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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: newbe_nz on Thursday 29 April 10 00:54 BST (UK)

Title: How to put same sex marriage in tree - *COMPLETED*
Post by: newbe_nz on Thursday 29 April 10 00:54 BST (UK)
Hi There,

I have two people of the same sex in my tree who married after 1988 how do I put this in my family tree

I am not going to put names here as I do not want to unset the family

Both parties are now deceased to the marriage in NZ

Added  They are both male if that helps.
I use both Legacy and Gramps if that helps

Regards
Newbe
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: Suzy W on Thursday 29 April 10 01:37 BST (UK)
I have Legacy, but no details for same sex marriage.  (Only this person had a relationship with...)
You do have a problem there, as the program has only male and female lines.  What Legacy program is yours?  Mine is 7.0, and there is nothing written in my book about same sex marriages.
The only other thing to do is contact legacy and ask them if any of their updated versions include same sex marriages.
I guess not a lot of people have came across this before, and I have a feeling Legacy has something to do with the Latter Day Saints, so this certainly will be a no go for them.

Regards
Suzy W
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: newbe_nz on Thursday 29 April 10 01:40 BST (UK)
I have Legacy 7.4 and do not see anything on that either ::)

Thanks Suzy

Newbe
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Thursday 29 April 10 01:41 BST (UK)
Hi Newbe,

I've no idea, never come across it in my tree yet ......  ;D

Unless you put one down as the wife  and other husband.    Just did a quick play around with myself, put my sex down as male, and the report said I was the son of so and so.

Cheers
KHP :)
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: Suzy W on Thursday 29 April 10 01:43 BST (UK)
That is just where the problem will happen, one will have to take the female role. You know which one would of preferred that without sounding bad?

Suzy W
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Thursday 29 April 10 01:47 BST (UK)
Just enter "F" next to the name you are choosing for the wife, then when all is entered go back and change the "F" to "M".

ADDED:    Hopefully the report should read as:   Fred Blog married the son of ?


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: johnbarr on Thursday 29 April 10 01:55 BST (UK)
http://gedergenealogy.com/legacy-74-same-sex-marriage-workarounds


added
also
http://www.moss-fritch.com/legacy_7.html
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: newbe_nz on Thursday 29 April 10 01:57 BST (UK)
Thanks  for that. I see on Gramps there is also a civil union button as well

Am not used to Gramps but am still trying to work it out

Newbe

PS: will have a look at the link soon Johnbarr
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: newbe_nz on Thursday 29 April 10 02:08 BST (UK)
I am able to put the person concerned in as male but can't change it from mother to Father and Father ???



Regards
Newbe
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Thursday 29 April 10 02:12 BST (UK)
Looks like we will be in the classroom with you Newbe learning as you go :D


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: newbe_nz on Thursday 29 April 10 02:14 BST (UK)
I am so glad we are in the same classroom ;D

Looks like we have a lot to learn ;)

Newbe
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: Suzy W on Thursday 29 April 10 02:24 BST (UK)
That is great there was a link to same sex marriages. I am surprised LDS has recognized same sex marriages, thought it would be a sore point for them.  But the world is such a different place now.
I have read my 300 page legacy book twice and still confused on many things.  ie how to add documents into your work.
I guess I am a basic person, and hate to lose all my work by hitting the wrong button.

Suzy W
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: newbe_nz on Thursday 29 April 10 02:34 BST (UK)
I have to agree Suzy it is a great link :D

Thanks to Johnbarr for the link

Newbe
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: Mackiwi on Thursday 29 April 10 05:17 BST (UK)
I use Brothers Keeper, perhaps one of the partners could be added as unknown for gender :-\
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: DelBoy on Thursday 29 April 10 23:33 BST (UK)
Ive just tried this on Legacy, the only way I could find to do it was to add the new husband/wife as sex unknown, then change marriage wording to spouse, make a note on notes that this person was a female, the date and a brief explantion why it shows as it does in tree. Then if you add children it shows as spouse on tree, and I guess you should be able to change the Father wording a similar way too.
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: newbe_nz on Thursday 29 April 10 23:53 BST (UK)
Thanks for that. This was the man's third marriage so there would be no children

I am slowly tracing this tree back to find out where they all fit in.

newbe
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: Guy Etchells on Friday 30 April 10 07:22 BST (UK)
Unless I am mistaken New Zealand does not recognise same sex marriage but as is the case here in the UK they do recognise civil unions.

For that reason it would be wrong to enter such a partnership as a marriage.

