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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: caroclay on Tuesday 27 April 10 10:49 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me what Carstairs house was used for around 1944. I have just got the death cert of my grandfathers brother and he died here in 1944 from heart failure aged 26, it just seems strange for him to be there when his family where from Craignuek ( crossing my fingures it not the state hospital i have enough nuts in my tree at moment) cert also says St Charles institution if that helps.
thanks
Carolyn
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Carstairs House was a large mansion built by Henry Monteith 1821/23 it was turned into a nursing home in 1986.
Perhaps your grandfathers brother worked on the estate
Hope this helps, by the way I was born in Craigneuk
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the entry for carstairs house on scotlands places
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=181750
refers to it as St Charles Institution and in a separate entry as St Charles Private Hospital
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thanks for that i will keep trying to find out what it was used for and why he was there.
pia i live not far from craignuek and both my parents where born there.
carolyn x
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Fund this in the Scottish Archive Network
http://195.153.34.9/catalogue/person.aspx?code=NA22944&st=1&
Person Code NA22944
Corporate Name St. Charles' Certified Institution
Dates 1916-1983
Epithet Roman Catholic institution
Activity St Charles' Certified Institution for 'mentally defective Catholic children' was opened in June 1916 at Marham House, Broomhill, Partick, under the administration of a Committee of Managers appointed by the Archbishop of Glasgow. The Institution was established for the maintenance of children within the area of the Glasgow Archdiocese and was funded by the parish and school boards for the area in Ayrshire, Dumbartonshire, Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire and Stirlingshire. The Sisters of St Vincent de Paul staffed the institution and there was provision for 63 children. The Commissioner of the General Board of Control's report in December 1916 stated that 'The managers are to be congratulated on the admirable arrangements which they have made for the comfort of the children....In all respects the institution has made an excellent beginning'. In 1925 the hospital was moved to Carstairs. St Charles' institution closed in 1983.
Subordinate Partick, Glasgow
Associated records
GB1091/GD-C St. Charles' Private Hospital, Carstairs 1916-1983
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thank you for that pia i had a feeling that it would be some thing like that
thanks again
carolyn
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Hi Carolyn,
I can provide you with a photograph of the building ......... ???
I believe it is now closed down - Montheith Nursing Home.
Let me know,
Bumble :-)
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Hi Carolyn,
Some more info ...... It was known as St Charles to the villagers, but also known as a orphanage.
I will go past and see how close i can get to the building.
Bumble :-)
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Hi Carolyn
This is probably a bit late but... St Charles's was an institution for -mainly - mentally ill catholic children and was run by nuns from 1925 - 1983. Access to St Charles's was via a road through woodland - either from Carstairs Village or Carstairs Junction. When I was young - 10/11/12 sort of age - we used to go to St Charles's regular and give the lads a game of football. It was also always a great site to see the kids appear in Carstairs for the annual Gala Day first Saturday in June.
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Spme good photographs here
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/st-charles-private-hospital-lanarkshire-july-2010.t52008
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Thank you for the link to pics they are great looks like it was someplace, I still am unsure about the reason the would be there, would a child have been sent there if he had downs etc, he was my grandfathers brother and until I came across his death certificate no one ever knew about him he was not spoke of at all in family they are such a strange lot x
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Downs Syndrome is one possibility although there could be others - e.g. Autism.
As for not talking about him or the place, that I think was very much a generational thing - even today mental health issues are often considered "taboo".
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Thanks glad you think its a generation thing i thought it was just my lot that didnt talk about stuff, we found out my grandfather had sister through a neighbour then on search tree discovered another 7 siblings that had all passed and we knew nothing of as not spoke of not even by his living siblings i put it down to them being a strange bunch
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Hi Carolyn
During my time in Scotland (Newmains). Carstairs Hospital was known to be for the mentally unstable. All my life 1962 till I left in 1986 it had siren to alert surrounding area if someone escaped. As I found out in later years when they were changing how they viewed mental issues not all who had been confined there were of any danger to society. There were however a number of dangerous people housed there, but my experience, and I did have to go there in my early years working. was that there was a small majority of dangerous and a vast majority that we now would easily integrate in to normal community. I do have two brothers in Scotland that at that time without family support could have been targeted for that kind of institution. Sometimes it was an easy way out for doctor/community/family to unload burden to the state. Not always fair but easy for some.
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Carstairs Peniteniary (prison) for the criminally insane is nearby. It has a siren that can go off if someone escapes and it is tested once every month. This bulding is also known as Carstairs Hospital and is quite separate from Monteith House which was run by the nuns and later a nursing home.
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Carstairs Peniteniary (prison) for the criminally insane is nearby. It has a siren that can go off if someone escapes and it is tested once every month. This bulding is also known as Carstairs Hospital and is quite separate from Monteith House which was run as a hospital by the nuns and later became a nursing home.
