RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: christyb on Friday 30 April 10 16:03 BST (UK)
-
Caleb Stevens was born on 10 October 1842 at Winsford, Somerset. I attach his Birth Certificate which shows his mother was Mary Stevens and father William Cotton.
His baptism record at Winsford on 22 January 1843 states his name as Caleb Cotton Stevens and his mother Mary Stevens, spinster of Winsford (no father's name)
On his marriage record at St James Taunton on 18 November 1868 to Jane Louise Peppin, his father's name is written as William Stevens.
I cannot find him on the 1851 or 1861 census. He appears on 1871 census at Kingsbrompton (now Brompton Regis) saddler aged 28.
It is a mystery to the family where he was in 1851 and 1861, what happened to his mother Mary and who was William Cotton.
If anyone can shed any light on this I would be pleased to hear from them.
Certificate Removed
-
Just to say that between 1837 and 1875 if the mother informed a registrar of an illegitimate child's birth and also stated a father's name, the registrar could record him as the father, although he may not have actually been the father
This applied until The Registration Act of 1875 which stated:
"The putative father of an illegitimate child cannot be required as father to give information respecting the birth. The name, surname and occupation of the putative father of an illegitimate child must not be entered except at the joint request of the father and mother; in which case both the father and mother must sign the entry as informants"
Stan
-
Thanks for that Stan. It seems strange that Mary would have told the registrar a name if he was not the father, but who knows?
Maybe we will never discover the truth but it would be interesting to know.
-
Caleb Stevens was born on 10 October 1842 at Winsford, Somerset. I attach his Birth Certificate which shows his mother was Mary Stevens and father William Cotton.
His baptism record at Winsford on 22 January 1843 states his name as Caleb Cotton Stevens and his mother Mary Stevens, spinster of Winsford (no father's name)
On his marriage record at St James Taunton on 18 November 1868 to Jane Louise Peppin, his father's name is written as William Stevens.
I cannot find him on the 1851 or 1861 census. He appears on 1871 census at Kingsbrompton (now Brompton Regis) saddler aged 28.
It is a mystery to the family where he was in 1851 and 1861, what happened to his mother Mary and who was William Cotton.
If anyone can shed any light on this I would be pleased to hear from them.
Certificate Removed
Hi
Not sure if I I have a huge amount definite to add as I dont have my documents with me, but....my Stevens family come from the Winsford Dulverton area and also moved to Brompton Regis.
I will try and have a look!
-
I wonder why he uses EXTON as his birthplace in 1881 and 91?
-
Caleb Stevens was born on 10 October 1842 at Winsford, Somerset. I attach his Birth Certificate which shows his mother was Mary Stevens and father William Cotton.
His baptism record at Winsford on 22 January 1843 states his name as Caleb Cotton Stevens and his mother Mary Stevens, spinster of Winsford (no father's name)
On his marriage record at St James Taunton on 18 November 1868 to Jane Louise Peppin, his father's name is written as William Stevens.
I cannot find him on the 1851 or 1861 census. He appears on 1871 census at Kingsbrompton (now Brompton Regis) saddler aged 28.
It is a mystery to the family where he was in 1851 and 1861, what happened to his mother Mary and who was William Cotton.
If anyone can shed any light on this I would be pleased to hear from them.
Certificate Removed
Hi Are you sure the name wasnt Coomer or Comber? Would be much more Exmoor !!!
-
I wondered why he had put Exton instead of Winsford as birthplace - perhaps he just guessed!
There is a family rumour that he was brought up by a well-to-do family. but would he end up as a saddler/harness maker if that was the case?
It might explain why I cannot find him in 1851/1861 but he must have worked with a saddler to learn his trade sometime before 1871.
The birth certificate definitely states William Cotton as his father (the certificate has been removed from this site for some reason) and I am sure his name on baptism record is Caleb Cotton Stevens although the name has been transcribed as Coomer on the WS Parish Transcriptions website. I agree it would be more 'Exmoor' to be Coomer.
