelic for Thomas. In the genetive case, which it takes following mac, i.e. son of, it is aspirated and an "i" added after the last vowel to give "Thomais", roughly 'hoe-meesh'. Similarly, Seumas (James) becomes Sheumais, roughly Hae-meesh in the genetive case.
The aliases in the Durness PR are given in imitated or phonetic Gaelic and I have not noted many MacEmish listings but I would say it is more likely to be son of James than son of Thomas.
Can you give more information?e.g. the date of the entry. The aliases sometimes varied from one entry to the next and alaso it may be possible to find the father in an earlier registration.
IAN
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Hello Alan
neil macEmish is neil son of James.
Emish or Sheumas is James
Thomas would be Omash - [gen] (Toe-mass/ 'Hoe-mass)
and to clarify a little;
George would be Eorish - (gen) Shawruss/Eoruss
Donald NZ
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Thanks Ian
I am researching various Sutherland families including Mackay connections to Pope families who were in Durness and Scourie. Researchers into the Mackay families from the US who carried out much research in Durness and say they spoke to locals have come up with a name for an ancestor which is at variance with another source. Part of two of the OPR entries of importance are as follows though there are a few others similarly worded;-
Neil MacKay alias MacEmish
Ann Mackay alias nin Neilmacemish
The interpretation made by the US researcher is that this is;
Neil son of Thomas
Ann daughter of Neil who is son of Thomas
The other interpretation I have received from a couple of members of the Melvich Gaelic Choir and in a short passing conversation with Highland Genealogist, Alistair Macleod is;
Neil son of James
Ann daughter of Neil who is the son of James.
There may, of course, be other interpretations!
For my purpose Thomas would best but I am inclined to James and accuracy is more important than convenience!
Help appreciated.
Allan
"Tomas" (Toe-mass) is the Gaelic for Thomas. In the genetive case, which it takes following mac, i.e. son of, it is aspirated and an "i" added after the last vowel to give "Thomais", roughly 'hoe-meesh'. Similarly, Seumas (James) becomes Sheumais, roughly Hae-meesh in the genetive case.
The aliases in the Durness PR are given in imitated or phonetic Gaelic and I have not noted many MacEmish listings but I would say it is more likely to be son of James than son of Thomas.
Can you give more information?e.g. the date of the entry. The aliases sometimes varied from one entry to the next and alaso it may be possible to find the father in an earlier registration.
IAN
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Jess Pope, born in Wick as Janet and whose mother (Ann Pope MS
Sutherland) died in Thurso, is listed in the 1861 census as a 4 year
old Boarder with George McKay and Janet McKay and their family
Alexandrina (20), Hectorina (17), Jean (12), Alexander (10) and Effe
(7). Much searching under Pope and McKay and variations of her
forename has failed to find Jess. I think her father went to
Australia soon after her birth and the death of her mother, his wife,
and died there in 1863. I also suspect that Janet McKay from Brora
might be the aunt or close relative of Jess (Janet).
Can anyone help me with this family? Not just Jess as there may be a
clue in what the others did and who they married as to what happened
to Jess.
Allan
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Emily - don't know if this confuses things further (!), but there is an entry in the Monumental Inscriptions for Sutherland, Balnakeil (which is the Durness burial ground) which may be of interest.
Stone 99.
"Angus Sutherland ground officer Durness 7.11.1827 45, w Bar N' Rob Sutherland 20.4.1872 91 , gs Ken F Sutherland 7.12.1862 10, ggs And McKay 3. 1900 7 months , ed s Robt"
My interpretation of this is
Alexander Sutherland, Ground Officer, Durness, died 07/11/1827, age 45 yrs. His wife Barbara, daughter of Robert, Sutherland died 20/04/1872, age 91 yrs. His grandson Kenneth F Sutherland died 07/12/1862 aged 10 yrs. His great grandson Andrew McKay died March 1900 age 7 months. Stone erected by (Alexander's) son, Robert.
(Please anyone with more knowledge than I, feel free to correct any errors!)
Hope this is of some help.
If they turn out to be your family, I have photos of the burial ground, which is right on the coast, a lovely, windswept place with a stunning view out over the sea. My husband has ancestors buried there, who are also Sutherlands - although I don't see a connection at this stage.
Kind Regards
Ellen.
Added later: Sorry Emily, just noticed that you have already had this info on another thread and discounted them.
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Hi Andy,
I have seen your offer to look up records for Durness and wondered if you could look some up for me? My husband's ancestors came from Durness.
We would appreciate any info about William Mackay and his daughter Mary b. about 1762, Clashneash, Durness who married Donald Ross in Durness. Their daughter was Ann Ross chr. 10.8.1787 Durness and married Donald Whyte 5.2.1808 Durness. If you can tell me anything at all about Mary, her father William and even who her mother was, it would be great.
On the marriage record for Durness, Mary Mackay's name on the marriage entry reads "Mary Mackay alias Nin uillam Macnish / macemish". (or similar)
Many thanks,
Kate Whyte.
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Hi Andy:
My g/grandmother was Isabella (or Isobel) Mackay (DOB 24.08.1840) who married Alexander Holm Mackenzie (DOB 09.11.1846) on 3 Feb 1871 in Cromarty, R&C.
My grandfather, Donald Alexander Mackenzie (DOB 24 July 1873), author & poet, had a foreword written in one of his books by Professor W J Watson, LL.D. D.Litt.Celt. where it states …”Donald A Mackenzie was born in the ancient burgh of Cromarty to A H Mackenzie and Isobel Mackay, a descendant of the famous Sutherland Gaelic poet, Rob Donn"…. (I quote this as I would have thought Professor Watson would have researched this fact).
I have searched and searched and cannot make the connection where Isobel Mackay links with Rob Donn Mackay. Her parents William Mackay married Janet Mackenzie on 20 November 1819 in Cromarty and she had 2 sisters Grace & Justina.
With all these Mackays and Mackenzies marrying each other, no wonder I am confused!!!!!!!
Please help Andy - I would so appreciate any assistance.
Many thanks
Maggie Mackenzie-Goodman
From not so sunny Australia
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Maggie,
Rob Donn was my 5xGG through Christina Donn Calder who married, as her second husband, John ( macUilliam macUisdean macEachain ruaidh) Morrison.
I have read quite a lot about Rob Donn, my best source being perhaps "The World of Rob Donn" by Ian Grimble. I do not know for sure how many children he had but I have traced the descendants of five of them for one generation. At least two of his daughters married Mackays (hardly surprising) but I cannot find a William mackay of approx. the right age among their off-spring . There were two Isobel Mackays among his descendants but their father's name was not William.
One thing I did notice from the information you posted is that William Mackay and Janet Mackenzie seem to have been married for over 20 years before they had any children, which seems unusual. Are you sure that the 1819 marriage was that of the correct couple, i.e. could it have been another William mackay and Janet Mackenzie? The marriage date is important for estimating the DOB of William Mackay.
Ian Morrison
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Maggie,
Subsequent to my previous post, I took a look at the IGI and notice that William Mackay and Janet Mackenzie appear to have had 9 children, as follows:
Grace 13 Mar 1821; Ann 9 Feb 1824; Alexander 13 Mar 1826; Christina 25 Aug 1828; William 3 Apr 1831; Janet Ann 5 Jun 1834; John Mackenzie 21 Jan 1838; Isabella 27 Jul 1840; Justina Anderson Mackenzie 23 Feb 1844. Therefore, there is no reason to doubt the marriage date.
Ian
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Ian - that's fantastic. I only had 3 children, which was puzzling, as it was Grace 1821, Isabella 1840 and Justina 1844 - 20 years almost between 1821 and 1840, so your news is wonderful, as it now fits in.
Now as I said in my original email, supposedly there is a connection to Rob Donn, but where?? I have Rob Donn (1714-1778) marrying when? Janet Calder (1716-1777) - the only children I have listed for them are Isobel Donn Calder, Christian Donn Calder, John Donn Mackay Calder (died bet 1777-1798 while in army service in India & Ceylon) and George Calder b.1769. I do not have DOB for Isobel, Christian & John.
Is there any chance you can put me on the right road please Ian, as reading through the emails listed, you are very knowledgeable.
Thank you for your interest, time and effort - very much appreciated.
Sincerely Maggie
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Maggie,
As you may know, there is some controversy regarding Rob Donn's correct surname. The Mackays claim he is one of them and he is often referred to as Rob Donn Mackay. However, in the Parish Register, which only began in 1764, he and his relatives are recorded as Down (i.e. Donn) or Calder. The only one of his children that I could see in the register is George, born in 1769, and the father is shown as "Rob Down, poet".
The transcription of the register by Hew Morrison, of which several members have photcopies and some have a digital copy, ends in 1814 - for reasons that are not clear, since it would have continued to be maintained until 1855.
The other children of his for which I have partial records are Christiina (or Christian); James; John; Isobel; and Mary. I have guessed at their dates of birth, based on marriage dates or birth dates of their children. I believe he did have other children but they are not recorded in any books that I have.
I think it is only natural for us to wish to be proud of our ancestors and often there are traditions passed down that turn out to be incorrect. However,I'm not suggesting that yours is, because there are some children of Rob Donn not accounted for and you may very well be related. If you ever do confirm this or manage to discover more about Rob Donn's descendants, please let me know.
BTW, Rob Donn's wife was Janet Mackay.
Ian
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Dear Ian:
Thank you for your information.