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Hello Caroline,
My family moved there about 1946 and my father worked as the gardener. He was really a tailor by trade and used to make the boys' trousers in the winter. There was a mixture of children there, some with mental health problems, some disabled, downs syndrome, some orphans and one blind lady. There was one lad who had shell shock from the Clyde bank bombings. In addition to that
there were a few children who were sent there from the courts in Glasgow. When they were about 15 some of the lads worked on the farm. Others who could went back to their families.
The walled garden provided all the vegetables for the big house and the butcher came once a week
and killed an animal or two for the meat. Monteith House ( St. Charles Institution) is not to be
confused with the penitentiary which was a few miles away. Hope this helps. My family name was
Horsfield. It was a wonderful place to be brought up but very cold in the winter and a long way from
school at St. Mary's Lanark.
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Hi Caroline, my family name is Gilmour, born 1944, and lived at a house on the farm of St Charles Institution.
My father worked on this farm with Peter Cameron under direction of Father Mc Kaysic( spelling dubious).
On many occasions I played on the front lawn with the inmates of st Charles, they were a mixture of unfortunate, homeless, school dodgers, young petty thieves, downes syndrome children, they were NOT mentally retarded,
The inmates worked on the farm and were paid by my father, Richard Gilmour, three cigarettes or one bar of toffee a day, all of which was kept in our house.
Yes butcher came every Sunday to kill three sheep at farm slaughter house, this along with churns of milk went to institution, skimmed milk Returned for the pigs. And butter for institution.
I remember the name Mr Horsefield, there was a very large walled vege garden to back of house.
As for siren, there wasn't one at St Charles that was the penitentiary.
People did run away from the institution, my father was the person who would go looking for them, no police involved in my recollection, the penalty for running away was to have your head shaved.
they were very unfortunate kids, due to circumstances outwith their control, we had great fun times together, I can tell you much much more, Bill.
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I have just read the e.mail from W. Gilmour who wrote about Carstairs House. I was Anne Horsfield and I remember playing rounders in the field with your family.
Fr. McIsaac was the priest who was manager of the farm, later the job was given to Mr. Ormiston. It was very interesting to read your e.mail. I used to play with your sister May
and I remember you had a wonderful working train set which was kept in your parents bedroom.
I remember going into the barns and playing with kittens and also feeding the lambs that had lost their mothers.
You had a car, which in the 1950A was most unusual. Your mother was a very pretty and fashionable lady.
I’d love to hear some more. I live near Plymouth now.
Keep up the correspondence. Anne[/i]
Posted on behalf of A.Williams who sent the message to me in error
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Hi my uncle jimmy anderson was in st Charles he was put there for stealing then him and another boy James mcgoldrick ran away from the home in winter wearing shorts my uncle ended up freezing to death and James lost his legs from frostbite my father later ended up in there a few years later and the stories he told me was terrible about the place I have been trying to find out more info on the place for years
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Hi Bill,
I am responding to you post of a couple of years ago. I have recently found out that a family member lived at St Charles hospital from 1948 until 1972 when she died. I was curious as to what information / memories you have, and where I may be able to get more information about her from?
Kind regards
Sharon
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Hi Sharon,
Welcome to RootsChat :) Bill has been notified of your message by email notification, he has been online in the last 6 months. If you wish to reply to this topic Bill you need to press the reply button at the end of this thread ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Sharon, my father run the farm with the help of Peter Cameron, more so after Father McKaysic retired to Rothesay.
My father helped to bring back runaways, the punishment for running away was to have their head shaved,,, I was very young and would not have been made aware of the horror you are talking about,
The institution was run by nuns, and a security guard called “Gubby”.
I played there with the inmates on many occasions, it may not have been home from home, but I never witnessed any maltreatment, but then I lived on the farm with my family.
I once went with my father ,looking for run always, it wasn’t difficult to find them, as many farms surrounded the area, they were in a hay loft, keeping warm as there was snow on the ground.
My memories before I left at 13 years old, were all happy ones of life on a farm.
Sorry can’t be more helpful, if I can in anyway inform you more I will ,kind regards Bill.
Good luck.
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Thank you for your reply Bill. I know very little about this place - and trying to find where documents may be filed is proving interesting!! I know some facts - including cause of death in 1972, but I would like to know how she lived - so your information is valuable in trying to put a picture together - any suggestions / thoughts would be welcomed,
Thank you again
Sharon
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Hi Liz, as you all may have gathered, I mixed up the names, I was replying to you Liz and put Sharon,s name in.
I left carstairs in 57, and really don’t know anything about the seventies or later, good luck to you all in your searches xxxx