RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: eadaoin on Sunday 25 April 10 18:11 BST (UK)
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Is anyone else having trouble with this site - for a few days it wouldn't load at all.
Now it keeps giving error messages, etc
eadaoin
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Got error message all day yesterday and finally got a new link to Irish civil index last night which seems to still work today-
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
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thanks, Aghadowey
it seems to work for Births and Deaths (also Residence????, whatever it means by that ) ... no Marriages, not even ones I had before
eadaoin
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Strange, isn't it. Clicking 'residence' seems to get marriage results. However, I checked for grandfather's cousin with fairly common name (I already have marriage) and after putting in her name and selecting county there were only 2 entries- neither hers! Perhaps they're still working on it.
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Anyone know what's happening here?
All the records I've looked for seem to be there but Marriage results are now coming up as 'Residence'.
Dara.
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Not only are marriages listed under 'residence' but they aren't all there! Did a search just now for a name where I know there are at least 5 marriages in Co. Londonderry and 1 came up but it wasn't any of the ones I know about. Suppose we'll just have to wait for LDS to fix the problem.
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Releived to hear that its a fault - I thought I was losing the plot!
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And now a Service Error message comes up saying there is a server error - so it looks as if they are working on it. Hopefully the missing records will be back soon!
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Seems to be working again but with more information this time :)
Castlemcauliffe
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the web-site is back up and allowing basic access, but the BMD index is still missing many births and marriages.
New sources are listed for Ireland, but not clear exactly where this data originates :
Ireland Births & Baptisms, 1620 - 1881
Ireland Deaths 1864 - 1870
Ireland Marriages 1619 - 1898
Shane
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No, not fixed yet. Just did a couple of searches with no results (when I know the records exist), marriages that do come up listed as 'residence' rather than marriage and a few really strange locations (not in Ireland where I was searching) and when the record was checked it was a place in Ireland!
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Have found a few deaths records and gives the townland of death etc.
Plus found marriages which give father's name maybe when fully uploaded all this information will be covered.
Castlemcauliffe
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The new marriages look like they could be full extracts of civil or church registers as they include details for both the bride and groom. See sample transcript extract below :
Groom's Name: Thomas Fitzsimons
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Father's Name: William Fitzsimons
Bride's Name: Sarah Cooper Or Ruskell
Bride's Father's Name: Robert Ruskell
Bride's Marital Status: Widowed
Marriage Date: 05 Jan 1858
Marriage Place: Castlemacadam, Wick, Ireland
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70218-9 [??]
System Origin: Ireland-EASy [??]
Reference Number: 640
Collection: Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898
Shane
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On the positive side- checked under births & baptisms 1620-1881 that Shane posted (separate from civil index) and they've added parents' names on the search results page!
However, need to be cautious with the results- one record had baptism of child with father's birthplace filled in- was actually the family's residence at the time of baptisms (and in this case I know father was born elsewhere).
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the only major detail that I see left out of the birth details is the father's occupation, which can be very useful. I dont know how good the coverage is yet but using these details will probably save people a few Euro as they can confirm marriage, and parents details etc without having to order a cert..
and since the full details are available you can also find most of the children in a family using the mothers maiden name, similar to the IGI parent search.
Shane
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From what i can make out its looks like alot of the new information on the pilot site. Is simply copied from the old family search site. But defo completely new information as well.
Castlemcauliffe
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Is it just me or are there still some problems with the site? I'm getting an error message a lot of the time & the site is sticking when I do get in ???
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it's just gone down for me with the server error again...
S.
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Looks like they are loading huge amount of information at the moment.
Alot of United State records have being added over last week. I expect we may have to wait maybe a week or so for normal service to resume.
But will be alot more helpfull records on there so will pay off :)
Castlemcauliffe
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I was able to get details of census records for Ohio that launched the original census page - that seems to have gone - hope its just temporary and that ulitimately this will be restored.
Having said that dont think that we should complain, considering how much this site has contributed - cost free.!
Many thanks to all at the IGI!
Mags
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Having said that dont think that we should complain, considering how much this site has contributed - cost free.!
Many thanks to all at the IGI!
Mags
I second that!
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I have been unable to get onto the Irish civil registration index at http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=fs%3A1408347&p=collectionDetails
and wonder if anyone else has had the same experience. It seems as if the index is no longer available. I can only get records in Kerry up to 1879 and these seem to be copies of what is available on the www.irishgenealogy.ie site for the Kerry parishes.
Can anybody throw any light on this - I am aware that the search tool has been changed .
annclare
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The familysearch site is still having problems this morning... many marriages and births that were included before the update are now missing.
The new Irish collections look like enhanced extracted IGI records.
Shane
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Hi
Just been on familysearch Ireland index it has been updated if you click on marriage it brings up the name of bride and grooms father marriage district and also any children they might have had. Birth/death now gives date area in the case of child deaths it gives father or mothers occupation only.Sorry if rootschatters already know this.
bloodties
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Have merged your post with ongoing thread here- as of a little while ago the site is still not functioning perfectly and accuracy of searches leaves much to be desired although we are all hoping it will soon be running smoothly.
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Hi,
These are three new sites from family search, births, deaths and marriages.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584963
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584965
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584964
bob
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Hi,
These are three new sites from family search, births, deaths and marriages.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584963
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584965
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584964
bob
These are the extracted Births, Marriages and Deaths which seem to be based on IGI records. It's the original Civil BMD index which is giving problems
Shane
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just to update...