Surely Mary would have known the father's name, even if she was of low intellect? (not saying she was of course!)
-
Hi
There was a William Comer born 1819 in Withypool :)
Sorry to be a pain !!!!
-
obviously not having seen the certificate cant tell if it is obviously Cotton or something else !!
-
Hello,
regarding the certificate, I think you are not allowed to post the whole document. If you can just cut and paste the bit for discussion, that is allowed.
heywood
-
I attach relevant part of the birth certificate (thanks Heywood)
-
Yep! Looks like Cotton alright !!
-
Hi Deb
Continuing our chat from my thread on Ivybridge 1841 - I have no idea who William Cotton was, it's purely speculation, he could have been a member of the gentry or a stable boy!
I have just been trying to piece together any possible connections, for example if Mary Stevens was in service and met a William Cotton but have not found any William Cottons and Mary Stevens in the same area in 1841. Of course they could have met after the census was taken.
I agree that Caleb could have been known under another name when he was growing up, however he was called Stevens in 1868 when he married (incidentally his father was shown as William Stevens on the marriage certificate which complicates matters further)
The Caleb Clatworthy you mention is also on 1881 census, as is Caleb Stevens, so not the same person.
I am helping Caleb's granddaughter (now 97) to try and find who her great-grandparents were, she would love to know the truth.
Caleb's son was also told he had 'cousins' in the Howe family from Winsford and I have been sent details of a marriage in 1844 Winsford of Mary Stevens and Matthew Howe.
I don't think this mystery will be solved without evidence of Caleb in 1851 and 1861.
-
Hi Christy
I have been searching madly ;D
I have followed Mary and Matthew Howe, hoping for some clues ...unfortuantely nothing pops up!
I also followed Ida Annie Stevens (d/o of Caleb and Jane Louisa b 1869) as she was missing from the family in 1881 ..I found her as a granddaughter in the home of John and Jane Sully. At first I thought that maybe they were the one's that brought Caleb up and that Ida was visiting her "grandparents". I was even more excited when I found John Sully (with first wife Elizabeth) and son CALEB aged 8.
But then I figured out that Jane Louisa Stevens nee Peppin's mother had married John Sully, as there is a stepson by the name of Peppin living with them. So, in actual fact, Ida was the granddaughter of Jane Peppin Sully.
I hope that made sense LOL
Who were the witnesses to Caleb's marriage?
deb
Link to "Ivybridge" thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,455672.msg3174267.html#msg3174267
-
Hi again
Have you seen these:
Caleb Cotton
Dec q 1842
Tiverton, Devon
Vol 10 pg 257
Caleb Stevens
dec q 1842
Tiverton, Devon
vol 10 pg 257
-
Hi Deb
Yes I have seen the two entries for Cotton/Stevens.
I did not include this to avoid further confusion but the John and Jane Sully you found were my g-g-grandparents. Caleb's wife Jane Louisa was the daughter of Jane Peppin and her first husband John. Jane Peppin (nee Venn) married John Sully in 1854.
Caleb Sully was John Sully's son by his first wife Elizabeth Ware.
My great-grandfather Walter Sully (John's son) was also married to a Stevens (Clara) but I have not found a connection to Caleb's side of the family.
Witnesses to Caleb's marriage were John Sully (presumably my g-g-grandfather) and Emma Shepherd Dyer. It appears that Emma was the wife of accountant Frederick Dyer, they were married at Taunton in 1852. Emma and Frederick were living in Taunton in 1861.
What a tangled web this family is!
-
Hi Christy
;D
I hope we can untangle the web for Caleb's granddaughter! Does she remember any other surnames at all? Do you have any contact with the Howe family? There has to be a clue somewhere.
I was wondering if Caleb named any of his children after the people who brought him up! Unfortunately their names do not give us any clues at the moment.
