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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: Sloe Gin on Sunday 02 May 10 15:11 BST (UK)

Title: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Sunday 02 May 10 15:11 BST (UK)
I'd be grateful if someone could check for the burial of a John POTTINGER, probably born 1758 in East Ilsley.

He married Mary COAKES in East Ilsley in 1792.
John & Mary had two children baptised there in 1793 (Elizabeth) and 1797 (Ann)
Mary POTTINGER (widow) married William BROWN in 1805.

Can't find a burial for John, although there is one in Compton in 1803 for "Mr John Pottinger the Impropriator".  Not entirely convinced it's him, though.  Can anyone spot any other likely candidates?

He may be the same John Pottinger who married Hannah ADNAMS in 1782 in Chieveley, as there are children baptised in East Ilsley to John and Hannah from 1783 to 1789.  So a burial for Hannah Pottinger 1789-92, possibly in Chieveley, would help confirm this.

(I should say they are not my family, this is related to something else I'm working on.)
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: jillruss on Sunday 02 May 10 16:47 BST (UK)
As you've probably discovered, there are LOTS of Pottingers in this area. I have them in my tree and it's a bit of a minefield!

The Berkshire Burial Index has a burial for a Hannah Pottinger in Chieveley 28.7.1791. Helpfully  ::) it describes her as the wife of [blank] but at least you know she was somebody's wife! (not an infant). So, possibly 'your' Hannah.

As well as the one you've already got in Compton, there are these burials around the right time (1796-1805) for a John Pottinger:

22 Aug 1796 Blewbury  John Pottinger of Upton
29 Sep 1799 Bradfield  John Pottinger (no additional information)

Bradfield is less than 10 miles from Chieveley, and East Ilsley is on the third point of a 10 mile triangle with the other two.

I don't know how much you know about these Pottingers, but, in my experience, the Compton Pottingers tend to have been very well to do.

Jill
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Sunday 02 May 10 17:20 BST (UK)
Hello Jill, thanks for this. 

Does look like it's the same John then: he and Hannah had four children in Ilsley, Hannah died and was buried back where she came from and John married again quickly, as people did then.  It does make sense of something that I've been trying to fathom out - too complicated to go into here  :-X

You're right about the Compton Pottingers, I don't feel he's one of them although the 1803 burial fits timewise.  He could be one of the others you've found - if they moved away and Mary returned to Ilsley after his death (Upton's only a couple of miles walk away across the Downs) but then he may still have been buried in E Ilsley and the burial entry omitted or lost, it wouldn't be the only case of that.

The only other anomaly is that JP would have had two daughters called Elizabeth!  But that's not impossible.

Anyway, that's been a big help, thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: ribbo39 on Monday 03 May 10 00:19 BST (UK)
Hi Sloe Gin,

From the East Ilsley PRs (ex BFHS) is this burial;
13-6-1786 John Pottinger.

From the same parish is this baptism;
11-4-1758 John s/o John & Eliza: Pottinger

Hope these help. I can look up more in East Ilsley if you would like me to.

Alan
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Monday 03 May 10 01:32 BST (UK)
Thanks Alan, but I have all the EI stuff.  I think that baptism is the chap we're after, and the burial is his Dad. 

One of John & Hannah's daughters had an illegitimate daughter (Melytia aka Letitia), and I now think she was probably brought up by John's second wife Mary.  This explains a reference to Melytia's husband as being Mary's son-in-law: the writer* probably thought Melytia was Mary's daughter.  There, I said it was complicated!

*the writer being the outgoing curate who conscientiously prepared a list of his parishioners for the new Rector.  With comments, often disparaging!  It should be of great interest to anyone with East Ilsley people in their tree, as it amounts to a census - in 1831.  I'll let you all know when it's available.
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: matgeorges on Monday 27 September 10 14:14 BST (UK)
I have the Pottinger's of Compton and they are seperate from the East Isley ones. John Pottinger of Compton, Inn proprieter, married Elizabeth Head in 1759.
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Monday 27 September 10 14:41 BST (UK)
I never did get the East Ilsley JP buried  :-\  I think it's most likely that he was buried in Ilsley, but it was not entered into the parish register for some reason.