I've been in touch with Familysearch tech support and they were not aware of a specific problem with the Irish Civil records Index after their recent update. They have asked for some specific examples of missing records to test with, which I have just provided.
Shane
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Hi Shane
All of the records are missing from 1900's
e.g. Edward rooney my grandfather
Regards
genseacher
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Shane here is one that could be tested
Name: Edward Rooney
Registration District: Dublin North
Quarter and Year : July - Sept 1932
Married Margaret Gorman
And I think the references are
Volume 2 - Page 312
Regards
Genseacher
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thanks... I gave them quite a list of missing marriages that I have details of from 1847 to 1927, but I didn't have full references for all of them. I'll add that one to the test list to send them if they need more details.
Shane
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I've had a response from familysearch support and include some quotes :
"....thank you for your reply and for the details provided. We are passing your feedback to our engineers for their consideration as there is further work to do on the collection."
They go on to state that the have found all the example marriages by
"..conduct[ed] marriage searches by opening 2 tabs in our browser and searching in exact close and partial in the collection for names only. We then apply filters for the event year range and select the event 'residence' in the case of marriage searches to narrow results. We await at present further work to enable filter by registration district."
It looks like the search method for marriages has changed slightly and requires an search on all locations and events first, then filtering on the residence, rather than marriage as before - which was mentioned by aghadowey earlier. Including the the county in the search seems to cause the 'no results' error for many of the recent (19202/30s) births.... as leaving this out returns many of them for me.
I haven't checked other marriages using this method yet.
They also mention they the plan to changing the familysearch website and adding improved search capabilities.
Shane
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Shane- Did a search last night for 'Andrew Torrens" and several possibilities came up. However, there was no 'place' option to narrow down the search results. :'(
Also I noticed that after doing a search on the main page (for all records) and then trying to narrow down the place some strange results come up (Irish counties in Irish and English, Canadian provinces in French and English but not same ones for each).
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Shane- Did a search last night for 'Andrew Torrens" and several possibilities came up. However, there was no 'place' option to narrow down the search results.....
I tried a search for Andrew and did get 'place' as a filter option - even though I'm in the Irish Civil Records collections it includes some unusual places as well a a few Irish counties..
I think a difficulty with the term 'location' in their revised database might be the key to the problem... At the moment it's difficult to understand what's going wrong with the searches unless they decide to let me look at the data structure...and that's not going to happen.
Shane
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ignore me.... I did that last search in a browser that had all collections selected by mistake...
S.
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Searched again for 'Andrew Torrens' on all records page and places now come up but searching for same name in Civil registration index there is still no place option!
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There certainly looks like some some of an index problems - if I do the Andrew search on the Irish Civil Index and select residences/marriages they all show registration districts but no counties.
I think the change to the display of counties could account for the lack of the place filter, as this function previously worked by country or county, and they have not completed the registration district search function mentioned earlier. As far as I can see the same happens with many (but not all) Births and deaths - and in these cases the county does not seem to be mentioned on the index as it was, but may be stored somewhere behind the scenes on the database but not displayed on the correctly searched records..
Hopefully the addition of the registration district function would help solve this and even enhance searches, as this would allow more focused searches.
Pity their recent upgrade to other records was such a downgrade for us - but it's difficult to complain to them about a resource like this which the provided at no cost to us.
Shane
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Thank you Shane for all your efforts with this problem!
Am I correct in thinking that when BLOODTIES mentioned additional info for marriages, he would have been referring to IGI entries, rather than the Irish BMD entries?
Kooky
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Am now trying to sort out Lamonts, Eden (Ballymoney, Antrim) using the LDS site but again getting strange results as far as 'place' option.
I have a Samuel Lamont (26 July 1874 Ballymoney dist.-19 Jan.1910 Cabra, Ballymoney) and from Will index I can confirm the date and place of death.
I then searched for 'Samuel Lamont' in civil index and get 91 results. Clicking on 'place' option I get 2 options: 4 for 'Down, Ireland' and 4 for 'Northern Ireland, United, Kingdom' - so where are the other results under? Ignoring the 'place' I clicked on 'date' and selected '1900-1910' and found the correct record.
The only reason I found the right one is because I already knew the date and it looks like the Place option might be the problem.
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It has to be related to some sort of County/Registration district look up in their system as I think some records are falling thought the system which in the earlier version established the county a record related to. Previously the applicable county, or counties, were shown beside each record and these would also appear in the options in the places filter choice list.
As an example I have index details an early Dublin marriage record I recently collected from the GRO, and it no longer appears when I search under Dublin, but I do get 9 results on all events and a blank placename search for the following registration districts :
Borrisokane
Dublin South
Bandon
Middleton
Bandon
Middleton
Rathdown
Dublin South
Yet when I select the places filter I get the choices :
South Australia (2) [ ?? ?]
Tiobraid Árann (1) [Tipperary]
Tipperary (1)
Wicklow (1)
Which only accounts for 5 of the 9 records - and even with these it is inconsistent
Rathdown is in both Dublin and Wicklow, so both choices should appear
Dublin should list with additional options for the Dublin South records
There's no mention of Co. Cork which should have (4) listings
Shane
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....Am I correct in thinking that when BLOODTIES mentioned additional info for marriages, he would have been referring to IGI entries, rather than the Irish BMD entries?
