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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Renaud on Sunday 25 April 10 12:28 BST (UK)
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I am researching one Abraham Danvers born 1825 at Diseworth, Leicestershire. In 1847 or 1848 he enlisted in the army and became a career soldier attaining the rank of sergeant. I have found record of him on the 1851 Stoke Damerel census and 1861 Chatham census but no indication of what regiment he was in.
I am looking for evidence that he served in the 1853 to 1856 Crimean War. In 1867 he was on recruiting service in Shepshed market place and died there of a sudden seizure.
Ideas of how I could locate his regiment would be very much appreciated.
Renaud. :) ;)
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found abraham on 1841 census mistranscribed as danon with parents and siblings there is also a jane wardle also born diseworth leics she is 78 so could be abrahams grandmother
William Danon 42
Elizabeth Danon 38
Thomas Danon 18
Abraham Danon 15
Jane Danon 11
Elizah Danon 9
Amos Danon 7
Sarah Danon 2
Jane Wardle 78
kerry
kerry
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Yes Kerry I am aware of the 1841 glitch, which is some way removed from the correct spelling. Makes one wonder if the census official had taken a break in the local and was slightly merry when he knocked on the Danvers door.
Many thanks and regards, Renaud ;D ;D
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If he's in barracks with other soldiers on those 1851 & 1861 censuses, scroll back till you find the names of the officers and make a note of them.
Officers are easier to look up to find the regiment.
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Yes Kerry I am aware of the 1841 glitch, which is some way removed from the correct spelling. Makes one wonder if the census official had taken a break in the local and was slightly merry when he knocked on the Danvers door.
Looking at the original, with the benefit of the background knowledge: he seems to have written 'Danves'. Give the poor man a break, he had to copy the information from the household forms, many of which would have been poorly written or unclear.
It does look a little like Danon, can't really blame the transcriber too much.
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Hi Renaud
You seem to have a lot of information about his army career, so I am surprised you have nothing telling you his regiment. The officers in the 1851 census all belong to the 4th (King's Own) Regiment of Foot. I have a medal roll for the Crimea but where he would be is illigible.
It gives his regiment on the 1861 census - 1/4th Regt - ie the 1st Battalion of the 4th Foot. They created a 2nd Battalion in 1857. And he is a Sergeant.
Ken
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Thank's everyone for the assistance, I will absorb the informative advice and investigate further.
It would appear (in accordance with Ken's advice) that Abraham enlisted in the 1st Battalion of the 4th (The Kings Own) Regiment of Foot first raised in 1751 to the very year of his death in 1867.
I am now searching for a picture and details of the type of uniform he would have worn, cap badge, insignia, etc.
Really appreciated, Renaud. :D :D :D
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Hi Renaud,
I was wondering if you had uncovered any further information on Abraham Danvers in the intervening five years since this post? He is the 3xgt grandfather of a friend of mine whose tree I'm trying to adumbrate!
Many thanks, David. [insert: Smiley Face]
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Regarding his uniform you should Google 'quilted shako'. This helmet was worn throughout the 1860s. The rifle in use started in the Crimean War (1855) with the Enfield muzzle loaded rifle (1853 pattern). And would have been the Snider Enfield breech loader by the time he died.
Thousands of muzzle loaders were converted to breech loaders until sufficient Sniders were available
Ken
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Thanks for that, Ken. Surprised at quite how French the Shako looks.
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It was adopted after the Crimean War when we were allies, and so we had plenty of time to see it in action. Both sides in the US Civil War wore similar shapes but with less stiffening. So a world wide fashion.
It replaced the Albert shako which was not liked. The allies spent eleven months in trenches before Sebastopol, so most men wore a low trench cap instead. Making them less of a target than the Albert.
Ken
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Good evening,
You could check your local library to see if they have this book. Also available to purchase online.
John915
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Tried to find some images:-
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyuniforms/britishinfantry/4thkingsown1854.htm.
http://www.kingsownmuseum.com/photogallery/ko0277-37a.jpg.
First one is Crimean War, second in Malta 1865/66. The men are wearing forage caps instead of French style kepis. 2nd Battalion though, not 1st.