The transcribed annotated 1831 "census" mentioned above is now available, see

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,459879.0.html

Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: ribbo39 on Monday 27 September 10 15:09 BST (UK)
Hi Sloe Gin,

"So a burial for Hannah Pottinger 1789-92, possibly in Chieveley, would help confirm this."

Going back to your original post as  above;. there is this burial in Chieveley St.Mary the Virgin. - 28-7-1791 Hannah Pottinger

Alan
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Monday 27 September 10 16:10 BST (UK)
Yes thanks, Alan.   It was the reference to Melytia's husband as being Mary Brown's son-in-law that I was trying to solve at the time, but I think we unravelled it successfully in the end.

Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: wickfield on Thursday 28 October 10 20:08 BST (UK)
Hi Sloe Gin,

I don't have a burial date for John Pottinger (c. 1758, East Ilsley), but I do know that John Pottinger's ancestors are indeed from Compton.  Also, the Elizabeth Pottinger (c. 25 Mar 1783, East Ilsley) born to John and Hannah (Adnams) Pottinger is not the mother of Melytia aka Letitia (the illegitimate daughter born to an Elizabeth Pottinger in 1801), as Elizabeth Pottinger (c. 1783) died in October 1792 in East Ilsley (Berkshire death record says Elizabeth Pottinger d/o John and Hannah). 

After Hannah (Adnams) Pottinger died at a young age leaving John with the small children, he married Mary Coates (Mary Cokes c. 11 Nov 1759 in Buckleberry) in 17 Oct 1792 and they named their first daughter born in 17 Nov 1793 in East Ilsley, Elizabeth Pottinger (that explains the two Elizabeths).

John and Hannah (Adnams) Pottinger had the following children:

Elizabeth (c. 25 Mar 1783, East Ilsley)
William (c. 29 Oct 1784, East Ilsley) -- My GGGGrandfather
Mary (c. 6 Oct 1786, East Ilsley)
Sarah (c. 31 Jul 1789. East Ilsley)

And John Pottinger's (c. 1758) parents were John Pottinger (1720-1786, East Ilsley) and Elizabeth Church (1721-1800) and they married 5 Feb 1755 in East Ilsley and had the following children:

John (1758-)
William (1761-1764)


Furthermore, the 1720-1786 John Pottinger's parents were John Pottinger (b. 1687 Compton - d. Oct 1748 East Ilsley) and Ann Lever (b. 1683 North Moreton - d. 1754 East Ilsley), and they married 03 Aug 1712 in Basildon, Berkshire, and had the following children:

Mary (b. 1713 Compton)
Anne (b. 1714 Compton
Elizabeth (b. 1716 Compton)
Martha (1718 East Ilsley)
John (1720 East Ilsley)
Thomas (1722 East Ilsley)
Joanna (1728 East Ilsley).

So the Compton to East Ilsley linkage is as follows:

Thomas Pottinger,
of Compton
1651-1713
m. Elizabeth
|
|
|
John Pottinger,
of Compton
1687-1748
m. Ann Lever
|
|
John Pottinger,
of East Ilsley
1720-1786
m. Elizabeth (Eliza) Church
|
|
John Pottinger,
of East Ilsley
1758-
m. Hannah Adnams
m. Mary Coates

If you would like to share more information please let me know.

Thanks,

Diane

Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Thursday 28 October 10 21:48 BST (UK)
Well, that's interesting, thanks.

There's no burial for Elizabeth Pottinger d/o John & Hannah in East Ilsley 1792 (mind you I only have the transcript to hand), but BBI shows a burial in Chieveley 21 Oct 1792 of Elizabeth Pottinger d/o John, could be she was buried with her mother then.

I don't have any family connection with the Pottingers myself, as I said, it was just a puzzle why the curate thought Melytia was Mary's daughter, but as they were living in the same house it was probably a natural assumption anyway.  So who was the Elizabeth Pottinger who was the mother of Melytia  ???  there is certainly some connection.  Can't be the daughter of John & Mary, obviously, she's way too young.  Do you have any other candidates?  I know Captain2 will be interested! - see

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,419951.0.html

Quote
the 1720-1786 John Pottinger's parents were John Pottinger (b. 1687 Compton - d. Oct 1748 East Ilsley) and Ann Lever (b. 1683 North Moreton - d. 1754 East Ilsley), and they married 03 Aug 1712 in Basildon, Berkshire, and had the following children:

Mary (b. 1713 Compton)
Anne (b. 1714 Compton
Elizabeth (b. 1716 Compton)
Martha (1718 East Ilsley)
John (1720 East Ilsley)
Thomas (1722 East Ilsley)
Joanna (1728 East Ilsley).

