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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: suemartin on Sunday 02 May 10 08:04 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I have traced a great Aunt, Maud King to Tasmania married to a Robert John Gardam. They were married before 1914 as I have electoral records of her as Maud Gardam nothing in Australia as Maud King.
She was born in Darjeeling on 20th February 1884. Her parents were Ada Golding and Thomas H King. She had 2 sisters; Edith Lillian King b. 1891 Bareilly India, my grandmother and another Hilda Clare King b. 1892 Nowgong, India, whom I cant find anything on at all...
I dont know if the father died in India or if they all came out together to Australia. I cant find a death for him.
The Gardam's are a Tasmanian family but Robert and Maud ended up in Victoria sometime in between 1914 ands 1924. Anyway Im hoping someone may find something for me....
thanks
Sue
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Hi,
There is a ww1 service record for one ROBERT JOHN GARDAM who was born in TASMANIA.
He joined 2/10/1917 .
His stint was short and he was discharged due to "Family hardships"
His occupation was FARMER and his next of Kin was his wife
Mrs. R. J. Gardam.
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/ResearcherScreen.asp
You can search here yourself and see the record..
Sue
Just ADDING to ask the question.
What evidence do you have of a MARRIAGE?
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Deaths
GARDAMRobert John
Father Gardam Stephen George Mother Maria BALDOCK
At Dandenong 72 years 1945 Reg#22435
GARDAM Maud
Father King Thomas Mother Ada UNKNOWN
At Dandenong 75 years 1956 Reg#23042
Cando
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Hi There,
Maud Gardam (nee king)
died 1956/23042
age75 place Dandenong Victoria
Father Thomas King
mother Ada Unknown
Robert John Gardam
died 1945/22435
age 72 Dandenong Victoria
Father Stephen George Gardam
Mother Maria Baldock
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Births
GARDAM Winifred Ida
Father Rob Jno Mother Maud KING
At St Kilda 1914 Reg#7969
GARDAM Evelyn
Father Robt Jno Mother Maud KING
At Leongatha 1915 Reg#14106
GARDAM Ruth Ethel
Father Robert Jno Mother Maude KING
At Leongatha 1919 Rg#20649
Cando
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The couple were cremated at SPRINGVALE
MAUD GARDAM.15/05/1956. CREMATION
The cremated remains have been scattered
ROBERT JOHN GARDAM. 12/11/1945.CREMATION
The cremated remains have been scattered.
Sue
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Looks as though there may be a report of their son's wedding in The Argus, Thursday 15 September 1938? (Stony Creek is about 30k from Leongatha)
Yes, it is! The death notice for Robert John GARDAM is in The Argus, Monday 12 November 1945. showing the 9 children and one of them is the bridegroom above.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
Judith
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A birth in Tasmania however I can't see a marriage in Tasmania.
GARDAM Quendon Stephen
Father Robert John GARDAM Mother Maud GARDAM nee King
26 Nov 1912
At North Motton Reg#5830
Australian Electoral Records
1914 Tasmania
GARDAM Maud North Motton Domestic duties
GARDAM Robert John North Motton Farmer
1914 Victoria
GARDAM Maud Foster HD
GARDAM Robert John Milford Farmer
Any of the birth certificates of children born in Victoria will show the date and place of their marriage.
Cando
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wow thats awesome. I have some of this but dates are great thanks so much...
I thought that perhaps Robert may have been married before as there are so many kids and some of them stayed in Tassie when the rest of the family moved to Stony Creek in Victoria.
Perhaps they were married in Victoria?
The thing is I never knew my Nanna had sisters I dont think even my mother knew that. Its just so weird. There must have been a big falling out somewhere Im guessing... My Nanna Edith King married in Victoria in 1912.
Just trying to work out what age they must have been when they came to Australia. I suspect Thomas King may have died in India as there is no record of him after 1900. Unless they came here but I have searched logs etc and can find no Thomas King or Ada King. I found a departure from Hobart and arrival in Victoria on the Moeraki for Edith L King in March 1912 so thats got to be Nanna. Would people come out from India and go to Hobart? I would have thought that they would land in Melbourne first.