Questions:
1. I have found the following spellings recorded, "Donn", "Donne", "Donn" and "Down"?
2. I have also noted the controversy of whether it is "Rob Donn Calder", "Rob Down" or Rob Donn Mackay?
3. Where did the name "Donn" come from or does it have a Gaelic meaning?
4. His brother was named "Donald Dubh" - what does that mean? (Donald the Brown some say). Any other siblings?
5. It is also suggested that he was adopted by the Mackays?
6. Was it Janet Mackay (nee Mackay) he married and do you know DOM?
7. Wd love to receive the partial records you have if that would not be too much trouble.
8. I will of course let you know of any information I am able to "dig up" (so to speak). With kind regards Maggie
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Maggie,
I will try to answer your questions:
1,2,3 &4. “Donn” in Gaelic means brown. When applied to a person, I think it meant brown hair but many people would have had brown hair so perhaps it also referred to complexion. At that time, in every day conversation, people did not use surnames, presumably because of the duplication of names. Just imagine how many John Mackays there would have been. Instead, they were referred to and identified by an “eke” name. In the parish register, the minister refers to them as “aliases”. These eke names took several forms, the principal ones being patronymics (e.g. son of X, or mac [father’s name] mhic [grandfather’s name]) and physical attributes (e.g. Donn/brown; Dubh/black; Ban/white/fair; Og/smaller/younger) Sometimes the eke name is retained for several generations and takes on the fuction of a family name, as was the case with Rob Donn. His father and brothers all had the eke name Donn. The siblings that I know of are: William, Donald, and Gilbert.
Two entries in the PR for 1765 might illustrate the point:
“Hugh Calder, alias Down, in Balamhulich, christened Mary”
“Gilbert Calder, alias Down, in Teagisgil, John”
(Gilbert was one of Rob’s brothers. I don’t know who Hugh was.)
The Gaelic used in the Durness Parish Register, and several other places, was mostly phonetic representations. For example “Down” appears to be fairly close to how “Donn” would be pronounced. However, I think Gaelic is difficult to represent phonetically and “Donn” might also be represented by “Don-yuh”, or somewhere between the two.
There were many Calders in the parish of Durness, and elsewhere in the North of Scotland. They were often called Ekel. I do not know whether they were Mackays but I doubt that they were descended from Aodh (from whom the clan gets its name). Then, again, neither were most “Mackays”. They just assumed the name when a surname became required. They would probably have been adherents of that clan at one time.
5. I do not think he was adopted by the Mackays. When he was a young lad, he was taken into the service of John Mackay of Claiseneach, or, as he was known in Gaelic, Iain mac Eachain ‘ic Iain, a cousin of the Chief. Iain lived at Muisel in Strathmore and was Manager of the chief’s cattle business. Rob Donn was a cowherd and lived at the main house among the servants.
6. Yes his wife’s name was Janet Mackay, daughter of Thomas Mackay. I do not know the marriage date. It would have been before the PR commenced.
7. My records are in a data base – FTM. I have not been able to discover how to extract certain parts of information and transmit them electronically, other than to someone who has compatible software. What do you use?
Ian
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Thank you so much IanB:
1. Understand.
2. Do you have DOB/DOD or DOM's for his siblings?
3. It is difficult to ensure you have the right name when it is phoenetic. I was looking for a "Perry" and it was recorded as "Pirrie"!!!
4. He was very young when he went to live with John Mackay - do you know how old he was?
5. Thomas Mackay - any DOB/DOM/DOD or wife's name?
6. Yes I have FTM as well.
Thank you once again. Sincerely Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
I am on vacation and will try to answer when I return and have access to my files. I wsill also try to isolate the dependents and ancestors and siblings of Rob Donn and send you a ftm file. Would you please send me your Email address by PM.
Kind regards.
Ian
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Hi Ian:
As requested, email address is:
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Thanks, Maggie. If you are concerned about your Email address being on the list permanently, so to speak, perhaps you should try to edit this post and send me a personal message.
Ian
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Thanks Ian - how to I go about doing that?
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Hello Maggie
Click on IanB and a new page will open. Scroll down and you will see in blue "Send this Rootschatter a personal message" and click on that.
Best wishes
Carol
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Thanks Carol, but how do I delete the message I already sent?
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Hello Maggie
Now that is a good question, and am afraid I don't know the answer to it. Maybe some other good samaritan reading this will be able to help you. Sorry I can't help you on this one.
Carol
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Maggie,
I hope I can help you. Go to the message where you put your email address. On the top right hand side there should be a 'modify' button. Click on that and your original posting comes back and you can change what you wrote.
I have done this several times and I think that was what I did!!!
Hope it works. (Yes, it does. I have just tried it to see!!! :D)
KateW
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Thanks KateW - it worked.
It was nice of you to suggest it!!!!
Sincerely
Maggie
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George McKay and Janet Pope married 28 Jan 1831 have a son John listed in the 1841 census as a ten year old. I cannot find this birth but have found the births of their other children born before and after this census. Can anyone shed any light on this John McKay born about 1830/31 or indeed on any members of the family?
Allan
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Maggie,
I have just noticed that your message still has the email address. Thought you would like to know.
I'm not sure why, if you thought you had changed it!! Have another go.
KateW
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Thnks again Kate W - I thought I had deleted it. Have now!!!!!!!
Sincerely
Maggie ;D
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Hello Carol and Ian (I think we have already been in touch Ian)
John M(a)cKay and Flora Forbes Sutherland are my husband's 3 x great grandparents. He is descended from their daughter Isabella 1821-1917, who married Kenneth Sutherland at Durness in Jan 1846.
I too have a deal of info on the family which I am happy to share. Will have to sort it all out though as have had a break from active researching in recent months while establishing my business (not genealogy related!). Pleased to have the time again to get back to the family.
Regards
Ellen.
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Hello Ellen
I am descended from Christina (Christy) 1819-1907, who was Isabella's sister. I will send you my email address offlist, so we can swap info.
Regards Carol
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Kia ora Andy
My apologies for taking so long to get back in here to find the info regarding Merran MACLEOD, wife of Neil DINGWALL of Durness.
I just hope you are still looking in at this thread. You posted the message December 2006 :-[
Jeni
Christchurch, Aotearoa/New Zealand
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Hello Ellen
I answered this email last year, and haven't heard back from you, so hoping to jog your memory. I am related through John and Flora's daughter Christina. Would love to swap info.
Kind regards
Carol
Hello Carol and Ian (I think we have already been in touch Ian)
John M(a)cKay and Flora Forbes Sutherland are my husband's 3 x great grandparents. He is descended from their daughter Isabella 1821-1917, who married Kenneth Sutherland at Durness in Jan 1846.
I too have a deal of info on the family which I am happy to share. Will have to sort it all out though as have had a break from active researching in recent months while establishing my business (not genealogy related!). Pleased to have the time again to get back to the family.
Regards
Ellen.
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Hello Everyone
I have been away for some time but I am finally back. Work and everything taking over my life.
Hope all you Rootschaters are well and have had a lot of luck in finding your ancestors.
Should anyone require a look-up, please let me know.
Nice to be back.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
I have seen your offer to look up records for Durness and wondered if you could look some up for me? My husband's ancestors came from Durness.
We would appreciate any info about William Mackay and his daughter Mary b. about 1762, Clashneash, Durness who married Donald Ross in Durness. Their daughter was Ann Ross chr. 10.8.1787 Durness and married Donald Whyte 5.2.1808 Durness. If you can tell me anything at all about Mary, her father William and even who her mother was, it would be great.
On the marriage record for Durness, Mary Mackay's name on the marriage entry reads "Mary Mackay alias Nin uillam Macnish / macemish". (or similar)
Many thanks,
Kate Whyte.
Hi Andy,
This is a message I posted last July 2007 when I found your offer to look up information on the Durness Register. I wonder if you could find any info for me now? Anything about this family would be appreciated.
Hopefully - KateW :)
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Nice to see you back Andy.
I am still at a dead end with my Gunns and have abandoned them in the meantime.
Will get back to them sometime.
wini
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Hi Andy
Welcome back. I wondered what had happened to you, nice to know you are okay.
Regards
Carol
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Thanks for the welcome back.
Kate I am on the case.
Andy
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Thanks very much Andy. :D
Kate.
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Hi Kate
Not sure if you have this stuff already, but this is what I found.
Marriage
03/07/1778 Donald Ross, Late cook at Balnaceil and Mary MacKay alias nin uilliammacnish at Clasneach
(Not brill at Patronymics, but it reads something like daughter of William son of Angus)
Children
31/07/1779 Donald Ross, Late cook in Balnaceil now in Clasneach and Mary MacKay, JOHN
21/09/1781 Donald Ross tenent in Uaibeg and Mary MacKay, DONALD
27/06/1784 Donald Ross tenent in Uaibeg and Mary MacKay alias nin Uileam, WILLIAM
10/08/1787 Donald Ross tenent in Uaibeg, from parish of Dornoch and Mary MacKay, ANN
27/12/1790 Donald Ross tenent in Uaibeg and Mary MacKay, ANGUS
01/07/1793 Donald Ross tenent in Uaibeg and Mary MacKay alias nin Uilam, DONALD
23/09/1796 Donald Ross farmer in Uaibeg and Mary MacKay, ISOBEL
ANN ROSS
05/02/1808 Donald White in Clasneach and Ann Ross in Saingo
27/12/1808 Donald Whyte, weaver and little tenent in Clashneach and Ann Ross, ANN
05/06/1810 Donald White, weaver in Clashneach and Ann Ross, DONALD ROSS
DONALD WHITE
I have looked through the register and there is a likely candidate.
Baptism
09/10/1784 Donald Whyte, tenent in Balamhulich and Janet Gordon, DONALD
Other children
06/11/1773 Donald White in Balamhulich, HUGH
22/09/1776 Donald White alias Macdholicomash, tenent in Balamhulich, JANET
23/01/1781 Donald White tenent in Balamhulich and Janet Gordon, JOHN
Marriage
09/01/1770 Donald White alias Macdholicomash in Balamhulich and Janet Gordon
(Donalds Patronymic, my guess would be Son of Donald son of Thomas)
There are two possible brothers of Mary MacKay also based on the having the same patronymic, a Donald Mackay alias Macuilliam Macnish and a Robert MacKay alias Macuilliam Macnish. Let me know if you want the details of these also.