Do you have Ann's will, it mentions another daughter, Sarah who was the twin (presumably) of Rosanna, bap 1725.  Rosanna predeceased her parents and there is an MI for the three of them.  Let me know if you don't have these.
 


Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: wickfield on Friday 29 October 10 16:14 BST (UK)
Hi Sloe Gin,

Thank you for your reply.  No, I don't have a copy of Ann (Lever) Pottinger's will that mentions the daughter Sarah.  I knew about the twins Sarah and Rosanna born in 1725 in East Ilsley, but the christening listed the mother as "Martha" Pottinger and I didn't know if there was a connection.  Can you send me a copy of Ann's will or at least tell me where I can get a copy?  What is an MI?

A distant cousin of mine went to the Record Office in Berkshire and that's where she found the burial for Elizabeth Pottinger d/o John & Hannah in Oct 1792 (she never really said it was East Ilsley, I just assumed that, so you're right about that).  Although, my cousin did specifically find that Hannah (Adnams) Pottinger was buried in Chieveley in 1792.  So you're probably right that Elizabeth Pottinger d/o John, could have been buried with her mother in Chieveley.

Speaking of Chieveley, John Pottinger's (c. 1758) mother, Elizabeth Church, was from Chieveley and was related to Hannah Adnams her son's first wife -- so there is an East Ilsley and Chieveley connection.

On another note, perhaps the mother, Elizabeth Pottinger, was from a nearby location (West Compton or elsewhere) but just had the baby Melytia christened in East Ilsley.  I have found in my research on this Pottinger family, who all seem to originate from Compton, that many of the Compton Pottingers especially from "West" Compton often married (had Banns read) and had children christened in East Ilsley for whatever reason.  My cousin went to the church in Compton recently and someone there told her that there was actually an area called West Compton.

Btw, who is the "Mary" who you are connecting to Melytia?  Could Elizabeth Pottinger have been a Mary or perhaps called herself Mary from a middle name as her daughter Melytia changed from Letitia?  Did you ever find a death record for Elizabeth Pottinger sometime after 1801?

Thanks again for the information.

Diane   
 
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Friday 29 October 10 16:38 BST (UK)
Captain2 (Angie) Hi  :) Sorry I haven't read all the post yet only that Elizabeth Pottinger is not Melytita's mother ( oh heck)  and that immediatey caught my eye! Iwill read through the post now.

Angie
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Friday 29 October 10 17:39 BST (UK)
Well what a mystery.. Melytia Pottinger was bought up as the 'daughter' of Mary Brown ( widow of John Pottinger).  If Elizabeth (daughter of John & Hannah) has died in 1792  then who is Elizabeth Pottinger ? mother of Melytia  and why is John's widow Mary bringing her up as her own daughter? 


Nothing like a good mystery - eh !

There has to be  family connection somewhere.

Angie
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Friday 29 October 10 18:12 BST (UK)
No, I don't have a copy of Ann (Lever) Pottinger's will that mentions the daughter Sarah.  I knew about the twins Sarah and Rosanna born in 1725 in East Ilsley, but the christening listed the mother as "Martha" Pottinger and I didn't know if there was a connection.  Can you send me a copy of Ann's will or at least tell me where I can get a copy?  What is an MI?

East Ilsley Wills and East Ilsley Monumental Inscriptions (MI) are both available on CDs from East Ilsley Local History Society through http://www.sigmabooks.co.uk  (the second Wills CD is more complete)

Yes, the mother of Sarah & Rosanna is given as Martha in the PR, but the MI clears this up.  I expect the clerk made a mistake and wrote down what he saw rather than what he heard/knew, as the mother in the previous baptism is a Martha.  That's often how these things happen.