Anyway I really appreciate your help thanks so much...
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According the the WW1 service file for Robert John GARDAM, he enlisted from Tasmania in 1917, so they obviously returned to Tasmania after the birth of Evelyn but were back in Gippsland by 1919 for the birth of Ruth Ethel.
I have searched in Victoria but am unable to find a marriage. Found. Their first child was born Tasmania 1912. As I mentioned previously any of the birth certificates of the children born in Victoria will show the date and place of their marriage. You can purchase an image of certificates in Victoria for $17.50 and immediately download
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Cheers
Cando
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Found it....mistranscribed ::) ::)
KING Maud born Darjeeling
GORDON Robert John born Devonport
1911 Reg#8702
Cheers
Cando
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Hi
Not sure how much information you have on the GARDAM family in Tas., but here you will see a list of the many siblings of ROBERT JOHN.
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/nameindexes
Sue
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I wonder if this is Maud's arrival in Victoria :-\
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23
KING Maud 22 years arrived on May 1908 on the OROTAVA Port B Fiche 770 Page 006
Cando
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You guys are awesome... Cando is that marriage in Tassie? Sue thankyou so much thats some interesting info...
So I have a space of between 1900 and 1911 to found the family on shipping records.... take a bow guys thats great!!
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The marriage was in Victoria.
I think that the passenger record of a Maud KING arriving in Melbourne in 1908 is a possibility.
Cando
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Is this your Ada?
KING Ada
Father Golding Thomas Mother Maryann BUTLER
At Dandenong 82 years 1948 Reg#22575
The death certificate would have the time in Australia and then in each state ie if known by the informant.
Cando
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Cando not sure about the arrival there is a few Kings... Maud should have been 24... Is there anywhere I can look that tells me where the boat came from. Thomas H King, Maud's father was a widow when he married Maud's mother Ada so these older names could well have been related...
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Yes thats Ada!!!! wowowowowow.... you are awesome!!
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The ship sailed from England and ages on shipping records are not always reliable. Her occupation was domestic. Port B indicates the ship left a British Port.
Both Ada's and Maud's death certificates should give you a better idea of when they arrived ie if the informant knew.
Cando
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Hi
ADA KNG was cremated at SPRINGVALE
ADA KING
Date of Service 01/11/1948
Burial Type CREMATION
Location Details-- The cremated remains have been scattered.
Sue
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Of the cremations for THOMAS H. KING at Springvale, perhaps this is the most likely.
THOMAS HENRY KING
Date of Service 31/05/1967
Burial Type CREMATION
Location Details The cremated remains have been scattered.
You may like to search again
http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php
Sue
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Thankyou all so much... you have all been so kind :)
Time to invest in some certificates now... Ill let you know...
Thanks heaps for your help...
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The above gentleman was 70 years of age according to the death index - b. c1893.
Do you have Thomas H KING's parents names?
A couple of possibilities
KING Thomas Henry
Father King Henry Mother Mary Irene HARVEY
At Traralgon 78 years 1941 Reg#22223
KING Thomas Henry
Father King Thomas Henry Mother Louisa MASON
At Heidelberg 81 years 1944 Reg#11352
Cando
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These were the other names of children I had been given in ancestry born to Maud and Robert through a Gardam family tree.... Im thinking there may have been another wife earlier in Tassie...
Beryl
Betty
Joan Dorothy
JohnRobert
Maxwell John
Robert was in his 30's when he married Maud so these ones could easily have been to someone else. What do you think ladies and gents?
x
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Thomas H King served in the British Army in India mainly the Bengal area. He was a widower when he married Ada and his fathers name on the Cert was Thomas King. I presumed he came from England. He is mentioned in Thacker's Indian Directory from 1892 last mention 1900. He was in the Commissariat Department Served up to Captain then Superintendent in 1900. Ada was born in india they married 7th May 1883. Ada was 16 when she married.
May need to look up those other names in Fibis now to see wherther they are his children to his first marriage..maybe they all came to Australia together... though Ada is not mentioned in 1908. Exciting hey...