Hope this helps.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Thanks so much, that's great!! Really kind of you to trawl through records on my behalf. ;D Especially on Bank Holiday!!
What form are the Parish records in, CD or paper? Give me a bit of time to look at my records and compare as one or two names look familiar but I can see many extra you have found.
Kate.
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Hello again Andy,
I've had a good look. I already found the marriage details of Donald Ross and Mary Mackay from the parish register on Scotland's People so was able to print off the entry for that. I would like to know about their parents if possible. I wonder if their births may have been in the Parish Register and showng the father at least? As you say, from Mary's Gaellic name it looks as if her father was William. The Family Search records (Pedigree Resource File) shows the marriage and if you click on Mary's father William it shows his father as James. (It goes back 21 generations to 1060 and has some interesting characters. (If only they all had that much info)
The details about their children are great. Donald obviously progressed from Tenant to farmer - which is positive!!
Ann Ross (and Donald White/yte's) details are for the right one but I think the Donald White you have found married to Janet Gordon is our Donald's uncle (brother of his father). I have Carole Nortje (Whyte) to thank for a lot of the Whyte records I have.
Our Donald's father John was married to Ann Fraser in (I think) 1765. His patronymic name was Macuilliam Macomash so we thought his father was William and grandfather must have been Thomas. I wonder why the person we thought was his brother (Donald who married Janet Gordon) has the patronymic name Macdholicomash which as you say looks like son of Donald son of Thomas ???
Yes, I am interested to know more about the brothers of Mary Mackay, Donald and Robert. :D You offered details of those & I would like to know more if you have it.
Also anything you can find about the previous generations of:-
John and Donald Whyte- father William b. abt 1700 Durness.
mother of Ann Fraser (daughter of John Fraser) chr. 6 Mar 1742 Golspie.
parents of Donald Ross b abt 1750 Balnaceil.
mother of Mary Mackay (nin Uilliam)
Am I right in thinking that it was often only the father recorded?
The names are nearly as frustrating as my Lewis and Davies Welsh side - so many name repetitions!!
Thanks so much for looking - hope you can find me something else.. ;D
Kate.
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Andy,
I see looking back to your first post on this thread that your Durness parish register goes back to 1760 so I suppose the dates I've asked for will be pre these records. ::)
Kate.
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Hi Kate
Yes the parish register does only go back to 1760 but I will have a look anyway to see if I can find anything.
I know exactly where you are coming from regarding common names. My surname is Smith and I have Thomas's also in my family. Its a nightmare!!
Will keep you posted.
Andy
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Andy where do I search to find births or christenings (other than the IGI)being issue from a marriage after 1817. Have got some elusive McIntosh's.
Thanks Cheryl
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Hi Kate,
I do not wish to be discouraging, but , although the J & J website is a tremendous effort, I have noticed several mistakes, mainly in connecting Mackay families in the Durness P.R. to known families, e.g those published in the Book of Mackay, without stating sources. This might be the case with Mary Mackay. If I recall it correctly, her father's patronymic was Mac Uilleam MacNish. Nish is a name often recorded in the Durness P.R. and apparently stems from the name Naos, a form of Aonghus, i.e. Angus. After "Mac" it takes the genitive "MacNaois" (in imitated Gaelic "MacNish"). This means that William's father would be Angus, not James. When I find some time, I will browse through the Book of Mackay for a William who is the son of Angus.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Very good of you to take interest and thanks for the offer to look. Do you have a copy of the Book of Mackay or is it in a record office?
KateW.
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Hi Kate,
I do have a copy of The Book of Mackay, acquired some time ago. Some large libraries, often reference libraries, have one.
It used to be on line at this address:
http://books.google.com/books?id=GiMNAAAAYAAJ
Good luck,
Ian
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What a great thread!
My gggrandfather was John R. Morrison who was born ca1806 according to his headstone and death record. His parents were Neil and Janet Morrison but I have found nothing else about them.
His wife was Catherine MacKay who I believe was a daughter of Donald MacKay and Catherine MacLeod and was born in 1805. I also believe, but no proof, that they were married in 1826. (This from the IGI). They emigrated to Shelburne, Nova Scotia ca 1827 where he acquired land and eventually became the ferryman at Jordan River.
I was wondering if there was anything in the record concerning John R. and his parents. I don't know what the R stands for - could be Ross as he had a son John Andrew Ross Morrison.
There were a number of Scottish families that came to Shelburne from Sutherlandshire in the early 1800s. Two of them were brothers William and Robert MacKay, William in 1803 and Robert in 1816. William married Catherine Morrison of Thurso, his cousin, whose parents were William Morrison and Margaret Ross. William and Catherine were my ggggrandparents
Robert MacKay married Janet Murray, the granddaughter of Rob Donn, in 1816 shortly before they came to Shelburne. Her father was Hugh, a son of John and Ann (Morrison) Murray and her mother was Christina, a daughter of Robert and Janet (MacKay) Donn. This info is from some typewritten notes that I got from my aunt many years ago and was originally written by Robert and Janet MacKay's grandson, Henry Squarebriggs MacKay.
Thanks for any help.
Gerald
There are many descendants of both brothers in the Shelburne area.
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Hi Gerald,
I can confirm some things but not others. The Baptism of Catherine Mackay was recorded in the Durness Parish Register June 22, 1805, parents; Donald Mackay farmer in Achunahanait, and Catherine MacLeod.
I could not find a baptism for John R Morrison, or a marriage.
I could not find a marriage of Robert Mackay and Janet Murray but I can tell you that there was a Janet Murray born to Hugh Murray and Christina Calder/Donn/Mackay Sept 15, 1788. When Hugh Murray died, Christina married a John Morrison (mac Uileam, mac Uisdean, mac Eachainn ruaidh) They were my 4 x great grandparents. You might find it interesting to read "The world of Rob Donn" by Ian Grimble.
It would help to find some of your ancestors if you knew the places of birth and marriage.
In the meantime, I will check a few other sources.
Ian Morrison
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Thanks, Ian, I appreciate your prompt answer.
Because Catherine was a native of Durness parish, I assumed John R. was as well but he could have been from another. His death record just mentions Sutherlandshire. I will try elsewhere.
Thanks again,
Gerald
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Gerald,
This site covers part of your family
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/l/a/Jennie-Blades-NS/GENE3-0001.html
I have some other information which I shall try to put topgether, tomorrow.
Ian
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Gerald:
Keoldale, mentioned in the above web site, is a large farm (and community) just south of Durness, which suggests that the christenings of William and Robert and the marriage of their parents might be recorded in the Durness Parish Register. However, I cannot find any mention of them. Another puzzling thing is that William married his cousin who was from Thurso. I suppose you might find something if you searched ScotlandsPeople ( or whatever the name is - I don't use it because I am too Scots.)
The entry for the marriage of Donald Mackay and Katherine MacLeod is quite lengthy and informative:
"Corporal Donald Mackay (son of William Mackay, late farmer in Achuhanait, and Eupham MacLeod, his relict) , R.F. Highlanders . . . Katherine MacLeod. daur. of George MacLeod, Piper in Ceanlochbhirobhie*. 11 Dec, 1798" The MacLeods were a piping family in the parish. *Kinlochbervie
Ian Grimble, in "The World of Rob Donn", mentions a piper by the name of George MacLeod who married a Catherine Mackay, the piper being a friend of Rob Donn. Perhaps this was him.
Their marriage entry 1775, 1 Feb : George macLeod, piper, . . . Catherine Mackay, in Ceanlochbhirovie.
I hope this helps.
Ian
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Thanks again, Ian, I really appreciate the research you have done on my behalf.
I checked out that link to Jennie Blades' site and she has done a great deal of work. William MacKay (she says William Currey MacKay) died in 1829 rather than 1867 and is buried in the Shelburne Presbyterian Cemetery. Our problem in Shelburne is that the Presbyterian records are missing from 1783, when the town was founded, until the mid 1820s which creates many a genealogical problem.
I downloaded the Book of MacKay from Google books and will print it off one of these days because I don't relish reading books off the computer. Not recommended to curl up and fall asleep with a computer on your lap. :-) I had a look for "The World of Rob Donn" at Chapters-Indigo but they are out of stock. Will try the local library and may find it there, after all this is New Scotland.
I mentioned earlier that a number of families from Durness and area came to Shelburne in the early 1800s, Hugh Morrison, son of Hugh, was one of them. He was born ca 1872, had been a private in Reay's Fencibiles, and became a school teacher at Shelburne. Another was George Morrison and his wife Catherine. He was b.ca 1805, John Bethune and his wife Ann Morrison came there in 1848 and there was a brace of William Morrisons that don't seem to fit anywhere and a Robert Morrison who kept a road house. Then in 1817, Donald, Robert, David, Hugh and Donald (2) MacKay, Hugh and William Morrison and Finley Bethune took up land at Clyde River, about 20 miles from Shelburne.
Thanks for the item on the marriage of Donald MacKay and Katherine MacLeod. It is always nice to see some flesh on the ancestral bones. Their daughter was raised by her MacLeod grandmother according to an old letter I read.
Many thanks,
Gerald
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Hi All - Like Gerald, I trace my McKay family to William and Catherine Morrison McKay who came to Nova Scotia in the first decade of the nineteenth century. Let me shorthand my line: William C. McKay and Catherine Morrison to Margaret McKay (1806-1899) who married George Swansburg;
Gerald is quite correct in that there are many who trace their ancestry to William and his brother Robert in that area. There was, however, another set of McKay families quite possibly related. I wonder if they ancestry or alliances would hold any clues to the origins of our Donald and Barbara Morrison McKay? Could you please entertain this question for a moment?
I've found a few distinct lines in Shelburne. The early ones trace their origins to regimental soldiers who mustered out at Port Roseway after the American Revolution and those (like William & Robert) who came to the area in the early 19th century. There is one line, however, that possibly shares blood ties with William and Robert Mckay.