The MI:  "In memory of JOHN POTTINGER who died (--) Oct 17(4)8 aged 6(1) years Also of ROSIN(A) daughter of JOHN and ANN POTTINGER who died (20) Ma(r) 17(--) aged 18 years"

My cousin went to the church in Compton recently and someone there told her that there was actually an area called West Compton.

The oldest part of Compton, where the church is, is sometimes referred to as Compton Parva.  There are relatively few houses up there nowadays, but back in the day it would have been the main part of the village.  These days the village has spread out further to the west, but there are some older cottages in this part too.

Btw, who is the "Mary" who you are connecting to Melytia?  Could Elizabeth Pottinger have been a Mary or perhaps called herself Mary from a middle name as her daughter Melytia changed from Letitia?  Did you ever find a death record for Elizabeth Pottinger sometime after 1801?

As Angie says, Mary is John Pottinger's widow Mary nee Coates/Cokes, who later married a Brown.  Melytia and her husband were living with Mary (widow Brown) in 1831 when Melytia's husband was described as Mary's son-in-law.   (In this case it cannot mean stepson, as is sometimes found.)  No, I haven't looked far for a death for Elizabeth, or a marriage which is the other possibility of course.


 
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Friday 29 October 10 18:28 BST (UK)
Hi Jill,

Going back to your original request - John Pottinger.  I have just had a look at the Will of John Pottinger of Compton ( Sept 1802- proved 1803) he mentions ( I think) son Reverend ....? Pottinger and daughter Rachel Palymer (?) so I don't think he is the 'one' from East Ilsley.  Right dates, wrong family ! You were quite right in thinking the 1803 wasn't him. No luck in finding the'right' JP tho' - sorry. 


Regards Angie
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Friday 29 October 10 18:50 BST (UK)
Did you mean me?  That'll be the Rev. Head Pottinger I reckon, he was the vicar of Compton if I remember right.  Rachel married a Palmer, that's right.   There's an extraordinary 1788 will of Thomas Palmer in East Ilsley that mentions him (and John Pottinger of Ashridge Farm who is the one I've been on about).  Thomas gives very lengthy instructions for his funeral and lots of people get a mention, it's quite a read!  ;D
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: wickfield on Friday 29 October 10 20:29 BST (UK)
Hi Angie and SG,

Thank you for the replies. 

Angie:  How do you know that Letitia Pottinger later used the name Melytia?  How were you able to make that connection?  Also, why is Mary Brown referred to as the widow of John Pottinger and not the widow of Mr. Brown?  And finally how were you able to find out that Mary Brown's maiden name was Coates/Cokes or was it related to the possibility that Melytia's mother, Elizabeth, may have been the daughter of John and Hannah Pottinger?  I'm sure that Letitia Pottinger is connected to the Pottingers in Compton some how, and if I could have more information, I may be able to help you make those conections. I've done a lot of research connecting the East Ilsley Pottingers to the Compton Pottingers.

SG:  Regarding the MI you mentioned  "In memory of JOHN POTTINGER who died (--) Oct 17(4)8 aged 6(1) years Also of ROSIN(A) daughter of JOHN and ANN POTTINGER who died (20) Ma(r) 17(--) aged 18 years"   I didn't know that John and Ann (Lever) Pottinger also had another son John Pottinger who died at 6 years old, because John Pottinger's (c. 1758) father John Pottinger was born in 1720.  Do you have any information as to when the other John was born?

Thanks again for the information.

Diane

 
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Friday 29 October 10 21:23 BST (UK)
Sorry SG calling you Jill, this is all getting a bit confusing! Yes that's the Will, I thought it said  Reverend Head Pottinger but wasn't sure.

Hi Diane,

Let's start with what I know ..
Baptism for Letitia Pottinger 20 Sept 1801 East Isley. Mother Elizabeth Pottinger. Taken from 'familysearch' IGI C155331 for East Ilsley.

Melytia Pottinger marriage to Thomas Rumble 8th Sept 1823 East Ilsley, Berks. Witnesses James Deacon
(Parish clerk) and Ann Lambourn.