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I have given you four births to Robert and Maud - Quentin, Winifred, Evelyn and Ruth...and the newspaper snippet indicates that the first three are in the same order - did you search for the death notice....url in an earlier post. I very much doubt there was an earlier marriage. The other children were obviously born post 1920.
GARDAM.-On November 10. at Dandenong, Robert John, the dearlv beloved husband of Maude Gardam. of Peel street, Berwick, and loving father of Quentin, Winifred (Mrs. Gardam), Evelyn (Mrs. Meiers), Betty (Mrs. McQuire). Ruth (Mrs. Macdonald), Beryl (d'ceased) Joan (Mrs. Robson). John, and Max, aged. 72 years.
-In God's care.
The birth index in Victoria only extends to 1920 and in Tasmania 1919.
Cando
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May need to look up those other names in Fibis
From the limited research I have done in India, I understand it was not compulsory to register events. I think most of the birth records are actually baptisms. I have found some baptisms on Fibis and other children of the same family who were baptised did not have their records transcribed for some reason.
If Thomas H was born in England perhaps you do have a search to see if you could find him on a census.
Cheers
Cando
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thanks Cando and I think you are right about the births... ok well its to the certs I go....
thankyou again...
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Deaths
GARDAM Beryl [b.c1923]
Father Gardam Robert John Mother Maude KING
At Berwick 19 years 1942 Reg#1645
GARDAM Winifred Ida
Father Robert John Mother Maud KING
At Heidelberg 60 years 1974 Reg#30039
ROBSON Joan Dorothy [b. c1927]
Father Gardam Robert Mother Maude
At Dandenong 53 years 1980 Reg#01175
Cando
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Marriages to 1942 in Victoria
GARDAM Evelyn
MEIERS Burnett Henry
1935 Reg#363
GARDAM Winifred Ida
GARDAM Roy Thomas
1936 Reg#470
GARDAM Quentin Stephen
FITZGERALD Theresa Anne
1938 Reg#10088
Cando
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KING Thomas Henry
Father King Thomas Henry Mother Louisa MASON
At Heidelberg 81 years 1944 Reg#11352
this guy is a possibility ill look up ancestry england files... thanks :)
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The THOMAS HENRY KING who died in Heidleberg is interred at Fawkner.
Date 27/10/1944
The information does not tell us much :-[
Fawkner Memorial Park wishes to advise that the location of the cremated remains of the late Thomas Henry King aged 81 are not listed in the database.
You might get more information from a manual search of the archives (a small fee applies). Email enquiryATfcmp.com.au
Sue
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Thanks Sue I have made the inquiry...its a long shot but it wouod be great if it was him :) thanks
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Looks like it's not him.
According to The Argus, the Thomas Henry KING who died in Heidelberg 1944 lived in Clunes, wife Ellen and sons Thomas and Frederick.
:(
Judith
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Bummer... Just heard back from the cemetery and they couldnt help me no other info... ok I think he may have died in India just have a hunch. I am going to get Ada Kings death cert that may help. Stay tuned...
thanks :)
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Hi Sue,
Good on you for following up on leads. :D :D
The chatters sometimes find, disappointingly, that suggestions, directions ideas and purchases made by those trying to help are never pursued.
The way to clear outcomes and strong conclusions lies in persistent digging and delving!
Sue
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Ok here it is;
Ada King
Usual place of address: Princess Hwy, Berwick.
Father Thomas Golding - School Teacher
Mother : Maryann Golding nee Butler
Born in Lancashire (I have a record with Thomas and Maryann for India unless it was registered in england as well ?)
Lived in Australia for 53 years.
Married in Calcutta to Thomas Henry King
At date of death she was a widow.
Children in order of birth;
Maude 65
Alice dec.
Daisy dec.
Edith 50
Ernest 48
Harold 46
So no Hilda clare perhaps she died at birth... but a couple more to find Ernest and Harold....
Where to go now...
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There is a record for a Thomas King in FIBIS;
Name : Thomas KING
Date of Death 23 Sep 1895
Location: Victoria (is that Victoria Australia maybe?)