I will keep on searching! I wonder if he went to Wales? ...One of the Howe children (his half sibling) landed up there!
deb
-
Hi
I don't think Caleb's granddaughter knows any other surnames, she says when she was growing up in West Somerset her parents told her that Caleb was illegitimate and brought up by a 'good' family but no more details. What a shame her parents didn't tell her everything.
I just can't understand if Caleb was brought up with another name he went back to his birthname.
It doesn't make sense.
He would have served an apprenticeship as a harness maker/saddler, but where?
And where is Tom_Faggus? He may have the answers but he's disappeared!
Just to change the subject, I see you are researching Penfolds (travellers) in Devon. I know there were/are many Romany families called Penfold, any connections with Somerset?
I really appreciate all the help you're giving me with this but I don't want to take up all your time!
-
sorry !!!
replied to your message and I am still thinking. I think slowly !
Bob penfold has always tarmaced our drive. He is definitely Somerset and supposed tobe Romany.
I will ask my dad!!
-
Hi
This is interesting ....
Matthew HOWE (husband of Mary Stevens) is a boarder with the Clatworthy family (Harness makers, Exton) in 1901!!!!!
ARRGHHHH lol
deb
-
Just thought I would mention there are two entries for Caleb Stevens on Genes Reunited trees. One has him as born in Winsford, the other as Exton. Might be worth contacting if you are not already doing so. I also notice one has the surname Howe.
-
Just saw your post about Caleb Stevens. My son in law is descended from William Stevens, the father of Mary Stevens. William had several children. James (born Nov 1812) had Robert who had Rupert who had Victor who had Colin who had Brendan.
Sometimes a woman became pregnant with a man who did not marry her and she was left pregnant and unmarried. The usual thing was to give the baby to a couple who were childless to bring up as their own. This left the woman free to marry another man without the burden of bringing up another man's child.
However William Stevens was already bringing up William Norman Stevens his daughter Jane's son. Jane died in childbirth and was buried on Dec 2 1837 and William was baptised the following day in St Mary's Winsford. This indicates that William would not have forced Mary to give up her son.
Caleb was not baptised at St Mary's Winsford nor at Exton so it is rather a mystery.
The Winsford Stevens are still around. The Cutcombe Stevens are a separate family. In the 1841 Census there is a William Stevens born in Winsford and another William Stevens born in Cutcombe. Each have a wife called Elizabeth. The Winsford William Stevens married Elizabeth Norman. They were C of E. The Cutcombe William Stevens married Elizabeth Hill. They were Methodists.
I think Tom Faggus is closely related to Brendan since the same surnames appear on his tree. I have drawn up a family tree for Colin Stevens which just lacks the maiden name of the wife of George Hayes born in Exford in 1800. Colin Stevens's first cousin Wendy (father Henry stevens) married Edward Schofield (born in Yorkshire).
Just need to get the last name filled in then I can frame it and give the tree to Colin. Mary Hayes was born in Twitchen which is in Devon so the records are not online. So a bit stuck.
1911 census is now free for a while on Ancestry.
Hope this helps.
Annis.
-
Thank you for your reply. The more I research the Stevens family the more confused I become!
Caleb was baptised at Winsford on 22 January 1843. On the West Somerset Transcriptions website his name is transcribed as Caleb Coomer Stevens however I checked the name on the register at Somerset Heritage Centre and it is definitely Caleb Cotton Stevens. There is no father shown on the baptism register but William Cotton is shown as the father on Caleb's birth certificate (and Mary Stevens stated as spinster)
Regarding Mary Hayes' maiden name, perhaps you could appeal to some kind person who is visiting the N Devon Record Office to find their marriage record.
I am in the process of moving house so family history has to take a back seat for a while, however when I am settled I hope to get back into it.
I would love to solve the mystery of Caleb's apparent absence from the 1851 and 1861 census. His grandchildren were told he was raised by another family - the question is - who? His granddaughter, now aged 100, would love to know.
