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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex Lookup Requests => Essex => England => Essex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: dellfrog on Tuesday 20 April 10 21:37 BST (UK)

Title: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Tuesday 20 April 10 21:37 BST (UK)
Hi
I am trying to trace the birth and parents of George Henry Mott died 1909 born c 1839
married Mary Catherine ..........(c1837-1913) from Killarney in Ireland in 1859 at Islington.
Any information gladly received. They had at least five children William Henry 1866 , Mary  1861, Agnes Gertrude c1870, Sarah Elizabeth 1864, Charles
Frederick 1873-1944.
William Henry Mott was in London Fire brigade and died on duty. no details as yet.
I gather Charles Frederick Mott  ( my grandfather) was the first to take a woman to a boxing match.
I also need details of Charles Frederick Mott remarriage after his wife Edith Rhoda Lucas died in 1921. I believe he had a daughter from his second marriage.   This is my first posting so all advice and help welcomed. Anyone who wants my Mott details so far i will send as requested. I have some early Mott photos.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Tuesday 20 April 10 23:20 BST (UK)
Quote
I also need details of Charles Frederick Mott remarriage after his wife Edith Rhoda Lucas died in 1921

Do you have any idea in which area this may have taken place please  ???
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Wednesday 21 April 10 07:03 BST (UK)
HI
In 1901 George Henry Mott lived at 64 Elm Rd West ham
     1891                                        at ?Manby Road Wanstead
      1881                                       at 7 Tenby Road
      I think they were all in the west ham area.
many thanks for your interest
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Wednesday 21 April 10 07:42 BST (UK)
Charles frederick mott was buried in the City of London Cemetery wherever vthat may be. I think thats Stratford West Ham Ilford area.
thanks derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 21 April 10 15:43 BST (UK)
I think I have found the family inc Charles and Edith Rhoda living West Ham in 1911 but I dont have any credits to access the household, so I assume that his second marriage would have occurred in the same area  :-\
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Wednesday 21 April 10 15:48 BST (UK)
Hi
Charles Frederick fell out with his in laws after Edith Rhoda died and I think he was in the Stratford area. He got a bit of a reputation I think as a ladies man.
Sorry but thats all I know - I appreciate your trying to help
kind regarsd
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 21 April 10 15:58 BST (UK)
Here are a couple of possible marriages I have found of a Charles F Mott

1. Sept q. 1929 West Ham 4a - 906 to Emily C Marshall

2. Sept q. 1930 West Ham 4a - 378 to Elsie M Sharpington.

Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Wednesday 21 April 10 16:21 BST (UK)
Hi Patrish
Thats brilliant- thanks again
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: JacobeaM on Thursday 22 April 10 01:34 BST (UK)
Have you got Mary Catherine's maiden name? If you haven't, the marriage record on FreeBMD shows she was Mary Catherine Josephine Quill DeLongford, married to George Mott in the December Qtr, 1859 in Islington.   
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Thursday 22 April 10 07:37 BST (UK)
HI JacobeaM
Many thanks for the details of the marriage. I thought that this was the marriage but many years ago when I looked I seem to remember getting the surname. I lost the papers but now that you have shown the name I remember quite clearly that I saw Quill or what looked like Quill. How did you find the De Longford bit.
Mary was born in Killarney Ireland c 1837 so now maybe I will be able to find her .
I sincerely thank you for your help- really is appreciated. I just cannot believ how helpful people are. In just a few days I have been helped to find my step grandmothers descendants and now perhaps my great grandmother line.
I saw the families you are interested in. I was married to a Godfrey but they were all from Battersea. But if there  is anything I can do for you just say.
Thanks
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Thursday 22 April 10 08:51 BST (UK)
Apologies Derek, I should have posted that. I dont know why I dident  :-[

I looked at the original marriage index on Ancestry and it does give her  full name as JacobeaM says.  :)

You need to post on the Irish Board for her, you will have more luck there, although I do know Irish records are quite difficult as a lot of them have not survived but give it a go, you never know.  ;)
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Thursday 22 April 10 09:38 BST (UK)
HI
Thanks yet again
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Thursday 22 April 10 10:21 BST (UK)
Quote
I am trying to trace the birth and parents of George Henry Mott died 1909 born c 1839


George Henry Mott b. Sept q. 1840 St Georges, Hanover Sq.London, Middx
1a - 15

Do you think this could be him  ???  if so the cert would give his fathers name/occupation if not deceased  and you could cross reference it with his marriage
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Thursday 22 April 10 11:13 BST (UK)
Hi
Your e-mail cam just as I was working on that brith. I feel pretty confident that this is the George Henry I am looking for. The 1861 census for George Henry living with his wife Mary and daughter Mary says he was born at Middlesex Knightsbridge.
The 1841 census gives a George Mott address as St George Place Knightsbridge Terrace. The other Motts there were William Mott age 30 and looks like Emma Mott age 23. It then list 5 women aged 16--23 with varying names and Joseph Russell age 18 and then George Mott age 1.
Thanks
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Thursday 22 April 10 13:40 BST (UK)
  15.10.1859 St Stephens Church Islington.