Status: Hon Lt & Depy Asst-Commisy, Com-Trans Dept (retd)
Can anyone look this one up for me and give me a reg# I will get the cert if its there....
If Ada was here from 1891 then Ernest and Harold must be born here... sorry I know you are not my personal lookup people but I am rather excited at this point. :D
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I noted the same thing re the ages of the children and her years in Australia...well who was their father? Looks like an illegitimate birth for Harold.
GOLDING Harold Edward
Father Unknown Mother Ada GOLDING
At Armadale 1902 Reg#7286R
KING Harold Edward
Father Unknown Mother Ada GOLDING
At Armadale 1902 Reg# 7286R
Cando
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Mmmmmm... the plot thickens! I thought it was going to get easier....
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Births
KING Herbert Henry
Father Thomas Mother Ada GOLDING
At St Kilda 1895 Reg#32962
GOLDING Ernest
Father Unknown Mother Ada GOLDING
At Carlton 1900 Reg#1591
GOLDING William Henry
Father Unknown Mother Ada GOLDING
At Carlton 1898 Reg#1902
Cando
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Deaths
GOLDING William Henry
Father Unknown Mother Ada GOLDING
At Melbourne East 1898 Reg#8495
KING Alice
Father King Thomas Mother Ada GOLDING
9 years at Melbourne South 1898 Ref#8865
KING Herbert Henry
Father King Thomas Mother Ada GOLDING
At St Kilda 1896 Reg#4031
KING Monica
Father King Thomas Mother Ada GOLDING
8 years at South Melbourne Reg#8867
Who was the informant on the death certificate. These children should have been noted as deceased.
Cando
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Oh my goodness!!!
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Is this them arriving in April 1895 in Melbourne on the BHUNDARA Port F Fiche 299 Page 002. By the Fiche and Page Numbers appear to be a family from a Foreign Port.
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23
KING Child 9 years
KING Child 8 years
KING Child 4 years
KING Child 5 years
KING Lieut 50 years
KING Mrs 40 years
Cando
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The informant was a William James Garner Authorised Agent 10 Walker Street Dandenong. He was the undertaker.
Cando can you look this one up for me see if it exists? Name : Thomas KING
Date of Death 23 Sep 1895
Location: Victoria (is that Victoria Australia maybe?)
Status: Hon Lt & Depy Asst-Commisy, Com-Trans Dept (retd)
Also no date for Monica's death... My Nanna never spoke of any of same for my Mum who is still alive but has a disorder that has taken her memory...
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Well someone had to give the family information to the undertaker :)
There are two KING Thomas deaths in 1895 but I think you mentioned that Thomas's father was also Thomas.
KING Thomas
Father Thomas Mother Unknown KING
At Prahan Alfred Hospital 55 years 1895 Reg#10824
Cando
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Digitised will for Thomas KING d 25 September 1895, wife Ada, children: Maud, Alice, Daisy, Edith and Herbert, formerly of pension establishment Bengal, India
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/access/probate.asp
Edit to add - all estate left to his wife. Address: Linton (Lenton?) St , Balaclava. He died at the Alfred Hospital and one of the witnesses for this will was the Head Nurse.
Judith
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St Kilda Cemetery
KING Thomas
Date of Service 26 Sep 1895
55 years Burial
Location - There is a note to contact Administration on (03) 8558 8278
Public Grave Yes
Tenure Date This memorial is held in perpetuity - for all time
Cando
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There is a gazetted article for this boat Cando it was held in quarantine with smallpox!
http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/images/1895/V/general/60.pdf
That may explain some things perhaps.
Judith thats amazing thanks heaps for that.
You guys are awesome, amazing and I wish I had come here so much sooner....
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A snippet and there are probably more
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13992998?searchTerm=BHUNDARA
Cando
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Well how sad is that. I have printed the probate records. Poor Ada must have been heartbroken losing children and a husband. So I will collate the children and see what the next step is. thanks you all for al of this. Its been a great ride although I am saddened at the deaths etc.
Weird how you want to cry for relatives you dont even know. Empathy is a great thing.