Kooky
not a term I've ever heard of in Civil or Church details, so I presume it's connected to LDS records in some way.
Shane
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Thank you! Perhaps Bloodties could elucidate?
Kooky
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sorry misunderstood your post.. didn't realize that BloodTies was a username.
I think these are the records with the additional details that BloodTies refers to :
Births/Baptism :
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584963
Deaths :
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584965
Marriages :
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584964
These are new collections on the pilot site and appear to be extracted Births, Marriages and Deaths, similar to the IGI records.
Shane
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Don't know if anybody has seen this yet but they have a new BETA site in operation. It's a bit tricky to navigate but I have found some that were missing from the pilot site.
http://fsbeta.familysearch.org/
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I've seen that version of the site, but it seems to have the same problems understanding locations in Ireland.
I think it may use the same database
Shane
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Still having some problems but my Mary Mcgrath Mooney
shows up on both the pilot site and the Beta version as
mother to 2 siblings for my grandmother that were not on
either link earlier,tis' like swings 'n'roundabouts at the moment.
Looks like it will be very useful once the problems are sorted.
By the way I put nothing except my great grandmothers name
and got the 2 results,now if only the other 6 children would turn
up,at least I now know the marriage I'm looking for is earlier
than i thought.
Anne
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I've put together and sent to FS some examples searches of cases where the place filter option does not display, and/or the list of counties displayed is incomplete or includes incorrect entries (e.g. South Australia). I think the simple original examples may have confused things a little bit, as it is usually easy to pick out the correct record for these, even without the location option in the search or the placename filter.
I've also mentioned that the counties are no longer shown on the record results in case this is may be connected.
Will update when I hear anything back.
Shane
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response received today from familysearch support re the problem with location searches on the Irish Civil BMD Index, which I think may be the key to many (if not all) the recent problems :
"We have notified the engineers that changes in the location filter have made the search less usable, they're currently working on fixing that."
Shane
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Thanks for keeping us posted Shane - good know they are working on it!
H
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Thats great Shane,I've been getting most results today except something a bit odd and I'm not sure if its just me.When I search for even the most common surname for Dublin and use between the years 1890 to 1900 most of the results are just for Balrothery.
Anne
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Shane
Thanks very much for all your efforts- much appreciated.
annclare
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yes, Shane, thanks - maith fear!
eadaoin
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no problem...
It's tantalizing knowing that the index details we are looking for are all on their database but we cant find then due to a faulty search. Given the range of different types of data, and huge number of records they hold it's not surprising that an upgrade causes a few problems. I deal with database storage as part of my work so I know some of the kinds of issues that can arise.
Hopefully providing them with bit of a bit of user feedback describing the problem(s) as best we can will help them to resolve the issue.
In the meantime I've found the new extracted IGI type records mentioned earlier to be very useful - found quite a few interesting matches and some include the civil index page reference which can help narrow down civil details, especially on marriages.
Births, 1864-1881 (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584963)
Marriages, 1845-1870 (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584964)
Deaths, 1864-1870 (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584965) (not many included)
The search screen caption state the details cover from 1619 to 1898, but all the records I've seen so far look like extracted civil records.
Shane
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In the meantime I've found the new extracted IGI type records mentioned earlier to be very useful
Births, 1864-1881 (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584963)
Marriages, 1845-1870 (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584964)
Deaths, 1864-1870 (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1584965) (not many included)
These seem to be the dates covered by the microfilms available in the Family History Centre - if so they're microfilms of the GRO certs. I must have a look - did all my family as known years back,but have added branches since then!
eadaoin
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Hi Shane
Thank you so much for all your help
I'm sure FS will sort it out soon as it is a great site
Regards
Genseacher
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found partial workarounds for some of the problems with the location filter - this is just for parts of Dublin :
1. Dublin in the location filter seems to correspond to records from the Balrothery registration district (as Anne found).
2. South Australia in the location filter - relates to South Dublin (!!)
3. Wicklow in the location filter seems to only show Rathdown records (i.e. part Dublin, part Wicklow)
I cant find a reliable method for finding Dublin North records at the moment..
Shane
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Thanks Shane,you are doing sterling work on this.
I had to laugh when I found my own birth reg' under
South Australia! and still showing me as 2 years younger :P ;D
Anne
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found partial workarounds for some of the problems with the location filter -
Thanks Shane. That is very helpful.
Biggest problem I have is when a search shows e.g. 50 results but the totals under the various filters come to a much smaller number. With only 50 results its not too much hassle to trawl through them all. But when dealing with a relatively common name it can throw up hundreds of possibles.
Dara.
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...
Biggest problem I have is when a search shows e.g. 50 results but the totals under the various filters come to a much smaller number. With only 50 results its not too much hassle to trawl through them all. But when dealing with a relatively common name it can throw up hundreds of possibles.
Dara.
I think that's the root of the problem, in that the locations are not classified correctly. If you do a search without any location (i.e. All-Ireland) you can see, for example, Dublin North records listed - but no combination of the available filters will show them, and if you re-do the same search entering county Dublin on the search screen - they dont appear. I think they may have ended up in some 'blank' location, similar to the they way the South Dublin ones are currently classified as 'South Australia'
Looking back I think there may always have been a bit of problem with certain searches - e.g. a search for for Dublin records didn't seem to always show all the districts (Dublin north/south, Rathdown & Balrothery) - but filtering an all-Ireland Search would sometimes show a better result.
fingers crossed that they will figure it out from the details we have given them...