There was a David McKay who by tradition was born in Scotland in 1793 and left Thurso to Nova Scotia in the first quarter of the nineteenth century. He married a Janet McPherson (1799-1893), who was the daughter of Lauchlan McPherson and Elizabeth Urquardt.
With this said, does anyone know of a particular context that would have lead/forced William or his parents to Thurso by the 1800s? I've tried to be objective and not wedded to any theories about a possibly connection between the families of David McKay and the brothers William and Robert. I have come to think of Thurso as merely a jumping off point for my (Gerald's) William and this David McKay.
Would there be any record for a David McKay born in 1793 in Durness or perhaps nearby Balkaniel (sp)? His family included the following boys: Lauchlan (for her father) William, David, Donald and Peter. Beyond names, I have few hints as to his parents possible identity.
I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments on the movements of the McKays between Sutherland and Caithness during this time period.
Best wishes,
Inez Reed
Question, is Doane an anglicised version of Donn? It appears as a middle name used in David's son Peter's family.
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Hi Inez:
I must be thick, but I couldn't find how to answer your PM so will answer it here.
I'm assuming your grandfather was "young Sutton" Walker and his parents were Sutton and Jane (Swansburg) Walker. Jane's sister Catherine was my ggrandmother who married Neal Morrison of Jordan Ferry. I guess that would make us 3rd cousins.
On to William McKay and Catherine Morrison. All I have is a typewritten note sent to my aunt in 1954 from ? and it says Wm was born in 1777 and married his cousin Catherine Morrison in 1803. She was the daughter of William Morrison and Margaret Ross. Margaret was the daughter of Sir John Ross of Aberdeen. Catherine died in Shelburne in 1872 and her death record says she was born in Glasgow. I went searching through the IGI and found a Catherine chr. 3 Jun 1780 in Glasgow- parents William Morrison and Margaret Ross. Other later children were chr. in Thurso. Had a search in Aberdeen and found that William and Margaret married on 13 May 1779. Also found a Margaret Ross chr. 05 May 1746 to John Ross and Barbara Pirie. I don't know how good this info is but it is a start.
happy hunting
Gerald
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Hi Gerald - Yes, I think we may have cracked the PM code ;D My grandfather was young Sutton. I remember him speaking of an auntie who lived at Jordan Ferry. We are, indeed, third cousins.
Prior to this email, I had only known what my grandfather Sutton told me about his grandmother's family. I remember asking him where Catherine McKay came from and he replied "Glasgow". He also said that she was the granddaughter of Sir John Ross but not the Sir John Ross we know as the explorer.
What you've outlined pretty well fleshes out what grandfather Sutton had told me many, many years ago.
Now the McKays, that's another kettle of fish and probably very elusive fishes at that! Do you think that the David McKay )b. 1793) who came to Shelburne around 1815 and married Janet McPherson was related to our William? One of his grandchildren carried Currie as a middle name. One named Margaret (b. 1856) married Thomas Swansburg.
I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on the subject either through PM or via this forum.
Cheers,
Inez
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My great grandmother Isabella Mackay & her 8 siblings were born in Durness.
Isabella Mackay born 27 Jul 1840. She married Alexander Holm Mackenzie on 20 Nov 1819 in Cromarty. In an article written about my grandfather, Donald Alexander Mackenzie, it stated that "Isabella Mackay was a direct descendant of Rob Donn - Rob Donn Mackay." I have yet to make the connection.
Is there someone out there who may have an interest or connections to my Mackays?
Thank you.
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
It would appear that one of your year-dates is incorrect, i.e. born 1840; marrried 1819.
Also, it would help if you told us the names of Isabella's parents.
Rob Donn appears in the Durness parish register under several different surnames, the most common being Donn/Down or Calder. At least 2 of his daughters married Mackays.
Ian
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Hi Ian: Sorry about that-marriage date was Isabella's parents, William Mackay b.11 Jun 1791 Kilmuir Easter and Janet Mackenzie b.1802 in Cromarty - married 20 Nov 1819 in Cromarty.
Isabella Mackay married Alexander Holm Mackenzie on 3 Jan 1871 in Church of Scotland, Cromarty and had 8 children - 2 notables are Donald Alexander Mackenzie and William Mackay Mackenzie - you may wish to "google" for further information.
Yes I was aware of the different surnames of Rob Donn but cannot make the connection - do you have his lineage?
I also have Alexander Mackay b.30 April 1756 who married an Anne Matheson on 24 Feb 1785 in ROC. Please let me know if you want any further information. Kind regards Maggie
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Does anyone know how to best go about getting an OPR look-up on the cheap (yes I'm optimistic)? It occurred to me that I had a marriage date for our William McKay and Catherine Morrison in Thurso in 1803 and a copy may have more than listed in the IGI. Do most of the OPRs contain information on groom's town, bride's town? Has anyone used the LDS family history centres to go through the OPRs?
Cheers,
Inez, the ever tight-fisted
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Don't forget the Durness Parish Register 1764-1814 is available on CD.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi All - I found an obituary for an Alexander Morrison who died in 1884 in New Brunswick. The text states that Alexander was born (about) 1796 in Ellon, Aberdeenshire but grew up in Golspie. His father was in the employee of the Duchess of Sutherland. He emigrated to New Brunswick, Canada in 1811 with his family (whole or in part).
Would anyone have any guesses about Alexander's family, specifically, his parents?
Sincerely,
Inez
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I am trying to track down information about my 5xggrandparents Hector Morrison & Barbara Fraser. Unconfirmed information shows Hector born in 1748, Barbara in 1857, and their marriage in 1773. A couple of their children may have been born in Scotland also (Hector, Catherine, Alexandre, Barbara, and / or Marianne). I suspect that some of this information may be in the Durness Parish Register book.
They emigrated to New York shortly thereafter, and apparently fled to Canada at the time of the American Revolution. I have a pretty good trail once they reached Canada, but before then is pretty sketchy. Also, I've not been able to definitively link the Hector Morrison & Barbara Fraser in Scotland with the Hector & Barbara Morrison in Canada. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Mark Cooper.
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The marriage of Hector Morrison, Sartigrim and Barbara Fraser, Achunahainat, took place on 6 September 1773 and is listed in the Durness Records on page 63, Parish Register of Durness 1764-1814, Scottish Record Society, Edinburgh, Vol. 26.
Cheers,
Inez
Now where did they (the children) end up? Shelburne, NS or elsewhere in the Maritimes
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From Betty Loomis UE regarding questions on John Ross
Responses re John Ross who settled in Hopetown, Gaspe
[John married Catherine Morrison, daughter of Hector Morrison, a loyalist who moved to the same region in 1784 to a town called New Carlisle.]
The following is extracted from material received from Yvan Goulet a direct descendant of Alexander, son of Barbara Morrison.
"Barbara , 1st. married to Hector Morrison, Loyalist, whose farm - according to Burleigh's list of confiscated lands - was at Kortright's Patent, Tryon County, State of New York and was confiscated in 1783.
In Return of Royalists & their families, dated 05 Sept. 1779 at Machiche Camp, Mrs. Morrison is listed as having three children with her.
On March 25,1781 she is referred to as a "poor widow" - 4 children, 2 under age 6 and 2 above.In one document concerning refugees, Barbara is reported as having been born in Scotland, her name appears among those of other women who came from New York, Pennsylvania, England, Ireland... She is unattached to any military unit.
Then we find that Barbara was married to a Donald Fraser and in 1784, Barbara (Barbary) married Duncan McCraw (McCrawd) (McKra) in the Anglican Church, Three Rivers and settled at St.Cuthbert as a farmer, which was near Machiche (Yamachiche).
Duncan McCraw died 10 June,1803 and in his Will he gives the names of his wife's four children borne from Hector Morrison and then the names of his own nine children"
Hector Jr, Alexander, Barbara, Marianne are believed to be Barbara & Hector Morrison's children. Alexander m: Julia Revour (Yvan's ancestors).
Names of the other children (by Duncan McCRaw) are - Mary b: 16 June 1785, Ann b: 05 July 1786, Isabella b: 25 July,1787,Twins: Donald & Jennet b: 27 Aug. 1789, Duncan Jr. b: 17 July,1791, Alexander 19 Jan. 1793, Sarah b: 01 Feb. 1795 and Elizabeth b: 31 May, 1798.
[Unless a middle name, perhaps Catherine was from a different family?]
...Bev Loomis UE, Little Forks Branch
Happy Hunting,
Inez
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Thank you very much for the responses. Most of the commonly known information about Hector & Barbara comes from three web postings. I have been chasing down the primary sources, but still some questions, inconsistencies, and holes remain.
John married Catherine Morrison, daughter of Hector Morrison, a loyalist who moved to the same region in 1784 to a town called New Carlisle.
I agree that this seems to strongly suggest that Catherine was a daughter of the Hector Morrison I'm researching and not some other Hector Morrison living at the time (there appear to have been several), despite the fact that her name is not listed in Duncan McCraw's will.
"Barbara , 1st. married to Hector Morrison, Loyalist, whose farm - according to Burleigh's list of confiscated lands - was at Kortright's Patent, Tryon County, State of New York and was confiscated in 1783.
In Return of Royalists & their families, dated 05 Sept. 1779 at Machiche Camp, Mrs. Morrison is listed as having three children with her.
On March 25,1781 she is referred to as a "poor widow" - 4 children, 2 under age 6 and 2 above.In one document concerning refugees, Barbara is reported as having been born in Scotland, her name appears among those of other women who came from New York, Pennsylvania, England, Ireland... She is unattached to any military unit.
Then we find that Barbara was married to a Donald Fraser and in 1784, Barbara (Barbary) married Duncan McCraw (McCrawd) (McKra) in the Anglican Church, Three Rivers and settled at St.Cuthbert as a farmer, which was near Machiche (Yamachiche).
Would all of these references have come from Burleigh's book? I have requested a copy through inter-library loan, but if anyone knows if the text is online anywhere I'd appreciate it.