It should therefore be recorded in the partners notes they were living in union otherwise you are distorting history.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: Janette on Friday 30 April 10 07:42 BST (UK)
HI Guy,

Civil Union has been recognised in law in New Zealand since the civil union act in 2004,

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: Redroger on Friday 30 April 10 17:49 BST (UK)
Ive just tried this on Legacy, the only way I could find to do it was to add the new husband/wife as sex unknown, then change marriage wording to spouse, make a note on notes that this person was a female, the date and a brief explantion why it shows as it does in tree. Then if you add children it shows as spouse on tree, and I guess you should be able to change the Father wording a similar way too.

If the LDS see this post no doubt they will try to find a way to stop this being done on their software as no doubt it is a mortal sin or equivalent in their faith. My way would be to record the 2 participants separately , and make extensive notes cross referencing them together, but I thing your scheme is much neater. Sorry I didn't think of it!
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: meles on Friday 30 April 10 18:01 BST (UK)
I am still struggling to put my own Civil Partnership on my own tree!  :)

I use Family Tree Maker, and it's tricky. At least I have been able to make my OH a male, but it is recorded as a marriage, not as a Civil Partnership. So I have simple made a note in the narrative section, and wait for FTM to keep up to date with the times.  ::)

Many gay men see the ceremony as a marriage (I am one of those that don't), which may confuse researchers in the future. But what the hay -  so many of my ancestors said they were married when they were not!

meles
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: *sparkle* on Friday 30 April 10 19:20 BST (UK)
Just to take this thread off on another tangent... I am 99.9% sure my one of my relatives who died in the 1970s when in her 90s, and her best friend were partners. Definitely no marriage, but if they were partners I would love to record it. My evidence? Nothing really, but they worked together, lived next door to each other, reportedly had tea together every night. I have a photo of the two of them and the way they are touching shows their closeness. Neither married, and they stayed close to each other all of their lives. Well if that isn't a partnership what is?!?

But the subject was so taboo then, am I doing them a dis-service by recording the relationship? Am I risking upsetting the more conservative members of my family by recording this relationship?

Has anyone else come across this?
Tx
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: *sparkle* on Friday 30 April 10 19:34 BST (UK)
I am still struggling to put my own Civil Partnership on my own tree!  :)

I use Family Tree Maker, and it's tricky. At least I have been able to make my OH a male, but it is recorded as a marriage, not as a Civil Partnership. So I have simple made a note in the narrative section, and wait for FTM to keep up to date with the times.  ::)

Many gay men see the ceremony as a marriage (I am one of those that don't), which may confuse researchers in the future. But what the hay -  so many of my ancestors said they were married when they were not!

meles

I suppose I'm definitely one of the folk who get confused with civil partnerships vs marriage. I always assumed it was the same and have on many occasions said marriage rather than civil partnership....

As for ftm, and unusual or complicated relationships (My. G.G Granny in particular had 7 children by 5 different Men) I record it as 'spouse' but then define exactly the relationship in the notes column.

I suppose for a single sex partnership I would probably designate someone as male and someone as female but define the relationship in the notes section.

Same with someone who changes gender would you use their birth name/sex, or their real sex/name?

Yes I think ftm may have to alter slightly in the future...

Tx
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: meles on Friday 30 April 10 19:43 BST (UK)
Golly, if FTM is not ready for same sex relationships, it's certainly not ready for transgender people!  ;)

But the convention is to use people's names at birth. So I personally would use their sex at birth. And then make notes.

Not sure how TG people might feel about that - some say they were trapped in the wrong body and thus might think that they were always the other gender.

meles
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Friday 30 April 10 20:28 BST (UK)
Quote
As for ftm, and unusual or complicated relationships (My. G.G Granny in particular had 7 children by 5 different Men) I record it as 'spouse' but then define exactly the relationship in the notes column.

FTM sure does remind us if we do something wrong, I have 2 girls who have illegitimate children, father unknown, yet their parents raised the grandchildren has their own children, sibilings to their mothers.   FTM kept telling me off for that.

Sparkle it is hard to prove in someways if someone is that way inclined.    We have that discussion about one of my cousins ..... do they have a pink handbag or not .... never been proved, but the mannerisms are there .....
Title: Re: How to put same sex marriage in tree
Post by: Redroger on Saturday 01 May 10 20:07 BST (UK)
So far, I have only had illegitimacy (lots! no television or bingo!) and children born to mothers in their late 40s when there was an unmarried daughter in the house to deal with, but no doubt as I continue other things like this will appear.