Shane
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I see that this topic has been split. Where is the rest of it? ::)
Kooky
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Your Boshell query has been split and moved to Dublin board since it was nothing to do with this thread-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,454677.msg3161262.html#msg3161262
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Just tried searching for someone in Belfast and for nosiness clicked on one of the strange places in results-
Tuamotu, Pacific Islands = Tuam!
Notice that first part of Tuamotu is Tuam which may be something to do with this one.
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Anyone heard anything further about a resolution to the search issues on Record Search Pilot?
H
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I haven't heard anything back from them recently, and there's no sign of any improvement to the Civil Index searches that I can see...
Shane
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Have checked a few random names and found
Maine, US = Marine Register
N.I., U.K. = Newtownards
Ciarral, Ire. = Cahersiveen
Bermuda/ Hamilton, Bermuda = M'hamilton
Cook Islands or Ontario!= Ck-on-Suir
Morelos, Mexico = Ceannanus Mor
Also- searching for 'Kennedy' gets 2,983 results but searching with a first name gets more (for example 'John Kennedy' gets 3,360 results) which makes no sense.
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Have checked a few random names and found
Maine, US = Marine Register
N.I., U.K. = Newtownards
Ciarral, Ire. = Cahersiveen
Bermuda/ Hamilton, Bermuda = M'hamilton
Cook Islands or Ontario!= Ck-on-Suir
Morelos, Mexico = Ceannanus Mor
Also- searching for 'Kennedy' gets 2,983 results but searching with a first name gets more (for example 'John Kennedy' gets 3,360 results) which makes no sense.
Carrick on Suir - Cook Islands / Ontario
Manorhamilton - Bermuda
Ceannanus Mor (Kells) - Morelos, Mexico
South Dublin - South Australia
:D
It's like some bizarre multiple choice question for asking where you want to take your holidays !
It would be funny if it wasn't so annoying
Shane
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I have a feeling that in addition to the 'Location', 'Marriage/Residence' issues, there may also be one relating to loss of 'Names'. I say this because I can't get 'the other party' to a marriage (that I am confident took place) to show up in any of the Family Search Marriage Indexes for Ireland. I have taken a chance by ordering some birth certificates for two boys that I think are her children, as well as a marriage certificate for the man I think she married around 1877.
(Looks like there is a bit of a backlog again at Roscommon)
If my guess is correct, then there are quite a few names missing - at least from the marriage index. If you input Teresa McNally as your search term into Record Search Pilot you get 110 results. Refining it to Marriage/Residence reduces that number to 22 - look at the number of marriages that took place up to 1900 for Teresa McNally's and reduces to only 1, all the others take place after 1900. Seems strange, or was Teresa not a popular name around the time of her birth in about 1848?
Hopefully some of my issues might be cleared up when the 1901 census of Ireland comes on line later in June - fingers crossed. ;)
As an off-the-wall suggestion I wonder if the LDS would look at offering FreeBMD the opportunity of hosting the Irish BMD Index on part of the FreeBMD site? After all the data fields are the same for both indexes and we would then have the benefit of being able to see the the potential 'other parties to marriage' before ordering a speculative marriage certificate! The precident has already been established because FamilySearch is now collaborating with other genealogical online providers such as FindMyPast for the 1841 and 1861 census of England & wales.
I wonder if FreeBMD would be open to such an approach?
Just a thought. ;) ;) ;)
H
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Checked the Civil registration Index for Brosnan and Shanahan in Kerry. Wanted Tralee registration district and only got records for Cahirciveen reg district. None of the other registration districts are turning up in the search. I do hope it gets sorted soon as it has been a great resource up to now - saved me hours of pouring over index books.
annclare
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Hi all
Just to let you know I have emailed familysearch about the problems with irish civil reg and also how good their site is. await their reply
Genseacher
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They are already aware of the problems and are working on the matter. See Shane's earlier posts on this thread.
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I just thought I let them know how good their site is and how much it helps us in our genealogy searches.
Regards genseacher
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I'd be interested to hear of any response they give to your report of the problems..
might be good to keep them on their toes by getting other reports of the same problems
Shane
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I agree shane will let you know
Thank you again for all your help
regards
genseacher
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ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]Hi all just received a nice and prompt reply from familysearch.org
Regards Genseacher [/color]
Thank you for contacting FamilySearch concerning the current engineering work in this collection.
During May our engineers are working on this collection in order to carry out essential engineering work. We will shortly be re-organising the familysearch.org website and in order to do this engineering work in a series of versions of the Index is underway. We would be happy to replicate any searches if you wish to provide us with details of the name, dates and places of the person(s) you are having difficulty with.
Currently there is no capability to apply to the results of a name search the place filter of the registration district. Our engineers are working to reload and ensure that this feature will work in the collection.
We thank you for oyur patience whilst this work is undertaken. The collection may be down for weekday periods and features may not work during this month.
If you wish us to replicate a search please reply with your case number XXXXXXX and Record Search in the heading and we will be pleased to assist you.