This brings us to the question of the last name Fraser. We have the Barbara Fraser and Hector Morrison in the marriage record from Scotland, but that is the only primary source reference that I have found to it. It seems unlikely that Barbara had married someone else in Scotland before Hector (unless she was really, really young), and while she may have married Donald Fraser in Canada before marrying Duncan McCraw, it would be a pretty big coincidence that both of their names were already Fraser (I haven't found a source for that marriage yet either).
It seems that the key to this whole thing would be an immigration record that places Hector, Barbara, and some set of children on a boat between Scotland and New York. I'm still looking.
Finally, to answer your question about where the children ended up: I am descended from Hector and Barbara's son Hector (as opposed to Hector's son Hector by Ann Lane). Barbara and Duncan McCraw moved to St. Gabriel de Brandon while Hector and Ann Lane settled in New Carlisle--there are lots of Drouin Collection entries for the family.
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Hi Mark - In trolling through the UELAC site, Betty Loomis' chapter seems to have accepted Yvan Goulet's documentation. There's little explanation other than that it had been accepted. I don't think that Burleigh's format was like that found in the text I sent you. I saw a sample entry of Burleigh's work and it seemed far more detailed and "legal" in its tone. I think Ms. Loomis/Mr. Goulet excerpt bits for publication in the UELAC website. While I've had zero luck getting them to share their references, it may be worth while to contact that chapter and see what they got from Goulet.
The reference that I sent along to you on Hector's marriage was taken from the online text of the Durness Register. If you look at the entries, it is usually noted when the bride was widowed. I think Fraser was her maiden name.
Regarding Ann Lane, I see there's some debate on if Hector was one or two men. It could be the same man given the nature of the fighting in Schoharie, NY. Barbara may have thought she was a widow. With that number of children under the age of eight, she have plenty of motivation to make another marriage. If it were the same Hector, Barbara and their children would have been well ensconced in a new life.
I'll have a look online and see if Burleigh's work comes up anywhere.
Let me know what you find, please,
Inez
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Andy, you are a star, many thanks for the offer - you might be sorry you did!
(By the way before I start, is it possible to purchase a copy? I would happily do my own look ups if I could get hold of one)
In the meantime anything you can find on any of the following would be much appreciated:
John Sutherland (or MacRory) married to Barbara McKenzie who had Roderick Sutherland, ch 09.09.1793 @ Durness. They also had John b.1787, Flora Forbes b.1792 and Rachel b.1785.
Also George McKay and Jean Morrison who married I think 19.01.1790 @ Durness. think Jean was b. 04.02.1771 @ Durness and her father might have been George.
they had a daughter Mary McKay b. 15.11.1792 @ Durness.
There's lots more but those would be great to help me on my way.
Many thanks
Ellen.
Hi
I am trying to find out who Roderick Sutherland, ch 09.09.1793 @ Durness married.
I have seen 2 different wives: -
Mary MacKenzie born 1791/92, died 1861/71
or
Mary MacKay born 1792 Crospoll, Durness, Sutherland, Scotland, died 1867 Sangomore, Durness, Sutherland, Scotland.
I have a picture of the Tombstone from Balnakiel Cemetery.....In memory of Rory Sutherland who died at Saingo 24th March 1864 aged 72 years. Also his Wife Mary Mackay who died 18th March 1867 aged 75 years. Erected by their Son Angus.
Angus Christening: 2 Dec 1834, Durness, Sutherland, Scotland.
Children of Roderick (Rory) Sutherland and Mary MacKay:
Kenneth Sutherland, John Sutherland, Boyce Mackenzie Sutherland, Jean or Jane Sutherland and Agnus Sutherland.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Suz
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Hi Suz,
The Sutherlands and the Mackays from Durness are sometimes difficult to unravel. Apart from trying to establish which Mary married the Roderick Sutherland born 09.09.1793, can you tell us who you are trying to trace?
A distant cousin, Angie Lamb, sent me some of the information she had found, and she has him marrying Mary Mackenzie, but she did not send a confirming reference.
I can tell you, though, that at least three you have shown as children of Roderick and Mary Mackay were, in fact, children of Mary Mackenzie. They are Kenneth (Nov 8, 1820); John (Oct 20, 1823); and Boyce MacKenzie Mar 26, 1826). Angie has shown all those you listed as children of Mary Mackenzie, and I can confirm that Jane/Jean and Angus are shown as siblings of Boyce in the 1851 census.
It is curious that in the Balnakeil Burial Ground, #67 records Kenneth Sutherland (Angie's family); #68 records Boyce Sutherland (again Angie's family) and #69 records Rory Sutherland (and Mary Mackay (the one you mentioned)
I suppose it is just possible that Mary Mackenzie and Mary Mackay are one and the same?
Not much help I'm afraid; but don't give up.
Ian
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Hello, I've noticed the kind offers of help and the detailed replies you've been giving and wondered if you've come across my Mackays? One of my ancestors, Thomas Louttit, married Margaret Mackay in 1837 in Rousay. She states her age in 1841 as 36 and born Dornoch. I found a baptism in Durness by Dornoch on Scotlands People and Ancestry show:
John Mackay in Sartigrim, shepherd from Strathy,and ... Margaret Mackay, Margaret 21 Jun 1805 West Moine Mission Baptisms. Sutherland: Durness - Parish Registers, 1764-1814 Margaret died about 1851/2. I have also wondered if she had been a widow and not born Mackay but that's just because of her age when she married Thomas. I hope you don't mind me asking if you've noticed that particular Margaret or if you've already linked her with someone, as if you have I'd need to look for someone else? Hope you can help
Kind Regards
Hazel
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Hi Michael. re John Paterson who Married Elizabeth Douglas...
John,b13Dec1800@Beanley Eglingham, Northumberland[Eng]married 9 nov 1827 to ElizabethDouglas ch21Jan1806at Thurso Caithness[second child of George Doughlas & Elizabeth McIntosh]They emigrated to NZon the Robert Henderson in1862..farmed at Otepopo-now Herbert. John d-23May1877; Eliz.d-31Aug 1884.
Family-1-Janet-b1828; 2-Isabella[Elizabeth]b1830.at Durness.d1902,NZ; 3-Jane ch1833Farr,Caithness..b7Spt '33@Achinah; 4-Anthony b28April'39,@Durness,d NZ; 5-JohnWilliam b-c1842,Durness, d-NZ; George -b1843,Durness ,dNZ; 7 Helen.
i'm,des.from George.
Johns father-- Anthony b22 March1775 atOxnam-Mains m Jane Grecian,[d of James Grecian & Eleanor Steel]on11May1796. He died 18Jan1856 at Kennachy. He wasa shepherd.JANE b-8 April1886at Glanton,Northumberland; d-5 Aug 1842 at Kennachy.ch--1-Jamesb-25Aug, 1796 Beanly[emigr. to Australia] 2- Andrew,b-30 June 1798 Beanly ;Northumberland,3-John b13 Dec Beanly[mEliz Douglas] 4- Eleanor b 19 Sept 1803 Shipley, 5-Michael b 18Dec 1805, Beanly; 6-Jane b 2Nov 1810 Beanly; 7-Thomas b c15Oct1815 at Farr; 8-Mary b 29April1809 Beanly.
Anthony's dad-James, b at Mosshouses, ch-23Oct 1746 at Melrose; m Ann Hall [d of Anthony Hall & Isobel Michelson ]
Ann ch - 10 May1747 st Scotland. Anthony d-Sept 1815 Sandiestanes buried Ancrum Roxborough.
children-1Thomas b11 June 1771; 2-Anthony-3-John b 19June1779 OxnamMains .
father of James was Thomas born Scotland m Janet Paterson 2 Nov 1745 at Melrose Caithness.children-1-Jamesb1746 ; 2-Janet ch2May1749;3-Thomas ch 21Aug 1751; 4-Margaret ch 8Dec 1755; 7-Agnes-ch7 Nov 1758.
Father of Thomas was James who married Margaret?? It is not known if there were chidren other than Thomas. Cheers!!
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Thank-you , Julina , for your reply ( to Michael ) , Friday 06 January , 2006.
I have been studying it with great interest...
Your reference ( about half-way down the page , to ' JANE b-8 April 1886 at Glanton, Northumberland ; d-Aug 1842 at Kennachy.'
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]has had me struggling somewhat. However I now realise that the year should read 1776 ?
Do you agree ?
Many Thanks [/color][/color]
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John Paterson & Elizabeth Douglas were my gt gt gt grand parents. buried in The Otepopo Cemetery ( Now Herbert ) New Zealand. If you would like to contact me . (*)
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Hi Julina - I believe you descend from George Paterson my gt gt grandfather was his brother Anthony thus making John & Elizabeth Paterson ( nee Douglas ) my gt gt gt grandparents. This site is hard because I don't know where you live or how much you know.AlsoI do not know where your info came from. I live in N. Z. and have a copy of the death entry for Elizabeth.This may be a red herring but it shows that she was born in Northumberland & married in Sutherlandshire.The informent was her son Anthony.I am also working in with a descendant of John William - Regards kiwi girl
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Hi Kiwi Girl,
You probably already know this but just in case you don't, the reason that so many families "emigrated" from the Scottish Borders and the County of Northumberland to the County of Sutherland was because the men were shepherds. They were in demand because of their experience with the "big" sheep, which were introduced as one of the Sutherlands' "improvements".
If you have access to the Transactions of the Gaelic Society of Inverness, there is an interesting paper published in volume LXI (1998 - 2000). I did not see the name Paterson mentioned but there are several references to Douglas, although not Elizabeth Douglas specifically.
Ian
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Thank you for your input Ian. I don't know about the Douglas side ,but I believe Elizabeth's husbands brother Thomas Paterson was involved in someway with the clearances. Regards Kiwi Girl
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My Gx5 Grandfather William Calder married Grissel Ross on 7 April 1786 in Durness Sutherland. He was stated to be a Charity Schoolmaster in Eribol. On his son Hugh's death certificate, his father William is stated to be a farmer. I am trying to obtain proof that he is the same William. Can anyone help please?