-
Hello,
I've found that sometimes people are missing from the census because they were deliberately left out. This was because the head of household did not want them to appear or because they thought that they were going to be put on the list at their permanent home. Rarely they were abroad so were not resident in the UK. Nobody did anything about it then.
Similarly birth registration. If a baby died the usual thing was to replace 'it' with another baby! This meant having another baby and giving the new baby the same name as the baby who died. Another method was for the bereaved couple to accept a bastard baby that had recently been born to another woman who was unmarried and unsupported. Her reputation was restored and nobody minded this. Still happens in other countries. Sometimes the dead baby/child was replaced by a child of similar age but re-named by the new parents with the same name as the dead baby/child. Better than being chucked down a disused mine shaft or well. All normal right up until the Midwifery Act 1954 which made it illegal to assist in the birth of a baby and to keep it a secret. Not illegal to give birth and say nothing until after 42 days!
Anyway children were often farmed out to other branches of the family to be brought up. Now we know that it is important to know who your parents are because of genetic problems being caused by cousin marriage. This was common practise in rural areas even though the Church was very much against it.
Also girls were forced to get married when pregnant. If the baby's father was unwilling or already married, a widower might offer. Usually the girl was very grateful and the arrangement worked well. The new husband was registered as the father.
Have you looked into Mary's subsequent marriage to one of the Howe family? Three of William Stevens's children married Howes.
Best wishes,
Annis.
-
Hi Annis
I have considered all possibilities, such as Caleb being brought up by William Cotton's family, or a family member, or being renamed, being taken abroad. I have looked at all Calebs, and 8/9 year olds in Devon and Somerset in 1851. I don't understand why he would have been left off the census on two occasions especially on the 1861 census at age 18. As he became a saddler/harness maker he must have served an apprenticeship somewhere. It's so strange for someone to 'disappear' for 25 years, between his baptism in 1843 to his marriage in Taunton in 1868.
Caleb married Louisa Jane Peppin who was living with her mother and stepfather, John and Jane Sully, in 1861 at Williton, so they must have been in the same area in the years leading up to their marriage. They were living in the same area of Taunton when they married. On their marriage certificate Caleb's father was named as William Stevens which suggests he didn't know about William Cotton, and that he may have been brought up by his grandfather William Stevens or uncle, also William. The mystery goes on!
I have looked into Caleb's mother Mary's marriage which took place in December 1844 to Matthew Howe, their first child Margaret was born the following year.
I'm sure your head is spinning with all this information so I'll leave it for now, but if you know any more about the family or can help in any way I would be very grateful.
Best wishes.
-
Dear Christy,
Ok so do you live on Exmoor? The thing is that Exmoor is rather uncivilised and a bit behind the times. If you have a bastard baby round here and the father doesn't want you to keep the baby and doesn't stand by you nobody will speak to you if you do! My eldest grandson is the son of Andrew Stevens of Codsend, Wheddon Cross. I thought that he was ok but he turned nasty when Alex my daughter told him she was pregnant. He told her to get an abortion otherwise nobody would have anything to do with her. Well she didn't want one and Ben was born May 2008. We had to go the whole nine yards with the CSA and Andrew refuses to see his only child. He pays £5 a week because he lies about his income. The grandparents see the boy once a year on his birthday which really annoys my daughter since this is neither one thing or the other. So it is not very nice. Plus Andrew Stevens works for Sully's in Minehead! Some coincidence. As well as this my daughter married Brendan Stevens June 2011 and they had a baby Max the following May. Brendan descends from the Winsford Stevens and is therefore a distant relation of yours. His father Colin was born 1945. His father was Victor who was born (can't remember) then it was Rupert Darrell then Robert who was born in 1857 then James who was born in 1812 then William Stevens who was born in 1798! So there it is. Colin Stevens lives in Wheddon Cross and he's a sweetie. He loves the boys and sees them a lot. In view of what has happened to us I can well believe someone keeping quiet about the shame of having a bastard in the mid 1800's. My father was born a bastard in 1933 and it was just the same then. It is only recently that being illegitimate hasn't ever been anything but a terrible shame. Such a pity. This is the likely reason for not finding him in the census records. Life is different now and I hope that the boys on Exmoor got a wake up call when they discovered what happens when they get a girl in the family way and tell the CSA to F--K OFF. We got a new birth certificate with his name on and he should be ashamed of himself. Ben has a new Daddy now which he thinks is fine. "The first Dad was no good cos he ran off." Rather says it all. Minehead used to have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Somerset but now the school has resumed sex education lessons the rate has gone down.