We hope that you will continue to use Record Search as a research resource. Please check it often as new collections are added to it frequently. May we also tell you about the wiki found at wiki.familysearch.org? It has background information about our collections and also points to many other databases that may have content that may be of interest to you. You may also post questions about the research you are doing on our forums found at forums.familysearch.org. We would encourage you to register for both with a single account id and password. Assistance to do so is available on the sites.
Sincerely,
FamilySearch
support@familysearch.org
Did you know that Ask A Question is available while within Record Search? The Help option is present at the top right of Record Search screens. When you click Help, the Ask A Question box displays. Type your question in the box, and then click Ask. This allows you to retrieve a list of knowledge documents that may answer your question.
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thanks for the update...
I hope they get the distinction between counties and the registration districts - as their response does not mention filtering by county, which is (and was) the only option.
Shane
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I was pulling my hair out over the changes on the Pilot family search site... I thought I'd log on here to see if any of you were having similar problems. Thanks everyone for putting my mind at rest and getting in touch with them... I thought I was losing my mind over this. 'Hope they sort it out soon as it was the most useful, free resource tool. :)
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I know it is very frustrating. But lets bear with it as familysearchorg are aware of the problems and hopefully it will be sorted out soon. I think it will take awhile. I too am pulling my hair out as I cannot get records in the Dublin North City District, ie to find records and match them up
Regards Genseacher
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The Civil Registration Index has been 'pulled' from the Record Search Pilot Collection sometime in the last 12 hours. Looks like/lets hope that Family Search are working on the problem!
H
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well spotted!
I was doing some searches yesterday evening ok - so they must have done that sometime overnight (our time) ... I'm going to take that as a sign they are working on it.. fingers crossed
Shane
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Irish Civil Registration index is back up this evening!
Looks better, but I don't think is right yet - it should be showing a marriage that took place at the Pro-Cathedral in 1878. The groom is there on the index but the bride isn't - it may of course be because the bride's details were never indexed. (It happens).
To check this out, could SKS please check on the microfilm or paper indexes and see if you can find a Teresa MCNALLY marrying a Daniel SHERIDAN in Jul/Sep 1878, North Dublin, Vol 2, Page 479. Daniel is there but Teresa still isn't. ??? I know the reference is correct, the marriage cert (showing both parties) arrived from Roscommon today.
H
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looks much better... selecting Dublin in the search now includes records for the Dublin North registration district, and marriages are back as a valid event type....
Shane
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Irish Civil Registration index is back up this evening!
Looks better, but I don't think is right yet - it should be showing a marriage that took place at the Pro-Cathedral in 1878. The groom is there on the index but the bride isn't - it may of course be because the bride's details were never indexed. (It happens).
To check this out, could SKS please check on the microfilm or paper indexes and see if you can find a Teresa MCNALLY marrying a Daniel SHERIDAN in Jul/Sep 1878, North Dublin, Vol 2, Page 479. Daniel is there but Teresa still isn't. ??? I know the reference is correct, the marriage cert (showing both parties) arrived from Roscommon today.
H
Name: Teresa M'Nally
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: Marriage
Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1878
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 479
p.s. what was Daniel's father's name and occupation ? (just wondering if he's connected to my Sheridans..)
Shane
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Stone me, where did you find that?
I am still looking on the Record Search Pilot site and I notice that the number of Terea McNally's had reduced from 110 to 105. The number of marriages in the Co Dublin is 9 and there are no Teres's getting married in the 19th C!
Dan's father was Thomas who was a 'Victualler' if you PM your email adds I'll send you a copy.
Now for that drink!
H
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for Mc surnames you have to try M' (that's a single quote) and without the Mc altogether, and sometimes with Mac also...
Will pm you my details...
Shane
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Just experimenting with the Teresa McNally searches and it does seem to show up a flaw in the indexing as it only seems possible to find her details if you already know the surname and enter it as part of the search.
Searching for marriages by location, firstname and exact year does not include her..and yet some searches I've checked by brides first-name only do work out ok...
Shane
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Now that the site is fixed, it would be a good idea to start a new thread for individual look-ups.
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I don't think the site is fixed just yet - perhaps in a day or two when those of us who have been 'suffering' have been able to check previous results then we might be able to declare the problem 'fixed' ;)
H
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There are still problems with the civil registration index.
A search for Casey brought up a total of 562 entries for Ireland. For Casey in Kerry dates 1900-1909 there is 1 death 1marriage and 3 births showing.
1920-1929 1 Casey registered.
It seems there is a large part of the index still inaccessible.
annclare
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Hugo - Just the same - in your own best interests to stay on topic and have a new thread for specific enquiries.
:)
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Hugo - Just the same - in your own best interests to stay on topic and have a new thread for specific enquiries.
:)
In my opinion Hugo is right on topic. I've been following this topic since the start.
The problem with familysearch is real and only by test searches and sharing our findings we can work out when the problem has truly been fixed.
Dara.
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Yes, I can see the logic.
:)
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Any update on the situation with the civil index? Looking for a marriage in Mayo this morning and none showed up.
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They took the Irish Civil records down around the middle of May and did some work on the system - and it seems to me to be back in operation as before, as I've been able to find the test records that were previously missing (although I've none in Mayo to check).