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Hi Heather,
Can you tell us Hugh's date and place of birth? Also, the same information for any siblings that you know of.
Where and when did Hugh die?
IanB
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John Paterson & Elizabeth Douglas were my gt gt gt grand parents. buried in The Otepopo Cemetery ( Now Herbert ) New Zealand. If you would like to contact me . (*)
Hello Kiwi Girl
I am interested to know more about your Isabella Paterson, as I have an Isabella Paterson in my family tree. She was born in 1830 in Farr, Sutherland. Married Donald Munro in 1855 in Durness, and went on to have 9 children. I do not have parents for Isabella, so am wondering if its the same one.
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Hi,
Isabella Paterson, married to Donald Munro was indeed the daughter of John & Elizabeth Paterson. They emigrated to New Zealand & farmed at Otepopo which is now called Herbert. This is in North Otago in the South Island of New Zealand. This is all I can remember with out looking anything up.I assume that they are probably both buried in the Herbert cemetery. I do know that they called their farm Strathmore after the Strathmore Valley they left behind.
Regards
Linda
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Hi Linda
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I will now be able to put parents in for Isabella. If you find out when she died, would like to know, also her husband Donald.
I am connected through their daughter Hughina's husband, William CAMPBELL. He was my 2nd cousin twice removed!!
Once again,
Thanks
Carol
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Dear Ian
Hugh was christened on 17.6.1791 married Elspet Ross 4.11.1815 Ross & Cromarty. He died 18.8.1877 In Dyke, Elgin. Elspet died 21.4.1878 age 81 at Dyke. Elspet's parents were John Ross (farmer) and Elspet. They had 7 siblings - Hugh 24.8.1820 Tain R&C. Ann 15.9.1822 R & C, Isobell 15.8.1824 R & C, John 8.10.1826 Moray Edinkille Barbara 21.5.1831 Moray James 12.4.1834 Moray and Elspet 3.2.1837 Moray. It seems Hugh moved from Durness to Ross & Cromarty when he married Elspet Ross.
Thank you very much for helping me.
Heather
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Hi Heather,
I have sent you a "Personal Message".
Ian
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Hi Julina,
I am chasing a Grecian family from Northumberland, and noticed your have one of my 'James Grecian b1743' in your family.
I am trying to ascertain if my James Grecian who married Eleanor Steele b1745 on 12DEC1765 at possibly Ingram in Northumberland, had an elder brother called Ralph Grecian b1723circa. James and Eleanor are the parents of Jane Grecian who married Anthony Paterson.
Ralph is a witness at James and Eleanor's wedding. He died 11/5/1803 as a shepherd, late of Fawdon, aged 80 years. Ralph Grecian, married Mary Aynsley on 23/5/1758 at Brandon. She died in 1765. He also had banns for a marriage to Eleanor Crisp on 25/5/1766. He was living in Reveley and she was living in Ilderton.
I hope you can assist.
Yours aye
Oberang
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Hello Andy,
We too have CAMPBELL'S in Durness, see attached family tree. We think our lot come in from Fort William way and don't stay too long. But if there's anything that rings a bell, it would be much appreciated.
Regards,
Phil
P.S. we're particularly interested in the middle name of Anderson. Wasn't there a notorious Anderson in the area?
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Hi Andy or Ian
My Great Great Grandfather Hugh Mackay lived in Latheron Caithness. In the 1841 Census his place of birth is captured as Reay. In the 1851 Census as Naver. In the 1861 Census as Durness. If Hugh was a Gaelic speaker and the census takers spoke only Scots English I'm wondering if Reay could be Reay Country (Not Reay, Caithness) and Naver to be Strathnaver as in the former county not the valley. By 1861 they may have got it right :-)
The census ages would have Hugh Mackay, born Durness @1809. What births if any can you find for Hugh there.
Hugh's twin sons and I think Hugh (and wife Janet Budge) all moved to Leith where James became a police officer. Interestingly there are Hugh, Donald and James Mackay members of the Edinburgh Sutherland Association @1879. Further marriages and births indicate a membership of the Free Church but I'm not sure if this would have been consistent or inconsistent with Freemasonry - which was a calling that the next generations of Mackays appeared to have taken
Grateful if you can trace Hugh's line in Durness
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Welcome to the County of Sutherland Board. (Are you Roy?)
The census extracts in my file, after 1841, have as the headings of the 3rd-last and 2nd-last columns "Parish" and "County". 1841 shows "Parish" only. What county is shown in 1851 and 1861?
There was only one baptism recorded in the register for Durness in 1809: Oct 18 ; father Richard MacKay, weaver in Durin (i.e. now the village of Durness) mother Catharine MacPherson.
There was one other in the West Moine Mission on Jan 30th: father John Mackay, alias MacHeorish (i.e. son of george), Hunleam, and Barbara MacKay, Braeskill, not born in lawful wedlock.
There was a Hugh baptised 11 Mar 1808; father Hugh Mackay Shepherd in Borly; mother Christian macKay, both from Strathy
There were no Hugh MacKays baptized in 1810.
Odly, all of theIGI entries for Janet Budge were submitted by LDS members (no extracted entries) Her marriage to hugh in 1833 and the birth of her children (John 1834; Hugh 1835; Donald & James 1838; and Janet 1840. There were 3 members submitting. Perhaps you could try contacting them?
Of the Durness Hughs, the West Moine entry seems slightly more promising because it is located closer to Latheron and because the father's name was John, the name Hugh gave to his first son.
Good luck,
Ian
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One other thought; the Free Church was established in 1843, i.e. after the entries mentioned above. I don't think there was any connection between the Free Church and the Freemasons, but I don't know much about the latter.
Ian
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Ian - thanks very much for your prompt response. My name is Gordon Ferguson Mackay. My dad Hugh had a first son Hugh, I was his second son born out of his second marriage. Unlike previous generations I was not named after a previous Mackay. I was named after a footballer Gordon Smith of Hibs. Ferguson was my grandad Hugh Mackay's wife Jane Ferguson's maiden name.
My father Hugh had an older brother James named after their father Hugh's father James. My dad was born in Edinburgh in 1909. My grandad Hugh was born in Leith in 1875. His dad James was one of the twins born to Hugh and Janet. James married his wife Barbara Macleod in Edinburgh, James the son of Hugh listed as farm grieve and Barbara's father Alexander Macleod listed as Farmer/Crofter. Barbara's mother was Henrietta Mackay whose predecessors I've not yet traced. More Mackay's, More farmers/crofters, More Barbara's - my father and I both have a sister Barbara.
Census Results - I need to check my extracts - they are on another computer.
Agree about John and Barbara - there are no Richard's or Catherine's in my lineage, My father's brother was George
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Hi, I have an ancestor recorded in the Durness parish register; Barbara Mackay mother of Ann Mackay 12th March 1771.
It reads: "Barbara Mackay alias Nin Dholicorishskerray, Widow of John Mackay in Sartigrim had Ann baptised 12th March".
What I am trying to find out is just what "Nin Dholicorishskerray" translates as in English. Obviously it connects Barbara with the village of Skerray but does it say anything about her father.
I have read conflicting accounts: One person says that is says "daughter of James Mackay of Skerray" another person says that it means "daughter of George, son of Donald". But non of the gaelic versions of those male names appear in "Nin Dholicorishskerray".
So if anyone could tell me what "Nin Dholicorishskerray" means I would be most grateful.
Thanks
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Hi,
In the Durness area, " nin" was apparently used as a contraction of nighean, daughter, rather than the usual "nic". So, "Dhol" is a phoenetic rendering of the Gaelic for Donald; "ic" is a contraction of "mhic", the genetive case for mac, meaning "son of" ; and 'orish" appears to be a phoenetic rendering of the Gaelic for George. The "skerray" at the end probably indicates he was a member of the Mackays of Skerray, an offshoot of the Mackays of Strathy.
So, Barbara's patronymic appears to be " daughter of Donald, son of George of Skerray". I took a quick look at the "Book of Mackay" and noticed a George listed as one of the sons o fHector Mackay of Skerray but no details are given.
Ian
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Ian,
Thank you so very much for clarryfying that for me! I have been swings and roundabouts with this one.
I have the Book of Mackay and know the George of Skerray you are referring to on page 315.
To cut a long story short, Barbara Mackay (daughter of Donald, son of George) was wife of John Mackay in Sartigrim, parish of Durness.
They had at least 3 daughters:
1. Janet Mackay born 1766,
2. Barbara Mackay born 1768
3. Ann Mackay born 1771.
The elder Barbara who was the mother of the three daughters is only actually mentioned on the parish birth record for the youngest daughter, Ann Mackay, born 1771. But all 3 of their parish birth records mention the father as John Mackay of Sartigrim. (Sartigrim is a very small settlement now known as Sarsgrum) So it is assumed that the elder Barbara was mother of all three, and it seems that the younger Barbara born 1768 was named after the mother.
The Barbara Mackay born 1768 was my 4th great grandmother, wife of Alexander Munro. They moved to Armadale, parish of Farr, Sutherland and had a large family but that is another story....
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"Nin Dholicorishskerray"
there may well be an element of truth in that this means daughter of George son of Donald , however i would say that its meaning goes a little further than this in that George was that of the McDonald or MacDonald family ( son of Donald ) and as George being in a patriarchal /patriarchal position he was the father figure (so to speak) and as you already know Skerray know also as Sgeirea is the beautiful place in Sutherland
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I already know that the Barbara in question was a Mackay (daughter of Donald , son of George of Skerray). There was also an important Mackay family in Skerray.
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The "Skerray" Mackays were descended from John Mackay of Strathy, second son of Uisdean Dubh of Farr, chief of Clan Mackay.