I had a word about Caleb when Colin came for supper last night and he said that he would have a look into it.
So it is a bit frontier land here. I was surprised by the viciousness of the local girls in relation to Alex. Brendan was told by one of them that the reason they hated her so much was because they all had to do the decent thing and have an abortion! It's not fair she was allowed to keep her baby and I hate her!!!!! Well more fool you was his reply. Indeed Alex was pressed to have a termination by the doctor at Musgrove but she's Roman Catholic and does not believe in that kind of behaviour. Ben is a splendid chap (looks just like his Dad!) and we adore him.
So whilst I like Exmoor I find some of the locals rather unfriendly!
I'll let you know if I come across anything.
Regards,
Annis.
PS. Now Ben is walking around looking just like his Dad the older men shake their heads and say Hmmmmm.!!!!!!
-
Just looked on the 1871 census record and there was a Caleb Stevens at the Lambeth Church. Have you looked at this record? In the 1861 census there is a Caleb Stevens in Lewes. This man is still alive in 1901 and is distinct from Caleb Stevens born in Winsford. Maybe Caleb was in London when the census was taken and the Church wrote him down as being there on that night. It might say more about him in the actual record. One of my ancestors was away from home and it states visitor from Broadstairs in the actual record.
You could also look up harness makers ( what he was in 1901) in Somerset and see if he turns up.
The Heritage Centre has loads of old records.
Who were his godparents? Are these in his baptism record? He might have gone there. I think that he would have spent a lot of time with his grandfather William if he names him as his father on the marriage certificate. Who witnessed the wedding because he might have been living with them. Life was a lot harder then. What happened to William Cotton? Did he die before he could marry Mary? Was he married already? You have relations in America by the way because I saw a post about this man on a US site.
Regards,
Annis.
-
Oh dear but sometimes the truth hurts. Considering how Alex fared in 2008 I expect Mary had a pretty difficult time. Before the 1954 Midwifery Act babies died very often. If there appeared to be something wrong the midwife would smother the infant of just pop it under the bed where it snuffed it. Horrible but it happened. Have you read The Citadel by A.J. Cronin? There a story in it where the young and idealistic doctor realises that this has happened and he rescues the infant. He shouts for hot water and plunges the baby into the basin and then into cold water and back again. This works and the child lives. Bastards were treated very poorly. So sad since it wasn't their fault.
Have you looked at bmd roots? You can see a lot there but it isn't as complete as Ancestry.
How many children did Mary and Mathew have? There are Howes in Wheddon Cross still. Very kind people. Peter Howe acts as a Dutch uncle to both boys. Grandpa Colin is great fun and he makes no distinction between the boys. Lots of crawling on the floor and tower building.
Do you have children? So are you a cousin to Brendan? Or to Andrew? Or maybe both since you've discovered a connection to both Stevens families. I haven't found one yet.
Good luck,
Annis.
-
Hi
Firstly I'm not directly connected to the Stevens family. It's a bit complicated but Caleb Stevens' wife Louisa Jane Peppin was the daughter of Jane Peppin with her first husband John Peppin. After John died Jane married John Sully and they had 8 children including Walter, my great-grandfather. So the families are connected through Jane Sully (Peppin) nee Venn.
