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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 21 April 10 20:38 BST (UK)
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If anyone is venturing near the Liverpool records office and finds themselves with a spare moment I could do with some help.
I am looking for a birth for Thomas Bourne who may, may not, have been born in Liverpool around 1808 - 11. Census gives conflicting info on this 1841 says staffordshire while 1851 says Liverpool. Also one Elizabeth Bourne also born Liverpool in 1825. Both were children of Moses Bourne who may or may not have been married in Liverpool.
I am happy to reciprocate with Staffordshire look ups.
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Hi,
Unless you know the church where they were baptised it would be a mamouth task for anyone to look up. However, I thought you may be interested in looking at www.lan-opc.org.uk . There are two children baptised in Aigburth that could belong to the same family.
Baptism: 6 Apr 1817 St Michael in the Hamlet, Aigburth, Lancashire, England
Jemima Bourne - Daughter of Moses Bourne & Elizabeth (formerly Licet)
Born: 22 Mar 1817
Abode: Herculaneum Pottery
Occupation: Potter
Baptism: 29 Jun 1823 St Michael in the Hamlet, Aigburth, Lancashire, England
Samson Bourne - Child of Moses Bourne & Elizabeth (formerly Lycet)
Born: 26 Oct 1822
Abode: Toxteth Park
Occupation: Potter
Regards,
Mo
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Thanks for that. I guess it would be a mammoth task if you didn't have a church to look at. However the info you posted is interesting as Moses was a potter and his daughter Elizabeth could have been named after his wife. I will look into that thanks very much. :)
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Brilliant brilliant brilliant!!!! That info was SO helpful. I noticed on Jemima's record that the family were resident in the Herculanium Pottery at Toxteth. There is a wiki entry for this saying it was from 1793 - 1841 the manager Ralph Mansfield of Burslem engaged about 40 Staffordshire men and moved them there by boat. This would fit with the birth of Moses in Burslem 1786. He may have gone there as a child or travelled later. If anyone knows where i might find a record for the pottery then I may be able to confirm this.
Much thanks once again. Also St Michael's church wasn't built till after 1815 so Thomas may have been baptised elsewhere. Always assuming it is the same family but circumstantial evidence is mounting. :) :)
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And remember please, I found you a link to a Sampson/Samson (circa 1791) on a request you made on another site. He was born to Thomas and Mary, as was a Moses Bourne (circa 1786)
It helps, if posting on more than one site, to keep each site's threads aware of what has been found, this saves helpers time - time which could be spent helping someone else.
Please keep this thread up to date.
For anyone trying to help this info was also found : Eliza Bourne, parents' Samson and Jane, christened in Liverpool St Peter's, 10/2/1831 (extracted record). All their other children appear to have been christened in Burslem, Staff's, these are however, submitted records, but do have dates so are worth following up.
By the way, I'm finished with this thread. I feel cross when a poster doesn't keep each site up to date with what's been found. I see nothing wrong with posting on more then one site, but to not keep each up to date is plainly wrong, it deprives others' of helpers' time.
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Zen.
I found the following on Familysearch.org:
Ann BURN
Birth: 19 FEB 1812
Christening: 11 MAR 1812, Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire
Parents: Moses BURN & Elizabeth LYCETT
Isaac BOURNE
Christening: 11 SEP 1814, Saint John, Burslem, Stafford
Parents: Moses BOURNE & Elizabeth
Not sure about the second one (Isaac), but the first one (Ann BURN) looks right (apart from the miss-spelt surname).
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Sorry to upset you Libby. I had forgotten about Sampson and others. I will try to keep up to date in future.
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Info so far thanks to all the very helpful people on this and other sites.
The story so far.....
Moses in 1841 with Elizabeth daughter b. 1825 at Sneyd Green near Burslem, there is an IGI birth record for Moses matching this date. Elizabeth marries Samuel Sawyer in 1843 father Moses, witness Thomas Bourne. I have records linking Smith Bourne Thomas's son to Aunt and Uncle Elizabeth and Samuel. So far no direct link for Thomas to Moses.
There are records for a Jemima Bourne born April 6th 1817 at St Micheal in the Hamlet Aigburth to Moses Bourne and Elizabeth (Licet) abode Herculaneum Pottery. There is a wiki entry for this saying it was from 1793 - 1841 the manager Ralph Mansfield of Burslem engaged about 40 Staffordshire men and moved them there by boat. This would fit with the birth of Moses in Burslem 1786. He may have gone there as a child or travelled later.
We have an Isaac Bourne 11 sept 1814 b. Burslem to Moses and Elizabeth
also an Ann Burn 11 Mar 1812 to Moses Burn and Elizabeth Lycett in St Peter's Liverpool
also Eliza Bourne, parents' Samson and Jane, christened in Liverpool St Peter's, 10/2/1831 (extracted record). All their other children appear to have been christened in Burslem, Staff's.
We also have extracted records Moses born to Thomas and Mary 1786, with possible siblings Sampson 31 July 1791 to Thomas and Mary and Mary 26 Dec 1784 Thomas and Mary.
Think that's the lot.
Thanks for your help people. I'll try and keep you up to speed on any developments
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Thanks for the apology, Zen. I was annoyed initially, but may be you didn't realise how much time can potentially be wasted. A lesson learned!
Good luck with your search for Thomas, and I will continue to search for him.
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I also wanted to thank you and say that your link to Sampson has opened up quite a huge potential vista going back to the 1600's and may be further, if everything checks out. I have been caught out before with Stantons in accepting lots of IGI dates at face value. I get all excited by the thrill of discovery then have to back track. Mind you it is fun :)
On the Bournes there is still that marriage of Thomas and Fanny in St John's Old Haymarket that bugs me. His occupation is given as blacksmith rather than painter as it is in the 1841 census. But there was a Fanny (Frances) Smith christened in Burslem father James Smith according to IGI ( I would have to look it up again as I didn't put much weight on it at the time). Thomas has a son often refered to as Smith Bourne and indeed there is a birth record at Staffs reg office where he is listed as Smith Bourne. However I have a pretty conclusive death record where he is named James Smith Bourne, also his son is James Smith Bourne. Which is why I am still pondering a link between Thomas and Frances Smith.
I have sent off for a book on the Herculaneum Pottery, which seems to have been a self contained unit based somewhat on Wedgewoods Etruria pottery. I also believe that it had its own Methodist chapel as apparently there were no other churches nearby so it may potentially hold records that might interest me.
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I have just seen this thread and I am very interested whether your Thomas connects to my Joseph.
My wife is descended from Joseph Bourne born1854 in Tunstall
Joseph's father Thomas Bourne married three times, Susannah Rowley Ford in 1849; Margery Lightfoot in 1858 and Maria Dicken in 1875.
The 1851 census suggests Thomas was born in Manchester in 1828. This record fits with the first marriage and the birth of their first son Thomas born 1850 (this birth is transcribed incorrectly on ancestry as 1860). This record links Tunstall and Manchester
Thomas marries 3 times and his name changes from Bourne to Burne to Burn. His place of birth changes from Manchester (1851) to Tunstall (1861 and 1871) to Uldom Lancashire (1881) His father’s name changes from Thomas (first and second marriages) to John (third marriage). He was a slip maker in a pottery in 1851 and in his marriage records gives his father’s occupation as a potter.
I am looking for a pottery industry in/near Manchester and transfer of labour to and from Tunstall / Burslem I can investigate? This thread mentions Ralph Mansfield for which I believe the Mansfield family is a small DNA match via Sarah Bourne. I need to check
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you