Some of the searches were always a little inconsistent, especially those by location or county. If an initial search by name, event type, date & county does not show up what you are looking for, it is worth starting with a much broader search - e.g. just the name and maybe a date range, then using the filters at the top gradually narrow down the results by event type, location etc
Shane
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Thanks Shanew147
The broad search of just putting in a name and filtering on results page worked.
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I'm still seeing problems with the search. I'd appreciate if someone could check this out.
From http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,457927.0.html
First search for James Quinn, Death/Burial 1916, Dublin. Fill min all the boxes on the search page.
The first result is for James Quinn, b. 1832, d.1916.
Now search again for James Quinn (first name and surname only, no other details). Now use the filters Event = Death, Date = 1910=1919 and Place = Dublin.
James Quinn 1832-1916 does not show up on the list of results.
Also you will note that the 'limited' search lists 17 James Quinn deaths between 1910 and 1919. The 'full' search' when filtered only gives 9 results.
Very worrying. It seems that for some events you need to know the details before doing the search.
Dara.
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Looks like there are still problems with the site. I did the same search for James Quinn as you did, Dara. That James Quinn doesn't show up if searching by deaths 1910-1919 or births 1830-1839 under Dublin as the place.
Also notice strange places have crept in when narrowing down the search by tabs-
Louisiana, U.S. + Sligo registration district
Malta, Malta = apparently Malta registration district!
Tamil Nadu, India + St. Thomas Mount registration district
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I too have been puzzled by 'foreign' locations and maybe the following thought may (if correct) help explain the apparent 'problem' - it may not be a problem after all!
WRT the 'foreign' locations showing up on the Civil Registration search results, might this be to do with the way that foreign events of a English/Irish/Welsh subject might have been registered by a Consul notifying the GRO back home of a registerable event of such English/Irish/Welsh subject.
If you look on findmypast .........
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/OverseasStartSearchServlet?searchType=B&group=BIRTHS
particularly under Consular Births for England & Wales you will see what I mean..
In the original Record Search Pilot, if you enter the name 'John Walsh' and the location as India, no dates or events you will the get 7 results all in India. (You can apply filters on the next page if you wish). This makes me think that there is nothing wrong with the index.
I may be wrong but I think these results are the 'overseas' ones that were taken placed at the back of particular quarters/years index. If anyone is visiting Irish life and can look at an Index it might help solve a mystery.............
Any thoughts?
H
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Some of the 'foreign' locations might be from the overseas registrations but certainly a large portion of the ones I've found actually turn out to be from registration districts in Ireland. Lots of examples were given earlier in this thread, such as 'Bermuda' turned out to be Manor Hamilton registration district (Hamilton, Bermuda = Manor Hamilton).
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I'm still seeing problems with the search. I'd appreciate if someone could check this out.
From http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,457927.0.html
First search for James Quinn, Death/Burial 1916, Dublin. Fill min all the boxes on the search page.
The first result is for James Quinn, b. 1832, d.1916.
Now search again for James Quinn (first name and surname only, no other details). Now use the filters Event = Death, Date = 1910=1919 and Place = Dublin.
James Quinn 1832-1916 does not show up on the list of results.
Also you will note that the 'limited' search lists 17 James Quinn deaths between 1910 and 1919. The 'full' search' when filtered only gives 9 results.
Very worrying. It seems that for some events you need to know the details before doing the search.
Dara.
I think the problem may relate to the number of results being returned. The general James Quinn search without a date returns over 2,000 results and I think the search engine may be restricting the number returned to a certain upper limit....I did find out something about this limit before.. I'll try to find it.
As I understand it any filtering is then based on this initial result set - and if this is restricted, so are are the filter results.
I did a slightly less general search for James Quinn using the years 1914 to 1920 and filtered down on Event type, years and County and the death you mentioned is there ok... that said, the filtering is very definitely inconsistent, so it sometimes necessary to try searches using a couple of different approaches.
Shane
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Shane,
I remember that issue early on with the Pilot site but from memory (which may not be very accurate) the 'filter limit' issue only arose with general searches that gave something in the region of 5,600 results. It would be nice to know the exact buffer limit.
Aghadowey,
I haven't come across any strange place name filter options since the update was 'fixed' but I'll let you know if I find any.
Hugo,
Unfortunately I'm not familiar with either findmypast or Consular births but will keep your comments in mind.
Dara.
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I've just done some test searches to try and establish the buffer limit.
A search for James Byrne, nothing else gives 810 results. Intuitively, this feels wrong.
A search for James Byrne, Dublin gives 801 results.
A search for James Byrne, Wexford gives 740 results.
A search for James Byrne, Cork gives 125 results.
There is obviously still a problem with the search.
Dara.
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agreed..they dont make sense
I just had a look at the tests Dara ran from another angle, and get similar problems
search for James Byrne, all dates, all events type, all places : 810
James Byrne, 1890-1910, all events type, all places : 805
James Byrne, 1900-1910, all events type, all places : 801
James Byrne, 1900-1905, all events type, all places : 802
I would expect the number of results to decrease almost in proportion as the date range narrowed - but the result count stays almost the same!
I dont think haven't seen any of the exotic locations on the Irish BMD Index since the recent 'fix' - but I think they do appear on the full collection sometimes even when the placename is set to Ireland.
Shane
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The 'funny' places are still there.