I gotta go to work was supposed to be doing an assignment... shame it wasn't on family history. :)
thanks heaps again catch you al later x
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A bit more
GARDAM, Winifred Ida
Burial 5 Dec 1974 Leongatha Cemetery
GARDAM Annie Rosa
Death 11 Mar 1948 Burial 12 Mar 1948 Cranbourne Cemetery
GARDAM Arthur.
Death 29 Apr 1960 Burial 2 May 1960 Leongatha Cemetery
Will have another look at my resources to see what else I can find for you.
Cando
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thanks so much... just love putting all the pieces together... :)
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Cando do you think Monica might be Daisy?
KING Monica
Father King Thomas Mother Ada GOLDING
8 years at South Melbourne Reg#8867
and if I could trouble you for a date?
thanks :)
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Hi all,
I purchased thomas's Death Cert but there was really nothing more on there to be of any help. The earlier stuff didnt have much info on them like the older ones.
Harold Edward lived till 1998 and is cremated at Springvale got to be family there.... his wife was Mona Amelia who was also cremated at Springvale. Harold used the name King as did his brother Ernest. Ernest married Nellie Irene and not sure when he died as there are a couple of Ernests' and a couple of Nellies...
We dont have a record for Quentin Gardam anywhere either...he seems to have disappeared. Well today I know much more than yesterday thankyou for your kindness. x
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Cando do you think Monica might be Daisy?
KING Monica
Father King Thomas Mother Ada GOLDING
8 years at South Melbourne Reg#8867
and if I could trouble you for a date?
thanks :)
1898 Sorry about the omission :-[
Cando
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Australian Electoral Roll
1954 Victoria
GARDAM Quinton Stephen, Dumbalk Labourer
GARDAM Theresa Dumbalk HD
and on the same page with different spelling...
GARDHAM Roy Thomas Dumbalk Labourer
GARDHAM Winifred Ida Dumbalk HD
GARDAM, Roy Thomas died 1 Jun 1978 and buried in the Yallourn Cemetery
GARDAM Roy Thomas
Father Arthur Mother Elizabeth Mary CONNOR
At Traralgon 70 years 1978 Reg#12567
GARDAM, Quentin Steven died 13 Dec 1990 aged 78 years and is buried in the Maffra Cemetery Religion Church of England.
Husband of Teresa [deceased]
Marriage
GARDAM Quentin Stephen
FITZGERALD Theresa Anne
1938 Reg#10088
Death
KING Ernest
Father Thomas Henry Mother Ada GOLDING
At Hawthorn 64 years 1964 Reg#22330
KING Nellie Irene
Father Leedham John Mother Isabella
At Kew 83 years 1982 Reg#24526
Ernest and Nellie Irene are buried at
http://www.fcmp.com.au/
Have you had a browse through the GARDAM listings on whitepages?
Cando
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This publication may help you if you are interested in tracing the GARDAM's in Tasmania
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/4273167
Cando
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I purchased thomas's Death Cert but there was really nothing more on there to be of any help. The earlier stuff didnt have much info on them like the older ones.
What was Thomas's cause of death and were the children all listed?
Cando
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Hi Cando,
I have the cert at home so Ill let you know.... Daisy is a bit of a mystery I think Daisy and Monica are one in the same...bit weird. You are amazing...how do you do it?
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Hi Sue
Just browsing and the name Gardam caught my eye. I have a photo of my husbands great grandfather Jefferson Taylor with the Gardams picture would have been taken in or around Gippsland. Let me know if you would like a copy.
Regards
Jo
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Oh yes please Maud Gardam was my Nanna's sister, they lived in Leongatha early on after Tassie. I have no photos of anyone. Im just longing to see what they all look like. You are so kind.
Email :
Moderator Comment: email address removed as per RootsChat policy. Please use our secure PM system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
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Hi Sue,
I have just happened to come across this site. Quentin Stephen Gardam was my Pop. My mum spoke to his sister Betty about the family history. We may be able to share some information and photos on the family history you don't already have.
Let me know if you're interested.
Michelle
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Hello Michelle,
So nice to finally have a family contact. How wonderful it is to finally have someone to talk to.