Leytia and Thomas living at 31 Cow Lane, East Isley with Mary Brown (widow) 1831.  Thomas Rumble described as son-in-law.  Transcribed Melytia in the 1841 but 1851 transcribed in the census as Freylita
So we have Letiya/Melytia/Freylita

Marriage of John Pottinger to Mary Coakes 17 Oct 1792 at East Ilsley
Taken from IGI M155331 for East Ilsley.
Their children : Elizabeth 1793 & Ann 1797.

Marriage of Mary Pottinger (widow) to William Brown 1805 East Ilsley

I think that's it..

So we have Leytia/Melytia living with Mary Brown in 1831 with her husband  Thomas Rumble described as Mary's son-in-law.

Quite a mystery!

 
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Friday 29 October 10 21:26 BST (UK)
And.. I do think Diane, in fairness to SG's original post for John Pottinger's death dates, that we should take this off SG's post as we are hijacking the thread... sorry SG

Please PM me Diane and we can continue the discussion re the elusive Pottingers.

Kind Regards

Angie
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Friday 29 October 10 21:39 BST (UK)
I can confirm that the IGI entries quoted by Angie are in East Ilsley PRs.  

Also, the 1823 marriage to Thomas Rumble gives the bride's name as Melisha (over Letytia).  There are understandably a lot of spelling variations!

Now as to the JPs.  Not sure which other John you mean?  John & Ann Pottinger baptised a son John in EI on 14 Oct 1720.  He might be the one buried in 1786?

The MI presumably refers to John Pottinger b. 1687 who was buried in EI on 14 Oct 1748.  The bits in brackets are places where the inscription was illegible, but some of the missing figures were extrapolated using the parish registers.  He was sixty(something) which points to him being the JP born 1687, husband of Ann.  

No, do carry on discussing Pottingers here!  it's fine.  ;D
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: wickfield on Friday 29 October 10 23:01 BST (UK)
Hi everyone!

Thanks SG for clearing up the MI mis-reading on my part regarding John Pottinger -- I can see now that years refer to 61 or so years.

Also, I know that Elizabeth (Church) Pottinger (c. 1721) lived a long time until 1799 or so (I believe -- I have to check) in East Ilsley after her husband died and presumably helped them through those tragedies (Hannah's and daughter Elizabeth's deaths and husband's death).  But when she died a lot of things fell apart and my GGGGrandfather William Pottinger -- the only son -- left to go into the army actually making a career out of it. I believe the 1720 JP (married to Elizabeth Church and very few children) was fairly well off, but the 1758 JP (married to Hannah Adnams and and Mary Coates and several children) was not well off.

It's possible that Elizabeth Pottinger was a relative who came to East Ilsley to have her baby, Letitia, in 1801 and both were taken in by John and Mary (Coates) Pottinger afterwards to help when they couldn't go back to where they came from. [I don't think being a single mom was a great position to be in in those days].  John Pottinger obviously died before 1805 when Mary re-married.  Perhaps they all just continued to live together as a family helping each other out.  Perhaps Ann Lambourn is the Ann Pottinger (c. 1797) who was like a sister to Letitia (c. 1801) and Mary Coates was like a mother.  Did you ever find a death record for Elizabeth Pottinger after the 1801 birth?

Just some thoughts!

Diane
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: wickfield on Friday 29 October 10 23:21 BST (UK)
Another thought had occured to me and that is perhaps Elizabeth, the mother of Letitia, was Mary Coates' daughter from another marriage.  Mary was older when she married the widower 1758 John Pottinger.  Do we know if Mary Coates was ever married before?

Best regards,

Diane
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Saturday 30 October 10 02:23 BST (UK)
Elizabeth Church Pottinger was buried in EI on 29 Jan 1800 aged 79.

Ann Lambourn, there are a couple of candidates for her among my own connections so I don't think she was ever a Pottinger.  (Having said that, one of them was a COKE before she married and I don't know where she came from, so there might be a connection there.)

The Pottinger-Coakes marriage entry unfortunately doesn't give any status, only that they were both of the parish.  It was a marriage by licence though, so that might reveal something.  There was a Coak/Coake/Coakes family around up to the 1750s, they had a Mary but she seems to have died young.

