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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: BPE78 on Wednesday 28 April 10 21:22 BST (UK)
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Ive found my ancestor John Sutton in the 1861 English census based at "The Military Moaliding Depot, St Mary Barracks No. 2". Does anybody know what the word "Moaliding" means? I have no idea what regiment he was in. The census states that he was a Staff Sargent and his daughter was born in the East Indies. He was transferred to Ireland where his family ended up staying. From marriage certs of his sons he was also in the Comptroller Dept and also a Barrack Master.
Im living in Dublin so going to Kew to do research not really an option at the moment. Would a marriage cert be available through civil records or would Kew be my only option. Any help much appreciated. Thanks.
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The mods will probably pick you up for posting that image - copyright issues (see the copyright statement on the image itself)
Does anybody know what the word "Moaliding" means?
Nothing! :)
I'll bet you a pint you've read it wrong. Perfectly understandable if handwriting is not so good. We need to see the original image of that word (just that word, which i believe is acceptable re the copyright).
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Moaliding Depot = Invaliding Depot.
He was a Staff Sergeant Invd Depot.
Neil...you owe him/her a pint. You should have had the bet with Ancestry ;)
The numerator got it wrong as well. It is actually Invalid Depot.
Ken
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Firstly apologies for the wrong doing on the image. I jumped in with both feet.
So would Johnny be working there or recovering? If he was working there would he have been attached to a regiment?
PS mines a Heineken ta very much
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He would be helping to run the depot. The soldiers (who were usually waiting for a discharge hearing) are called 'inmates' on the census. The Invalid Depot was like the Barracks Department, ie staffed by discharged NCOs. To find his regimental career you will have to wait for Findmypast to put earlier records online. They have only released papers for men discharged 1883 to 1900.
I have found a marriage in Meerut, India on 7th January 1852, between John Sutton (aged 28) and Susan Handlin (aged 15). If you can find it in the regimental BMDs on Findmypast the index should tell you his regiment.
My guess is that his father-in-law was a soldier as well
Ken
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PS mines a Heineken ta very much
Ah well, when you're next in the East Midlands I know a good local or two.......... ;D :D
Yes, I should have included Ancestry in the bet too.
Seriously though, never trust any transcription at face value. If it looks odd in any way, you need to look at the original record.
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Ken,
Thats them! I know for sure that Susan's maiden name was Handlin. I have Herbert's (my 2xggf)birth cert. I also have an inkling that her father was a soldier too. She was born in Maurtius probably as a result of her father being stationed there. Being Irish dont know much about the British Army but if John was in India & Chatham Barracks could he be in the Royal Engineers? I think Ive found the birth of another child in 1878 Mullingar in the Irish midlands which had a major Barracks. Have to order the cert. He was deceased by 1887.
No one in my family knew that the Suttons were English because my grandmother was very young when her father died plus there is an Irish version of Sutton (if you know what I mean). The only clue was the christian names are very English. Thats to the release online of the 1911 census I was able to connect the dots.
Is Findmypast good? I think Ive written a small essay there. Thanks Ken and Neil.
Brian
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Hi Brian
You cannot assume anything about his regiment before joining the Invalid Depot. He was in Chatham as that is where the Invalid Depot was. There were lots of units in Chatham - RA, RE, Royal Marines and Depot Battalions for all the regiments in India.
You really need a birth certificate from the 1850s in order to find his first regiment.
Ken
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Ken,
Birth cert just says Staff Sargent and (what I now know) Invalid Depot. They are making me work for it :)
Brian
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Ive got John's death cert of 1881. It states that he was the Barrack Master in Mullingar Co. Westmeath and cause of death was by suicide whilst in a state of temperory insantity. Ive no idea where to go to try find any more info on him. He wouldnt have had a pension.
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Hi there, Susan sutton was living in grand canal bank in 1901 with her daughter louisa. She died in dublin in 1906 and is buried in glasnevin! Did you ever find out which regiment John Sutton was in?
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He served with the 26th and 79th Regiments of Foot, there are records for him on FindMypast, four images which show the battles in which he was involved, including the battle of Ferozeshah.
He was discharged on the 25th February 1862.
WO97 / 1615 / 167
Jebber
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Hi there Jebber, thanks for that very speedy reply, but now I think there must be 2 John Suttons! My relative died in Mullingar in 1881. He had a number of children when he was the barrick sargent in Mullingar, westmeath in Ireland between the years 1869 and 1878. However all his childrens birth certs describe him as a barrack sargent, but as yet I do not know which barracks - perhaps it is a barracks other than a millitary one . :-\
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Barrack Sergeants were employed by the Barrack Department. They were discharged regular soldiers usually also in receipt of a pension. So if everything else matches he is likely to be the man discharged in 1862.
Ken
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Many thanks Ken, that information adds some clarity :)
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Ken has already given you the logical explanation, I have no doubt that the man I found is the one you have in the 1861 census.
I suggest you get the birth certificate of the youngest child born in Gillingham, that should confirm John's Regiment.
SUTTON Arthur Ernest Handlin Medway Kent 1860 Oct-Nov-Dec
Jebber
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Hi Jebber, great I'll get that birth cert as soon as possible. thanks :)
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Thats definately the right John Sutton. Great to have so much information on him. It also explains why his son's birth cert didnt have a regiment on it as he was transfered to "staff". One more mystery ... he married Susan Handlin (born Mauritius 1837) in India in 1852 which would point to Susan's father being in the Army as well. Ive noticed that the 29th Regiment was also in Mauritius the year of Suan's birth. Could it be that John Handlin was in the 29th Reg as well?
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Hi ye all, mary ann handlin got married in Kussowlie in 1847, susan in meerut in 1852 and rebecca in 1855 in moulmein. Are these different areas in bengal or barracks?
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This whole thread was very interesting & informative - outlining the manning of the depot etc, and especially the census information. The handwriting comments were good too. A light bulb appeared I am sure, above my head having forgotten that census would include hospitalised people, and of course those awaiting discharge. My search for Samuel RAINEY included information that he was discharged "via the Invalid Depot at Chatham July 1849". Im trying to trace his parents, and when he married his wife [Mary], where she came from etc, and if she was a GLOSTER or GLOUSTER. So thanks.
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Hello,
We appear to share a common ancestor. My Grandmother was Eva Sutton b/ 20 May 1897 in Dublin. Her father was Herbert b/ Gillingham 1857 and her mother was Ellen Archbold. Her paternal grandfather was John Sutton who died in 1881.
Regards from England
Kevin