Search for "William Stevenson" then narrow search by 'place' click on 'New Jersey' and there are 2 entries for Downpatrick registration district (which is in Co, Down) but the date is 1935 which is well after 1921 limit for N.I. counties.
Mary Stevenson- Cook Islands (actually Ck on Shan = Carrick on Shannon)
John Smith- Maine, US (actually Marine deaths)
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very strange.. I hadn't seen any of these places since the update.
Most of mine are from the east coast and did seem to be fixed ...e.g. 'South Australia' etc The fix must not have worked correctly for all areas.
I'm beginning to dread the big update they have planned for the summer!
probably even more unusual is the post 1921 N.I. records ... where did these come from ? maybe they have added an index of these from somewhere ?
Shane
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Yes it definitely still has problems. In the search page Mayo doesn't appear, even when you go directly to the Ireland Civil Reg. search page. It then appears when you filter on the results page.
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Mayo appears on the list for me... it's just down the list of choices a bit..
Shane
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Oops mea culpa!
I didn't spot the slide bar, thanks Shanew147 - time for new specs I think
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not quite sure what their logic is including all those other locations as choices when searching Irish Civil records though..
Shane
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I think we would all agree that there are 2 problems here:
1. The human-error issues we all find when using any search tool e.g. not using the search in the most effective way, overlooking or misunderstanding on-screen directions etc. I can live with that and pay the cost for my own errors and omissions.
2. A systematic failure in the FamilySearch tool. I find this devastating. Prior to the recent update I had 100% confidence in the site - if it doesn't show up on FamilySearch it's not in the Civil Register and vice versa.
With the 1901 Census and additional records at Irish Genealogy coming online in the next month, I'll be relying on FamilySearch even more.
Dara.
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I received a very strange email from fs support ... not sure what to think :
Dear Patron,
OK, the engineers are telling me the problem has been fixed now.
Sincerely,
Family Search Support
CLB
----------------------
(CaseID:16xxxxxx)
----------------------
I have not seen any improvement or update in the last couple of days.
Shane
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The reply I got this morning indicates that the site is still being worked on:
"Thank you for contacting FamilySearch concerning searches in the Ireland Civil registration collection.
The Ireland Civil Registration collection is subject to engineering work throughout May and our engineers may need to take the collection down and reload it as they work on a series of new versions of the search engine. We believe you refer to one of these periods of essential engineering which take place on weekdays.
We have restored a place filter for search by county and hope that this work does not disrupt your research in future.
The search engine may not be stable during the engineering work period explained above. Please let us know of any difficulties which will be considered by the team responsible for the search engine.
We would be happy to replicate your search for an individual if you are experiencing difficulty in locating a result if you can give us details of the name, type of event date and place. It is difficult for us to respond to general comments about data within the index as we need to ensure that the individual names search is working.
The essential engineering is taking place to transfer the index to a new search engine which is now available for public beta test. If you would like to view historic record collections and offer feedback please go to http://fsbeta.familysearch.org/
Please reply with your unique case number 16xxxx and Record Search in the heading and we will be pleased to assist you further. You may offer feedback using the Family Search beta site feedback system on that site.
We hope that you will continue to use Record Search as a research resource. Please check it often as new collections are added to it frequently. May we also tell you about the wiki found at wiki.familysearch.org? It has background information about our collections and also points to many other databases that may have content that may be of interest to you. You may also post questions about the research you are doing on our forums found at forums.familysearch.org. We would encourage you to register for both with a single account id and password. Assistance to do so is available on the sites.
Sincerely,
FamilySearch "
Using the Beta search on the Civil Index shows 40493 results for James Byrne but does not seem as user-friendly as it doesn't show filters.
Dara.
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Is the site sorted yet? It seems to be working okay (in the sense that I'm getting plenty of results in the counties I'd expect them to be in) but I wondered if I can rely on them as 'full' ie complete.
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Not sure about the Irish records but did a few searches for Indian records in the last few days and when I went back to re-check the same people not all the results came up.
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I'm also still seeing strange search results.
e.g. if I search for a name and leave the 'Location' box empty I get LESS results than I get if I put 'Dublin, Ireland' in the box.
I have been in contact with the site by e-mail and they are very helpful but their bottom line seems to be that the records are complete and if you're not finding what you're looking for, you're not searching right.
Personally, I consider the site has a full set of records but it is extremely difficult to search. Pity that by amalgamating the 'Old IGI' records with the 'Pilot Site Civil Register' we now have a more complete resource that is less user-friendly.
Dara.
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I haven't seen any IGI records in the collection I'm using (at http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347). Is this one no longer recommended?
When was the amalgamated collection launched? Could you let me know the URL?
Many thanks
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see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
The link you have is for the Civil BMD index, links to the extracted BMD collections are toward the end of the first post in the topic above
Shane
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If you want to search all collections simultaneously, try the Beta link I posted in Reply #110 above.
The Beta search engine has the same 'look and feel' as Ancestry.com.
Dara.
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Thanks, Dara. I'll give that one a go as well.
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Hi All, one worrying thing I've found in the last day or so is a record on the search pilot for a birth Edward O'Brien vol.2.page 687,birth year 1891.I have this cert from the record office in Dublin and the cert reads George O'Brien birth 1894 parents Patrick O'brien & Hannah McPeth(could be something similar for maiden name)address 20 Albert Place Dublin.It created a problem for me because
Edward is a very elusive person to find and also because he was called George by his wife but Edward on official documents from marriage cert onwards.I wonder how many more like his there are on the L.D.S site.