No death for Elizabeth Pottinger in EI or Compton, and nothing that fits in the BBI.  I think it's most likely that she married after Letitia/Melytia was born.  Not in EI or Compton though.
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Saturday 30 October 10 15:27 BST (UK)
Hi all  :)

Haven't been able to find where Ann (Coke) Lambourn came from but found her marriage to Richard Lambourn 2 May 1791 in East Ilsley.  I have then found her on the 1841 census as Whitehill, East Ilsley aged 80, so perhaps birthdate c. 1761. Maybe sister to Mary (Coke/Coakes) Pottinger/Brown (c. 1759)  , therefore Aunty to Melytia/Letytia. That would be a connection - or clutching at straws!   

The first three children for Melytita & Thomas Rumble ( all daughters) Ann, Elizabeth & Mary.  Of course, they just have been the most popular names at the time, rather than 'clues' !

Still looking for the mother of Melytia/Letytia.

Regards

Angie

Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Saturday 30 October 10 15:48 BST (UK)
Yes, I think that's the most likely Ann.  They did have a daughter Ann b 1808, maybe a little young to be the marriage witness, but possible.  Also Richard Lambourn's brother John married Ann Skinner in 1798, but they disappear from the PR after 1801 when they buried a child, and I haven't found them again after that.  Most likely they left the village soon after, but they could still have been around in 1823.
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Saturday 30 October 10 16:39 BST (UK)
Another thought had occured to me and that is perhaps Elizabeth, the mother of Letitia, was Mary Coates' daughter from another marriage.  Mary was older when she married the widower 1758 John Pottinger.  Do we know if Mary Coates was ever married before?

This might be worth looking into.  No indication in the PR as I said, but there was a licence.  Mary was buried 19 May 1841 and her age given as 78, suggests she was born c1763 - certainly old enough to have been a widow with a daughter the right age.  And feasible that any such daughter took her stepfather's name of Pottinger.
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Saturday 30 October 10 17:36 BST (UK)
Yes I had thought that was a good possibility too, I have spent the afternoon (frustratingly) looking for earlier marriages by Mary to a Mr. Coates/Coakes/Coke no luck yet, but I certainly feel it is worth a try  :) I am more inclined to believe that Melytia/Leytita is connected with Mary rather than John Pottinger . I feel that Mary would be more likely to keep the baby and bringing her up if she was possibly her grand-daughter. Each extra mouth to feed was at a cost so Mary must have had a very good reason to keep the baby with her.  The notion that this is a child of Mary's (first) Elizabeth who was entered in the Registers as Pottinger has more substance to it the more I think about it. 
I also feel that this Elizabeth has died - I may be wrong -  I can find   no trace of her after the baptism of Letitia - nothing, no burial, no marriage - she just vanished!  I also feel that Mary would not call her daughter Elizabeth (daughter with JP) if this Elizabeth was still alive.
I thought about  Bastardy Records, but it seems from what I have read that (if it exists) it may be a long -shot as they were not documents that were always kept.

I will carry on now with looking for a marriage and possible children from an earlier marriage for Mary..

 ;D Oh what fun !
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: wickfield on Monday 01 November 10 14:28 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone!

If Ann Lambourn's maiden name was Coke and if Ann and Mary were sisters, then Mary's maiden name would also be some form of Coke/Coakes.  If Mary Coakes married someone before she married John Pottinger then his last name could really be anything.  I agree with Angie that Melytia/Leytita is more likely to be connected to Mary Coakes than John Pottinger, because of how connected they remained on into the future where as John Pottinger's children (namely William Pottinger) left the area forever after his father 1758 John Pottinger and his grandmother 1721 Elizabeth (Church) Pottinger died.  I really don't know what happened to the other two children of John and Hannah Pottinger.  Is there a marriage (or death record) for any of the other children of John and Hannah (Adnams) Pottinger, namely Mary Pottinger (c. 1786 in East Ilsley) and Sarah Pottinger (c. 1789 in East Ilsley).

I have the Pottinger's of Compton and they are seperate from the East Isley ones. John Pottinger of Compton, Inn proprieter, married Elizabeth Head in 1759.

In case anyone is interested, the John Pottinger of Compton, Inn proprieter, married to Elizabeth Head in 1759, is a distant cousin of the 1687 John Pottinger married to Ann Lever.  The two John Pottingers share the common ancestor John Pottinger (c. 1588) of Compton married to Katheren Pyper in 1613.  And the 1588 John Pottinger is the son of Gregory Pottinger (d. 1639) of Compton married to Catharyn Allwyn (d. 1631) in 1585 in Compton.