Ian
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Ok a new question regarding two citations from the Durness parish register:
There is a John Morison who married a Barbara Mackay in 1785 in the parish of Durness. His location is given as "in Ceanlochbhirobie". (There is no record of any children for them).
Later there is another John Morison recorded by the alias "Macmhorachie" who was married to Katharine Mackenzie.
Is there any connection between the place name "Ceanlochbhirobie" for the first John Morison and the alias "Macmhorachie" for the second John Morsion.
I ask because there is no record for children born to the first John Morison and his wife Barbara Mackay. The "hirobie" part of Ceanlochbhirobie seems similar to the "horachie" part of Macmhorachie.
If anyone knows where the place is and what the alias means then that may help.
Thanks.
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I think the minister (or the transcriber, Hew Morison) may have mispelt the name and it should be "Ceanlochbirobhie' whose modern-day spelling is Kinlochbervie, on Loch Inchard. "Ceanloch" means head of Loch "x", e.g. KinlochLeven, Kinlochrannoch.
The second John Morison's alias is a patronymic, i.e. son of Morachie - a name I don't recognise.
Please tell me the date of the entry for the second John Morison and I will see whether my transcript has any additional information.
Ian
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Hi Ian, the second John Morrison who has the alias married Katharine Mackenzie on 27th January 1797. Its quite some time after the first John Morison who married in 1785 but you know what men were like in those days, marrying at an advanced age....However judging by the info you have just given me the two John Morisons are probably not the same person.
However, (I don't mean to complicate things). There is a third John Morison who married Christian Calder in 1792 in the parish of Durness. The citation for this John Morison is given as "John Morison, alias macuilammachustianicachinroy, tenent in Achins of Cnocbreac" Which is probably also a different person.
Thanks.
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Hi,
I have a photocopy of Hew Morrison's transcription and unfortunately the 1797 entry has been cut off in the copying process.
However, I can tell you about John macuilliammachustianicachinroy (son of William, son of Hugh, son of Red Hector) He was my 5xg.grandfather, and Christian Calder or Donn (Down) was a daughter of Rob Donn, the Gaelic poet.
There was yet another John Morrison hanging around at that time and he is usually described as being from Lewis and had a nick name of "Smerican" As far as I know these four John Morrisons were different people, and not related to each other.
Ian
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Ok thanks Ian.
My ancestors in Durness are only found on record there in one instance. In 1791 my great-great-great-great grandparents Alexander Munro (a carpenter) and Barbara Mackay are found in Cenabeinne at the birth of their son James Munro in 1791.
However after that they are found again in the parish of Farr in 1796 where they had yet another son called James, so presumably the first James who was born in 1791 in Durness died young. They had a total of 6 sons and one daughter in the parish of Farr between 1796 and 1812. On these records he is recorded by the spelling of "Alexr Munro". I am descended from their youngest son Mackay Munro born in 1812 (He went by the name of Mackay John Munro). They owned an Inn in the village of Armadale , parish of Farr which Barbara Mackay ran. I also have records that say Alex Munro was a master carpenter, house carpenter and boat builder.
Now going back to Durness where they were in 1791, there are several other genealogists who have matched Barbara Mackay (the mother in 1791) to the parish birth record of the 15th November 1768, daughter of John Mackay of Sartigrim. What their reasoning is for this I am not sure. However I have managed to match almost all the Barbara Mackays born in the parish of Durness between 1764 and 1770 to marriage records in the same parish. The only one I am left with is the Barbara Mackay born on the 15th Novemebr 1768 in Sartigrim, daughter of John Mackay.
To take things further the Barbara Mackay born on 15th November 1768 in Sartigrim had two sisters: Janet born 1766 and Ann born 1771, both daughters of John Mackay of Sartigrim. On the 1771 record for Ann's birth the mother is also named as Barbara Mackay, so it seems more than likely that the Barbara Mackay born in 1768 was named after her own mother.
So the elder Barbara Mackay is recorded in 1771 by the Gaelic alias of "daughter of Donald, son of George of Skerray". Which some people have linked to George Mackay of Skerray who is listed on page 315 of the Book of Mackay and was living at just the right time.
My only real problem is confirming that my Barbara Mackay who was mother in the parish of Durness in 1791 is in fact the same Barbara Mackay born 15th Nov 1768, Sartigrim , parish of Durness. My Barbara Mackay is actually found on the parish of Farr 1841 census aged 75 - but all of the ages for adults on that census have been rounded to a multiple of 5. Some rounded up, some rounded down. If she is the one born in 1768 then she would have been about 73 in 1841 which could have been rounded to 75. Also her youngest son, Mackay Munro who I am descended from often went by the name of John Munro or Mackay John Munro - and was therefore possibly named after her father John Mackay of Sartigrim.
Interestingly there is no marriage record for Alexander Munro and Barbara Mackay.
Hope you find this interesting.
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I believe that the ages of adults in the 1841 census were rounded down, i.e. someone shown as 70 could have been anything from 70 to 74. If she was born in 1768, she would have been shown as 70.
Conversely, somone shown as 75 would have been born between 1762 and 1766, I think. As you know, the Parish Register of Durness did not commence until 1764
Did you read the recent thread "John Mackay of Auchanlochy" ? It contains reference to Barbara Mackays.
Keep at it!
Ian
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Yes rounding down was the usual procedure but in some cases the ages were rounded up.
I looked at the John Mackay of Auchinlochy thread. The name Barbara is an extremely popular one amongst Mackays.
I'll spare you the details of Alex Munro's ancestry. I have information that says he came from the county of Ross-shire having moved to Sutherland in 1784.
Cheers.
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Hi Ian
My husband's ancestor Mary Mackay has an alias (patronymic?) on the record of her marriage to Donald Ross at Durness.
It reads: '...Mary Mackay alias nin Uilliam Macnish at Clashneash, 3 July 1778'
I believe the 'nin Uilliam' means daughter of William but could you confirm that? Also I am not sure about the meaning of Macnish. Is it a surname or is it 'son of...'?
Hoping someone could explain this for me so I can record it clearly for the future.
Many thanks
Kate.
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Hi Kate,
Yes; the alias is a patronymic meaning daughter of William (who was) son of Angus.
Ian
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So in this case is Mac 'son of' and 'Nish' a version of Angus, rather than Macnish being one surname? It is quite difficult to read some of the Gaelic names in the parish records. (I had wondered if she was daughter of William Macnish, which really confused me!)
Thanks for your help.
Kate
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In Gaelic the spelling of nouns (including names) can change in response to their grammatical case. The "starting point" is the nominative case but in the genitive/possessive case the noun is aspirated/lenited (indicated by inserting an H and after the first consonant and inserting an I after the last vowel). So, "mac" (son of) in the genitive case becomes "mhic", pronounced VIC and often shortened to 'ic. Of course, there is no letter H in the Gaelic alphabet and its use in printing takes the place of the aspiration (exhaling) mark. This is a subject in itsself, and one in which i am far from expert. MacNish could be a surname for some people. They do not appear to have used surnames except in formal/legal contexts and most people were identified/referred to in conversation by an eke name, the most common of which was a patronymic. If you send me your email by PM, I will try to find a paper I wrote on this topic some years ago and forward it to you.
Ian
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I can see that I have asked a complicated question and that this is a whole new topic! I will send my email by PM and would be interested to read what you send.
Thanks very much
Kate
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Thanks, Ian for all your help.
Kate.
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You are welcome, Kate. BTW, I remember an enquiry a year or so ago about Whytes/Whites of Durness. If it wasn't you, and if you are interested, I will take a look.
Ian
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I can't find the enquiry you refer to but I have asked for help with details about Whytes in Durness. It is a little while since I looked at my Durness Whyte records. If you can see the question I asked, then yes please, any help welcome.
Kate
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Any one got any insight in to the "hustian" that appears a view times on these records. I'm desended from Jean Morrison for Donn, born around 1790, and who Married Angus Mackay alias Mackenzie.
Now Jean is described at her marriage as "alias nin hustian duin in Cnockbreac" - alais daughter hustian donn in Cnockbreac.
Any thoughts?
Tearlach
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"Hustian" is the Reverend Thomson's phonetic rendition of Uísdean, the Gaelic name equivalent to the English "Hugh"
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Hi Tearlach,
You say that you are descended from " Jean Morrison for Donn" (born around 1790). That seems a rather different combination of names. What is its source? Dis you find the actual registration of her birth/baptism? In which parish?
There were many, many Hustians/Uisdeans/Hughs in the parish. What was the date of Jean's marriage? I could look it up in my copy of the parish register, assuming it was Durness.
IanB
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Teárlach:
Records show that Angus Mackay Mackenzie, farm servant, Knockbreack, married Effy Macpherson of Durin on 24th December 1812, so the marriage you refer to must presumably have been some time after Effy's death.
There's reference to a Jean Done (sic), wife of George Mackay rather Mackenzie, tenant in Croispol, having a son Angus on 26th October 1790 but that doesn't seem to be the same branch of the family
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I notice a 19 Jan, 1790 marriage entry in the Durness Parish Register between George Mackay Mackenzie, Crosple, ---and-- Jean Morison, alias nin Hustian Duin, in Cnocbreac. This appears to be the couple who baptized their son, Angus, on Oct 28, 1790.
I looked for the baptism by a Hugh Morison or Done/Duin/Down/Donn of a daughter Jean, as far back as the start of the Register (1764) but couldn't find one.
Hugh was a common given name for Morisons from Cnocbreac but I have not noticed an "eke" name of Done/Duin/Don (meaning Brown) before.
IanB
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Ah "Hustian" is Uísdean, I missed that one. I wondered if it was "Uilliam" - William.
So Jean was the son of Hugh, aka "Shuggie"....
Thanks for that. IainB - Thanks for looking for a birth date for Jean , but I've been through the Register with a fine tooth comb, and found nothing.
And a typo in my previous e-mail - Jean Donn or Morrison, rather than Jean Morrison for Donn.