I will send you a private messge
thanks
Sue
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this was my grand mother
my mother was winifred ida
now passed on in 1974
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Maud was my Great Aunt my Nanna Edith Lillian's older sister. Nice to meet you. I didn't know until I started this search that my Nanna had any family at all let alone brothers and sisters. She never spoke of anyone, did yours? My mother had no idea that Nanna had a family alive in Victoria. It was most amazing to us to find this all out. Mum is 89 this year.
I have a family tree on Ancestry that I am happy to send you the link to if you would like to see what I have. You never know you may be able to solve the mystery of why we never knew... I will pm you with my email addy. :)
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it is roy thomas gardam and winifred ida gardam
there is no h in it
this was my mother and farther
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Hi Jack24 thats wonderful news. Did you know your grandmother Maud?
Did you access my ancestry tree? There is a photo of Maud and some of her children. Is your mother in there?
My Uncle Paul is still alive and lives in Victoria still also my mother Suzanne here in Western Australia, who would be your cousins.
Nice to have found a relative. I have sent you my email address previously and if you could share a pic or two with me that would be wonderful. Of course I would happily do the same.
I have Maud and Robert Gardam as having 9 children:
Betty
John
Maxwell
Quentin
Winifred
Evelyn
Ruth
Beryl
Joan
Is this correct or am I wrong. I would love your help to fix any mistakes. thanks
Sue
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hi there are some missing mick/ bonny these were son and daughter as well of maud and robert
i will scan some pics in later
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Thanks so much I really appreciate it. :)
I will get a pic of Nanna Maud's sister that I have at work and send it on to you
Sue
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Dear Ms Martin,
I have literally fallen across your posts. I am not sure of I am barking up the wrong tree, however, my birth name is Gardam. I have viewed your posts and there are a number of similarities in dates and persons on my fathers side of the family. His name was John Robert Gardam. He may very well be the son of Robert. He lived in Leongatha in Victoria, Australia. The Gardam family was in the habit of naming children after those before them. My father married a woman: Thelma. I was adopted at the age of three. If you feel I may be of assistance, pls do reply
Regards....Deborah
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Hello Deborah,
Yes John Robert Gardam is the son of Robert John Gardam and Maud King (my great Aunt). His wife's name was Thelma Mary and thats all I know...
My Grandmother was Maud's sister Edith. I have a tree on online if you are interested. I will send you a private message. Take care and nice to have found you :)
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Good morning Ms Martin,
Thelma Mary ( née Burrows) was my birth mother. To assist you in your family tree I have the names and birth dates etc of my siblings (11 of them). I was adopted out at the age of three and sought out information when the
Was were changed here in Melbourne re the adoption laws. I met my natural father and some of my siblings. My mother passed away when I was 3, other siblings were also adopted out and some fended for themselves. I am the 3 rd youngest. 2 brothers are now deceased ( one younger and one older than I ). My father was living in Jamieson when he passed away in the late 90's. I also have some photos should you be interested. My father was very closed when it came to talking about his past and as such, I had no idea as to where my family roots originated on his side of the family. I would love to see the family tree. I am in constant contact with my niece and grand nieces and grand nephew... They bring me much joy and a wonderful sense of family.
Kind regards......Deborah
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Hi Sue,
I have tried to send you an email but it wouldn't go through. Is there another way of contacting you. I received yours from Friday last.
Regards Deborah
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Hi All
i know this thread is all, but just wanted to jump in. I noticed that one of my dad's brother or sister messaged in here. I am Rod Gardam's Son. His Parents are Roy Thomas and Winifred Ida Gardam. And Winifred Parents were Robert and Maud.
I am very keen to see which one of my uncle's/Auntie messaged on here.
I have a very detailed family tree and dad has alot of old photos, include wedding photos of my Grandparents that might have Maud in the pics. I would have to ask dad.
Sorry if this thread is no longer followed, but thought I would jump in.
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Sorry if this thread is no longer followed, but thought I would jump in.
You jump in, all are welcome :D Once you reply to a topic the members are notified of your reply.
Regards
Sarah