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Great photograph. The man in the middle is the QMS with four stripes on his cuff, with Sergeants either side. The man seated left is a Drummer with one good conduct badge on his left cuff and his short drummers sword. The one on the right is a Private also with one GC badge. Surprised they got seats while two Sergeants stood.
Ken
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Hi again all,
thought I might be able to consult your advice again.
It relates to the OP - and Abraham Danvers (1825-67). He had a son of the same name (b. 1854 in Sheepshed, Leicestershire). His birth is in the GRO Regimental BI; This details his father's regiment as the 17th, which I understand is the Royal Leicestershire Regiment, which is confusing because (as mentioned above in the thread Abraham Snr. is in the 4th Foot in 1851 and and again on the 1861 census - would one switch regiments like that or is there an alternative explanation?
Also wanted your opinion on Abraham Danvers Jnr's service. Any details you can add or signpost me to would be greatly appreciated:
In 1871 he is enlisted as a 16 yr old drummer in Aldershot; census states this is 'The Kings Own Royal Regiment 1st Battalion and Depot 38 Regiment' - presumably he's in the former. I cannot locate him on the 1881 census.
This link states that the '4th were sent to Gibraltar in 1874 then on to the West Indies. They returned home in 1881...':
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/britishinfantry/4thkingsown.htm
Does this seems a reasonable explanation for his absence from 1881 census, do you think?
In 1884 he is discharged after 13 years service at his own request, the 4th having moved up to Lancaster around 1881 as I understand. The discharge transcript says that he was in the Infantry Brigade Depot 4th. What does 'Depot' indicate here?
Abraham then re-enlists as a reservist/militia man in the 3rd Battn North Lancs Regiment 1888, 1892, and 1896, before his death is registered in Loughborough Q4 1898. I assume he was visiting family when he died as he had been in Preston since 1884 and had a child born after his death in Preston Q3 1899.
Many thanks in advance! :)
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Just seen on Wikipedia that the 4th also served in the 1879 Anglo-Zulu War, so perhaps he may have been stationed out there, or on his way back to miss the 1881 census? ???
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AD junior enlisted in the Militia in 1888 in the Loyal North Lancs in Preston, where he was living. For previous service he has Royal Lancaster Regiment (ie 4th foot) discharged at own request after 12/13 years. He re-joined the Militia after leaving them four days earlier.
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo96%2f0824%2f275%2f001&parentid=gbm%2fwo96%2f824%2f1445188&highlights=%22%22
It looks as if he served one ten year service after the age of 18 His service under 18 did not count. You needed two periods of ten years service to earn a pension. Which may explain why I cannot find his service record on Findmypast.
The Depot system was quite complicated. There were three variations in this period. Each designed to save money by combining Depots and reducing the number of Colonels. The 4th - like the 2nd to 25th Foot - acquired a second battalion in 1857. This followed the Crimea and Indian Mutiny. The 1st Bn were in Gibraltar then Barbados. It was the 2nd Bn who were in South Africa. I cannot find him in the Zulu War medal war so it looks as if he was I the 1st Bn. You will have to check the muster books in the National Archives. They are not online. As the 4th Foot had two battalions they were put in the same Brigade Depot. But I have that it was the 11th in Lancaster, not the 28th. Men might have their BDE number followed by his 4th Foot number
Ken
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Thanks, Ken. I missed the detail about him rejoining the militia after only 4 days. So looks like he was a reservist continuously from discharge until his death. Looks like I'll have to make a trip to Kew at some point.
What do you make of AD Snr. showing as in the 4th Reg of Foot in 1851 and 1861 census, but in Royal Leicestershire in 1855 on his son's Regimental Birth Index? Was it commonplace to switch regiments thus?
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Have you actually bought the certificate? Or are you going just from the index? I once bought a certificate were the index said that the regiment were the 17th Lancers, and it turned out to be 17th Foot (Leicesters). Can you post an image of his occupation if you have the certificate.
The Leicesters did not become Royal until 1946. Could it say Royal Lancs and not Royal Leics?
Ken