George Henry Mott full age Batchelor a Warehouseman 4 Portland Place... father William Mott a Warehouseman.

Mary Catherine Josephine Quill De Longford full age Spinster 3 Barnsbury Place... father Morris, Henry, Hugh  De Longford.  a Clerk

As she is full age she must be at least 21 or over, so that helps to narrow it down a bit .

Where her fathers name appears Morris, Henry, Hugh Quill  has been entered but then crossed out, so perhaps Quill was her mothers maiden surname as it is part of Mary Catherine J's  name.  :-\

The witnesses look like  Emmeline Lavinia or Davinia Mott and Sarah Pond Burt or Bull, :-\   not sure of this surname.
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Thursday 22 April 10 14:41 BST (UK)
I am puzzled   ???

I cannot find George Henry with a father William on the 1841 nor  the 1851 census..... but I have found this in 1841

George Mott down as 3 mths (which does not quite fit),  in the St. George The Martyr, Workhouse , above him is a Bridget Mott aged 30 b Ireland


Now it may be that if this is  him, he could have given a false fathers name on his marriage certificate, it was very common practice to do this.

Or maybe his father Wm died . :-\
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Thursday 22 April 10 14:59 BST (UK)
Hi
I found George Henry Mott 1840 July Aug Sept regiseterd at St Geoges Hanover Square. I also found 1841 census at 23 St  Georges Terrace George Mott age 1.
At this house were William Mott and what looks like Emma Mott.
I then looked at the 1851 census and found George Mott aged 11 as a pupil at Baker Street. Beneath his name was Charles Frederick Mott aged 9. I then looked up Charles Frederick Mott born 1842 and found he too was registered at St Georges Hanover Square so that I presume is a brother.
Bearing in mind that the census of 1861 gave George Henrys birth at Knightsbridge that all seems to tie up.
The marriage certificate giving warehouseman also matches the warehouseman employment status on the 1861 census for George Henry. The father William Mott that you found on the marriage certificate also ties up with the William in the 1841 census at St Georges Terrace.
With regard to the Quill De Longford bit- that all seems to tie in with the problem I was having where I had only seen the name Mary Quill. That was why I had not been able to confirm the marriage in 1859 as it was under De Longford for her record.
How do you get access to the actual marriage certificate so quickly. I am a member on GenesReunited and all I can see is the registry books. I am amazed at how you get such great information so quickly and yet again my thanks.
kind regards
derek


 
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Thursday 22 April 10 16:15 BST (UK)
Quote
also found 1841 census at 23 St  Georges Terrace George Mott age 1.

Well you did better than me then, :) I couldent seem to find that entry on Ancestry when I searched.  :( so at least we know that that wasent him, which is good  :)

Can you please post the reference for the 1841 and  Emmas or Williams age as I still cant find them after a second look.

Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Thursday 22 April 10 17:04 BST (UK)
Hi  I found Emma and William Mott here
http://www.GenesReunited.com/records/srzoomer.aspx?ff_type=18&key=196268
The public Office reference is HO 107/732/1 - it gives Williams age as   30 and Emma as 23.
I think William married Emma in 1837 July Aug Sept St Georges Hanover Square vol .1 entry 41 but have no details as yet.
That would tie up with the 1841 census
Kind regards
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Thursday 22 April 10 17:15 BST (UK)
Thanks Derek,

Found them now, :) they are transcribed as Mull not Mott   ::) thats why I couldent find them

I will see if I can find there marriage cert.
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Thursday 22 April 10 17:33 BST (UK)
I cant see Wm and Emmas marriage nor on the free BMD either  :(

Also looked for George Henrys baptism but couldent find that.
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Friday 23 April 10 14:31 BST (UK)
Hi All. You have amazed me with all the help given however I seem to have come unstuck.
Charles Frederick Mott 1873 -1944 born Forest Gate birth  registered West Ham 4a 68 was married to Edith Rhoda Lucas( 1874-1920)  in 1900 West ham 4a 579. ( The above definitely correct)

The family was still I believe in the West Ham Stratford area and my aunts told me that Charles Frederick remarried and had a daughter.
So far the only Charles Frederick Mott marriage that has come to light is to Elsie Sharpington in 1930 West Ham 4a 378.

However descendants of that line tell me that I must have the wrong Charles Frederick Mott  as they think he died 1970s not 1944 and they do not believe he was born 1873 as they do not think he was that old when married.
So I guess I need to know the age or parents given on the marriage cert of the 1930 wedding. How can i get this ?