Anne
please ignore or delete.
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Taidquest, how have you put those two birth records together? They would appear to be totally different people ???
I'm still getting very random results on the Pilot Search. I get the best result by putting all the info into the initial search box, the filters seem to weed too many people out.
Must try the Beta search
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Hi Agho,yes I have looked at them side by side
and the quarter is even the same on both,I had thought maybe this can happen as births are 2 different years but to have both the Lds details
and the actual index find 2 with identical surnames 3 years apart? seems a bit of a coincidence. Anne
of course you're right Agho,blame it on my frazzled brain trying to find
my Edward.
best wishes.Anne
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I know that feeling so you're not alone ;D
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I presume you've tried the Dublin records on www.irishgenealogy.ie - more records to be added tomorrow but mainly C of I I think.
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Yes Agho,I've gone back to checking about five years worth of births on the pilot site that I don't already have certs for and trying to match them up
with baptisms on irishgenealogy.ie/ It's also handy to search the baptisms by street name on that site,I can't be certain but I think they are already
adding some records.
Anne
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It is curious, if I search for David Angland's marriage in 1911 Cork, Ireland exact match only using Angland the record is there and if I search for only David he is there. However if I leave both name fields blank, shouldn't I get all marriages? I get many but David Angland is not one of them.
David
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It is curious, if I search for David Angland's marriage in 1911 Cork, Ireland exact match only using Angland the record is there and if I search for only David he is there. However if I leave both name fields blank, shouldn't I get all marriages? I get many but David Angland is not one of them.
David
There seems to be an upper limit to the number of results shown, so very general searches may not be accurate or complete. e.g. if you search for all the Murphys or all the Patricks without restricting the year, not all will be shown.
Shane
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Thanks. I was looking to find unknown spouses by matching volume page etc. While I did find some, I noticed that known persons were not turning up when both name fields were blank.
I find it hard to believe this is an upper limit error when there is no error message on blank names - unless the programmer forgot to put one in.
I have reported this problem on the feedback form.
David
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Good luck David.
I don't believe that it's a simple "upper limit" problem and I have tried to explain that error to the people at the LDS site. Please let us know how you get on.
Dara.
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The issue is possibly down to technical limitations of their webserver/database server setup. Database queries are sometimes done with an automatic restriction on numbers to prevent crashes or memory problems on the servers, and similar issues my arise with the user interface used - Adobe flash. The first questions I always need to know when working a new system with database storage is 'how many records might be involved ?', and 'how are any search results to be handled'. It can be unsafe to allow an unrestricted search.
If this type of numbers issue arises from a search the usual practice would be to either display a warning message on the search result, or to cancel the search and request more details from the user. The National Archives Census searches uses the latter tactic, although sometimes it can be fooled.
The search algorithm also seem to be a little flawed on the site in its current version, as it can give different results depending on exactly how you carry out the search. When I was on to Familysearch about the recent placename problems they said they were planning an update to the site for later this year (I think 'late summer' was mentioned). This upgrade/fix was also due to include searches by registration district.
Shane
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Thanks Dara and Shane. What ever the reason as long as we are aware of these limitations and the data is not misleading then we can't complain, after all it is free. If I get a reply to my feedback I will post it here. If I don't get a reply I'll report the problem at the LDS library next time I'm there - they have a 'hotline' to the experts.
David
PS
I was unable to find the answer at the London LDS library, however they have most of the original returns: Births 1864-1913, 1930-1955 Marriages 1845-1870 and Deaths 1864-1870 on film.
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Sorry if this has come up before but I have just searched for a marriage record for a MARY LEDWITH from 1915 to 1935 as 1925 +/- 10 years
I got one reply from south Dublin that gives a Vol and Page number but NO YEAR
How can I find out what year it was??
She was listed as a nurse child with a relative in 1901 and was the informant on a death in 1914 so she obviously stayed with the family. Hence the interest
Thanks for any insight
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based on the 'digital folder number' match (4195895) on this list (https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Ireland,_Civil_Registration_Indexes_%28FamilySearch_Historical_Records%29) - I'd say between 1898 and 1901
You would probably have to check the index books in the GRO Research room to establish the full details..
Shane
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Thanks for this Shane - not the correct lady as she was only 7 in 1901
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some new filter options have just appeared on main familysearch website - a little tricky to use at first, but look like they might be useful ...
see the learn more (https://www.familysearch.org/node/1144) link
Shane
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Shane
Thanks for the information. It appears very complicated.
annclare
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when I got the hang of it, it's actually working quite well (other than one or two of the cannot display results/timeout messages)... a few unnecessary steps with setting the location filter - i.e. you always have to select Europe, then Ireland but after that it's ok... although you do have to think in terms of the registration districts rather than the counties.
S.
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some screenshots of a location filter in action... the search starts off with just a name and year range of 1875 to 1878. Then narrowed down to a single registration district and result...
S.
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Wow Shane
This is great when you get the knack of it
Thanks for post
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Hi I'm stuck at home so I do a bit of indexing for them.and they having outages and downtime issues you can check out whats happening at
http://www.facebook.com/familysearchindexing?sk=wall&filter=1