As for William Cotton, I have no idea who he was and what happened to him. If only Caleb had been born the previous year in 1841 we may have had some clues from the census. I have been unable to establish where Caleb's mother Mary was in 1841, Mary Stevens was a very common name at that time and of course that census did not show where they were born, only if in census county or not.
I have found three Caleb Stevens born around the same time and checked that they are on later census records, ie from 1871 when Caleb first appears at Brompton Regis.
The search goes on!
-
Hi again
You asked about Matthew & Mary How's children, they had 8:
Margaret Ann How b Exton 1845
John How b Exton 1847 Unmarried in 1881 aged 32 m Sarah Greenslade in 1885
Mary How b Exton 1852 married James Sydenham (1852) in 1874
Elizabeth Anne How b Exton 1857 possible marriage Robert Middleton orJohn Pope? 1881
George How b Exton 1858 Unmarried in 1881 aged 22
Henry How b Exton 1860
Ann How b Exton 1864
Frederick How b Exton 1868 ? Eva Ann Greenslade married Mar 1891 reg Bridgend
The 1851 census shows them at Exton Shop and from 1861 at Vinnicombe Farm, Exton.
-
Ok. I agree it is complicated. Having not one but two grandsons with a Stevens father who are not related - family relationships are tricky. What annoys me is family loyalty even when someone has behaved very badly. Just because the person is your relation doesn't mean that their behaviour can be considered exemplary! If it is wrong it is wrong. I've taken this stance with both Stevens families and they now realise that if they want to have contact with the boys they have to be nice. Some people have come round to my way of thinking, some have not. Alex is an emotional mess at the moment so we are giving her lots of support both emotional and financial. She's very lonely but her school friends are being great to her. They are all turning 30 this year and they've all invited Alex and Brendan to their birthday parties so she hasn't been left out unlike the family have done. I've been baby sitting so they've been able to go. It makes up for not having been able to make friends with Brendan's family other than his Dad who is marevelous. He even apologised on behalf of the Stevens family for Andrew's conduct and went to see his parents to try to sort it out. Such a star and Alex is very fond of him. I've got a tea towel which says Friends are the Family you choose which says it all!!!
Anyway I'll have a look at my records and see if I have any extra information. Cynthia, Andrew's mother has Greendslades in her family tree on her mother's side. Her mother was born Doreen Florence Tarr and her mother was Ellen Greenslade. There are quite a few Greenslades though.
James Stevens, Brendan's ancestor, came from Brompton Regis where he lived at Lyncombe Farm. The Buckingham's live there now but they are related since the farm passed to a son in law I think.
The reason we are researching the family tree is because my daughter has a rare kidney disease, FJHN, which is made much worse if there is any consanguinity anywhere. My husband's parents were related so this means that Alex is much more affected by the gene fault than I am. So we need to know who the boys are related to so that they don't have children with them. Apparently sixth cousins is considered all right so one has to go back a long way.
Plus we've had DNA tests to prove paternity so that in 30 years when people look at photos and the grandparents don't look all that much like their grandchildren we've got documents to prove they were the real grandparents. I'll either be dead or extremely old and I don't want the boys to have trouble. Colin was fine about it. He said that he's 68 now and is bound to be dead by then! Yes well that's life. He did the swabs with a grin. He's so much fun. Much easier than a blood test but I'm sure that he would have done that too.
Do you have children? When I had my first baby I realised why my parents did so much for me. They loved us unconditionally. I wasn't a difficult child, apparently I was very good (yuk) but it was wonderful to be loved so much.
Imagine having 8 children! 4 was enough for me.
Regards,
Annis.
-
Hi Annis
Do you remember corresponding with me in August 2013?
It was about Caleb Stevens (born 1842 in Exton or Winsford) and the connection between him and the How(e) family.
I still haven't solved the mystery of where he was between his baptism in 1843 and marriage in 1868. How can someone 'disappear' for 25 years?
I haven't done a lot of research for some time but Caleb still "niggles" at me from time to time.
I hope you & the family are well.
Best wishes
christyb