Best regards,

Diane 


Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Monday 01 November 10 18:47 GMT (UK)
If Ann Lambourn's maiden name was Coke and if Ann and Mary were sisters, then Mary's maiden name would also be some form of Coke/Coakes. 

This is certainly possible, the spellings are all over the place.  I did wonder if Ann was a COOK.

If Mary Coakes married someone before she married John Pottinger then his last name could really be anything. 

Not so, if she was a widow then it's her maiden name that we don't know.  She married him as Coakes.

I really don't know what happened to the other two children of John and Hannah Pottinger.  Is there a marriage (or death record) for any of the other children of John and Hannah (Adnams) Pottinger, namely Mary Pottinger (c. 1786 in East Ilsley) and Sarah Pottinger (c. 1789 in East Ilsley).

Nothing that I can see in EI.  But there are various other parishes nearby that aren't easily checkable online.
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Tuesday 02 November 10 22:17 GMT (UK)
I did find this as a  possible for Sarah Pottinger (1789) daughter of JP and Hannah.
A bit of a long-shot without any proof I'm afraid, but right age and right place  so I thought was worth a look:
Census 1851 HO107/1694/F390 Cookham Union, Cookham, Berks
Sarah May. Widow. 62. Born East Ilsley
Census 1841 HO107/0021/11/F10 Great Common, Inkpen, Berks
Jonas May. Head. 55. Ag Lab
Sarah May. Wife. 55
Jesse May. 15.
Marriage : (submitted entry only) About 1810 Jonas May to 'Mrs' Sarah May ?? Inkpen, Berkshire.
Haven't  been able to find anything else for their marriage on the IGI, maybe someone else will have more luck  :)

Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: ribbo39 on Tuesday 02 November 10 23:13 GMT (UK)
Hi all,
I have found a marriage by licence of of John Pottinger - is he one of the many you are trying to find?
Marriage  - Wilts, Dorset & Berks Marriage Licence Bonds (ex WFHS)
Licence # 33138 POTTINGER, John, Yeo, Beedon, Berks, WID to Mary COOKS East Ilsley, Sp. Bondsman - William HUSEY, Servt. Oct. 15 1792

I see this marriage is in the East Ilsley's PRs but that Mary is listed as COAKES, botp and the date is Oct 17

Perhaps you have this info already

Alan
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Sloe Gin on Wednesday 03 November 10 00:30 GMT (UK)
Ah splendid stuff, Alan, thank you so much for this.  That answers an important question - Mary was not married before so her birth name is Coakes or a variant thereof.

Appears to be an anomaly over John's parish, but not much - the family seems to have been at Ashridge Farm which is just on the Beedon/East Ilsley borders.  We know John was a widower but it was Mary we weren't sure of.  Angie will be pleased with this!  ;D
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Wednesday 03 November 10 15:09 GMT (UK)
 ;D There isn't a smiley for 'hop skip and jump' that's terrific Alan! I have just written to Berks RO for any information they may have, and now you have found it for us, I'm delighted.   It answers many questions.  Melissha/Leytita Pottinger is my( g x ...) grandmother so a personal connection for me .

Well done & very many thanks for taking the time and effort

Angie
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: Captain2 on Thursday 04 November 10 19:02 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

I receive confirmation that in the original EI registers the marriage is between John Pottinger and Mary Coakes
October 15th 1792 is the date the licence was issued
and  October 17th 1792 the date of the marriage.

A very BIG thank you to all, your help and advice has been much appreciated.  I shall carry on now trying to get to the bottom of the Melytia/Melissha/Leytita mystery - wish me luck!

Very kind regards

Angie
Title: Re: Help needed to 'kill off' a couple of POTTINGERS
Post by: matgeorges on Monday 11 November 24 10:50 GMT (UK)
Hi
Our family are the Pottingers of Compton Of Roden House. I have an extensive tree and they are not from East Ilsley. They were in Compton in the 1500's. We are descended from Rachel who married John Palmer from East Ilsley.  I am happy to see if you're are on the tree if it helps but none of the names ring a bell. Michelle