Advice on where to look up marriages births and deaths  prior to 1837 for St Georges Hanover Square area would be appreciated. I aslo need to get details of the following marriage
William Mott probably born 1811 to Emma ? probably born 1818 . Think marriage was St Georges Hanover Sq 1837 3rd quarter vol 1 entry 41.
many thanks to all
kind regards
dellfrog
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Friday 23 April 10 16:43 BST (UK)
Quote
However descendants of that line tell me that I must have the wrong Charles Frederick Mott  as they think he died 1970s not 1944 and they do not believe he was born 1873 as they do not think he was that old when married.

Never take family hearsay as gospel, just take note and keep an open mind until you can prove it .

Quote
So I guess I need to know the age or parents given on the marriage cert of the 1930 wedding. How can i get this ?

There is no other way but to send for the certificate I.m afraid but I will see if I can find a birth record for her.

Quote
Advice on where to look up marriages births and deaths  prior to 1837 for St Georges Hanover Square area would be appreciated.

There is only the IGI or parish records, St.Georges, Hanover Sq I think is in Westminster, so most likely the Westminsters Archives would hold the records.

Quote
Think marriage was St Georges Hanover Sq 1837 3rd quarter vol 1 entry 41.

Will see if I can find this one for you.



Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Friday 23 April 10 17:24 BST (UK)


As to Eslie M Sharpington, as it was a second marriage she may also have been a widow.
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Friday 23 April 10 18:11 BST (UK)
HI
Elsie Sharpington was born 1905 so only 25 when married in 1930.
Charles Frederick was born 1873 so massive age difference.- he was 57.
So it does all sound wrong.
kind regards
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Friday 23 April 10 18:27 BST (UK)
Not necessarily, I have know bigger ages gaps.

The Mott/Sharpington marriage does fit and we found 2 daughters of that marriage. 

 Personally I would  get that marriage cert, to see if he gives his father as George Henry Mott then you will know for sure if its right or wrong before you go any further.

Quote
Charles Frederick fell out with his in laws after Edith Rhoda died and I think he was in the Stratford area. He got a bit of a reputation I think as a ladies man.

Maybe that was why. :-\
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: dellfrog on Friday 23 April 10 19:56 BST (UK)
Hi
I agree entirely. The descendants of that line are getting back to me as Charles Fredericks daughter is alive and she will know the ages but I will get that marriage certificate.
many thanks
derek 
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: bri-bri on Monday 03 May 10 23:18 BST (UK)
Hi dellfrog
 george & mary mott were living at
 1881 census 6 tenby road w/ham
 1891 census 46 manby road w/ham
thier daughter sarah married my gt grandfather thorkell clements
 I to have some pitures but cant put names to some
   
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: patrish on Monday 03 May 10 23:34 BST (UK)
Quote
HI
In 1901 George Henry Mott lived at 64 Elm Rd West ham
     1891                                        at ?Manby Road Wanstead
      1881                                       at 7 Tenby Road
      I think they were all in the west ham area.
many thanks for your interest
derek
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: Dragonsky on Monday 27 May 13 14:58 BST (UK)
[
Quote
HI
In 1901 George Henry Mott lived at 64 Elm Rd West ham
     1891                                        at ?Manby Road Wanstead
      1881                                       at 7 Tenby Road
      I think they were all in the west ham area.
many thanks for your interest
derek
quote author=dellfrog link=topic=451610.msg3134972#msg3134972 date=1271795828]
Hi
I am trying to trace the birth and parents of George Henry Mott died 1909 born c 1839
married Mary Catherine ..........(c1837-1913) from Killarney in Ireland in 1859 at Islington.
Any information gladly received. They had at least five children William Henry 1866 , Mary  1861, Agnes Gertrude c1870, Sarah Elizabeth 1864, Charles
Frederick 1873-1944.
William Henry Mott was in London Fire brigade and died on duty. no details as yet.
I gather Charles Frederick Mott  ( my grandfather) was the first to take a woman to a boxing match.
I also need details of Charles Frederick Mott remarriage after his wife Edith Rhoda Lucas died in 1921. I believe he had a daughter from his second marriage.   This is my first posting so all advice and help welcomed. Anyone who wants my Mott details so far i will send as requested. I have some early Mott photos.
Thanks.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: Dragonsky on Monday 27 May 13 15:01 BST (UK)
William Henry Mott was my Great Grandad.  His eldest daughter Rosetta was my Grandmother.  William is on the Role of Honour at Lambeth, where his son Frank was a Divisional Officer.  I know how William was killed whilst on duty in 1914. 
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: wilkybob on Tuesday 22 November 16 19:40 GMT (UK)
NFS Fireman Henry Arthur Mott – NFS Southend on Sea
Died 7th October 1944 aged 42. of 16 Tennyson Avenue.
Died at 16 Tennyson Avenue.
Title: Re: Mott family in Essex
Post by: wilkybob on Tuesday 22 November 16 19:41 GMT (UK)
Fireman William H. Mott _ London Fire Brigade (LFB Roll of Honour)
Died 21st June 1914 at Vanbrugh Park, Blackheath.
He fell of a fire appliance at Greenwich.
I have cuttings but cannot post here for some reason.