I'm descended through George and Jean, through their son Angus, his son Donald, and his youngest daughter Margaret - b 1855, who disappeared of to Caithness for a year or so in 1871, had my GG Grandmother, out of wedlock, left the bairn Dolina with a step Granny (after taking the father to court to prove paternity) and then came back to Durness to live with her extended family and at least one other child.
I have seen other references to that Margaret Mackay on this board, but no-one seems to have noted that she lived in Thurso and had one daughter there before coming back to Durness.
I have spent quite a few years now getting to the bottom of Margaret's movements, and in doing so have managed to solve one family mystery. When I was a wee boy in Thurso there was always a family story that we had connections to Eilean nan Ròn in the Kyle of Tongue. In fact I was taken there as a baby in the early 60's in my Grandfather Mackays fishing boat, and was the first baby back there since the evacuation in the 30's. We still live on the North Coast, so as an Adult I started to see which bit of the family came from Eilean nan Ròn, or Eilean Roan. No luck, one branch of the Mackays were Strathnaver, another Kildonan, another Reay (Aberach's).
Margaret seemed the only other choice, but was a dead end in Thurso, as she vanished in 1871, right after the birth of her Daughter, my GG Grandmother. The Court case gave me the clue - she was living with two Mackay brothers, and a Morrison Aunt and Uncle in Thurso - all from Durness, all recorded in the 1871 census, so that allowed me to move on, and discover that her Mothers family were Morrisons from Eilean Hoan off Smoo, not Roan.
Mystery solved, I'd like to think. Just shows how a little luck with timing in records (my GG Grandmother birth in 1871 was a few days before the census, and the Paternity Court case was in the October of 1871) allowed me to get to the bottom of it all.
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Hi, can anyone translate the following gaelic aliases for Elisabeth Mackay as found in the Durness parish register in 1791 and 1794:
1791:
38. William Morison, tenent and boatman in Ceannabin, and . . . Elisabeth Mackay, alias nin Eachinmacdholi-cachin, Barbara 9 Nov.
1794:
20. William Morison, alias macuilammachustian, tenent and boatman in Ceannabin, and . . . Elisabeth (alias Betty) Mackay, alias nin Achinmacdholicachinskerray, Mary-anne 29 May.
Any help really appreciated.
Thanks.
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1791/38: daughter of Hector; son of Donald; son of Hector
1794/20: daughter of Hector; son of Donald; daughter of Hector of Skerray
Elizabeth was from the Skerray branch of Mackays, descended from the chiefly line.
Donald appears in the Book of Mackay; son of Hector who was the son of John of Skerray, who was the second son of John of Strathy, who was the second son of Hustian Du , Chief of Mackay.
BTW, William's patronymic is son of William, son of Hugh.
IanB
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1791/38: daughter of Hector; son of Donald; son of Hector
1794/20: daughter of Hector; son of Donald; daughter of Hector of Skerray
Elizabeth was from the Skerray branch of Mackays, descended from the chiefly line.
Donald appears in the Book of Mackay; son of Hector who was the son of John of Skerray, who was the second son of John of Strathy, who was the second son of Hustian Du , Chief of Mackay.
BTW, William's patronymic is son of William, son of Hugh.
IanB
Thanks for that Ian B. I am working on a theory that my ancestor Barbara Mackay who is also found in the hamlet of Ceannabin in 1791, as a mother of James Munro on the parish registers, is possibly the sister of Elizabeth. One of Barbara's sons had a 4th daughter named Elizabeth, who he could possibly have named after his auntie. Also Barbara's husband, Alexander Munro was a boat builder and carpenter which matches the trades of two William Morrisons who were in Ceannabin at the same time, one of which was husband of Elizabeth Mackay. These are the entries I am referring to:
1791:
30. Alexander Munro, carpenter in Ceannabin, and . . . Barbara Mackay, James 30 Sept.
38. William Morison, tenent and boatman in Ceannabin, and . . . Elisabeth Mackay, alias nin Eachinmacdholi-cachin, Barbara 9 Nov.
1794:
5. William Morison, alias maceanmacuilammachustian, carpenter in Ceannabin, and . . . Ann Mackay, Barbara 4 Feb.
20. William Morison, alias macuilammachustian, tenent and boatman in Ceannabin, and . . . Elisabeth (alias Betty) Mackay, alias nin Achinmacdholicachinskerray, Mary-anne 29 May.
1795:
14. William Morison, junr., alias macenmacuilammachustian, carpenter in
Ceannabin, and . . . Ann Mackay, Katharine 10 Sept.
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Hi IanB can I ask for your services again and translate the below Gaelic alias given in the Durness parish register in 1793 for Ann Mackay:
William Morison, alias Maceanmacuilammachustian, carpenter in Ceannabin . . . Ann Mackay, alias nin Hustianmacuilam, servant in Erriboll 2 May.
(Am I right in thinking that its "daughter of Hugh, son of William" ?)
many thanks for any advice!
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Yes; you are correct. Her husband, William Morrison's patronymic is interesting, too, being so similar to that of Betty Mackay's husband, but apparently being a generation apart. (Macean being son of John, of course.) This is not so unusual for families in those times, and even later; my grandfather, for example was older than two of his uncles.
Without a patronymic for your Barbara, it's going to be difficult to determine any relationship between her and Betty or Ann. I have been searching through this parish register for years and have been puzzled by the times that the minister did not record one. Obviously, everyone had one, and there were many, many Barbara Mackays, so why not record hers - not just once but several times?
My "oldest" patronymic is for a John Morrison who married Christian Calder (daughter of Rob Donn) and it is : mac Uilliam 'ic Uisdean 'ic Eachain ruaidh, which suggests that he may have been related to the Ceannabeine Morrisons - he, also, was a ship's carpenter or joiner.
Good luck!
IanB
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Thanks IanB. Ceanabeinne certainly seems to be where there were a lot carpenters/boat carpenters/boatman. I have actually found quite a few references to men of these trades at Ceanabeinne. Any ideas why this was ? I know it was part of the Rispond estate. Rispond being a few miles down the road, and which had a pier which boats would have used of course.
Ian I don't mean to be a pain but would you be able to give me the translations for the following aliases from the Durness parish register:
1764:
13. Angus Munro Macdhonilicorachy in Eribol, Marion 14 July.
1766:
5. Murdoch Munro, alias Macdholvicorachy, in Eribol, James 19 Mar.
1768:
30. John Munro, alias Macnish vicdholicorachie, in Freasgil, Catharine 30 Oct.
1770:
16. Wm. Munro, alias MacRobmacDholicorachy, in Balam-hulich, Janet 14 May
1774:
3. John Munro, alias Macnish macdholicorachy, in Inverhope, James 29 Jan.
1778:
9. John Munro, alias Macangus macDholicorachy, tenent in Freasgil, Angus 5 April.
1778:
18. Angus Munro, alias Macalister macDholicachin, tenent in Hope, Katharine
1785:
13. Donald Munro, alias macmhorachie, tenent in Eribol, and . . . Christian Mackintosh, Mary
1791:
35. Donald Munro, alias macnishicolicorachy, tenent in Freisgil, and . . . Christian Campbell, Janet 30 Oct.
1792:
29. James Munro, alias macmhorachieicdholicorachy, weaver in Eribol, and . . . Janet Mackay, alias Nahustian,
Marion 25 Aug.
Again really appreciate it. There won't be anymore. Thanks.
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Ceannabeine is next to the beach at Sangobeg, next to the then inhabited island of Eilean Hoan, often referred to as "Islandhall", and Rispond is indeed within walking distance.
Morachy is, as far as I know, a local variant of "Murdoch", as in the notorious villain buried in the wall of Balnakiel Church Donald Mac Murcho or Mac Morachie.
Thus Angus (1764) and Donald (1766) are the sons of Donald the son of Murdoch
John Munro is the son of Angus the son of Donald the son of Murdoch, etc
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Ok,
how about these two ?
James Munro, alias macmhorachieicdholicorachy
Donald Munro, alias macnishicolicorachy
?
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I replied, giving you all of my interpretations, but the sytem gave me a warning about postings made while I was writing, and then swallowed up my post.
I don't think there is much doubt that "Morachie" (minister has omitted the first M") is Murdo/Murdoch for Murchad/Moorochugh
James Munro: son of Murdoch; son of Donald; son of Murdoch
Donald Munro: son of Angus; son of Donald; son of Murdoch
IanB
PS if you PM your email address, I will forward to you a short paper I wrote many years ago regarding the patronymics in the Durness Parish Register.
IM
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Janet MacKay was nin Uisdeán, or daughter of Hugh, by the way
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So am I right in thinking that;
1770: 16. Wm. Munro, alias MacRobmacDholicorachy means William Munro, son of Robert, son of Donald, son of Murdoch ?
and that:
1778: 18. Angus Munro, alias Macalister macDholicachinn means Angus Munro son of Alexander/Alistair, son of Donald, son of Hector ?
Thanks, Mike.
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1770/16 Wm. Munro: Almost - you omitted the Donald, i.e son of Robert; son of Donald; son of Murdoch
1778/18; Correct
BTW, from the 1770 entry, "Balamhulich" is now part of Durness village and is recorded on maps as "Balvolich"
IanB
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The boundary between Balvulich and Durine has never been well defined, to the extent that when my grandfather moved his house from the foot of the croft land to the top of the hill, some records have it as moving from Durine to Balvulich. There is a defined wall that separates Balvulich from Balnakiel, but even a top quality OS map cannot define where one starts and the other ends.
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Hello everyone :) This post has been running for some time and has now many pages and people taking part over the years. We normally stop and create new threads for popular and long running threads, usually when they get to around 20 pages. We are some way beyond that now. I am going to start a new post for this thread: Durness Parish Register - Part 2. New link here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,641690.0.html Please post any new request or continuing posts to that new thread. This post is now locked for new responses. Thank you :)
Monica
Topic locked